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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |

Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
366
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Posted - 2013.03.21 18:19:00 -
[331] - Quote
HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote:
No this point has been stated and is common knowledge that if you engage in hi-sec Concord comes and destroys the low cost minimal effort high dps ships used to kill the high value mission fit billion isk ship.
Yes ships should be able to be ganked but they should not yield a profit. The cost should be greater for the ganker as it would still allow to gank for revenge or spite just not profit. Just as it is now with the retriever.
But the retriever is in no way similar to a "high value mission fit billion isk ship". The equivalent is a T2 fit T1 battleship, which are extremely unprofitable to gank. If you want to bling your ship out, of course its going to be profitable to gank. |

Runeme Shilter
New Order Logistics CODE.
65
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 18:24:00 -
[332] - Quote
Takseen wrote:But the retriever is in no way similar to a "high value mission fit billion isk ship". The equivalent is a T2 fit T1 battleship, which are extremely unprofitable to gank. If you want to bling your ship out, of course its going to be profitable to gank.
A ship built for battle and combat is more resilient than a ship built for mining? Surely that must be wrong. |

Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
366
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Posted - 2013.03.21 18:25:00 -
[333] - Quote
And on freighter ganks, it seems obvious from browsing freighter kills that the ones targetted are the pilots/couriers who just hit Ctrl-A in their station hanger and throw it all into the freighter/courier contract. If they split out the deadspace mods and other low size/high cost modules, the risk of ganking would be much less. |

Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
366
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Posted - 2013.03.21 18:27:00 -
[334] - Quote
Runeme Shilter wrote:Takseen wrote:But the retriever is in no way similar to a "high value mission fit billion isk ship". The equivalent is a T2 fit T1 battleship, which are extremely unprofitable to gank. If you want to bling your ship out, of course its going to be profitable to gank. A ship built for battle and combat is more resilient than a ship built for mining? Surely that must be wrong.
Given how often mining ships explode, its no wonder ORE retrofit them with more tank. |

Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
19
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Posted - 2013.03.21 18:29:00 -
[335] - Quote
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
The whole problem with your argument or the other guy's is this. How is it balance when the gankers risk nothing?
Your various ganking pets, like CODE, don't care about losing isk. Which makes it obvious they are being supplied by the endless moon-goo faucet. When there are no risks to the ganker, and he loses nothing, ganking becomes a meaningless sport, with mostly new players taking the brunt of it.
Right. That's the problem with ganking and profitability. The null sec isk fountain. How else could anyone possibly get the money to put together a 2-10 Mil catalyst and go throw it away for lulz without caring about how they will secure the loot and salvage to make it "risk free".
Oh wait! one page back, there was an interesting post.
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: In the end I made up a ship netting me 100M+ per hour doing L4 while it costed below 1B and it'd cost several billions if I just went the "basic carebear-I-buy-the-bling" way.
Have been scanned several times, nobody ever bothered to gank it despite the multiple deadspace and faction mods.
An hour's "work" under CONCORD'S free protection, with a 0% tax rate 1 man alt corp nets enough ISK for 10-50 ganks. Clearly you need to be a Goon puppet to throw away a catalyst.
PS: Real men gank exhumers for lulz in T3 Battlecruisers |

Estella Osoka
Deep Void Merc Syndicate Villore Accords
65
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Posted - 2013.03.21 18:31:00 -
[336] - Quote
Ganking is profitable if you do it right. What's the problem?
Robbers don't target poor people they go after the rich. Use a scan ship, scan the ship and cargo, if it has valuable fittings or cargo, set up to gank it. This is what the gankers in Uedama do. Sometimes the loot fairy will be kind, sometimes not. After all you are basically blowing up the car and hoping the parts/cargo are still salvageable. |

Jonah Gravenstein
Khalkotauroi Defence Labs
6774
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Posted - 2013.03.21 18:31:00 -
[337] - Quote
Takseen wrote: Given how often mining ships explode, its no wonder ORE retrofit them with more tank.
Given the amount of whining that occurs when a mining ship explodes you'd think that they were exploding at a prodigious rate, yet CCP have stated that the explosion of mining vessels is at a historical low.
Eve in a nutshell, it's you vs the universe, and every machiavellian space bastard in it. |

Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
1390
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 18:33:00 -
[338] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote:Abrazzar wrote:It's like the cheapest troll there is. That's all OP will ever amount to. Still apropos. I support Malcanis and Psychotic Monk for CSM8. |

Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
20
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Posted - 2013.03.21 18:40:00 -
[339] - Quote
Tippia wrote:HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote:Yes ships should be able to be ganked but they should not yield a profit. The cost should be greater for the ganker as it would still allow to gank for revenge or spite just not profit. Why? Why shouldn't it be possible to profit from robbing people of their valuables? Also, how on earth are you going to enforce that to make sure that what is required to kill a ship depends entirely on the value of what the victim is carrying, rather than on the stats of what he has fitted? Well clearly magical CONCORD should arrive seconds before the target dies every time, loot all the wrecks on grid, salvage them, and contract it all to the pod pilot who got ganked. Duh. And faction/deadspace/officer loot should always survive criminal attacks in high sec while at it. Thanks to a new "high tech" CONCORD system wide damage control projector. |

Velicitia
Arma Artificer
1275
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 18:44:00 -
[340] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
What you describe is not exactly ISK tanking. ISK tanking would be paying to survive (reactive process)
Putting below 1B on a freighter is a proactive and complimentary process, that is you choose not to enable a fat "Target Painter" on your ship.
Fair enough -- I've always thought of "Tanking" as proactive rather than reactive ...  One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia Malcanis for CSM8 |
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Whitehound
1336
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Posted - 2013.03.21 18:44:00 -
[341] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Takseen wrote: Given how often mining ships explode, its no wonder ORE retrofit them with more tank.
Given the amount of whining that occurs when a mining ship explodes you'd think that they were exploding at a prodigious rate, yet CCP have stated that the explosion of mining vessels is at a historical low. Who remembers the initial version of the Doomsday Device? It was an AoE weapon that wiped out entire subcap fleets.
What did the players do about it? They cried about it.
What did CCP do? No, they did not tell the players to HTFU. They changed it quickly.
So whatever arguments players might have will crying about it do, too. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13348
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Posted - 2013.03.21 18:47:00 -
[342] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Who remembers the initial version of the Doomsday Device? It was an AoE weapon that wiped out entire subcap fleets.
What did the players do about it? They cried about it.
What did CCP do? No, they did not tell the players to HTFU. They changed it quickly. Not really. It took them a loooong while to change it, and it didn't happen until it was shown to be massively out of line as a result of supercap proliferation, ot the point where chain-DDDs were wiping out capfleets. Vote Malcanis for CSM8. |

Primary This Rifter
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
16
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Posted - 2013.03.21 18:48:00 -
[343] - Quote
Stating that something is overpowered when it is is definitely not the same as "crying about it". Yes, I'm an alt. Congratulations. |

Whitehound
1336
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 18:51:00 -
[344] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:...stuff... All right, all right. Not meaning to take candy from you.  Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |

Velicitia
Arma Artificer
1275
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 18:55:00 -
[345] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Velicitia wrote:I'm pretty sure you messed something up somewhere in your arguments.
"ISK Tanking" is mostly only relevant in hisec... to the point where a freighter has a "1 bil ISK Tank" -- i.e. you throw stuff that collectively is worth more than a billion into it, and you're suddenly a juicy suicide gank target... No. The expression "ISK Tanking" describes the relationship of a ship's tank and a ship's cost. This relationship is proportional, non-linear and existent. What it is not is non-existent, anti-proportional, linear or random. And it has got nothing to do with sec. status.
I've never seen "ISK Tank' used in a way as to refer to the cost of the ship. One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia Malcanis for CSM8 |

baltec1
Bat Country
5683
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 18:56:00 -
[346] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Primary This Rifter wrote:...stuff... All right, all right. 
What they say is true. Titans were DDing dread fleets out of the sky, it was impossible to fight them. |

