tl;dr freighters that fly when their corp/alliance are wardecced die

Who would have imagined that?

There is an unbalanced risk vs. reward in Freighter kills. While paging though eve-kill.net, IGÇÖve noticed a large number of freighter kills that were accomplished with 2 battle cruisers or less.

The attacker risks 100-250 mil in ships compared to the 1.5 bill invested in the freighter. Killing a freighter should require a coordinate fleet commitment that closes the huge gap in risk.

Agreed considering you can fly them in state corps just as well.

Though I do support a rethinking on the alpha vulnerability of such an expensive ship.

To sum up, to Kill a freighter you should need a fleet of at least 4-5 battle ships so that the total isk commitment on the attackers part is close to 900 mil.

Before starting this post, I want to make this clear. IGÇÖm not advocating that Freighters should be ungankable.
Blowing up ships is part of the game.

There is an unbalanced risk vs. reward in Freighter kills. While paging though eve-kill.net, IGÇÖve noticed a large number of freighter kills that were accomplished with 2 battle cruisers or less. Such as;

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15821369
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15820849
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15812968
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15808004
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15806543

The attacker risks 100-250 mil in ships compared to the 1.5 bill invested in the freighter. Killing a freighter should require a coordinate fleet commitment that closes the huge gap in risk. Many of the freighter kills didnGÇÖt have cargo worth looting. People just want to pad their killboard with a large credit kill on an industrial. All bow down to the great PvPers.

To sum up, to Kill a freighter you should need a fleet of at least 4-5 battle ships so that the total isk commitment on the attackers part is close to 900 mil.

The freighter needs a buff. But it would also be great lols to see a freighter with 8 turret slots and mids for webs. A freighter with teeth.

Sadly, freighters will be buffed soon, simply because people are stupid...

Wasn't any alpha going on in those killmails.

You want to alpha a freighter then you need to be setup to do that specific job so I don't think it really needs a lot of rethinking.

Freighters are vulnerable on the undock and the jump-in.

Insta-undocks largely solve one problem, scouting ahead/watching map solves the other - gods know you have plenty of time to think about things on the warps

How many insta undocks lead directly to a stargate?
And a Freighter even with max skills takes still more then 30 seconds to align and warp off. You could have a buddy with a web nearby, but you're still so utterly slow that your best defense during a war is NOT TO UNDOCK THE BLOODY 1.5 BIL TURTLE!

How many frigs or destroyers would it take to 1 shot a freighter? That would be cool to see.

How many frigs or destroyers would it take to 1 shot a freighter? That would be cool to see.

How many insta undocks lead directly to a stargate?
And a Freighter even with max skills takes still more then 30 seconds to align and warp off. You could have a buddy with a web nearby, but you're still so utterly slow that your best defense during a war is NOT TO UNDOCK THE BLOODY 1.5 BIL TURTLE!

The attacker risks 100-250 mil in ships compared to the 1.5 bill invested in the freighter. Killing a freighter should require a coordinate fleet commitment that closes the huge gap in risk. Many of the freighter kills didnGÇÖt have cargo worth looting. People just want to pad their killboard with a large credit kill on an industrial. All bow down to the great PvPers.

It's easy to gank a freighter in 0.5 space.
Simply have 1 of your team mates get concorded as far away from your target. During that time bump the freighter & using the new Tier 3 battlecruisers, let off a few alphas. Scoop the cargo with an industrial. Rinse & repeat.

CCP should have concidered the impact of introducting Tier 3 battecruisers with higher alphas then tier 2/3 battleships for half the cost. At least give freighters mid & low slots so they can fit some passive hardeners. Your customers would greatly appreciate it.

Give them low slots and you will have to nerf their cargo bay.

Give them low slots and you will have to nerf their cargo bay.

That seems a reasonable compromise IMHO - let the pilot of the freighter strike a balance between the risk versus reward rather than essentially have a fitting imposed upon them.

The real problem with jump freighters is that they are WAY too safe.

