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Hide your ISK, Team Security is out of control.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 31 post(s)
Jonah Gravenstein Gordian Knot Holdings 5606	Posted - 2013.02.12 19:13:00 - [421] - Quote Finde learth wrote: Can you explain why remove all ISK because of a 14 days ban? I'll keep it simple. The ISK was acquired by botting (which is against the EULA), it was then unsuccessfully laundered and confiscated. It's the same principle as drug money, it's acquired illegally, and confiscated when the authorities find it. If it looks like a bot, smells like a bot and acts like a bot, 99% of the time it is a bot. I am Ohm of Borg, Resistance is Voltage/Current.
Mai Khumm Carbon Circle Tactical Narcotics Team 448	Posted - 2013.02.12 19:16:00 - [422] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Altrue wrote: questions 1- CCP will not comment 2- CCP will not comment 3- Jovians Fixed that for you... insert witty saying here twitter - @AzamiNevinyrall
Sandrestal University of Caille Gallente Federation 15	Posted - 2013.02.12 19:17:00 - [423] - Quote Didn't someone at CCP once say, "Greed is Good"? I just find it humurous that the owners of the game can set a standard and then ban people for doing exaclty as CCP exclaimed. Gets so confusing at times.
Finde learth Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 30	Posted - 2013.02.12 19:17:00 - [424] - Quote Dan Leviathan wrote: Finde learth wrote: CCP Sreegs wrote: There are a number of things wrong with the assertions being made in other forums, which is a topic I'm sure the author of these posts is familiar with because we discussed them prior to his rather selective reporting of the incident. Here's the facts as we need be concerned from an eve perspective: 1) John was botting. That is not even close to in dispute. 2) We committed an error in not removing the isk before it got to EVE-U. However we did rectify this problem and our logs show that it was discussed and approved prior to either them receiving the isk or petitioning. We apologized to EVE-U however the petition was escalated as high as it could be and the decision remained. We cannot typically share this information with them as it's really none of their business. Can you explain why remove all ISK because of a 14 days ban? Can you explain how you are possibly this ignorant? You think CCP can remove all your assets and ISK for a 14 days ban after 21 days?
Pak Narhoo Splinter Foundation 901	Posted - 2013.02.12 19:18:00 - [425] - Quote What a drama. A botter, a clear cheater, was caught and some CSM member thinks he has a right to get answers where he got all that he was entitled to. Just keep on defending cheaters, will look good on your resume. Nice boomerang btw. Hi, I'm CCP Arrow, I screwed up the.. ummm...
Din Chao 175	Posted - 2013.02.12 19:19:00 - [426] - Quote Finde learth wrote: You think CCP can remove all your assets and ISK for a 14 days ban after 21 days? ISK confirmed to have been obtained through botting, that was tied up in goods that were then liquidated prior to self-immolation? Yes.
Nicolo da'Vicenza Air The Unthinkables 3027	Posted - 2013.02.12 19:19:00 - [427] - Quote supporting wardec evasion and supporting botting go hand in hand, this development isn't surprising
Finde learth Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 30	Posted - 2013.02.12 19:21:00 - [428] - Quote Din Chao wrote: Finde learth wrote: You think CCP can remove all your assets and ISK for a 14 days ban after 21 days? ISK confirmed to have been obtained through botting, that was tied up in goods that were then liquidated prior to self-immolation? Yes. CCP never said it. CCP just confirmed "John" used bot.
