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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 31 post(s) |
baltec1
Bat Country
5177
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 21:57:00 -
[541] - Quote
Aren Madigan wrote:Alicia Fermi wrote:Aren Madigan wrote:Innocence until proven guilty, not the other way around. This is not a court of law. It is a game where you rent assets from CCP. OK, ban everyone then, everyone's guilty, no proof that they're not! He's botting and HE's botting and so is she! Ban everyone who types at more than 120 WPM because this is clearly a bot, despite the world record being 216! Nope, the average is around 60ish. Anyone too much faster than than is CLEARLY a botter.
You are only making yourself look stupid or pro botting. He was caught botting like countless others and temp banned and isk removed. |
Zelda Wei
New Horizon Trade Exchange
217
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 21:58:00 -
[542] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:In my opinion cache scraping is illegal. You won't be banned for it today.
Please explain why?
This has long been considered legit, because,the client is not modified, the market cache is only read.
|
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Atrocitas
2998
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 21:58:00 -
[543] - Quote
Aren Madigan wrote:Alicia Fermi wrote:Aren Madigan wrote:Innocence until proven guilty, not the other way around. This is not a court of law. It is a game where you rent assets from CCP. OK, ban everyone then, everyone's guilty, no proof that they're not! He's botting and HE's botting and so is she! Ban everyone who types at more than 120 WPM because this is clearly a bot, despite the world record being 216! Nope, the average is around 60ish. Anyone too much faster than than is CLEARLY a botter.
CCP can and does freely ban upon criteria that they have set up and are internally monitored. In this particular case, your friend wrote an application to speed up his market trading and he was banned for botting. CCP is pretty up front about not allowing this kind of behavior and it shouldn't be surprising that he got banned.
Your friend? He was a botter. He was a hacker. Him and people like him cost the games industry hundreds of millions each year in infrastructure costs. He should be ashamed, and so should you be.
Good day sir. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKG07305CBs
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Abrazzar
750
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Posted - 2013.02.12 21:58:00 -
[544] - Quote
Aren Madigan wrote:Alicia Fermi wrote:Aren Madigan wrote:Innocence until proven guilty, not the other way around. This is not a court of law. It is a game where you rent assets from CCP. OK, ban everyone then, everyone's guilty, no proof that they're not! He's botting and HE's botting and so is she! Ban everyone who types at more than 120 WPM because this is clearly a bot, despite the world record being 216! Nope, the average is around 60ish. Anyone too much faster than than is CLEARLY a botter. Slippery slope much? And no proof you know of equals no proof exists? You seem to lose coherence.
Judge Sreegs isn't corrupt as you try to make us belief. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1594
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 21:59:00 -
[545] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Is this still going on? What the hell are you people arguing about?
He was botting, and then ISK was removed. What's the big?
CCP didn't give special preferential treatment to the CSM member who runs the alliance which was holding the ISK, instead they treated him the same as they would one of those lesser alliances.
Clearly this is unacceptable and CCP should favour important space alliances like Eve Uni and let them keep any botted ISK which just happens to find its way into their hands. Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
Grimpak
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
765
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 22:01:00 -
[546] - Quote
ok I ran out of popcorn. anybody got more? [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Finde learth
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
30
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 22:01:00 -
[547] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Finde learth wrote:CCP keep lying "One Universe // One War". Would you please expound upon this because this is like the 5th time you've said the same cryptic ****. -Liang
You never hear Serenity ? |
Aren Madigan
EVE University Ivy League
74
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 22:02:00 -
[548] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:Aren Madigan wrote:Alicia Fermi wrote:Aren Madigan wrote:Innocence until proven guilty, not the other way around. This is not a court of law. It is a game where you rent assets from CCP. OK, ban everyone then, everyone's guilty, no proof that they're not! He's botting and HE's botting and so is she! Ban everyone who types at more than 120 WPM because this is clearly a bot, despite the world record being 216! Nope, the average is around 60ish. Anyone too much faster than than is CLEARLY a botter. Slippery slope much? And no proof you know of equals no proof exists? You seem to lose coherence. Judge Sreegs isn't corrupt as you try to make us belief.
If you read the rest of my posts all of you who think I'm purely supportive of the guy should feel like idiots. Allow me to quote a previous post.
Aren Madigan wrote: Just because you can't do it and people you know can't do it != someone else can't do it. Some people are flat out incredible around a keyboard. If you watched a really high end pro gamer, you can sometimes see them move their hands and react at speeds that seem impossible to many people. If the speed of the transactions was the question and nothing else, unless it was like an order every half second, that kind of speed alone isn't evidence to anything. Ignorance to other people's abilities is NOT evidence to anything nor should EVER be used as such. Unless they had physical evidence he was botting by actually detecting the programs he used or something along those lines? Then frankly its an overstep. If they had such evidence, then yeah, the guy is on the wrong and it should be dropped.