In fact, their ability to jump OUT of hisec should be nerfed.

We are talking about the ONLY ship that can undock from a station in hisec and move several systems over without ever being lockable or in any danger as it can jump to a cyno before the invulnerability from undocking runs out....

This is in effect a 100% negation of a wardec making it possible for you to sustain a war effort without ever being in danger of losing your ship.

But they are also somehow wihout any combat....well... without any slots and they are third most expensive ships in the game. Yes they should have this advantage.

please dont be "me-wana-juicy-targets"

So because they can't defend themselves they should be invincible?

Before starting this post, I want to make this clear. IGÇÖm not advocating that Freighters should be ungankable.
Blowing up ships is part of the game.

The freighter needs a buff. But it would also be great lols to see a freighter with 8 turret slots and mids for webs. A freighter with teeth.

They are invicible now? i must missed some patch notes or something

The problem with any mmorpg, every time they introduce a new class, race or in this case a ship. Is that you have a certain balance issue to iron out over time. The players in eve found a way to use the Tier 3 BC to pop freighters easily. So in resoponse, it's resonable to buff freighters one way or another.

That sould just be a needless nerf to the entire class. A better silution would be to allow them both high EHP and high cargo at the same time. I.e. by leaving them as they are.

The problem with any mmorpg, every time they introduce a new class, race or in this case a ship. Is that you have a certain balance issue to iron out over time. The players in eve found a way to use the Tier 3 BC to pop freighters easily. So in resoponse, it's resonable to buff freighters one way or another. Perhaps a single lowslot to either carry more cargo (at the risk of being ganked even easier), damage control for survivability or speed/agility again, at a cost of hull hp.

The problem is with the undock invincibility timer vs. when the game allows you to jump.

You can jump out before you are lockable. Sorry, but that's just wrong.

(I'm not calling for an EHP nerf or being able to instapop a JF using an ibis - but being able to jump without being lockable is just wrong).

T3 BCs have made alpha'ing a JF possible. Killing freighters has always been possible.

The real problem with jump freighters is that they are WAY too safe.

In fact, their ability to jump OUT of hisec should be nerfed.

We are talking about the ONLY ship that can undock from a station in hisec and move several systems over without ever being lockable or in any danger as it can jump to a cyno before the invulnerability from undocking runs out....

This is in effect a 100% negation of a wardec making it possible for you to sustain a war effort without ever being in danger of losing your ship.

er?

and you coudnt alpha jf before Tier 3 bc's?

Unless you can afford to buy a new Jump Freighter for every journey out of your market hub you still have to fly it back somehow..

T3 BCs have made alpha'ing a JF possible. Killing freighters has always been possible.

Indeed.

I'm also curious as you say 3 Talos can easily gank a freighter before Concord recovers from being led away and gets into the action.

So because they can't defend themselves they should be invincible? Sorry not gonna cut it.

If you want to pickup supplies in hisec and you are wardecced, you can bring a fleet to protect your assets, not this "I am 100% safe in my JF because I can jump from hisec without ever being lockable".

Depends how much you wanted to spend on high-sec ganks.

Edit - perhaps a better word would be practical - as in T3 BCs have made alpha'ing a JF practical.

Megathron / Tempest + Insurance = Talos / Megathron - Insurance, I see no added practical here with Tier 3 Gankers.

I think you're replying to someone else there.

AFAIK deliberately "baiting" Concorde is an exploit, as are all other methods of deliberately delaying/enhancing Concorde response (ie you're dead).

Sorry for the confusion.

They warent ganked it is a efect of war dec, suspect flag or a public kill rights

This!

Yes, they can take 1 load out of high sec... but then how do they get back? Hmmmmm.....