Jonah Gravenstein Gordian Knot Holdings 5607	Posted - 2013.02.12 19:22:00 - [429] - Quote Finde learth wrote: Dan Leviathan wrote: Finde learth wrote: CCP Sreegs wrote: There are a number of things wrong with the assertions being made in other forums, which is a topic I'm sure the author of these posts is familiar with because we discussed them prior to his rather selective reporting of the incident. Here's the facts as we need be concerned from an eve perspective: 1) John was botting. That is not even close to in dispute. 2) We committed an error in not removing the isk before it got to EVE-U. However we did rectify this problem and our logs show that it was discussed and approved prior to either them receiving the isk or petitioning. We apologized to EVE-U however the petition was escalated as high as it could be and the decision remained. We cannot typically share this information with them as it's really none of their business. Can you explain why remove all ISK because of a 14 days ban? Can you explain how you are possibly this ignorant? You think CCP can remove all your assets and ISK for a 14 days ban after 21 days? If assets and ISK are acquired in a way that breaks the EULA, then yes, the assets aren't yours they are merely on loan from CCP EULA wrote: Your Account, and all attributes of your Account, including all corporations, actions, groups, titles and characters, and all objects, currency and items acquired, developed or delivered by or to characters as a result of play through your Accounts, are the sole and exclusive property of CCP If it looks like a bot, smells like a bot and acts like a bot, 99% of the time it is a bot. I am Ohm of Borg, Resistance is Voltage/Current.
Pak Narhoo Splinter Foundation 901	Posted - 2013.02.12 19:23:00 - [430] - Quote Finde learth wrote: Dan Leviathan wrote: Finde learth wrote: CCP Sreegs wrote: There are a number of things wrong with the assertions being made in other forums, which is a topic I'm sure the author of these posts is familiar with because we discussed them prior to his rather selective reporting of the incident. Here's the facts as we need be concerned from an eve perspective: 1) John was botting. That is not even close to in dispute. 2) We committed an error in not removing the isk before it got to EVE-U. However we did rectify this problem and our logs show that it was discussed and approved prior to either them receiving the isk or petitioning. We apologized to EVE-U however the petition was escalated as high as it could be and the decision remained. We cannot typically share this information with them as it's really none of their business. Can you explain why remove all ISK because of a 14 days ban? Can you explain how you are possibly this ignorant? You think CCP can remove all your assets and ISK for a 14 days ban after 21 days? Yes, they can. They even can disallow you access to their game for NO reason at all. Start reading the EULA. Their game. Their server. Their rules. You don't like them? Go somewhere else. It's not rocket science. It's all in the EULA, you agreed with. Multiple times. Hi, I'm CCP Arrow, I screwed up the.. ummm...

Finde learth Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 30	Posted - 2013.02.12 19:26:00 - [431] - Quote Pak Narhoo wrote: Finde learth wrote: Dan Leviathan wrote: Finde learth wrote: CCP Sreegs wrote: There are a number of things wrong with the assertions being made in other forums, which is a topic I'm sure the author of these posts is familiar with because we discussed them prior to his rather selective reporting of the incident. Here's the facts as we need be concerned from an eve perspective: 1) John was botting. That is not even close to in dispute. 2) We committed an error in not removing the isk before it got to EVE-U. However we did rectify this problem and our logs show that it was discussed and approved prior to either them receiving the isk or petitioning. We apologized to EVE-U however the petition was escalated as high as it could be and the decision remained. We cannot typically share this information with them as it's really none of their business. Can you explain why remove all ISK because of a 14 days ban? Can you explain how you are possibly this ignorant? You think CCP can remove all your assets and ISK for a 14 days ban after 21 days? Yes, they can. They even can disallow you access to their game for NO reason at all. Start reading the EULA. Their game. Their server. Their rules. You don't like them? Go somewhere else. It's not rocket science. It's all in the EULA, you agreed with. Multiple times. So the topic is right
Abus Finkel Caldari Capital Construction Inc. 6	Posted - 2013.02.12 19:26:00 - [432] - Quote Liang Nuren wrote: I think it goes a bit deeper than that. The tone of the OP on the E-Uni forums was obviously geared towards making this a personal attack from CCP on E-Uni. IMO he implicitly endorsed botting and attempted to hold (hundreds of?) noob accounts over CCP's head to force them to give him the ISK. It's made worse by the fact that he knew all of this beforehand. I'm not sure from where you are getting that he supports botting or even wants the isk back. The heart of the matter is (in my opinion at least) this: Kelduum Revaan wrote: The petition was answered by the same CCP member, with another canned response, stating that there is no escalation for security matters and that they operate separately from customer support, the matter had been brought to the attention of their Director of Security, and to respond if I have any questions or concerns. And then, its no longer about the ISK. I started to become quite worried. The dialogue at this point suggests that the security team are operating with no oversight at all, and implies that there is no auditing or checks and balances for their actions, especially as there is no recourse for anyone who wishes to dispute their claims. Which I believe CCP Sreegs has addressed in this thread, and I think if that had just been communicated to Kelduum in private he wouldn't have taken this public at all. I like this game and I like most things CCP has done with it recently, but I think most people will agree with me that communication is not their strongest side.
