If only we were letting you reduce the mass penalty of all your plates by 25%, and for active tankers remove the speed penalty on the rigs? That would be great maybe we should do that.

If it is super overpowered, how do you explain resist bonuses?

-Liang

Ed: I don't mean to get in your junk over this. Just that resist bonuses affect EHP as well, which would mean that they'd still be preferred over 7.5% rep bonuses. 1/.25 = 1.33333, 1*(.075*5) = 1.375. The difference in "effective received rep" isn't very great.

I updated the OP with something that is connected but that I forgot to put in at first since it isn't a main part of the changes.

At the same time as these changes we'd be reducing the Incrusus rep bonus to 7.5% to keep things sane.

It's far easier to get around a slight PG reduction than the speed reduction.

There's a whole section entitled Plates you should probably read it.

You completely free to not use the AAR on ships with small cargoholds, I give you permission.

At the same time as these changes we'd be reducing the Incrusus rep bonus to 7.5% to keep things sane.

this.

i dont mean to be harsh fozzie but i have been waiting for this to be looked at for a long long long time and am rather disappointed that this has not been addressed...

with the most respect possible

- fuk

I updated the OP with something that is connected but that I forgot to put in at first since it isn't a main part of the changes.

At the same time as these changes we'd be reducing the Incrusus rep bonus to 7.5% to keep things sane.

Ha! Now tell me, wouldn't it have made MUCH more sense to fix armor tanking FIRST, and THEN go and re-balance ships? Instead of rebalancing ships first, then fixing the mechanics that were broken but ships are bonused for, and then having to re-re-balance ships once again?

Aside from rep bonus, you'll probably have to take a look at things like cargo hold (for the charges for the new AAR), the PG (for the new rigs), the repair bonus (like with Incursus), etc. How awesome would it have been if you could re-balance ships in a single pass? Instead of tweaking the same ship several times in a 3 month period?

And think about the future. Remember all those shiney new drone boats? Tristan, Algos, Dragoon, etc? Remember those? What will happen to them when drones will get their review and re-balance? Those will have to be revisited once again to make sure they're not too weak or too strong. Like the Myrmidon under review now, what do you want to bet that someone will have to go back to that one after drones are rebalanced and rebalance it again?

So, doesn't it make sense to fix the core mechanics before re-balancing ships? Instead of doing multiple ship re-re-balances? Or am I just nuts?

Good changes though, at least on paper. I just wish they were done in order instead of donkey-backwards.

To be fair, there's been so much expectation (from and by the community) set around any armor tanking boost that there's no way CCP could ever have "gotten it right" without making armor tanking utterly overpowered. I'm pretty ok with not getting RR from active rep bonuses, but the assertion that it'd be "super overpowered" just rings slightly false to me.

/shrug

-Liang

My Brutix just got a boner.

I may have goofed with the maths, but the Nanobot Overcharger rigs look distinctly underwhelming. On an unrigged ship, heating a rep increases your HP/second by 29% (1.1x rep amount/0.85x cycle time). With an NO, that goes up to a 40% increase on heating (1.13x rep amount/0.805x cycle time). Unless I've done the maths wrong, that means there's never a situation where the NO is better than an auxiliary nano pump outside of potential edge cases where you're running into massive stacking penalties (triple nano pumps? does anyone do this?):

Unheated rep, no rigs: 1x rep amount
Unheated rep + heat rig: 1x rep amount
Unheated + auxiliary nano pump I: 1.15x rep amount

Heated rep, no rigs: 1.29x rep amount
Heated rep + heat rig: 1.4x rep amount
Heated rep + auxiliary nano pump I: 1.48x rep amount (1.29x rep amount for heat times 1.15x rep amount for the nano pump)

Your math is correct, my math was wrong. I had been approximating the rigs in our internal test server using stat changed modules and had gotten the math wrong on the bonus. To hit the benefits I was aiming for, the rig will double the heat bonus at tech one.

That's what I get for posting before all the authoring challenges are worked out, but thanks for catching it now instead of someone having to catch it later.

I've updated the OP

Is my title pretentious enough?
...

Why not just buff all armor reps?

One of the aspects I really like about the ASB is that it allowed CCP to decouple burst tanking from sustained tanking in a new and interesting way. Burst tanking is key for most PVP active tank scenarios while sustained tanking is more common for PVE. We wanted to carry that aspect over to armor tanking, allowing us to create new burst tanking gameplay without making current sustained tanking gameplay overpowered.

and what about readjusting the active arour tanking ships pg? so that they cane still be reasonably fit with the armor rigs?
also will the rigg penalty changes be effecting the other our rigs or just the active tanking ones?

and then how does this balance with the asb which atm can fit more than one, cant be nueted off like the aar, and has more base rep tan the aar?

This effect is stacking penalized and gives no bonus when the reps are not overheated. Same calibration and build costs as a Aux Nano or Nanobot Acc rig.

Stacked with what, only with itself or the other two rigs as well?

Do rigs affect AAR cycle time?

Quick check looks like 10-slot AAR+MAR II tank is finally better than 4-slot dual XLASB on an all V's Myrmidon.