Show me the profit in killing an empty JF

Show me the profit in killing an empty JF

It's easy to gank a freighter in 0.5 space.
Simply have 1 of your team mates get concorded as far out in the solar system as possible, from the target. This can easily be done by shooting a wreck belonging to a neutral alt. While concord are busy, bump the freighter (to interupt autopilot) & using the new Tier 3 battlecruisers (loaded with 8x large T2 weapons & a stack of dmg mods. A group of just 3 pilots can produce alpha strikes of 30,000+. Which would eat through most freighters hulls in 5 volleys. Scoop the cargo with an industrial. Rinse & repeat.

CCP should have concidered the impact of introducting Tier 3 battecruisers with higher alphas then tier 2/3 battleships for half the cost. At least give freighters mid & low slots so they can fit some passive hardeners. Your customers would greatly appreciate it.

the salvage ofc

Depends how much you wanted to spend on high-sec ganks.

Edit - perhaps a better word would be practical - as in T3 BCs have made alpha'ing a JF practical.

Show me the profit in killing an empty JF

You reduce your wartargets ability to move assets around. This is usually a solid advantage to have. Plus of course the ISK value of several b. And, if you're into that kind of stuff, the killboard embarrassment.

You're ********.... Back in time you alphaed one with an insured Tempest that costed only 90M, now you alpha it with an uninsured Tornado... Insured BS were a lot less expensive to use than the uninsured t3 BC of today.

AFAIK deliberately "baiting" Concorde is an exploit, as are all other methods of deliberately delaying/enhancing Concorde response (ie you're dead).

Sadly, freighters will be buffed soon, simply because people are stupid...

Some people are realy stupid or lazy, but these days most of destroyed freighters are freigters kiled just for lulz, with no vaulable cargo ganked in empire, people just (expolit) this fact that is easy to destroy them while sacrifice cheap ships with massive firepower.

And you have data to support that statement?

Some people are realy stupid or lazy, but these days most of destroyed freighters are freigters kiled just for lulz,

EvE kill net, average results.

It's not. Some related activities, such as spawning so many CONCORD ships that it lagged the node back in the day, or avoiding the consequences of spawning CONCORD e.g. by recycling alts, are not allowed. Messing with the spawn timers is quite ok.

There's a distinct difference between "unbalanced risk" and "incompetent pilot".

Hey leave me out of this!

Blah...

Well you started it!

Well you started it!

I checked the first two links and both are in an active war. In post instances the freighter pilots are idiots and deserved to die.

Or are you saying horrifyingly slow ships with no weapons or defensive systems should somehow be immune to being shot at? I will give you the benefit of the doubt and believe you simply did not do your homework and are naive enough to think a couple of battlecruisers can do enough damage to even the worst skilled freighter pilot before condord rolls in. It is either that or you are trolling.

I correct myself. OP is a 1 day alt and this is his first post. We have been trolled.

That sould just be a needless nerf to the entire class. A better silution would be to allow them both high EHP and high cargo at the same time. I.e. by leaving them as they are.

But the point is when players have zero options then player intelligence (or lack thereof) never enters the equation either. There is no tangible difference between a smart, cautious freighter captain and a moronic, greedy one when both can be killed by the exact same gank setup.

I will say it again: Freighters need module slots, just like every other ship. Then their captains can decide for themselves if they want more room or more tank. The smart ones will take tank. The cargo ones will probably keep getting ganked.

But the point is when players have zero options then player intelligence (or lack thereof) never enters the equation either. There is no tangible difference between a smart, cautious freighter captain and a moronic, greedy one when both can be killed by the exact same gank setup.

When freighter captains do have options - such as sacrificing tank for cargo & vise versa, only then will people have any right to talk about whether ganking freighters is a problem or not, because only then will the issue of ganking actually be factoring the freighters into the equation. Because right now the freighters themselves, and their captains, aren't even part of the gank equation: They're a fixed set of numbers than can be destroyed with a 100% certainty by a fixed set of gankers, no contest, no questions asked. Player ability or decisions don't enter the picture at any point - and that is a problem. That is nothing more than pure, undiluted bad game design, plain and simple.