Jonah Gravenstein Gordian Knot Holdings 5607	Posted - 2013.02.12 19:27:00 - [433] - Quote Sandrestal wrote: Didn't someone at CCP once say, "Greed is Good"? I just find it humurous that the owners of the game can set a standard and then ban people for doing exaclty as CCP exclaimed. Gets so confusing at times. And look where that got them, IIRC we, the playerbase, closed down at least one of the major trade hubs and many of us unsubbed multiple alt accounts in protest at the foul vision of future Eve portrayed in the leaked "Greed is good" internal news letter. I think CCP learned something from that, namely "You do not mess with people who like to play at being bloodthirsty, psychotic demigods", especially when they hold the future of your game in their hands. If it looks like a bot, smells like a bot and acts like a bot, 99% of the time it is a bot. I am Ohm of Borg, Resistance is Voltage/Current.
baltec1 Bat Country 5167	Posted - 2013.02.12 19:29:00 - [434] - Quote Abus Finkel wrote: Which I believe CCP Sreegs has addressed in this thread, and I think if that had just been communicated to Kelduum in private he wouldn't have taken this public at all. I like this game and I like most things CCP has done with it recently, but I think most people will agree with me that communication is not their strongest side. He was told. He didn't like the answer and so started many threads.
Dante Uisen Push button receive bacon 20	Posted - 2013.02.12 19:29:00 - [435] - Quote Finde learth wrote: So the topic is right Are you trying hard to be this stupid, or does it come naturally?
Liang Nuren Heretic Army Atrocitas 2978	Posted - 2013.02.12 19:31:00 - [436] - Quote Abus Finkel wrote: Which I believe CCP Sreegs has addressed in this thread, and I think if that had just been communicated to Kelduum in private he wouldn't have taken this public at all. I like this game and I like most things CCP has done with it recently, but I think most people will agree with me that communication is not their strongest side. That's what you don't seem to get. It was communicated to Kelduum in private. -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Forlorn Wongraven Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion 49	Posted - 2013.02.12 19:31:00 - [437] - Quote So when we as players have Evemon installed which per default has "collect cached market data" enabled we are considered a botter now cause Evemon uses the cache files outside of the client? GF CCP Screegs Shadoo > whoever was the first nyx on grid Shadoo > THANK GOD YOU ARE A SMART MAN and fitted the best tank in PL Shadoo > (ie. cyno)
Jonah Gravenstein Gordian Knot Holdings 5607	Posted - 2013.02.12 19:32:00 - [438] - Quote Dante Uisen wrote: Finde learth wrote: So the topic is right Are you trying hard to be this stupid, or does it come naturally? I think the term dense is somewhat inadequate in this instance. If it looks like a bot, smells like a bot and acts like a bot, 99% of the time it is a bot. I am Ohm of Borg, Resistance is Voltage/Current.
