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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
HollyShocker 2inthestink
State War Academy
Caldari State
177
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Posted - 2013.03.19 01:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
Dev soundwave wrote.
"Yeah my point is that I don't think they should be profitable to gank. I think it should be possible, but not necessarily profitable (profitable might be the wrong word, but more that the expenses should be higher for the attacker than the defender)."
What is everyones opinion? |
Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
1374
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Posted - 2013.03.19 01:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
Insofar as the ganker can figure out how to make it profitable, yes.
E: Also, that quote is out of context, there's a "they" that isn't clear in the first sentence.
I support Malcanis and Psychotic Monk for CSM8. |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
1087
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Posted - 2013.03.19 01:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
And in a moment's notice you will have 50+ pages of the same few people going back and forth over this topic.
It's like the cheapest troll there is. It's basically just opening the cargo bays and all the fish in the area jump into it on their own. Just the fish is already rotten and riddled with cancer and disease and heavy metals and radioactive isotopes.
Mining Overhaul
Nothing changed since 2008. |
Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
1374
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Posted - 2013.03.19 01:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:It's like the cheapest troll there is.
That's all OP will ever amount to.
I support Malcanis and Psychotic Monk for CSM8. |
Alara IonStorm
4654
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Posted - 2013.03.19 01:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
I don't think Ganking a ship that has a tank should be profitable. However Ganking a ship with a strong tank but a valuable cargo should be.
Management of tank to wealth of cargo ratio should be an important factor and certain ships like T1 Industrials should not be safe reward wise while caring valuable items above their strength and instead should require skill time and money or fall to people with skill into stronger haulers.
Ganking is your reminder to use the right types of ships for the right jobs with the proper fit. Otherwise people will profit by taking your overstuffed wallet off your bullet ridden corpse. |
Azami Nevinyrall
Carbon Circle
Tactical Narcotics Team
740
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Posted - 2013.03.19 01:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
Yes...
/thread
I'm not entirely clear on the point of this, but I do have a sudden urge to jump in a catalyst and blow up a miner.
Twitter! - @AzamiNevinyrall
I'm half expecting a ban for this post. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe
YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2985
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Posted - 2013.03.19 01:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote:Dev soundwave wrote.
"Yeah my point is that I don't think they should be profitable to gank. I think it should be possible, but not necessarily profitable (profitable might be the wrong word, but more that the expenses should be higher for the attacker than the defender)."
What is everyones opinion?
First, cite your sources. Especially when you're amputating context.
Second, He was specifically talking about Exhumers when he said that. And while I disagree with his thesis (that fitted, AFK, and untanked Exhumers shouldn't be profitable to gank*), the Exhumer buff has largely put to rest the for-profit Exhumer ganking venture.
Third, since (judging from another thread) you seem to think that all ships should be unprofitable to gank, why do you feel that my Freighter should gain EHP proportional to the amount of valuable stuff I put into it?
*Because if a fitted, AFK, but untanked Exhumer isn't likely to be ganked, why in the world would you bother being ATK or fitting a Tank?
This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1223
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Posted - 2013.03.19 01:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ganking shouldn't always be profitable.
It /should/ be profitable, when someone's done their research and picked their target appropriately.
Ganking Exhumers probably won't be profitable. At least not if the exhumer pilot has a clue what they're doing. If they're an idiot who doesn't have any tank (small shield booster doesn't count) then sure. Though profit is iffy. Not a huge amount to get a profit from with it.
Steve Ronuken for CSM 8
Handy tools and SDE conversions
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Theron Vetrus
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
25
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Posted - 2013.03.19 02:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote:What is everyones opinion?
My opinion is, if there were a poster child for carebears, you would be it.
Take what you can, give nothing back.
I'm looking for a pirate corp
Psychotic Monk for CSM8 |
GreenSeed
250
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Posted - 2013.03.19 02:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
by ganking not being profitable hes obviously talking about 2 catalysts killing a 200m barge and salvaging looting it for a profit. even if the barge is fitted with meta crap it will still make the gank a profit, thats not ok. hes not talking about blowing up a fail faction fit tengu thats sitting afk at a gate. that's a good gank, with planning and coordination, plus a lot of work to check the fit and find a target.
by just making gank targets drop a can only and no wreck mission runners still drop all the goodies, while barges don't drop t2 salvage. |
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
Cosmic Consortium
3204
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Posted - 2013.03.19 02:49:00 -
[11] - Quote
Why shouldn't it be profitable to gank a Tengu carrying officer fittings?