Frankly though them not removing the ISK in the first place was ridiculous either way.
Notice how I said if they have more evidence than that, they're clearly in the right. Which is fine and dandy. But anyone arguing purely that the speed is evidence enough? Is full of it. But nooo, because I'm arguing against you're incredibly INSANELY bad logic, suddenly I'm blindly supporting him.
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Nicolo da'Vicenza
Air The Unthinkables
3031
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 22:02:00 -
[549] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:supporting wardec evasion and supporting botting go hand in hand, this development isn't surprising And then...
Aren Madigan wrote:Alicia Fermi wrote:Aren Madigan wrote:Innocence until proven guilty, not the other way around. This is not a court of law. It is a game where you rent assets from CCP. OK, ban everyone then, everyone's guilty, no proof that they're not! He's botting and HE's botting and so is she! Perfect timing. |
iskflakes
316
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 22:04:00 -
[550] - Quote
CCP Sreegs, your opinion on cache scraping raises some concerns.
Without cache scraping there's no way to get market data out of the game because no API has been provided. This means sites like EVE Central are forced to rely on cache scraping because there is no alternative. Everybody will agree that EVE Central is an important part of the EVE community. Should EVE Central shutdown?
Many traders (not me) use tools such as this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c96OhoYvgW0 to do cache-scraping semi-automated order updating in the belief that it's EULA-legal. I think some clarification on CCP's cache scraping policy would be good, considering we have contradictory DEV/GM comments on the forums here. Personally I don't think tools such as the one in the linked video should be legal, but that a (maybe 6 hour delayed) API should be provided to allow sites like EVE-central to operate. - |
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Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Atrocitas
2998
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 22:04:00 -
[551] - Quote
Finde learth wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Finde learth wrote:CCP keep lying "One Universe // One War". Would you please expound upon this because this is like the 5th time you've said the same cryptic ****. -Liang You never hear Serenity ?
The dev server? What about it? No, I have no idea what the hell you're talking about.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
18
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 22:05:00 -
[552] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:Arduemont wrote:Is this still going on? What the hell are you people arguing about?
He was botting, and then ISK was removed. What's the big? CCP didn't give special preferential treatment to the CSM member who runs the alliance which was holding the ISK, instead they treated him the same as they would one of those lesser alliances. Clearly this is unacceptable and CCP should favor important space alliances like Eve Uni and let them keep any botted ISK which just happens to find its way into their hands.
It's contemptible behavior firstly but as a CSM member he should be removed immediately.
CSM Kelduum Revaan is the botter's candidate.
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Alicia Fermi
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
33
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 22:06:00 -
[553] - Quote
Aren Madigan wrote:Alicia Fermi wrote:Aren Madigan wrote:Innocence until proven guilty, not the other way around. This is not a court of law. It is a game where you rent assets from CCP. OK, ban everyone then, everyone's guilty, no proof that they're not! He's botting and HE's botting and so is she! Ban everyone who types at more than 120 WPM because this is clearly a bot, despite the world record being 216! Nope, the average is around 60ish. Anyone too much faster than than is CLEARLY a botter. Sreegs says the fact that the player in question was botting cannot be disputed. You obviously do not believe Sreegs. If Sreegs produces evidence, what stops you from doubting it? You clearly do not think Sreegs is of good character because his word at this point in time is insufficient.
Of course, CCP are never going to release their detection methods: that is only going to make it easier for botters to evade detection.
We are left with trusting CCP and, if we do not, voting with our wallets. Frankly Kelduum is destroying what credibility he had left which, for me, is very sad to see. At one point in time I thought he was above using EVE University as his own private army of righteous indignation. |
Whitehound
771
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 22:07:00 -
[554] - Quote
Grimpak wrote:ok I ran out of popcorn. anybody got more? I am having pancakes and could use some coffee. SCAM CAT - Titan Jump - I was there - Goon Dog |
Finde learth
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
30
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 22:09:00 -
[555] - Quote
A 30m sp character, means play at least 14 month. CCP though he use market bot from beginning so remove all his "illegal" 300B ISK after 21 days because of a 14 days ban. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Atrocitas
2999
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 22:11:00 -
[556] - Quote
Finde learth wrote:A 30m sp character, means play at least 14 month. CCP though he use market bot from beginning so remove all his "illegal" 300B ISK because of a 14 days ban.
Yes. What's the problem here?