Sariah Kion School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 10	Posted - 2013.02.12 19:32:00 - [439] - Quote The following quote is from the Eve Uni forum thread regarding this incident and specifically directed at Sreeg:http://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=63837&sid=d6f3b3374befacbdfb1b03be09a9c79d&start=120#p559366 kelduum wrote: Unfortunately he's in a position where he can't seem to be wrong at all, and is now personally attacking me (which is getting legally dangerous as my identity is public record). I have no way to disprove any of his claims without being banned for either revealing petition content, or other NDA breach. Interesting. Do we really need someone like this on the CSM? He can spark a **** storm of baseless accusations and then respond like this when rightfully called on his shenanigans Calls for immediate removal from the CSM should begin.
Finde learth Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 30	Posted - 2013.02.12 19:32:00 - [440] - Quote Dante Uisen wrote: Finde learth wrote: So the topic is right Are you trying hard to be this stupid, or does it come naturally? Won't CCL delete your post like this?

Lady Ayeipsia Red Federation 550	Posted - 2013.02.12 19:34:00 - [441] - Quote Finde learth wrote: Din Chao wrote: Finde learth wrote: You think CCP can remove all your assets and ISK for a 14 days ban after 21 days? ISK confirmed to have been obtained through botting, that was tied up in goods that were then liquidated prior to self-immolation? Yes. CCP never said it. CCP just confirmed "John" used bot. Ever hear of deterrence? Basically, the idea here is letting people know that if you bot, you get punished. Part if that punishment is confiscation of isk acquired through illegal means. And if more isk is confiscated from the offender, good. Maybe over punishment will deter other botters. And read the EULA. Ccp can do near anything they want. Tomorrow we could wake up to Hello Kitty online in place of eve. Weay hate it, we may.cancel our subscriptions, but ccp will have abided by their EULA and we won't be able to do anything about it. So if you don't like it, stop subscribing. Otherwise, don't bot and don't be surprised when botters get screwed.
Abus Finkel Caldari Capital Construction Inc. 6	Posted - 2013.02.12 19:35:00 - [442] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Abus Finkel wrote: Which I believe CCP Sreegs has addressed in this thread, and I think if that had just been communicated to Kelduum in private he wouldn't have taken this public at all. I like this game and I like most things CCP has done with it recently, but I think most people will agree with me that communication is not their strongest side. He was told. He didn't like the answer and so started many threads. How do you know that? Have you read CCP's responses to his petitions? All we know is that CCP Sreegs says he was told and Kelduum says he wasn't.
Dan Leviathan Legion of Lemmings V0RTEX. 5	Posted - 2013.02.12 19:40:00 - [443] - Quote Abus Finkel wrote: baltec1 wrote: Abus Finkel wrote: Which I believe CCP Sreegs has addressed in this thread, and I think if that had just been communicated to Kelduum in private he wouldn't have taken this public at all. I like this game and I like most things CCP has done with it recently, but I think most people will agree with me that communication is not their strongest side. He was told. He didn't like the answer and so started many threads. How do you know that? Have you read CCP's responses to his petitions? All we know is that CCP Sreegs says he was told and Kelduum says he wasn't. Even if he lied (which he didn't) it's irrelevant. Quit whining like a spoiled child.
Jonah Gravenstein Gordian Knot Holdings 5608	Posted - 2013.02.12 19:40:00 - [444] - Quote Abus Finkel wrote: baltec1 wrote: Abus Finkel wrote: Which I believe CCP Sreegs has addressed in this thread, and I think if that had just been communicated to Kelduum in private he wouldn't have taken this public at all. I like this game and I like most things CCP has done with it recently, but I think most people will agree with me that communication is not their strongest side. He was told. He didn't like the answer and so started many threads. How do you know that? Have you read CCP's responses to his petitions? All we know is that CCP Sreegs says he was told and Kelduum says he wasn't. Petition replies are always private, Kelduum received replies to his petitions, ergo he was told in private. The source of the ISK is nothing to do with Kelduum, that was between CCP and the person who got temp banned. If CCP had divulged any information to Kelduum, as a third party, they would have broken their own rules with regards to customer confidentiality. If it looks like a bot, smells like a bot and acts like a bot, 99% of the time it is a bot. I am Ohm of Borg, Resistance is Voltage/Current.