Now if you give freighters module slots and they do nothing but fit cargo extenders and stuff themselves with billions of ISK worth of stuff and get ganked, well at that point you can legitimately tell them to STFU and grow a brain (or bring escorts). Meanwhile, the other freighter captains will be using those module slots to tank themselves up to the limit so as to make ganking a losing proposition, ISK wise, for any would-be attackers. Either way, you would get a fair game for freighter captains where Risk vs Reward is actually a thing... because right now it isn't.

This is a bit of a contrast compared to your posts last summer previous to the buff to mining barges. If I recall you were quite ardently defending the "tank your hulk if you don't want to lose it" standpoint.

I will say it again: Freighters need module slots, just like every other ship.

tl;dr freighters that fly when their corp/alliance are wardecced die

Who would have imagined that?

There is no tangible difference between a smart, cautious freighter captain and a moronic, greedy one when both can be killed by the exact same gank setup.

Player ability or decisions don't enter the picture at any point

Freighters should be the defenseless whales of the space sea, getting WTF-harpooned and turned into useful spermaceti and blubber. The problem right now is the maths is too easy given the relative ease to scan cargo, then do easy the gank math. that gank math needs some more complication and variety is all.

Sure they do.

Don't fly with enough loot in your freighter to make yourself worth Ganking. Ever seen a Freighter Suicide Gank Killmail where the Freighter was Full of Trit?

Don't fly with enough loot in your freighter to make yourself worth Ganking.

Show me the profit in killing an empty JF

I will say it again: Freighters need module slots, just like every other ship. Then their captains can decide for themselves if they want more room or more tank. The smart ones will take tank. The cargo ones will probably keep getting ganked.

Do you know much freighters cost?

The moment it undocks it is worth ganking, even it's completely empty.

You also seem to be erroneously convinced that being able to fit a token tank will save a freighter whose aggressor(s) is bent on killing it. If anything, it'll just prolong the inevitable. Besides, if you give freighters slots to fill, how much you wanna bet that the vast majority of carebears out there (including ones +1'ing the OP's ideas) will just toss cargo expanders in there.... ironically reducing their tank further.

Hi, I'm Tarsas Phage and have killed a few JFs in my time.

There is definitely profit in killing a empty JF. Like 30-40 intact armor plates or enhanced ward consoles kind of profit.

Regards;
/T

Do you know much freighters cost? The moment it undocks it is worth ganking, even it's completely empty.

The loot drops are a dice roll. If you gank a freighter with 50 stacks and only one of them is of any value, the odds of getting a favorable drop are against you.

So why you so against some help and having fitting options for Freighter pilots Andski?

The point is all the decision making is done by the ganker right now, the gankee doesn't have any decisions to make and cant feel clever (or then stupid) for fitting a hull tank, or a WCS for their trip through lowsec....etc The freighter EHP, concord and your DPS required are known so it is all rather simple.

So just gank the ones with 1 stack of goodies until the 50/50 dice roll returns a profitable outcome if profit is your aim. Its not like time is the enemy of suicide gankers and they cant just wait for the next one safely.

The point is all the decision making is done by the ganker right now, the gankee doesn't have any decisions to make and cant feel clever (or then stupid) for fitting a hull tank, or a WCS for their trip through lowsec....etc The freighter EHP, concord and your DPS required are known so it is all rather simple.

The ganker has the liberty and option to choose which target is right - the freighter pilot has no real in game mechanic to mess with that ganking EHP equation, and you can't always rely on a corpmate to be online when you need an escort etc...

Module slots and rig slots with specialised Frieghter rigs would help that and make the game more interesting (and not necessarily safer) for freighter pilots. People will always suicide gank - some will do it just for the lols (*cough* Goons)...

So why you so against some help and having fitting options for Freighter pilots Andski?

Sure, but suicide ganking one? Doubt it.

As has been pointed out many times, you won't like what you give up to get those slots.

So why you so against some help and having fitting options for Freighter pilots Andski?

Yeah, that's another thing. Hisec freighter ganking is incredibly rare these days since CCP decided that hisec hauling should be risk-free in Retribution.