Jonah Gravenstein
Khalkotauroi Defence Labs
6774
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 18:57:00 -
[347] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Takseen wrote: Given how often mining ships explode, its no wonder ORE retrofit them with more tank.
Given the amount of whining that occurs when a mining ship explodes you'd think that they were exploding at a prodigious rate, yet CCP have stated that the explosion of mining vessels is at a historical low. Who remembers the initial version of the Doomsday Device? It was an AoE weapon that wiped out entire subcap fleets. What did the players do about it? They cried about it. What did CCP do? No, they did not tell the players to HTFU. They changed it quickly. So whatever arguments players might have will crying about it do, too.
Could you have possibly posted a more irrelevant reply to the quote?
The fact of the matter is that mining vessels are exploding less than they have at any time in the past, yet people are still whining about the rate at which they explode, generally because the gankee expects to leave a 150,000,000+ isk ship unattended, without taking any precautions at all to protect it while they're not there.
Doomsday devices and titans have absolutely no relevance to the topic at hand, unless you're into suicide ganking titans.
Stay on topic please.
Eve in a nutshell, it's you vs the universe, and every machiavellian space bastard in it. |

Whitehound
1336
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 19:00:00 -
[348] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:I've never seen "ISK Tank' used in a way as to refer to the cost of the ship. Here in EVE have seen it only as such, when players say their ship was expensive and so it should also tank well.
I have seen other forms of it, too. One particular one was in the RPG Sacred, where an armor attribute turned damage into cost. x% of the incoming damage was then absorbed and instead taken as gold out of your stash. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |

Velicitia
Arma Artificer
1275
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 19:01:00 -
[349] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Whitehound wrote:Who remembers the initial version of the Doomsday Device? It was an AoE weapon that wiped out entire subcap fleets.
What did the players do about it? They cried about it.
What did CCP do? No, they did not tell the players to HTFU. They changed it quickly. Not really. It took them a loooong while to change it, and it didn't happen until it was shown to be massively out of line as a result of supercap proliferation, ot the point where chain-DDDs were wiping out capfleets.
wasn't the ORIGINAL DDD able to be set off remotely (via cyno or something?) One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia Malcanis for CSM8 |

Velicitia
Arma Artificer
1275
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 19:03:00 -
[350] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Velicitia wrote:I've never seen "ISK Tank' used in a way as to refer to the cost of the ship. Here in EVE have seen it only as such, when players say their ship was expensive and so it should also tank well.
that's called "being wrong".
Just because I dropped 200m on a cruiser doesn't mean it should tank like a BS. One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia Malcanis for CSM8 |
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Whitehound
1336
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Posted - 2013.03.21 19:04:00 -
[351] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:What they say is true. Titans were DDing dread fleets out of the sky, it was impossible to fight them. Sure it is true. I was not trying to tell a lie. Just making a point after Jonah Gravenstein needed to comment on players' whining. Now he wants me to stay on topic...  Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |

Whitehound
1336
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 19:05:00 -
[352] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:that's called "being wrong".
Just because I dropped 200m on a cruiser doesn't mean it should tank like a BS. You are not really making a point. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
2059

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Posted - 2013.03.21 19:07:00 -
[353] - Quote
Thread temporarily locked for a cleaning. Please pardon our dust. ISD Dorrim Barstorlode Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Jonah Gravenstein
Khalkotauroi Defence Labs
6776
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 19:44:00 -
[354] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:baltec1 wrote:What they say is true. Titans were DDing dread fleets out of the sky, it was impossible to fight them. Sure it is true. I was not trying to tell a lie. Just making a point after Jonah Gravenstein needed to comment on players' whining. Now he wants me to stay on topic... 
Bizarrely enough I was on topic, people whine about suicide ganking and say that it shouldn't be profitable.
Eve in a nutshell, it's you vs the universe, and every machiavellian space bastard in it. |

Whitehound
1336
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 19:48:00 -
[355] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Whitehound wrote:baltec1 wrote:What they say is true. Titans were DDing dread fleets out of the sky, it was impossible to fight them. Sure it is true. I was not trying to tell a lie. Just making a point after Jonah Gravenstein needed to comment on players' whining. