True.

Only is CCP going to change it, because CCP thinks these skill choices are unnecessary.

Many players knew about the lack of necessity, but accepted it as a part of the requirement for getting into an Orca, or else could they not have gotten into it. There was simply no choice for them.

The reason for why a reimbursement should be given is not just because a few players want it, this sure will always be the case when skills change, but because CCP is making this change and it invalidates players' skill choices of the past.

I am sure many Orca pilots will have trained Exhumers I in addition just to profit from this in their own way. These players should not get a reimbursement as they not only accepted it but used it for further training. Only those who did not should be allowed to reallocate some of their skill points. It is likely a very small group of people and also the reason why the discussion on this is largely biased, because most of who post here will not be part of this group.

So let me get this straight for future reference. When training a skill, I am supposed to magically know that sometime in the future they will remove requirements for the skill which I don't want, will be useless to me, and will be no benefit to me, yet I am forced to train those requirements that I don't have use for anyway when training this skill.

They had no choice if they wanted to get into an Orca.

Still it is quite impossible to decide who has benefited from training the barge V (from those who haven't trained exhumers), and probably that's why CCP made the choice of not reimbursing anyone.

"I was forced to train something I didn't want" is really just bullshit. If having barge V really bugs people that much, then why train it.

But people accept this just fine... until the rug is pulled out and the rules are changed.

Saying someone has an entitled attitude when they played by the rules given them by CCP is what is bullshit.

No rug is being pulled out. They have exactly the benefits they wanted at the price they thought were fair.

What I find funny is all this pseudo-libertarian combined with Business 101 vernacular people keep throwing around - terms like "you had a choice," and "sunk costs." It all sounds like it was written by the same exact person using a bunch of different alts.

Well two can play at that game. For all you people getting reimbursed for destroyer and cruiser skills and what not, I say it shouldn't happen. YOU HAD A CHOICE to train into that stuff. YOU MADE THAT CHOICE. AND YOU BENEFITED. IT'S A SUNK COST. You should have no complaints.

Of course you will say it is different because the skills are being removed. But that's not the point. The point is to address your usage of all this dumb phraseology you keep throwing at me like "choice" and "benefit" blah blah. Quit using it - it doesn't work.

How can the price that other people might pay for something, at a different time than when you paid for that thing, have any possible effect on your decision making? In other words, do you throw a fit when milk goes on sale the day after you buy a gallon, or do you sit down and have a glass?

...
Well two can play at that game. For all you people getting reimbursed for destroyer and cruiser skills and what not, I say it shouldn't happen. YOU HAD A CHOICE to train into that stuff. YOU MADE THAT CHOICE. AND YOU BENEFITED. IT'S A SUNK COST. You should have no complaints.

The point is to address your usage of all this dumb phraseology you keep throwing at me like "choice" and "benefit" blah blah. Quit using it - it doesn't work.

Yup, so no reimbursement for cruisers or anything else. They wanted to train it, they trained it because there was a benefit, and they got that benefit at the price they were willing to pay.

I think it is a dumb question. There are totally different sets of rules and assumptions about real world economies than the situation in Eve when you have a "God" so to speak (CCP) controlling the universe and making up rules as they go. Many people accept the rules of supply and demand in a free market, and tolerate some level of price fluctuation. Then again, others don't, and prefer to live under price controls.

There are other things I could bring up to counter your position. For instance, is it acceptable for me to charge more for milk to a black person than, say, a white? If you say no, I could use all the same logic you use above, invoke choice, invoke "how does the price paid by one person at one time affect the decision the other person made to buy at another time" blah blah.

EDIT: Question - would it be acceptable to you if CCP implemented a system where members of the SniggWaffe were charged more for everything (skills, goods, services, etc) than everyone else? If no, why not? After all, you could always use your freedom of choice to pay or not to pay. If you pay, you will benefit. And why does the price someone else pays have any bearing on your situation?

See how that works?

GǪand if they did, they benefited from it, so there's no reason for them to ask for reimbursement.

They did not benefit from Mining Barges V. The skill is a time sink and it gives no bonuses to the ship. Or try explaining why the skill is now being removed from the path when (to you) it has a benefit.

Still gives them the skills and bonuses.

No, it's not wasted. No, you won't be reimbursed. No, you shouldn't be reimbursed. Yes, you should get over it.

So why remove it now when to you it is of a benefit?!

It is just to you of a benefit but nobody else.

With a reimbursement can you put your points back into Mining Barges V, thereby disagree with CCP's decision and benefit from it in your own way.

They did not benefit from Mining Barges V.

Or try explaining why the skill is now being removed from the path when (to you) it has a benefit.

Bad comparison again. The only difference between people buying the ability to fly an Orca is a temporal one.

You chose to incur the cost of flying an orca (the same cost as everyone else is faced with) at the time you chose it. The fact that, at another time, you might be able to pay a different cost is irrelevant.

When you chose to train for an Orca, did you believe that flying the Orca was worth the ~40d training time?

If Yes, The only effect the change will have on you is to either reduce your training time or leave it unchanged. Why does that make you unhappy?

It's obvious. I wasted a lot of time and SP because of a decision by CCP to change the tech tree. That time and SP could have gone into something else. I could have been into battleships. I could have trained up market trading or whatever. There are lots of things I could have done. The SP was flushed down the toilet.

If I had known that CCP was going to do this, I would never have started training Orca. I would have waited until after they changed the tech tree, and then trained Orca.

If you want the answer to why that makes me unhappy, go into your skill queue and stop all training right now. Leave it paused for a month. Then see how happy or unhappy you are after that month. Then you will have your answer.

You still don't seem to understand the difference between objectively useless SP/no SP and you personally just not liking the skill.

I have a number of skills that I dont use. Doesnt mean they are useless however because they still work.

We only get a reimbusment if the skills and the bonuses they give are removed.

Because the progression makes more sense this way. People who have trained the skill still benefit from it.

Nobody forced them to train for an Orca. In fact many people who probably will train for an Orca after the change purposefully did NOT train it up before hand due to the load of other skills required... because they preferred not to train the other skills that they would likely never use on that character.

Training for an Orca was a voluntary decision.
Not putting the other skills to use that you had to train is a voluntary decision.
The abilities those skills give your character has not changed.
If you did train for an Orca, you will be able to do exactly every single thing you could do before, you have lost nothing.

And therefore should they get a reimbursement, because it makes more sense and allows them to continue to benefit from it.

Then CCP would have to reimburse every single person that was ever affected by a non-removed skill change that has ever happened ever. Maybe CCP should reimburse all the skills I've had to train to fly supers that don't actually benefit me... No.

You still don't seem to understand the difference between objectively useless SP/no SP and you personally just not liking the skill.

I think the technical term is "bait and switch."

You don't seem to understand the difference between CCP mandating that some pay significantly more SP for things than others.

Doesn't anyone find this kind of thing totally immersion breaking? How are we supposed to interpret these kind of changes?

You don't seem to understand the difference between CCP mandating that some pay significantly more SP for things than others.

Why and when we get a reimbursement is up to CCP.

And therefore should they get a reimbursement, because it makes more sense and allows them to continue to benefit from it.