These guys are demanding the final nail in that coffin.

and Why for Gad sake you want to kill things in High sec

and Why for Gad sake you want to kill things in High sec .. go show your incredible Skill in pvp In NULL sec there is Freighter and JF too in 0.0

Do you know much freighters cost? The moment it undocks it is worth ganking, even it's completely empty.

and Why for Gad sake you want to kill things in High sec .. go show your incredible Skill in pvp In NULL sec there is Freighter and JF too in 0.0 ...


oh wait ...

Because freighters are not supposed to fit modules, were never meant to fit modules and were never meant to have any "fitting options" at all whatsoever, that's why.

As far as help, they can help themselves. It's time for CCP to stop coddling bad players who put their life's worth in a single freighter and, without even double-wrapping it, fly it AFK to Jita.

Stop demanding that CCP isolates you from other players and, for once, learn concepts like "double-wrapping" and "not going AFK"



This is nonsense and you know it. The freighter pilot has the choice to double-wrap and what to fly in a given haul. The fact that you want to do everything in EVE without risk, without thought and with maximum convenience in mind is representative of the problems with the entitled hisec playerbase.

You're right. Freighters should be given 3 rig slots, 8 low slots, 8 mid slots and 8 high slots, 8 launcher and 8 turret hardpoints and infinite CPU, grid and calibration, just because they need ~improvement~ as if something is somehow wrong with them.

Your problem is you are completely blinkered in terms of what options it could add to the game. Stop the stubborn rage and get into a discussion rather than assuming you know it all and you are right. Cheers.

the guy from earlier got it right - if people want to say rig their freighter for maximum cargo - let them, but they should drop even easier than now. even if that maximum is only the current hold size I'd say thats good for the game.

Ever consider that something just doesn't need to have a plethora of options? Ever consider that there can certainly be inconsistency (in this case, a ship which lacks slots?)

A freighter is made for hauling. That's it, full stop. It is not meant to enter into combat. It is not meant to survive for an extended period if it does. It is the sole tier of ship in its class. It has no equals or alternatives. Thus, it has a highly specific role.

If a freighter pilot wants to be protected, he/she should bring (or even hire) an appropriate escort (this is a MMO after all)

If a freighter pilot is worried that he/she may become a target of a gank, the cargo should be broken up and multiple trips made, or multiple ships make the trip in parallel if such is available.

How come this is so hard to settle on?

You're right. Freighters should be given 3 rig slots, 8 low slots, 8 mid slots and 8 high slots, 8 launcher and 8 turret hardpoints and infinite CPU, grid and calibration, just because they need ~improvement~ as if something is somehow wrong with them.

GǪand then we're back to the question no-one who argues for slots can answer:

Why do freighters need a nerf?

Giving the ships options just for the sake of giving it options is utterly pointless, so what is it about freighters that warrants that kind of change? At the moment, freighters are hyper-specialised ships and are the absolute masters of their domain, and no amount of options can make them better. That leaves one direction to change them if any change is to be doneGǪ but why on earth would anyone want that?

Why should freighters be the boring exceptions to the tailoring rule?

What you call a nerf is not a nerf at all - it is just specialisation:

The good old slippery slope fallacy.

I rather think the point is that freighters are fully intended to be single function floating bulls eye's, whose only protections are it's pilots wisdom and it's own massive bulk. It does one thing and one thing only, slowly haul massive volumes of material in quantities that no other ship in the game can really come close to.

It isn't meant to be a challenging ship to fit, or able to mount a surprise or two. It is meant to be vulnerable and require intelligence and/or teamwork to use in a dangerous environment or when hauling high value cargo.

It's a weak link, and it's meant to be that way... something to protect that can be of high value.... not a super hauler able to AFK immense wealth without a care in the world.

Some things in game SHOULD be vulnerable and limited to excelling at only one specific job. Another example would be the lowly shuttle, or shall we consider adding slots to them as well?

