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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 16 post(s) |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
518
   |
Posted - 2013.02.18 22:00:00 -
[331] - Quote
Xearal wrote:Soo.. also any chances of having a Cov ops Logisitcs ship introduced? it would make BLops operations a lot scarier into enemy territory.
T3 with cloaky and logistic subsystems.
Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe
YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2751
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 22:54:00 -
[332] - Quote
Xearal wrote:Soo.. also any chances of having a Cov ops Logisitcs ship introduced? it would make BLops operations a lot scarier into enemy territory.
Already introduced.
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Etana
For your BLOPsing pleasure.
This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Rammix
FreeWorkers
HeII Gate Alliance
35
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 11:27:00 -
[333] - Quote
Sorry if I chose the wrong topic.
Quote:Covert Cynosural Field Generators may now be fitted on any Strategic Cruiser that has the Covert Reconfiguration subsystem fitted, as well as on Blockade Runners.
Crane (caldari blocade runner) has only 1 high slot and this patch is useless for it. Please, add +1 high slot to crane.
OpenSUSE 12.2, wine 1.5 |
Tshaowdyne Dvorak
The Dark Space Initiative
5
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 21:29:00 -
[334] - Quote
xVx dreadnaught wrote:Want to make the Black Ops more worthwhile flying?
Simple, give them their racial EWAR bonus.
Right now the only ship benefiting from it's racial EWAR bonus is the Widow, and to good effect, because why would I jump a billion isk ship into a fight, when I could throw a stealth bomber into the battle instead, with almost double the DPS at a fraction of the cost?
Making the Sin a long range point with damps, the Redeemer a close range neut boat like the Pilgrim and the Panther a web bonus like the rapier would make them more worth fielding.
- Dread
I'm afraid that this is a terrible idea simply because it pushes the underused recons out of an already precarious role. This doesn't happen with the Widow because you really can't have too many jams on the field, so a squad of Falcons are useful and their use scales with the number of additional ships brought. This isn't so with webs and damps (there's only so slow you can make a ship go and so far you need to sensor damp and the bombers have got damps anyway), and points are likely to be covered by a good chunk of the fleet as is (black ops drops usually engage smaller, unsuspecting fleets). Besides, if you're waiting for a Sin to point someone then you've already lost your prey. Yep, people can bring links to boost sensors, but why do that when you can fit a point and just do the job yourself. The cyno's not going to open far enough from the enemy to keep the Black Ops safely out of range anyway (cynos are typically opened up at shotgun range to make sure nobody escapes and everyone dies quickly).
It also still doesn't address the issue you'd like it to address: why bring a billion ISK ship onto the field in any capacity other than to cloak up and hide somewhere so it can bridge the fleet back when the engagement is done? It's a battleship hull, so all the usual prey can become predators (tracking is pretty good versus large, slow battleships) and tackling something like a carrier might be a good choice if the carrier doesn't have fighters (really painful against BS hulls for the same reason that everyone else has an easy time preying on them). And a web or two from a hostile support (a throwaway Rifter or two warping in to help their dread isn't out of the question at all) will just help that dread turn your Black Ops into a pretty explosion before the dread dies.
They could just be made a lot cheaper to build. People would be more willing to risk them if they cost about the same as a nicely fit Tech 3 cruiser. They could be given a different role which would justify their cost. As it stands, I believe there will be two different Black Ops ships for each race when the changes are implemented. I can only assume one type will bring utility to the field in addition to the bridge capability and the other will be brought in a combat capacity without the bridge.
How about these ideas?
- Interdiction could be given to one (Hyperion hull).
- Remote armor rep bonuses to another (Abaddon hull)
- Remote shield rep bonuses to a third (Maelstrom hull)
- Widow keeps jam bonuses.
Logistics battleships seem pretty cool and useful and wouldn't edge out any currently used logi cruisers due to the price tag. Ditto for interdiction (not to mention that it's easier to run from a battleship and the cruiser hulls with giant tanks that already fulfill the interdiction role would actually be harder to kill).
Then couple these utility roles with one nasty downside: give the Black Ops ships something like a mini siege/triage module. They get to sit on the field like a dummy hoping the enemy doesn't react in time to kill their expensive battleship before it drops out of "Clandestine Support" mode, or whatever the module would be called. The mode would give the logi range and sensor boost bonuses to the logistics Black Ops ships (permitting quick locking) and permit the interdiction module to be enabled for the other. They become immune to all the same e-war that dreads and carriers do (but not neuts), but can't go anywhere or activate their bridge/jump drive. They could even be given a small ship bay capable of carrying extra bombers and a single cruiser or so (to fulfill the role of extending engagements and permit people to re-ship if a few bombers are lost), just like carriers.
Then just make the combat black ops like mini dreads with similar abilities conferred but the downside of sitting there like idiots while in siege. |
Dhuras
The Classy Gentlemans Corporation
Moist.
