Also, what do current Orca pilots think of the fact that it took them 49 days to get into this ship, and the new system will be 17 days?

But will 17 days mean you can 'fly it well' ?

That depends on what you plan to use it for.. If you want a 'small' freighter to move your stuff around, 17 days is pretty much all you need to get 180k m3 cargo, 40k fleet cargo hold and a nice big assembled ship hold. A friend of mine used his orca mainly to move his entire 'missioning' fleet of ships he used for various kinds of missions in it from hub to hub when he wanted to change which corp/faction/whatever he was missioning for.

To fly it 'well' in the sense as the guy smoking a cigar while miners around him are being boosted by his awesome presence, that will take a lot longer, but still shorter than what you need now, as you will no longer need to be able to fly a barge and such to get into that orca. So basicly, you can skill up a toon for sitting in that orca, who isn't even capable of mining themselves. Only able to tell people how to mine better ;)

I can fly an orca, and yes, it's annoying that I had to train up all kinds of skills that aren't needed to use said orca. I'm happy that they are removed though, the changes in training make skilling up for a ship much more sense. You train for what you want to fly, not a whole bunch of other skills you don't need to fly whatever it is you want to fly.

No, it's not wasted. No, you won't be reimbursed. No, you shouldn't be reimbursed. Yes, you should get over it.

Also, what do current Orca pilots think of the fact that it took them 49 days to get into this ship, and the new system will be 17 days?

I'm happy that they are removed though, the changes in training make skilling up for a ship much more sense.

It's not irrelevant to my feelings, man!

Also, hi Ruby. How have you been?

I agree that the new tech tree makes much more sense, and I like it too. I just don't like that some people had to waste a ton of time sinking skill points into something and it was all useless and a waste, and no kind of reimbursement for it. Furthermore, someone under the new system doesn't have to make that sacrifice. "Tough noogies" doesn't seem to be a good explanation here.

But will 17 days mean you can 'fly it well' ?

That any new Orca alts I might want will take less time to train... Unless you have a time machine, the current price for a good that you own but cannot sell (i.e. a Sunk cost) is irrelevant.

What CCP has done is lower the barrier for competition.This is not the same as making a skill useless.

Every definition comes with context. This is true for "sunk cost". It does not apply in this case as there was no alternative such as I can expend 49 days to fly Orca A or 39 days to fly Orca B. If you wanted to fly an Orca in the past it was 49 days.

You are misconstruing that all costs in the past are sunk.

The correct measure is opportunity cost. At the time of deciding to train an Orca there was an opportunity cost, train an Orca or spend my skill points on something else.

What CCP has done is lower the barrier for competition.This is not the same as making a skill useless.

2) The SP is not a waste. You got the benefit you paid for, at the time you paid for it, and at a price you were willing to pay. Does your car dealership send you a check if they sell an identical car to someone else at a lower price?

3) CCP has never reimbursed SP for still extant and useful skills.

]All unrecoverable costs in the past are sunk, and should be ignored when making decisions.

What CCP has done is lower the barrier for competition.This is not the same as making a skill useless.

Yep. And not a compelling reason for reimbursing anything.

There's nothing "still extant and useful" about it. I'm not using the skills for anything. I didn't want them for anything but Orca. It was just a waste. The reason I guess you don't care is, it probably doesn't affect you.

[quote=Nexus Day]Is CCP deciding to make everything easy all of a sudden?

I agree that the new tech tree makes much more sense, and I like it too. I just don't like that some people had to waste a ton of time sinking skill points into something and it was all useless and a waste, and no kind of reimbursement for it.

Your analogies don't work for several reasons, but I will just cover one. I didn't get any benefit of anything. Like I said, I didn't finish the training, I just dumped God knows how many weeks into training for it before I stopped after reading that blog post.

The better analogy would be that I was on a payment plan to get the car. I was dumping paycheck money into it when I could have been dumping my money into something else. Now the dealership comes along and says it is altering my payment plan. Most of the money I have paid so far doesn't count for anything. But the good news is, I can start a new payment plan and get into the car anyway, for less money than what the other plan cost (except, well, I already paid a lot of money under the old plan).[quote]

In your analogy, the dealership is also giving you more than enough notice for you to complete your current payment plan.

So, you're upset that you're paying the same or less for the car than you originally agreed to pay?

The training time you have spent already is irrelevant.
If less than [New Training Time] remains on your current training queue, finish the old queue.
If more than [New Training Time] remains on your current training queue, decide if the 3 month wait is worth it, and celebrate that you're paying less than you expected.

[quote]There's nothing "still extant and useful" about it. I'm not using the skills for anything. I didn't want them for anything but Orca. It was just a waste. The reason I guess you don't care is, it probably doesn't affect you.

But apparently that is a difficult concept, and whiny give-me-give-me-give-me crybabies deserve to have their hand held, and everything given to them that they want, even if it is a measly 30 days of SP

Finally, my first forum idiot.

Listen moron, I'm no whiny give-me-give-me crybaby. I'm the one arguing for new skillplans to take as long as old ones. I don't want anything given to me on a silver platter. That includes stuff I haven't trained for yet, not just stuff I've sunk a bunch of useless SP into. I want to be sitting in a titan one day. But I don't want it given to me in a day. If it takes a year as things stand right now, I don't want it altered to downwards.

You're just another tool with knee jerk reactions to defend the status quo. Fine by me, but don't call me the whiny crybaby. Go look in the mirror.

Also, hi Ruby. How have you been?

So, you're upset that you're paying the same or less for the car than you originally agreed to pay?

Maybe if there was some way in-game to choose that you were specifically training for Ship A, and they changed the requirements for Ship A while you were training for it, THEN you might be able to get reimbursed. Obviously there is no such mechanism.

The people here seem to be masochists who enjoy experiencing pain. Fine, I didn't come here looking for a fight, and I didn't come here to argue. If people think it's just peachy keen that they can spend weeks throwing SP out the window, fine. It's your game.

I