Or freighters that can carry fitted ships...

How much tech is used in jump freighters?

This... could be quite awesome, especially with modules. But then they wouldn't really be freighters - they'd be a new type of carrier. One that carries actual player ships instead of drone fighters. That would be awesome beyond belief. Don't say "Orca" - I mean a real combat carrier, like the "Battle Riders" from SotS2.

What you call a nerf is not a nerf at all - it is just specialisation:

Assuming industry should be focussed in HighSec AND that HighSec should be "safe" then freighters should be buffed to protect the "casual player" (not sure how casual you are if you fly a freighter but regardless).

I agree with you 100%.

Nothing I've posted is contrary to the suggestion they should not be vulnerable space whales prime from the harpooning :)

I also agree some shuttle tailoring would be pimp :) I want one with go faster stripes!

Tailoring ships for different roles is what makes this spaceship game more fun. Sorry to answer a question with a question but I've been pretty clear : Why should freighters be the boring exceptions to the tailoring rule?

And for the record I'm not advocating Med or High slots unless they have some industrial purpose like a tractor beam. A freighter with guns and web scram would be a bit moronic I agree. :)

I'd like to see freighter specialised for carrying large volume of Ore - maybe even ones that only carry Ore.

Or freighters that can carry fitted ships...
Or freighters that can align quicker or warp quicker (remember that OP warp speed rig?) for those who like to travel in theirs...
Or freighters that can fit a DCU and more tank for the baiter who has everything...
Or freighters that can haul everything a corp owns all in one go if they want to then die in a horrible embarrasing mess shotuing at his useless corpmates on comms....
Or freighters people are less afraid to risk in lowsec / nullsec and wormholes for whatever reason ...

Well I just lost a freighter and the others maybe were lost the same way: kill rights.

Apparently, because I had killed someone earlier, they were able to make the kill rights they gained on me available to all of Eve.

Personally, I think this is lame. Maybe not the mechanic itself but the fact that I was totally unaware of this. I log in, check we're not at war with anyone, undock and hit autopilot and come back 30mins later to a pod in a station.

Just seems a bit cheap to lose a ship like this. No involvement from myself, no achievement by the gankers, just no point really.
I'm not even annoyed by the loss, it's like it's not mine really because I wasn't involved but it's left a nice red smear on the killboard. I just feel like, "Sigh, that's going to take a while to earn back. Can I really be bothered?"

I don't want to dumb down Eve but perhaps CCP should make it clear when you are a sitting duck. People say I should have received a notification and I think I remember one about kill rights, but nothing that said "now you're fair game to the whole of Eve". It would be good to make it clear.

the guy from earlier got it right - if people want to say rig their freighter for maximum cargo - let them, but they should drop even easier than now. even if that maximum is only the current hold size I'd say thats good for the game.

So for every lowslot, a freighter must lose 22% of its base cargo capacity; for every rig slot, it must lose 17% base cargo. End result: adding slots forces a nerf because you end up with a ship that carries less and is weaker than it is now, and there is no way to recreate their current capabilities.

Given the balancing he mentions, you must also divide hull HP by 2.5 (or a balanced amount) to account for a possible DCU II, do something similar for armor and shields, and also reduce scan res, signature, and a whole host of other stats to take into account other possible modules.

In other words, no sensible hauler wants this. Freighters haul **** very well. They don't need options.

This isn't true. The reason for the Cargo Nerf is to stop Freighters tipping over the 1 Million volume mark, at which point they can transport Capital Ships in their holds. As this would change a major gameplay dynamic that currently exists.
There is however, no reason that if a Freighter pilot chose to accept a much smaller cargo hold that they couldn't have a larger tank than they currently do. Since a 15% larger tank or even 100% larger tank would not create a change in a major gameplay dynamic, it would only change the cost required to gank one.
That said, I would expect some drop in the base freighter tank if they got decent fitting options, but it doesn't have to be on the same scale as the possible benefits.