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
18
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 22:11:00 -
[557] - Quote
Finde learth wrote:A 30m sp character, means play at least 14 month. CCP though he use market bot from beginning so remove all his "illegal" 300B ISK because of a 14 days ban.
He is a dirty botter and all his monies are belong to CCP. |
Dante Uisen
Push button receive bacon
27
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 22:13:00 -
[558] - Quote
Zelda Wei wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:In my opinion cache scraping is illegal. You won't be banned for it today. Please explain why? This has long been considered legit, because,the client is not modified, the market cache is only read.
If reading the cache files are allowed as long as you don't modify then, someone might get creative and start reading the memory of the game client process, and access a lot more then just market data.
|
GeeShizzle MacCloud
288
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 22:13:00 -
[559] - Quote
Karbowiak wrote:Problem is tho, they gave us the tools that allows us to automate a huge chunk of stuff. It's entirely possible for me to create a system for my own use that. 1. Opens up all the market details for certain typeIDs i deal in 2. Checks the client cache with an external script, to fill in all market orders 3. Figure out where my order is priced (using the API) and what it needs to be to undercut the rest 4. Show me the price an item should be, and also put the new price into the paste buffer 5. I just open the order, and modify the isk value and hit ok 6. Hit next in the browser window And then restart from #4 If he actually did this, it's nowhere near botting - it would however still allow him to modify market orders at an alarmingly fast rate, which could be mistaken for botting.
Depending on how rock solid sure you are that what this is, is NOT botting, i think a video detailing the processes, showing the fact the client is unmodified, and showing a physical person using a keyboard to modify multiple orders in less than 2 seconds would go quite far indeed to un-greying this area of the anti-botting part of the EULA.
However as good thatd be to drawing a line in the sand and allowing the community something clear and concise, i doubt itd happen as eve players (especially in this area) compete viciously and guard their secrets quite vigorously to keep their edge against their peers.
:( |
Entity
X-Factor Industries Synthetic Existence
309
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 22:14:00 -
[560] - Quote
iskflakes wrote:CCP Sreegs, your opinion on cache scraping raises some concerns. Without cache scraping there's no way to get market data out of the game because no API has been provided. This means sites like EVE Central are forced to rely on cache scraping because there is no alternative. Everybody will agree that EVE Central is an important part of the EVE community. Should EVE Central shutdown? Many traders (not me) use tools such as this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c96OhoYvgW0 to do cache-scraping semi-automated order updating in the belief that it's EULA-legal. I think some clarification on CCP's cache scraping policy would be good, considering we have contradictory DEV/GM comments on the forums here. Personally I don't think tools such as the one in the linked video should be legal, but that a (maybe 6 hour delayed) API should be provided to allow sites like EVE-central to operate.
Don't worry. His opinion is both moot (since explicit permission was already given), and unenforceable, because reading files on your filesystem is not something that can typically be detected/identified as being a cache decode (heck, it could be me simply copying a client install too, or my AV doing a check), unless CCP installs rootkits on our machines and checks what programs are reading the EVE/cache folders, which I'm sure would go over well with the community ;-)
GòªGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGòæGûæGûæGûæGòöGòùGûæGòæGûæGòæGûæGòöGòùGûæGòªGòæGûæGòöGòùGòöGòªGòùGòöGòù GòæGûæGòöGòùGòöGòùGòöGòúGûæGòöGòùGòáGûæGûæGòáGûæGòáGòùGòáGò¥GûæGòæGòáGûæGòáGò¥GòæGòæGòæGòÜGòù Gò¬GòÉGòÜGò¥GòæGûæGòÜGò¥GûæGòÜGò¥GòæGûæGûæGòÜGò¥GòæGòæGòÜGò¥GûæGò¬GòÜGò¥GòÜGò¥GòæGûæGòæGòÜGò¥ Got Item? |
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Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Atrocitas
3000
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 22:16:00 -
[561] - Quote
Entity wrote:Don't worry. His opinion is both moot (since explicit permission was already given), and unenforceable, because reading files on your filesystem is not something that can typically be detected/identified as being a cache decode (heck, it could be me simply copying a client install too, or my AV doing a check), unless CCP installs rootkits on our machines and checks what programs are reading the EVE/cache folders, which I'm sure would go over well with the community ;-)
Generally speaking it's much easier to detect things that people do in game than things that people do out of game. That said, the guy was obviously not banned for using the cache. He was banned for botting.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|
Entity
X-Factor Industries Synthetic Existence
309
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 22:20:00 -
