Confirming that we are scrubs that can't hold a candle to any of the "big" wh corps, despite being the ones responsible for inventing the bhaalgrinder, regularily beating fleets with more capitals than we field, including fleets that try and counter us with blap dreads yet failing in that.

Confirming that we are scrubs that can't hold a candle to any of the "big" wh corps, despite being the ones responsible for inventing the bhaalgrinder, regularily beating fleets with more capitals than we field, including fleets that try and counter us with blap dreads yet failing in that.

My issue with dread blapping is that there isn't a counter to it other than "bring more stuff". I am fine with dreads killing caps and battleships, but if I show up in small sig cruisers, dreads shouldn't be dominant.

FYI, this isn't something that I just came up with out of thin air, this has been a frequent complaint I have heard from many different corps and alliances. What makes EVE PVP great is that you should always be able to counter a specific fleet setup without just bringing 2x the numbers. That isn't the case with dreads + webs/painters.

Basically, take this situation: AHARM collapse our static, we connect to EXHALE. both sides have similar numbers on. Great, fight time.

You've been around enough to know that all fights are not meant to be. There is a mass limit on all wh. You can't fit enough of anything through a single wh to engage an entrenched home system that has a bunch of capital ships and support. That only makes sense. You shouldn't be able to do what you want to do. You're looking to dial up a random 'good fight worthy' wh, jump in and have a LARGE/EPIC good fight that is fair equal and balanced.

You can make all dreads disappear after their first volley and there still isn't enough mass on a 3 bil wh to go into the aharm home system and get a fair fight if the system comes to life to defend itself. It's not dread blapping that is frustrating you - it's the wh mass restriction combined with some systems that are well defended. Don't blame dreads for a well defended home system and sensible piloting. It's the mass limits.

We've all chosen to live in the part of eve that has those mass restrictions. They are a restriction. Believe me I know. I moved from a c5-c5 (3 bil mass) to a c5-c3 (1 bil mass). There are days that it just kills me. That one billion bottleneck has prevented more than one good fight 3 wh down a chain. I chose to move to that wh mostly to fly with folks I know in real life. Does it put a damper on my pvp desires? Yeah all the freakin' time. But it's a choice I made.

Your 3 billion wh connecting you to exhale (your example) will never allow you to go in and kick their patoot. They are big enough and good enough that 3 billion isn't enough to allow that to happen. You wanna go in and kick THAT patoot - you plan, sneak in some dreads, carriers, scanners and blah blah blah - we all know the deal. Not all wh home systems are day trips.

If you and yours really crave those big epic dread smashing fights - you have to go to low/null. It won't happen in wh space via a single random wh encounter. Sorry man, you can't beat math. I will caution everyone that messing w/ the mass mechanic of wh space could have some really crappy far reaching affects. Please resist the urge to come up with ways, modules, ideas.... and so on to subvert the mass mechanic in wh.

Nope that's pretty much all of them... Confirming they are all of WH space now, and once they don't like something your personal CSM rep gets to ask CCP for a stealth nerf without speaking to all other WH space folk.

The trick is to only ask for the nerf after you've gotten tired of abusing that particular mechanic. I wonder if the immunity to EWAR is the major factor in preventing effective counter play here?

My issue with dread blapping is that there isn't a counter to it other than "bring more stuff". I am fine with dreads killing caps and battleships, but if I show up in small sig cruisers, dreads shouldn't be dominant.

FYI, this isn't something that I just came up with out of thin air, this has been a frequent complaint I have heard from many different corps and alliances. What makes EVE PVP great is that you should always be able to counter a specific fleet setup without just bringing 2x the numbers. That isn't the case with dreads + webs/painters.

Maybe if you stopped "skimming" and tried reading you wouldn't have had to ask this...

VoC, K162, Exhale, to name a few. Of course there's disagreement even within these alliancesGÇöwhich is why we're having this discussion in the first place. There are people spread out among a lot of alliances who agree with Two Step that dreads (the Moros in particular) are slightly imbalanced in w-space pvp.

But I'm done posting here. I respect most of the people posting in here, even if I disagree with them. Whatever the case, I'm confident that when Fozzie gets to Dreads he'll know what to do.

This is old news and used in K-space all the time. You will find that Loki links help a ton.

Confirming you missed the point entirely.

I've seen a large number of quality arguments against nerfing dread blapping in this thread. None of the arguments in support of the change are at all persuasive. Please remember that people have a lot invested in their home wormholes. If they're willing to pay for dreads and risk them, they deserve to benefit from it. Numerous effective counters are proposed here. It's also worth noting that dreads are regarded as the least entertaing and useful class of ships in the game. Members of my alliance doesn't even bother purchasing their own - the alliance loans them to us so we don't have to invest in a boring ship. One of the few worthwhile things about dreads is their ability to blap. Please retain this ability.

WH dreads =/= nullsec dreads

Nope that's pretty much all of them... Confirming they are all of WH space now, and once they don't like something your personal CSM rep gets to ask CCP for a stealth nerf without speaking to all other WH space folk.

VoC, K162, Exhale, to name a few. Of course there's disagreement even within these alliancesGÇöwhich is why we're having this discussion in the first place.

Hi all!

When I was reading today the CSM minutes I came by this part:

"Nearing the end of the meeting, Two step brought up the issue of Dread blapping in wormhole space.
This sparked an informal discussion to determine if the issue was the Dreads themselves, or just a
byproduct of wormhole combat. No meaningful solution was devised in a short time, but Fozzie added
that he would keep an eye on Dread blapping in wormhole space in particular."

So my question would be: What is Dread blapping precisely and why is it something that must be looked at?

Thank for the answers in advance.