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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
EI Digin
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
552
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Posted - 2013.02.27 23:16:00 -
[61] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:dear all new players:
if i, a three year old grizzled veteran with 3 accounts and a spreadsheet screw you over by making your preferred way to play the game essentially worthless then you're going to have to take the standings hit and be forced out of highsec eventually in order to get revenge
~deal with it~
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
624
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Posted - 2013.02.27 23:22:00 -
[62] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:EI Digin wrote:dear all new players:
if i, a three year old grizzled veteran with 3 accounts and a spreadsheet screw you over by making your preferred way to play the game essentially worthless then you're going to have to take the standings hit and be forced out of highsec eventually in order to get revenge
~deal with it~ Though even if those veterans were incapable of evading wardecs they are more capable of setting themselves up in a way that minimizes or nullifies the affect of your wardec. |
Whitehound
1035
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Posted - 2013.02.27 23:27:00 -
[63] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:EI Digin wrote:dear all new players:
if i, a three year old grizzled veteran with 3 accounts and a spreadsheet screw you over by making your preferred way to play the game essentially worthless then you're going to have to take the standings hit and be forced out of highsec eventually in order to get revenge
~deal with it~ Your comment did not make any sense the first time. With only three years of EVE are you no veteran. Being a veteran then only enables you to tell about the old times, but it does not give you any rights with regards to the future (other than perhaps a place in a retirement home). Would you care to explain the rest of your comment, because dealing with it and without a further explanation means to ignore it. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Skeln Thargensen
The Scope Gallente Federation
41
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Posted - 2013.02.27 23:32:00 -
[64] - Quote
grizzled vet demands right to shoot noobs in highsec, probably.
i hope i die before i get grizzled vet. I take back my previous statements and judgements of others. -áyou can mine in iteron if you want. |
EI Digin
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
552
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Posted - 2013.02.27 23:34:00 -
[65] - Quote
let's just ignore the whole part about where a player gets to run other players out of business and the only recourse that player has involves them being thrown out of highsec
instead let's talk about how a three year player isn't a veteran, or how those veteran players can somehow become immune from wardecs and combat, or how it's all about good players shooting noobs |
Skeln Thargensen
The Scope Gallente Federation
41
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Posted - 2013.02.27 23:37:00 -
[66] - Quote
you could just explain what any of that meant in the first place. I take back my previous statements and judgements of others. -áyou can mine in iteron if you want. |
Whitehound
1035
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Posted - 2013.02.27 23:42:00 -
[67] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:let's just ignore the whole part about where a player gets to run other players out of business and the only recourse that player has involves them being thrown out of highsec What exactly happened? Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
624
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Posted - 2013.02.27 23:49:00 -
[68] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:let's just ignore the whole part about where a player gets to run other players out of business and the only recourse that player has involves them being thrown out of highsec
instead let's talk about how a three year player isn't a veteran, or how those veteran players can somehow become immune from wardecs and combat, or how it's all about good players shooting noobs Or we could not pretend every wardec is noobs trying to force veterans out of business (or about economic competition at all) and look at the mechanics as a whole. We could also look at the fact that recovering sec status is (tediously) possible. Or that they could create or buy dedicated alts and not be concerned with the sec status of that character like many already do. |
Lin Suizei
105
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Posted - 2013.02.28 00:06:00 -
[69] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Or we could not pretend every wardec is noobs trying to force veterans out of business (or about economic competition at all) and look at the mechanics as a whole. We could also look at the fact that recovering sec status is (tediously) possible. Or that they could create or buy dedicated alts and not be concerned with the sec status of that character like many already do.
You cannot seriously think that the current system is okay, and highsec PvP should be based on suicide ganking, especially after the repeated nerfs which the fine art of suicide ganking has suffered. Please do not be a risk-averse coward. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
624
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Posted - 2013.02.28 00:16:00 -
[70] - Quote
Lin Suizei wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Or we could not pretend every wardec is noobs trying to force veterans out of business (or about economic competition at all) and look at the mechanics as a whole. We could also look at the fact that recovering sec status is (tediously) possible. Or that they could create or buy dedicated alts and not be concerned with the sec status of that character like many already do. You cannot seriously think that the current system is okay, and highsec PvP should be based on suicide ganking, especially after the repeated nerfs which the fine art of suicide ganking has suffered. I don't think things are in a good state, and I don't know how to fix it. But at the same time I don't believe locking people into combat situations for indefinite periods is going to be good for the game or the subscription base in the long run. some may be of the opinion that those lost are those the game should lose and will gain back others more "in tune with the true spirit of the game" but I'm not so optimistic. I'd also like to believe the sandbox does have some room for casuals, and locking people into wardecs sems a largely anticasual move.