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Olf Barrenbur
Guardians of Asceticism
15
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Posted - 2013.03.19 03:02:00 -
[12] - Quote
GreenSeed wrote:by ganking not being profitable hes obviously talking about 2 catalysts killing a 200m barge and salvaging looting it for a profit. even if the barge is fitted with meta crap it will still make the gank a profit, thats not ok. hes not talking about blowing up a fail faction fit tengu thats sitting afk at a gate. that's a good gank, with planning and coordination, plus a lot of work to check the fit and find a target.
by just making gank targets drop a can only and no wreck mission runners still drop all the goodies, while barges don't drop t2 salvage.
Tough to gank a T2 barge with only 2 catas profitably, friend. It will have to be completely untanked and in a low enough security system (min 0.6) to allow enough volleys to land. It's just too easy to fit a tank on a Hulk/Mac/Skiff and prevent this scenario (mid slots/rigs??). It definitely is ok to learn the hard way, even if its only 2 catalysts teaching them.
They'll only get ganked once, then they'll learn to EVE. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe
YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2987
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Posted - 2013.03.19 03:17:00 -
[13] - Quote
GreenSeed wrote:by ganking not being profitable hes obviously talking about 2 catalysts killing a 200m barge and salvaging looting it for a profit. even if the barge is fitted with meta crap it will still make the gank a profit, thats not ok.
Why should a untanked but otherwise fully fit ship not be profitable to gank?
I've never gotten a good, straight answer for that question.
PS. An untanked, fitted (guns and damage mods) Zealot is still profitable to gank.
This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Alara IonStorm
4656
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Posted - 2013.03.19 03:26:00 -
[14] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:
Why should a untanked but otherwise fully fit ship not be profitable to gank?
I've never gotten a good, straight answer for that question.
I never liked the Procurer and Skiff update for this reason. I said that they should have gotten 150-250 Grid for Large Shield Extenders instead of base huge HP so people would have to fit the tank.
I also wished that the Covetor and Retriever got 3 Mids or the same T1 to T2 Slot Ratio as the Procurer to the Skiff to fit a small tank + min scanner.
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
Cosmic Consortium
3205
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Posted - 2013.03.19 03:52:00 -
[15] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:I never liked the Procurer and Skiff update for this reason. I said that they should have gotten 150-250 Grid for Large Shield Extenders instead of base huge HP so people would have to fit the tank.
Yup. EVE design philosophy should be about giving pilots enough rope to hang themselves.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
NightCrawler 85
Phoibe Enterprises
Project Wildfire
322
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Posted - 2013.03.19 03:58:00 -
[16] - Quote
Yes and no.
If someone is flying around with **** plexes in an untanked hauled on AP, well yea that should be profitable and potentially the AFK pilot will learn a lesson (or more likely just rage quit).
But for ganking miners..No this should not be profitable. Please note im not saying im against ganking barges and similar, but it should be for a reason beyond "ohh shiny". Weather or not its the "tears" as people put it, because its marco miners, or some other reason that can make it..play more into the story of EVE (like defending "your" belts, cutting down on competition or you just dont like the name of that corp and you want to harass them).
For the hauler it takes work and dediction to find a suitable target and people should be rewarded for their effort.
For the barges.. Well go to the closest ice belt and have fun! Not much work requiered thus a player should have a... deeper reason beyond the ISK value to see those barges dead.
But thats just my opinion, and since i have never done this my self there might be something im missing or have not considered.
Phoibe Enterprises official recruitment thread
The Eve Reader - -áAudio Recordings of Eve Chronicles
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Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
706
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Posted - 2013.03.19 04:01:00 -
[17] - Quote
As a ganker, I'm gonna say yes. |
Raiz Nhell
Kangaroo Ate my baby
Orchestrated Alliance
241
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Posted - 2013.03.19 04:17:00 -
[18] - Quote
Last time I checked it was the Gankee not the Ganker that made a gank profitable...
If your dumb and you carry too much stuff... you should always be open to a gank...
You put Cal Navy Invuls on a Mack... of course someone is going to shoot you...
Plex in that noobship... its going to disappear in a rapidly expanding cloud of high energy particles...
Even The New Order get profit from their ganks... they get the warm and fuzzy feeling of steering the miner away from the path that leads to botdom...
There is no such thing as a fair fight...
If your fighting fair you have automatically put yourself at a disadvantage. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific
Initiative Mercenaries
1489
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Posted - 2013.03.19 04:18:00 -
[19] - Quote
Of course the correct answer is "if the pilot of the ship in question is stupid, then yes". Why should a frieighter pilot be able to stuff 30 bil worth of stuff (for example) into a scannable ship and not suffer consequences? if it's just a normal ship with normal mods, then no, or course not, but flying shiney stuff and taking no precautions is begging for negative results.
That's what EVE is, consequences for actions. When EVE stops allowing playuers to punish other players for being stupid ANYWHERE including high sec, it' stops being EVE Online and starts being damn near every other video game ever. If people want that that's fine, but they don't belong in EVE.
No matter how much i play games, i will never ever understand people's reactions to imagninary losses of pixels.... |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
Cosmic Consortium
3206
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Posted - 2013.03.19 04:59:00 -
[20] - Quote
Galaxy Pig wrote:As a ganker, I'm gonna say yes.
As a miner, mission-runner and general hisec carebear, I also say yes.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
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Silvara Nocturn
Nocturn Industries
14
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Posted - 2013.03.19 05:59:00 -
[21] - Quote
Ganking should be profitable if you have a brain. It should not be free lunch money. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
1085
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Posted - 2013.03.19 07:35:00 -
[22] - Quote
This is a new and never before discussed topic in Eve.
So many new and interesting viewpoints to consider.
Thank you.
This is not a signature. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13286
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Posted - 2013.03.19 07:39:00 -
[23] - Quote
Of course it should be profitable to gank loot pi+¦atas (loot pi+¦ata being defined as any ship that carries more equipment or cargo than its tank can really protect).
GǪand no, cost does not, and should not, affect how easy something is to kill. It's been tried. It failed, as expected.
Vote Malcanis for CSM8. |
Dave Stark
2053
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Posted - 2013.03.19 07:44:00 -
[24] - Quote
only if that profit comes from cargo.
Want miners to move from high sec to null sec?
Then give them a reason to join player corps, and stop null sec grav sites being worth less isk/hour than high sec asteroid belts.
Really isn't difficult. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13286
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Posted - 2013.03.19 07:47:00 -
[25] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:only if that profit comes from cargo.
Why? What difference does it make where on the ship the loot comes from?
Vote Malcanis for CSM8. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe
YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2989
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Posted - 2013.03.19 07:48:00 -
[26] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:only if that profit comes from cargo.
[Ibis, Not Cargo: must be safe]
Draclira's Modified Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Draclira's Modified Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Estamel's Modified Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Estamel's Modified Adaptive Invulnerability Field
True Sansha Small Energy Neutralizer
True Sansha Small Energy Neutralizer
This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
8211
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Posted - 2013.03.19 08:03:00 -
[27] - Quote
HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote:Dev soundwave wrote.
"Yeah my point is that I don't think they should be profitable to gank. I think it should be possible, but not necessarily profitable (profitable might be the wrong word, but more that the expenses should be higher for the attacker than the defender)."
What is everyones opinion?
Maybe it shouldn't be profitable to gank properly fitted, actively pilot ships. But nothing in EVE should be balanced around untanked ships and especially not around AFKing.
Vote for Malcanis for CSM8
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
618
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Posted - 2013.03.19 08:28:00 -
[28] - Quote
In Eve everyone should have the opportunity to get successful with his business model. Not everyone is able to gank profitable but if you know how you can earn the one or the other isk. If you are solo you-¦d need quite a few alts but CCP likes people with multiple accounts because they mean money.
"Also, your boobs  " -á
CCP Eterne, 2012
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monkfish2345
D'reg
The Methodical Alliance
34
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Posted - 2013.03.19 09:30:00 -
[29] - Quote
it's fairly straightforward there are pretty much 2 reasons which 'should' leading to killings in high sec.
1) ship is carrying very valuable stuffs in a way that makes it vulnerable
2) the pilot is an enemy of yours.
the problem is the second point should come under war dec'd targets, but with plain ganking so isk efficient there is little to no reason to pay to have a war created. another result of this is that you can deem anybody to be a target.
All that said ships getting blown up is good news and helps the economy. and for players that fit ships properly there is little to no risk.
it's pretty much the same as everything in eve, if you are/act stupid, expect to become a target. |
Domina Trix
McKNOBBLER DRINKING CLAN
19
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Posted - 2013.03.19 09:44:00 -
[30] - Quote
HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote:Dev soundwave wrote.
"Yeah my point is that I don't think they should be profitable to gank. I think it should be possible, but not necessarily profitable (profitable might be the wrong word, but more that the expenses should be higher for the attacker than the defender)."
What is everyones opinion?
It is the player being ganked that determines whether or not it is profitable to gank them, not CCP. A low value ship, fittings and cargo is far less likely to be ganked than a pimped out ship carrying BPOs. That assumes that the purpose of the ganking is for profit though because there is more than one reason to gank someone without wardeccing them first.
Two of the defining characteristics of a carebear are wanting other players to play the way the carebear wants and whining on the forums for the game to change when they don't. Yet I see more threads on these forums from gankers than I do miners whining about wanting the game changed to suit them. |
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