[562] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Entity wrote:Don't worry. His opinion is both moot (since explicit permission was already given), and unenforceable, because reading files on your filesystem is not something that can typically be detected/identified as being a cache decode (heck, it could be me simply copying a client install too, or my AV doing a check), unless CCP installs rootkits on our machines and checks what programs are reading the EVE/cache folders, which I'm sure would go over well with the community ;-) Generally speaking it's much easier to detect things that people do in game than things that people do out of game. That said, the guy was obviously not banned for using the cache. He was banned for botting. -Liang
Yep. And I couldn't care less about what the banned guy did or did not do really. I'm just defending our granted privilege to read the cache :P GòªGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGòæGûæGûæGûæGòöGòùGûæGòæGûæGòæGûæGòöGòùGûæGòªGòæGûæGòöGòùGòöGòªGòùGòöGòù GòæGûæGòöGòùGòöGòùGòöGòúGûæGòöGòùGòáGûæGûæGòáGûæGòáGòùGòáGò¥GûæGòæGòáGûæGòáGò¥GòæGòæGòæGòÜGòù Gò¬GòÉGòÜGò¥GòæGûæGòÜGò¥GûæGòÜGò¥GòæGûæGûæGòÜGò¥GòæGòæGòÜGò¥GûæGò¬GòÜGò¥GòÜGò¥GòæGûæGòæGòÜGò¥ Got Item? |
Dante Uisen
Push button receive bacon
27
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 22:20:00 -
[563] - Quote
Entity wrote:Don't worry. His opinion is both moot (since explicit permission was already given), and unenforceable, because reading files on your filesystem is not something that can typically be detected/identified as being a cache decode (heck, it could be me simply copying a client install too, or my AV doing a check), unless CCP installs rootkits on our machines and checks what programs are reading the EVE/cache folders, which I'm sure would go over well with the community ;-)
While there is no way to prevent people from reading the files, they could use encryption to make the content useless. |
Aren Madigan
EVE University Ivy League
74
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 22:22:00 -
[564] - Quote
Alicia Fermi wrote: Sreegs says the fact that the player in question was botting cannot be disputed. You obviously do not believe Sreegs. If Screegs produces evidence, what stops you from doubting it? You clearly do not think Sreegs is of good character because his word at this point in time is insufficient.
Of course, CCP are never going to release their detection methods: that is only going to make it easier for botters to evade detection.
We are left with trusting CCP and, if we do not, voting with our wallets. Frankly Kelduum is destroying what credibility he had left which, for me, is very sad to see. At one point in time I thought he was above using EVE University as his own private army of righteous indignation.
I understand why they won't post their methods to some extent. That's fine. I'd kind of like to know what exactly he was doing that falled under botting so I could avoid it if I ever made a station trading alt with some of the CCP approved programs and Javascript methods that they provide to be used in the in game browser, but hey, fine and dandy if they don't. Just gotta be careful. But yes, I question CCP. I question the player accused of botting, I question everything until I see it with my own eyes. I won't always get answers and I understand that, but questioning things is how one learns. About general things, people, everything. Its rather futile at times, but hey. Not to say I can't trust, but sometimes it gets pulled in both directions, so knowing the whole story before making any real judgement is the sensible thing. Right now half the puzzle is missing and will remain missing likely, at this point I'm just saying that the people judging on the speed of the transactions as their only basis? Are being kind of silly. Bots would be a lot faster. Now maybe there was a noticeable pattern that a human couldn't replicate, or maybe it happened the instant some things changed, or any number of things. Don't really know.
But it still doesn't change one thing. They should have taken that money away if they had such evidence in the first place rather than allowing him to keep it at all to give it to someone else. I can see why much of E-UNI is upset over it. Likely the only reason they had it investigated in the first place was to make sure he didn't get it AFTER his ban through some unsavory method or along those lines and because it would have been investigated anyways so they didn't want to spend it on anything until it was cleared. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Atrocitas
3000
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 22:24:00 -
[565] - Quote
Dante Uisen wrote:Entity wrote:Don't worry. His opinion is both moot (since explicit permission was already given), and unenforceable, because reading files on your filesystem is not something that can typically be detected/identified as being a cache decode (heck, it could be me simply copying a client install too, or my AV doing a check), unless CCP installs rootkits on our machines and checks what programs are reading the EVE/cache folders, which I'm sure would go over well with the community ;-) While there is no way to prevent people from reading the files, they could use encryption to make the content useless.
I apologize for the aside: that's actually not true. The hackers have access to the software and hardware that is decrypting it, as well as the decrypted contents in memory. I spend a great deal of time working around this problem every day, and all day yesterday.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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baltec1
Bat Country
5177
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 22:26:00 -
[566] - Quote
Aren Madigan wrote:They should have taken that money away if they had such evidence in the first place rather than allowing him to keep it at all to give it to someone else.