In the meantime suicide ganking is a legit and workable mechanic. The threshold for profitability has been raised several times admittedly, but all that really means is that there is a disconnect between the level of triviality people believe there should be in doing so and possibly things that weren't initially considered in the meta game. |
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Skeln Thargensen
The Scope Gallente Federation
42
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Posted - 2013.02.28 00:27:00 -
[71] - Quote
ultimately, seeking to fight people who don't wish to fight is the 'mechanic' that is to blame. perhaps your other hobby is herding cats, i don't know. but there's any number of people up for a ruck in this game and it's not terribly hard to find them. you might not find them on your terms but that;s what you're wishing on others so HTFU etc. I take back my previous statements and judgements of others. -áyou can mine in iteron if you want. |
EI Digin
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
552
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Posted - 2013.02.28 00:31:00 -
[72] - Quote
Suicide ganking is basically a gigantic artificial hoop that players have to jump through in order to get any sort of reaction out of someone who you don't like, for legitimate reasons or not. It's a huge undertaking if you want to start suicide ganking someone, especially if you are a player who doesn't want to live in lowsec or nullsec, a poor player, or a new player. |
Skeln Thargensen
The Scope Gallente Federation
42
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Posted - 2013.02.28 00:41:00 -
[73] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:Suicide ganking is basically a gigantic artificial hoop that players have to jump through in order to get any sort of reaction out of someone who you don't like, for legitimate reasons or not. It's a huge undertaking if you want to start suicide ganking someone, especially if you are a player who doesn't want to live in lowsec or nullsec, a poor player, or a new player.
ah the I care about noobs (I want to gank) post.
glass cannons is all you get, meight. get better at sums. I take back my previous statements and judgements of others. -áyou can mine in iteron if you want. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
624
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Posted - 2013.02.28 01:18:00 -
[74] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:Suicide ganking is basically a gigantic artificial hoop that players have to jump through in order to get any sort of reaction out of someone who you don't like, for legitimate reasons or not. It's a huge undertaking if you want to start suicide ganking someone, especially if you are a player who doesn't want to live in lowsec or nullsec, a poor player, or a new player. Prior to it's most recent nerf(s) subsidizing gankers to promote OTEC profitability was a thing. That said people were doing it quite often without those subsidies prior. Even now it doesn't seem to be limited to only rare and isolated incidents.
Perfectly balanced? Not sure, but there are things I would change. Unworkable and/or terribly intensive? On the scale of activities here, evidence would suggest no unless you were doing something on a large scale. |
Don Purple
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2013.02.28 05:04:00 -
[75] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:, or you could hire people, who would suicide gank their own grandmothers for isk, to go on the rampage for a week or so, on your behalf.
^ always down :) |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1864
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Posted - 2013.02.28 07:10:00 -
[76] - Quote
Rex Aparte wrote:Thinks the point of wardecs are for mining or indy or noob corps - check
Whines when said corp uses game mechanics to get out of a wardec they don't want to be in - check
Even calls it an exploit and wants game changed so corps that don't want to be at war get "trapped" for at least a week. - check
I find it so funny that people are a. proud of their "wardecs" and b. surprised when their foe doesn't want to fight, and cry about it all day long on the forums. As someone smarter than me said, go ahead and wardec the best hisec merc alliance. I guarantee you they won't try and get out of it. But then again, that won't give you the easymode free kills you're looking for. Then it would you docking up and dissolving your corp instantly. Cry. Moar.
If they are indeed botters, petition them, wardeccing them does nothing to help your cause. This guy thinks wardecs have anything to do with anything other then one corp going to war with another.
You're not exempt because you're a miner.
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dexington
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
583
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Posted - 2013.02.28 07:23:00 -
[77] - Quote
It should be harder til avoid a wardec, and it should be more expensive to start a war. Increase the consequence of both parties. GÇ£The best way to keep something bad from happening is to see it ahead of time, and you can't see it if you refuse to face the possibility.GÇ¥ |
Whitehound
1041
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Posted - 2013.02.28 07:30:00 -
[78] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:Suicide ganking is basically a gigantic artificial hoop that players have to jump through in order to get any sort of reaction out of someone who you don't like, for legitimate reasons or not. It's a huge undertaking if you want to start suicide ganking someone, especially if you are a player who doesn't want to live in lowsec or nullsec, a poor player, or a new player. You do get a reaction out of them when you declare war and they then surrender to you.
