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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |

Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1659
|
Posted - 2013.03.01 23:42:00 -
[601] - Quote
The issue here is not "is multicasting automation". Even if we all agreed it was not, CCP could still ban it.
The issue is, going forward from now should it continue to be allowed, or banned? http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |

Klymer
Hedion University Amarr Empire
147
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 02:44:00 -
[602] - Quote
How could you enforce a ban on tape and wooden dowels?
|

Iminent Penance
Interstellar Military Assistance Corporation
39
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 05:52:00 -
[603] - Quote
So If I use my laptop and desktop at the same time with two keyboards side by side... and be creative, I should be banned because someone doesnt want to do that?
Can we also ban everyone who doesnt play the way I want them to playstyle-wise as well? |

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3429
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 06:58:00 -
[604] - Quote
Klymer wrote:How could you enforce a ban on tape and wooden dowels? You use the we can do what we want clause.
Iminent Penance wrote:So If I use my laptop and desktop at the same time with two keyboards side by side... and be creative, I should be banned because someone doesnt want to do that?
Can we also ban everyone who doesnt play the way I want them to playstyle-wise as well? Yes, if those playstyles you want removed are things like ganking, awoxing and bumping. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |

Iminent Penance
Interstellar Military Assistance Corporation
42
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 07:20:00 -
[605] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Klymer wrote:How could you enforce a ban on tape and wooden dowels? You use the we can do what we want clause. Iminent Penance wrote:So If I use my laptop and desktop at the same time with two keyboards side by side... and be creative, I should be banned because someone doesnt want to do that?
Can we also ban everyone who doesnt play the way I want them to playstyle-wise as well? Yes, if those playstyles you want removed are things like ganking, awoxing and bumping.
No I just want everyone banned from eve that isnt me :3. Let me own the universe entirely. with no competition! |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4091
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 08:56:00 -
[606] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:The issue here is not "is multicasting automation". Even if we all agreed it was not, CCP could still ban it.
The issue is, going forward from now should it continue to be allowed, or banned? Of course we should continue to allow it. I don't personally do it but I don't see why people have a problem with it, and I think this entire discussion is pointless. Malcanis for CSM 8 Module activation timers are buggy - CCP please fix |

Iminent Penance
Interstellar Military Assistance Corporation
43
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 10:16:00 -
[607] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:The issue here is not "is multicasting automation". Even if we all agreed it was not, CCP could still ban it.
The issue is, going forward from now should it continue to be allowed, or banned? Of course we should continue to allow it. I don't personally do it but I don't see why people have a problem with it, and I think this entire discussion is pointless.
Anything that others do that you don't want to do should be BANNED because it isnt fair.
Duh |

Dave Stark
1879
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 11:11:00 -
[608] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Astri Lastri wrote:Automation is not when your action is cause of allowed game action, even if you sent that action to multiple clients.
When you use meta actions (which gives you advantage) you break EULA. Meta action is when your action cause queue of allowed game actions occur. No matter if you use single or multiple clients. THIS IS AUTOMATION. except to send something to multiple clients you've sent something, and provided an input, so it isn't automation.... For that account you are controlling yes. Not the other 19 in your 20man army. Those clicks were automated by a script to duplicate the original input. The best reference was the "pedaling while on 2 bicycles" analogy. You can own 2 bikes, noone is disputing that fact. You can either alternate riding them down the street, or you can ride 1 to your destination and walk/travel to the other bike then ride it down to your destination. I'm sure you could technically fashion a broomhandle across the handle bars to hardware comply multiple actions... But ultimately, you cannot ride 2 bikes at once. Not without assistance of some kind. The EULA, should govern that assistance, not monitor it.
bikes have nothing to do with this.
at the end of the day, multiboxing doesn't even come remotely close to breaching the eula. if people would actually read. "100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system." |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4095
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 11:41:00 -
[609] - Quote
Boobiq wrote:Multiplication is automation if you have no understanding of programming then dont post. You first. Malcanis for CSM 8 Module activation timers are buggy - CCP please fix |

Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami No Value
262
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 14:37:00 -
[610] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:The issue here is not "is multicasting automation". Even if we all agreed it was not, CCP could still ban it.
The issue is, going forward from now should it continue to be allowed, or banned?
I still think the title of the thread disagrees. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |

Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami No Value
262
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 14:49:00 -
[611] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Astri Lastri wrote:Automation is not when your action is cause of allowed game action, even if you sent that action to multiple clients.
When you use meta actions (which gives you advantage) you break EULA. Meta action is when your action cause queue of allowed game actions occur. No matter if you use single or multiple clients. THIS IS AUTOMATION. except to send something to multiple clients you've sent something, and provided an input, so it isn't automation.... For that account you are controlling yes. Not the other 19 in your 20man army. Those clicks were automated by a script to duplicate the original input. The best reference was the "pedaling while on 2 bicycles" analogy. You can own 2 bikes, noone is disputing that fact. You can either alternate riding them down the street, or you can ride 1 to your destination and walk/travel to the other bike then ride it down to your destination. I'm sure you could technically fashion a broomhandle across the handle bars to hardware comply multiple actions... But ultimately, you cannot ride 2 bikes at once. Not without assistance of some kind. The EULA, should govern that assistance, not monitor it. bikes have nothing to do with this. at the end of the day, multiboxing doesn't even come remotely close to breaching the eula [or, at least the section people seem fond of quoting]. if people would actually read.
We are talking about using a program to simulate the actions you told 1 computer to do. Since the eula does state that it is forbidden to use any sort of 3rd party program to perform any action to give a player an upper hand... we are playing in the gray area of laziness versus programming compared to actually doing the work yourself.
We can revisit the argument about bots and comparing the 2 based on what they do and accomplish, but like you said- at the end of the day CCP has ruled otherwise. But that's why this thread is a PETITION and why it doesn't make sense to ignore that little tidbit.
Because at the end of the day, multiboxing is not doing the work equally across accounts, it's using a program to do it for you. Hence this whole discussion.
So while bikes may not have anything to do with it.... multiboxing programs do, and the analogy still fits. It's about the inherent laziness to acquire goods at the expense of effort and NOT being at the keyboard for each account, since you are using a program to do the work for you.
Again, the gray area between multiboxing and botting.
But yea, false pretenses of "oh look we hit 500k subs!" because of multiple accounts doesn't really give a sense of more people, only more accounts.
While it isn't illegal by definition, it is still regarded as false pretenses and therefore distasteful to those that care.
For those that don't care... don't contribute. Simple. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |

Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1898
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 15:14:00 -
[612] - Quote
I agree.
Software that allows you to connect multiple clients to a single keystroke shouldn't be allowed.
If CCP is going to allow stuff like that, then they should build it into EVE.
This includes complex macros from mice and keyboards. I could have swore that it was posible for developers to block LUA commands given from things like G15's or something? I know I've played other online games and the game would get all wonky whenever I used a macro key.
However, it would be foolish to do this now. I'm pretty sure that after 10 years of allowing people to multibox in a game that actually promotes the purchase of more accounts for alts, the amount of revenue they would lose if they enforced a rule like this could quite possible end them.
Does anyone think that only a really small portion of the playerbase uses this kind of stuff? After many, many years of watching people in mining belts I feel confident saying that software that allows you to connect multiple clients is used on a rather regular basis.
They should make it a native ability of the client. |

Dave Stark
1879
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 16:55:00 -
[613] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:We are talking about using a program to simulate the actions you told 1 computer to do.
so, nothing to do with bikes. "100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system." |

Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami No Value
263
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 17:48:00 -
[614] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:We are talking about using a program to simulate the actions you told 1 computer to do. so, nothing to do with bikes.
Stay on topic please forum warrior. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3441
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 17:55:00 -
[615] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:I agree.
Software that allows you to connect multiple clients to a single keystroke shouldn't be allowed.
If CCP is going to allow stuff like that, then they should build it into EVE.
This includes complex macros from mice and keyboards. I could have swore that it was posible for developers to block LUA commands given from things like G15's or something? I know I've played other online games and the game would get all wonky whenever I used a macro key.
However, it would be foolish to do this now. I'm pretty sure that after 10 years of allowing people to multibox in a game that actually promotes the purchase of more accounts for alts, the amount of revenue they would lose if they enforced a rule like this could quite possible end them.
Does anyone think that only a really small portion of the playerbase uses this kind of stuff? After many, many years of watching people in mining belts I feel confident saying that software that allows you to connect multiple clients is used on a rather regular basis.
They should make it a native ability of the client. EVE Online: Massively Multiboxer Online Highsecurity Game Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |

Dave Stark
1879
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 17:57:00 -
[616] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:We are talking about using a program to simulate the actions you told 1 computer to do. so, nothing to do with bikes. Stay on topic please forum warrior.
i wasn't the one talking about bikes.
actually, the last time i stayed on topic it was deleted for being off topic, which was actually funny as ****. "100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system." |

Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy Caldari State
83
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 20:41:00 -
[617] - Quote
Kal Mindar wrote:
Edit: This is pretty sad. I have never seen such a lack of reading comprehension in my life. I started this thread to petition against ONE thing only and that was Duplication of clicks via a 3rd party program. From there, you guys have talked about fleet warp being duplication? Really? An in game feature is 3rd party software? Ban multi boxing? Are you kidding? No one said anything about one person being able to control multiple accounts. OP is just mad/poor/idiot/etc..... I use 4 accounts to play this game, I multi box, I have plenty of $ thank you for isboxer or more accounts.
If the shoes fits...
|

Tarn Kugisa
Infinite Covenant Tribal Band
397
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 20:58:00 -
[618] - Quote
implying that this affects your life in any way I Endorse this Product and/or Service EVE Online Battle Recorder When I press F1 I get ISK |

Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami No Value
263
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 21:20:00 -
[619] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:We are talking about using a program to simulate the actions you told 1 computer to do. so, nothing to do with bikes. Stay on topic please forum warrior. i wasn't the one talking about bikes. actually, the last time i stayed on topic it was deleted for being off topic, which was actually funny as ****.
So your reading comprehension is "selective". Got it. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |

Dave Stark
1880
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 21:22:00 -
[620] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:We are talking about using a program to simulate the actions you told 1 computer to do. so, nothing to do with bikes. Stay on topic please forum warrior. i wasn't the one talking about bikes. actually, the last time i stayed on topic it was deleted for being off topic, which was actually funny as ****. So your reading comprehension is "selective". Got it.
no, i just tend to stop reading when people start going off topic, because it never gets back to the topic. "100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system." |

Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami No Value
263
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 21:40:00 -
[621] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:no, i just tend to stop reading when people start going off topic, because it never gets back to the topic.
So by telling me that I was the one going off topic when I wasn't the one to originally bring up the analogy that you focused on, but only agreed with it... is you staying on topic and NOT being selective?
Tell me more. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |

Dave Stark
1880
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 21:53:00 -
[622] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:Dave Stark wrote:no, i just tend to stop reading when people start going off topic, because it never gets back to the topic. So by telling me that I was the one going off topic when I wasn't the one to originally bring up the analogy that you focused on, but only agreed with it... is you staying on topic and NOT being selective? Tell me more.
what's to tell? 30 plus pages and people still can't read the eula. "100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system." |

Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami No Value
263
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 21:58:00 -
[623] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:Dave Stark wrote:no, i just tend to stop reading when people start going off topic, because it never gets back to the topic. So by telling me that I was the one going off topic when I wasn't the one to originally bring up the analogy that you focused on, but only agreed with it... is you staying on topic and NOT being selective? Tell me more. what's to tell? 30 plus pages and people still can't read the eula.
And yet you evade still. Very well, I accept your surrender. And to answer your question, the EULA is fairly simple to read, just unfortunately the GMs made a ruling against it.
It happens all the time. Hence, 30 pages. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |

Dave Stark
1880
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 22:00:00 -
[624] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:Dave Stark wrote:no, i just tend to stop reading when people start going off topic, because it never gets back to the topic. So by telling me that I was the one going off topic when I wasn't the one to originally bring up the analogy that you focused on, but only agreed with it... is you staying on topic and NOT being selective? Tell me more. what's to tell? 30 plus pages and people still can't read the eula. And yet you evade still. Very well, I accept your surrender. And to answer your question, the EULA is fairly simple to read, just unfortunately the GMs made a ruling against it. It happens all the time. Hence, 30 pages.
sorry evade what? "100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system." |

Mildew Wolf
74
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 02:51:00 -
[625] - Quote
isboxed bomber wings etc are kinda lame imo |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4107
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 03:00:00 -
[626] - Quote
Mildew Wolf wrote:isboxed bomber wings etc are kinda lame imo Do you know of anybody that does that? Because I don't. Malcanis for CSM 8 Module activation timers are buggy - CCP please fix |

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3446
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 03:03:00 -
[627] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Mildew Wolf wrote:isboxed bomber wings etc are kinda lame imo Do you know of anybody that does that? Because I don't. In bomberwaffe we have someone who does this.
He messes up the fleet by logging in and joiining with multiple characters. You can see squads with 15 people ... Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |

Mildew Wolf
74
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 03:23:00 -
[628] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Mildew Wolf wrote:isboxed bomber wings etc are kinda lame imo Do you know of anybody that does that? Because I don't. In bomberwaffe we have someone who does this. He messes up the fleet by logging in and joiining with multiple characters. You can see squads with 15 people ...
Yes I know of someone personally that does it and have heard of others.
Some of what I've heard involved goons. I'm pretty sure at least a couple of you could figure out how to make it work ))) |

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3447
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 05:13:00 -
[629] - Quote
Mildew Wolf wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Mildew Wolf wrote:isboxed bomber wings etc are kinda lame imo Do you know of anybody that does that? Because I don't. In bomberwaffe we have someone who does this. He messes up the fleet by logging in and joiining with multiple characters. You can see squads with 15 people ... Yes I know of someone personally that does it and have heard of others. Some of what I've heard involved goons. I'm pretty sure at least a couple of you could figure out how to make it work ))) Some of us have enough terrible at eve to "fill" several slots in a bomber fleet. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |

Boobiq
Imperial Express
5
|
Posted - 2013.03.04 09:01:00 -
[630] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:I agree.
Software that allows you to connect multiple clients to a single keystroke shouldn't be allowed.
If CCP is going to allow stuff like that, then they should build it into EVE.
This includes complex macros from mice and keyboards. I could have swore that it was posible for developers to block LUA commands given from things like G15's or something? I know I've played other online games and the game would get all wonky whenever I used a macro key.
However, it would be foolish to do this now. I'm pretty sure that after 10 years of allowing people to multibox in a game that actually promotes the purchase of more accounts for alts, the amount of revenue they would lose if they enforced a rule like this could quite possible end them.
Does anyone think that only a really small portion of the playerbase uses this kind of stuff? After many, many years of watching people in mining belts I feel confident saying that software that allows you to connect multiple clients is used on a rather regular basis.
They should make it a native ability of the client.
I do believe that small amount of players use multiboxing so I do not think it will affect player base in whole. A year ago there were bots/boxers in 4-5 piloted groups. Now 80+ in one system. I think that if they will get banned it would allow real players to earn more profit from all the activities done by multiboxers/bots currently.
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