Anna Karhunen Inoue INEXP 28	Posted - 2013.02.12 19:43:00 - [445] - Quote Dan Leviathan wrote: Abus Finkel wrote: baltec1 wrote: Abus Finkel wrote: Which I believe CCP Sreegs has addressed in this thread, and I think if that had just been communicated to Kelduum in private he wouldn't have taken this public at all. I like this game and I like most things CCP has done with it recently, but I think most people will agree with me that communication is not their strongest side. He was told. He didn't like the answer and so started many threads. How do you know that? Have you read CCP's responses to his petitions? All we know is that CCP Sreegs says he was told and Kelduum says he wasn't. Even if he lied (which he didn't) it's irrelevant. Quit whining like a spoiled child. If CCP Screeg lied, by same measure then that should mean he should be fired.
baltec1 Bat Country 5169	Posted - 2013.02.12 19:44:00 - [446] - Quote Abus Finkel wrote: baltec1 wrote: Abus Finkel wrote: Which I believe CCP Sreegs has addressed in this thread, and I think if that had just been communicated to Kelduum in private he wouldn't have taken this public at all. I like this game and I like most things CCP has done with it recently, but I think most people will agree with me that communication is not their strongest side. He was told. He didn't like the answer and so started many threads. How do you know that? Have you read CCP's responses to his petitions? All we know is that CCP Sreegs says he was told and Kelduum says he wasn't. CCP Sreegs has told us, in this very thread, that kelduum was told in private several times.
Liang Nuren Heretic Army Atrocitas 2980	Posted - 2013.02.12 19:48:00 - [447] - Quote Anna Karhunen wrote: Probably it is all due to miscommunication of sorts. No, it's probably due to some jerk getting $.$ in his eyes and attempting to use his position as head of a CSM member and large noob corp with lots of influence over many noob accounts to force CCP to give him the botted ISK. -Liang Ed: Remember: it's not a miscommunication just because you didn't get the answer you wanted. Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Borlag Crendraven Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 265	Posted - 2013.02.12 19:51:00 - [448] - Quote Anna Karhunen wrote: If CCP Screeg lied, by same measure then that should mean he should be fired. Lied about what exactly? Kelduum took his friends words at face value without even the slightest consideration that he might actually be botting. He knew that there was something fishy in the isk itself which is why he made the petition, the isk was removed and he started crying that he didn't get to keep it afterall? Not only that, he started making accusations towards CCP's security team and demanding them to be investigated, all the while his buddy gets a free pass just because he says he wasn't botting? Oh but his buddies word must be worth much more than a full investigation with actual proof... Kelduum Revaan has a long history of doing favors to his own inner circle and ignoring everything they do that is shady, ranging from their own forum moderator trolling their boards and banning everyone calling him out on that, and to incidents like this. It wont be the first nor the last time as long as unistas are walking with their blinds on. On top of that Kelduums most recent comments that CCP's treated uni badly for ages and intentionally introduced bugs and features that harm them are downright hilarious. How out of touch can one person really be? E-UNI itself is important and good overall for both the newbies the game itself, but its management rising themselves to a pedestal thinking they're untouchable simply needs to stop.
Liang Nuren Heretic Army Atrocitas 2980	Posted - 2013.02.12 19:52:00 - [449] - Quote Borlag Crendraven wrote: E-UNI itself is important and good overall for both the newbies the game itself, but its management rising themselves to a pedestal thinking they're untouchable simply needs to stop. The OLD E-Uni (back in 2007-2008?) was a good and helpful organization. The new one... not so much. IMO. -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Renzo Ruderi State War Academy Caldari State 19	Posted - 2013.02.12 19:52:00 - [450] - Quote ITT: 13 year old girls fight the powah.



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