I am coming under the impression that it is something specific you want them to do, like you want them to fail at something, because you failed at it and you now hate them for it. Perhaps you want them to hate you back. If so then know that some players will always win the "hating game", because they just never hate another player and it is only a game to them, but they will only hate the game and themselves for failing at it. You just cannot get any reaction out of anyone just because you want them to. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1865
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Posted - 2013.02.28 07:40:00 -
[79] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:EI Digin wrote:Suicide ganking is basically a gigantic artificial hoop that players have to jump through in order to get any sort of reaction out of someone who you don't like, for legitimate reasons or not. It's a huge undertaking if you want to start suicide ganking someone, especially if you are a player who doesn't want to live in lowsec or nullsec, a poor player, or a new player. You do get a reaction out of them when you declare war and they then surrender to you. I am coming under the impression that it is something specific you want them to do, like you want them to fail at something, because you failed at it and you now hate them for it. Perhaps you want them to hate you back. If so then know that some players will always win the "hating game", because they just never hate another player and it is only a game to them, but they will only hate the game and themselves for failing at it. You just cannot get any reaction out of anyone just because you want them to. It's not surrender when you disband your corp due to a wardec. It's exploitation of the NPC corps.
If disbanding the corp to get out of war was the intended method of surrender, there wouldn't be an actual option to surrender and high sec wouldn't be the only place this happens on a regular basis.
This seems to be the point some of you are neglecting, and I would guess because most of you understand this and won't admit to it because your afraid CCP would actually do something about it.
Every person the leaves a player run corp should be losing something significant. If those miners actually lost something, like the ability to mine just as well as before, they wouldn't disband corps as often.
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Whitehound
1042
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Posted - 2013.02.28 08:08:00 -
[80] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:It's not surrender ... bla bla bla. Yes, it is. You declare war - they disband. It is a reaction on your declaration and it is a surrender.
You are quite an annoying whiner for a Goon. What is wrong with you? Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
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Psychotic Monk
The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard
772
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Posted - 2013.02.28 08:09:00 -
[81] - Quote
This question boils down to one that needs to be awnsered by the Devs.
Is this a game about competition and player interaction, or is this a single player game with a chat box tacked on?
The game I'm here to play is a cutthroat competitive game where extensive knowledge of the interaction of many systems is your primary weapon and if you're bad at it you lose space-monies.
The game that many other players (and some developers) seem to have come here to be involved in is space-themed grinding sim where if you're bad at it you just don't advance as quickly as your peers.
Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Have a blog, if you care. |
Whitehound
1042
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Posted - 2013.02.28 08:12:00 -
[82] - Quote
Psychotic Monk wrote:Is this a game about competition and player interaction, or is this a single player game with a chat box tacked on? Seems to me with all the crying over war-dec mechanics that it is an MMO, where some players want to live in high-sec and turn into into a single-player game by using war-decs and to drive others away and when it fails they try even harder by whining on it on the forums. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Aren Madigan
EVE University Ivy League
138
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Posted - 2013.02.28 08:15:00 -
[83] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote:It's not surrender ... bla bla bla. Yes, it is. You declare war - they disband. It is a reaction on your declaration and it is a surrender. You are quite an annoying whiner for a Goon. What is wrong with you?
Not exactly a surrender if all they do is immediately reform soon after quite often. Does not really make for a good argument at all regardless of what side of the fence you're on :/ |
Whitehound
1042
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Posted - 2013.02.28 08:30:00 -
[84] - Quote
Aren Madigan wrote:Not exactly a surrender if all they do is immediately reform soon after quite often. Does not really make for a good argument at all regardless of what side of the fence you're on :/ That is just you.
It is not different from surrendering to 5 wars simultaneously either. When you then do not like it then find someone else. Insisting to fight a specific target is just dumb and stupid, and riding on it for the sake of an argument can only have one goal - to harass specific players. When people do not want to fight then they do not want to fight. Get it into your head.
Should the game ever change and the targets then decide to fight you back and then suddenly kick your arse will you be again crying on the forum. This time then about how you cannot get out of war or how this is now all unfair. It is not them who cry about some mechanics, you know? Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Aren Madigan
EVE University Ivy League
140
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Posted - 2013.02.28 08:34:00 -
[85] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Aren Madigan wrote:Not exactly a surrender if all they do is immediately reform soon after quite often. Does not really make for a good argument at all regardless of what side of the fence you're on :/ That is just you. It is not different from surrendering to 5 wars simultaneously either. When you then do not like it then find someone else. Insisting to fight a specific target is just dumb and stupid, and riding on it for the sake of an argument can only have one goal - to harass specific players. When people do not want to fight then they do not want to fight. Get it into your head. Should the game ever change and the targets then decide to fight you back and then suddenly kick your arse will you be again crying on the forum. This time then about how you cannot get out of war or how this is now all unfair. It is not them who cry about some mechanics, you know?