18
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 04:45:00 -
[335] - Quote
giving them these random bonuses really undercuts their theme. a better idea is to still give them the ewar bonuses, just less so than the recons. Think of it as the sacrifice for getting better tank than a recon. (though one could consider the great cost of a black ops already sufficient sacrifice)
How does this sound:
All black ops get a 99% bonus to T2 covert ops cloak CPU fitting but no bonus to sensor recalib time.
Widow:
same ewar bonuses as now
Redeemer:
20% bonus to energy neutralizer and nosferatu range per level..
Sin:
5% bonus to sensor damp effectivenesss
10% bonus to point range
Panther:
30% bonus to web range
7.5% bonus to target painter effectiveness
|
Tshaowdyne Dvorak
The Dark Space Initiative
5
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 05:06:00 -
[336] - Quote
Dhuras wrote:giving them these random bonuses really undercuts their theme.
Says who? There are going to be two different sorts of Black Ops ships eventually, or that's the plan. One set of them devoted to support roles and another to damage sounds sensible.
And, just as I pointed out to the previous fellow, just adding e-war bonuses is not going to make anyone want to field a billion ISK ship that's squishier than a Tech 3 and costs more. Adding damps is useless because the bombers all have damps. Point... on a battleship? If you're waiting for a battleship to lock and point anyone then he's already gone from the field. Webs are obviously really useful, but an armor Loki is extremely hard to kill as it is and has bonused webs. Besides, what's the point in range bonuses? If the Black Ops is coming on field, he's coming in with the rest of his guys and that's point blank range. If they have time to run from that range with rapier/Loki webs on 'em, someone screwed up in deciding to engage. The Black Ops ought to do what it does now and only show up to bridge everyone back when the fight's done, add a little damage on the field if the enemy is vastly outnumbered and there's zero risk in losing such an expensive ship.
Ewar bonuses on battleship hulls at that price are a poor draw to field it in any actual combat. They might as well just keep playing bridge monkey like they do now and save their isk. |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
527
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 05:24:00 -
[337] - Quote
Dhuras wrote:giving them these random bonuses really undercuts their theme. a better idea is to still give them the ewar bonuses, just less so than the recons. Think of it as the sacrifice for getting better tank than a recon. (though one could consider the great cost of a black ops already sufficient sacrifice)
How does this sound:
All black ops get a 99% bonus to T2 covert ops cloak CPU fitting but no bonus to sensor recalib time.
Widow:
same ewar bonuses as now
Redeemer:
20% bonus to energy neutralizer and nosferatu range per level..
Sin:
5% bonus to sensor damp effectivenesss
10% bonus to point range
Panther:
30% bonus to web range
7.5% bonus to target painter effectiveness
Why do want to make recons obsolete?
Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting |
Dhuras
The Classy Gentlemans Corporation
Moist.
18
|
Posted - 2013.02.21 07:50:00 -
[338] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Dhuras wrote:giving them these random bonuses really undercuts their theme. a better idea is to still give them the ewar bonuses, just less so than the recons. Think of it as the sacrifice for getting better tank than a recon. (though one could consider the great cost of a black ops already sufficient sacrifice)
How does this sound:
All black ops get a 99% bonus to T2 covert ops cloak CPU fitting but no bonus to sensor recalib time.
Widow:
same ewar bonuses as now
Redeemer:
20% bonus to energy neutralizer and nosferatu range per level..
Sin:
5% bonus to sensor damp effectivenesss
10% bonus to point range
Panther:
30% bonus to web range
7.5% bonus to target painter effectiveness
Why do want to make recons obsolete?
Not trying to make recons obsolete. There are many ships out there with overlapping bonuses yet they all still get used, (see ships with web bonuses) for various reasons of differences in mobility, tank, and cost. BLOPS are in no way going to take out recons because for one, They are incredibly expensive when compared to recons, which would have stronger ewar bonuses. The benefit of the extra cost for BLOPs would be for the bridging and tanking capability, They still would not be more viable all the time. |
Eli Green
The Arrow Project
511
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 16:41:00 -
[339] - Quote
Dhuras wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:Dhuras wrote:giving them these random bonuses really undercuts their theme. a better idea is to still give them the ewar bonuses, just less so than the recons. Think of it as the sacrifice for getting better tank than a recon. (though one could consider the great cost of a black ops already sufficient sacrifice)
How does this sound:
All black ops get a 99% bonus to T2 covert ops cloak CPU fitting but no bonus to sensor recalib time.
Widow:
same ewar bonuses as now
Redeemer:
20% bonus to energy neutralizer and nosferatu range per level..