Okay but going on, tier 3 battlecruisers are a bit too strong at the moment, but nerfing them, no matter, the freighter gankers will just move on to Brutixes, DPS instead of Alpha, and if you're going to start bitchin' that Brutixes are overpowered I'm going to have to pick up my jaw from the floor and then strangle you with your own guts.

Well I just lost a freighter and the others maybe were lost the same way: kill rights.

Apparently, because I had killed someone earlier, they were able to make the kill rights they gained on me available to all of Eve.

Personally, I think this is lame. Maybe not the mechanic itself but the fact that I was totally unaware of this. I log in, check we're not at war with anyone, undock and hit autopilot and come back 30mins later to a pod in a station.

Just seems a bit cheap to lose a ship like this. No involvement from myself, no achievement by the gankers, just no point really.
I'm not even annoyed by the loss, it's like it's not mine really because I wasn't involved but it's left a nice red smear on the killboard. I just feel like, "Sigh, that's going to take a while to earn back. Can I really be bothered?"

I don't want to dumb down Eve but perhaps CCP should make it clear when you are a sitting duck. People say I should have received a notification and I think I remember one about kill rights, but nothing that said "now you're fair game to the whole of Eve". It would be good to make it clear.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

they should just allow freighters to have mid and low slots so they can actually fit a tank. look at the freighters on space movies alot of them have tank and guns O.o

They should allow freighter pilot to use thier brain so they stop trying stunts like hauling 20 bill worth of cargo in a single trip.

Well I just lost a freighter and the others maybe were lost the same way: kill rights.

Apparently, because I had killed someone earlier, they were able to make the kill rights they gained on me available to all of Eve.

Personally, I think this is lame. Maybe not the mechanic itself but the fact that I was totally unaware of this. I log in, check we're not at war with anyone, undock and hit autopilot and come back 30mins later to a pod in a station.

Just seems a bit cheap to lose a ship like this. No involvement from myself, no achievement by the gankers, just no point really.
I'm not even annoyed by the loss, it's like it's not mine really because I wasn't involved but it's left a nice red smear on the killboard. I just feel like, "Sigh, that's going to take a while to earn back. Can I really be bothered?"

I don't want to dumb down Eve but perhaps CCP should make it clear when you are a sitting duck. People say I should have received a notification and I think I remember one about kill rights, but nothing that said "now you're fair game to the whole of Eve". It would be good to make it clear.

I've just returned to the game, what makes more sense, that I read every dev blog written over the past year or that CCP simply writes a line of text into the notification saying "you can now be legally shot at by anyone, in any space for the duration of these kill rights"? That is all I am saying. I have learnt the mechanics the hard way and obviously know the deal now, but to save other players the lesson, I think on this one that it's fair for CCP to make it clear.

Well I just lost a freighter and the others maybe were lost the same way: kill rights.

Apparently, because I had killed someone earlier, they were able to make the kill rights they gained on me available to all of Eve.

Personally, I think this is lame. Maybe not the mechanic itself but the fact that I was totally unaware of this. I log in, check we're not at war with anyone, undock and hit autopilot and come back 30mins later to a pod in a station.

Just seems a bit cheap to lose a ship like this. No involvement from myself, no achievement by the gankers, just no point really.
I'm not even annoyed by the loss, it's like it's not mine really because I wasn't involved but it's left a nice red smear on the killboard. I just feel like, "Sigh, that's going to take a while to earn back. Can I really be bothered?"

I don't want to dumb down Eve but perhaps CCP should make it clear when you are a sitting duck. People say I should have received a notification and I think I remember one about kill rights, but nothing that said "now you're fair game to the whole of Eve". It would be good to make it clear.

Nothing I've posted is contrary to the suggestion they should not be vulnerable space whales prime from the harpooning :)

I also agree some shuttle tailoring would be pimp :) I want one with go faster stripes!

The only point I am making is that having people (and I know I am not alone) wondering about in high-sec not realising they are targets is lame because it removes all the skill from the game.