Fairness is a two way street, not one. While it wouldn't be fair to go all hardcore on the mechanic, its also not fair for someone to spend 50 million for absolutely nothing of value to happen at all. Disband, reform, and all that happened is the aggressor lost 50 mil. I'm sorry, I'm against what a lot of the guys who want to expand wardecs are saying too, but ignoring this factor is just being self centered. |
Whitehound
1042
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Posted - 2013.02.28 08:55:00 -
[86] - Quote
Aren Madigan wrote:Fairness is a two way street, not one. While it wouldn't be fair to go all hardcore on the mechanic, its also not fair for someone to spend 50 million for absolutely nothing of value to happen at all. Disband, reform, and all that happened is the aggressor lost 50 mil. I'm sorry, I'm against what a lot of the guys who want to expand wardecs are saying too, but ignoring this factor is just being self centered. I lose 30m-40m ISKs only by setting up a single market order and almost every day. I get nothing for it and the fact that I make a profit is my own doing. Now do you see me crying about it? No!
So stop with the crying over war-decs. You did not buy a damn thing with it other than the chance of a fight. You still have not realized that you are not even fighting and that your war can cause you losses, just like I can have losses on the market and the broker fee is not a guarantee for anything other than me getting a chance.
You may only think that if the war-dec cost would give you a guaranteed fight you would then also get a guaranteed win. It is a false logic.
Simply check a corp's war history and see if they have been in many wars and if kills/losses were made. If you do not see it then do not war-dec. And war-decs is not the only way to get fights in high-sec. You can always look for active wars with kills and offer assistance. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Aren Madigan
EVE University Ivy League
140
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Posted - 2013.02.28 09:00:00 -
[87] - Quote
The difference is that one involves skill, the other doesn't, which completely kills the argument you were trying to make from the first sentence. Your efforts make or break that 30-40m. If you lose a lot of money during the war from losses, that's because of your own failings, or the other side catching you with your pants down. Different situation here. |
Whitehound
1042
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Posted - 2013.02.28 09:03:00 -
[88] - Quote
Aren Madigan wrote:The difference is that one involves skill, the other doesn't, which completely kills the argument you were trying to make from the first sentence. Your efforts make or break that 30-40m. If you lose a lot of money during the war from losses, that's because of your own failings, or the other side catching you with your pants down. Different situation here. No. I can lose billions on the market, too. Those 30m-40m ISKs do not give me anything. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Aren Madigan
EVE University Ivy League
140
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Posted - 2013.02.28 09:06:00 -
[89] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Aren Madigan wrote:The difference is that one involves skill, the other doesn't, which completely kills the argument you were trying to make from the first sentence. Your efforts make or break that 30-40m. If you lose a lot of money during the war from losses, that's because of your own failings, or the other side catching you with your pants down. Different situation here. No. I can lose billions on the market, too. Those 30m-40m ISKs do not give me anything.
And you'd be losing it due to your own doing. Your comparison would be like saying losing 30-40m gambling is the same as it using it to buy something, but instead of being given what you paid for, the seller runs away with the dough. |
Whitehound
1042
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Posted - 2013.02.28 09:09:00 -
[90] - Quote
Aren Madigan wrote:Whitehound wrote:Aren Madigan wrote:The difference is that one involves skill, the other doesn't, which completely kills the argument you were trying to make from the first sentence. Your efforts make or break that 30-40m. If you lose a lot of money during the war from losses, that's because of your own failings, or the other side catching you with your pants down. Different situation here. No. I can lose billions on the market, too. Those 30m-40m ISKs do not give me anything. And you'd be losing it due to your own doing. Your comparison would be like saying losing 30-40m gambling is the same as it using it to buy something, but instead of being given what you paid for, the seller runs away with the dough. No. 30m-40m ISKs is the broker fee I have to pay on a daily basis. I trade with billions of ISKs and have high skills as well as good standings. It still costs me this much only to set up a single market order each time.
There is no difference here. It is an ISK sink just the same and I have to pay it like everybody else.
In fact, do I have to pay the price twice, because I buy with buy orders for I need to pay a fee and sell it with sell orders, which costs me again the same fee. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
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