An oversight that they fixed. |
Orlacc
226
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 22:26:00 -
[567] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Entity wrote:Don't worry. His opinion is both moot (since explicit permission was already given), and unenforceable, because reading files on your filesystem is not something that can typically be detected/identified as being a cache decode (heck, it could be me simply copying a client install too, or my AV doing a check), unless CCP installs rootkits on our machines and checks what programs are reading the EVE/cache folders, which I'm sure would go over well with the community ;-) Generally speaking it's much easier to detect things that people do in game than things that people do out of game. That said, the guy was obviously not banned for using the cache. He was banned for botting. -Liang
Why is this so hard for some of you people to comprehend? No fine line. No grey area. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Air The Unthinkables
3031
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 22:28:00 -
[568] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Finde learth wrote:A 30m sp character, means play at least 14 month. CCP though he use market bot from beginning so remove all his "illegal" 300B ISK because of a 14 days ban. Yes. What's the problem here? -Liang He thinks forefeiture of illegally gained ISK and length of ban time are related somehow, is what I'm gettting from his fittingly repetitive, almost bot-like posts. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2402
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 22:28:00 -
[569] - Quote
Aren Madigan wrote:They should have taken that money away if they had such evidence in the first place rather than allowing him to keep it at all to give it to someone else.
Clinging on to a mistake that was both acknowledged & fixed is a moot point. The fact that your CEO is trying to use this as leverage only further proves that he is no longer suitable for the position of CEO or his CSM position.
Apparently booking your flight & accomodation to Iceland BEFORE you buy the tickets for the convention which is pretty much the only reason you wanted to go there in the first place is popular. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Atrocitas
3003
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 22:28:00 -
[570] - Quote
Aren Madigan wrote:Alicia Fermi wrote: Sreegs says the fact that the player in question was botting cannot be disputed. You obviously do not believe Sreegs. If Screegs produces evidence, what stops you from doubting it? You clearly do not think Sreegs is of good character because his word at this point in time is insufficient.
Of course, CCP are never going to release their detection methods: that is only going to make it easier for botters to evade detection.
We are left with trusting CCP and, if we do not, voting with our wallets. Frankly Kelduum is destroying what credibility he had left which, for me, is very sad to see. At one point in time I thought he was above using EVE University as his own private army of righteous indignation.
I understand why they won't post their methods to some extent. That's fine. I'd kind of like to know what exactly he was doing that falled under botting so I could avoid it if I ever made a station trading alt with some of the CCP approved programs and Javascript methods that they provide to be used in the in game browser, but hey, fine and dandy if they don't. Just gotta be careful. But yes, I question CCP. I question the player accused of botting, I question everything until I see it with my own eyes. I won't always get answers and I understand that, but questioning things is how one learns. About general things, people, everything. Its rather futile at times, but hey. Not to say I can't trust, but sometimes it gets pulled in both directions, so knowing the whole story before making any real judgement is the sensible thing. Right now half the puzzle is missing and will remain missing likely, at this point I'm just saying that the people judging on the speed of the transactions as their only basis? Are being kind of silly. Bots would be a lot faster. Now maybe there was a noticeable pattern that a human couldn't replicate, or maybe it happened the instant some things changed, or any number of things. Don't really know. But it still doesn't change one thing. They should have taken that money away if they had such evidence in the first place rather than allowing him to keep it at all to give it to someone else. I can see why much of E-UNI is upset over it. Likely the only reason they had it investigated in the first place was to make sure he didn't get it AFTER his ban through some unsavory method or along those lines and because it would have been investigated anyways so they didn't want to spend it on anything until it was cleared.
Let's suppose for a moment that you were in CCP's place. You have a player that you can PROVE was botting. Yes, prove. Beyond any shadow of any possible doubt, ever. In a court of law if you needed or wanted to. But you ****** up and didn't take away his ISK before his suspension was over and he gave it all to a CSM member/friend and ragequit.
The CSM member makes a petition asking if he can keep the ISK, and no he really can't. Whoops. Now the CSM member is doing everything in his power to torpedo you and permanently damage the company you work for. He's claiming his friend didn't bot and is actively defending the man's good character. He's trying to hold his CSM status over your head and his influential position over the subs of hundreds of new players over you to force you to let him keep the ISK. He's got all his frieds and trying to wield the power of his corp to do the same.
Now, what would you do?
-Liang
Ed: Remember, this is a high profile case and will probably be "precedent setting". Allowing the proceeds from bot-gathering-donated-to-friends to remain in game has obvious consequences. Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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