Sin:
5% bonus to sensor damp effectivenesss
10% bonus to point range
Panther:
30% bonus to web range
7.5% bonus to target painter effectiveness
Why do want to make recons obsolete? Not trying to make recons obsolete. There are many ships out there with overlapping bonuses yet they all still get used, (see ships with web bonuses) for various reasons of differences in mobility, tank, and cost. BLOPS are in no way going to take out recons because for one, They are incredibly expensive when compared to recons, which would have stronger ewar bonuses. The benefit of the extra cost for BLOPs would be for the bridging and tanking capability, They still would not be more viable all the time.
On an unrelated note you forgot that Amarr have Neuts and Tracking Disruptors for their racial Ewar
wumbo |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
542
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 20:52:00 -
[340] - Quote
We already have a nice lineup of covert ships with the exception of one role;
Scout (covert ops frigates)
EWar (Recon Cruisers)
Brawlers (Stealth Bombers)
Generalist (T3s)
But we are missing Attack role covert ops ships a nice opportunity for black ops to fill.
Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting |
Liafcipe9000
Smeghead Empire
232
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 11:45:00 -
[341] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:We already have a nice lineup of covert ships with the exception of one role;
Scout (covert ops frigates)
EWar (Recon Cruisers)
Brawlers (Stealth Bombers)
Generalist (T3s)
But we are missing Attack role covert ops ships a nice opportunity for black ops to fill.
a sufficient number of Falcons would render that hole obsolete since the enemy will die anyway. |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
561
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 17:29:00 -
[342] - Quote
A sufficient number of rookie ships will take down a Titan, that does not mean that we don't need any other kind o ships.
Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe
YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2901
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 17:48:00 -
[343] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:A sufficient number of rookie ships will take down a Titan
How you going to keep it tackled?
Anyway, I'd like to see something like a Covert Hic. Maybe a destroyer able to mount an infinipoint (no bubble), so that BLOPs gangs can tackle Supers. #DeathtoAllSupers
Not tanky enough to be useful in regular fleets (b/c destroyer hull), but enough that a Super's fighters would have some trouble killing it before the rest of the gang killed the fighters.
This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
561
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 18:51:00 -
[344] - Quote
Point being, "blob tactics" could be used to counter any valid argument.
Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting |
Savira Terrant
Valhollr
25
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 01:57:00 -
[345] - Quote
Just my two cents on a possible Blockade Runner rebalance... For the life of me, I cannot come up with a situation any additional med-slot other than the one holding the MWD, can actually save me in any situation I am being engaged.
Thus: If you add one high-slots take away a med-slot. And while you are at it, remove all med-slots but one to add slots as low-slots. Voila, Blockaderunner balance fini. Oh, and give all BR 166 pgu at Engineering 5. :P
Edit: Now that I think about it: 125 tf cpu is also enough... 
. |
Chanina
ASGARD HEAVY INDUSTRIES
Cha Ching PLC
23
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Posted - 2013.03.11 17:06:00 -
[346] - Quote
Just to mention it again: with the increased bridge range and the ability to cyno in jammed systems the power projection has become even worth. Dozens of systems in range to anywhere and a single player can harass hole systems as you can't possible scout such many systems and protecting against unknown numbers doesn't work.
So please work on cloaking mechanics to get the power back to the active player not the one leaving his character logged in just because he can. |
Evanga
Way So Mad
Space Immigration
52
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 22:30:00 -
[347] - Quote
Chanina wrote:Just to mention it again: with the increased bridge range and the ability to cyno in jammed systems the power projection has become even worth. Dozens of systems in range to anywhere and a single player can harass hole systems as you can't possible scout such many systems and protecting against unknown numbers doesn't work.
So please work on cloaking mechanics to get the power back to the active player not the one leaving his character logged in just because he can.
Oh .. Plz explain, what power?
|
Velonad Tyldamere
Blood Covenant
Pandemic Legion
12
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Posted - 2013.03.14 17:31:00 -
[348] - Quote
It's pretty good fun reading all these posts about BLOPS being underpowered, yet you could all look on the PL killboard on how retardedly good they are right now. |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
669
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 11:45:00 -
[349] - Quote
Velonad Tyldamere wrote:It's pretty good fun reading all these posts about BLOPS being underpowered, yet you could all look on the PL killboard on how retardedly good they are right now.
I did and saw that most of you BLOPs fleet was Redeemers and Panthers, I could see about 22 ships of that 16~18 were them.
Edit: IT was a nice fleet though, and I do not mean to discredit those two ships in any way, but it blops were given better combat bonuses I have a feeling that your fleet would have been a little more diverse.
Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3807
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 19:54:00 -
[350] - Quote
As was mentioned in the CCP Rise thread I think a case could be made for making BLOPs BS have a stronger EW role. In fact I believe they should be the only BS variant that has a strong racial EW role, which means the Scorpion should be repurposed into an Attack class BS.
If this were done they would be just as handy as they currently are in their covert hot drop role (especially if their tracking ability and tanking ability is augmented a bit), and they might possibly begin to find a role in traditional Null Sec fleet engagements as well... which would be most welcome to the class.
To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors.
If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
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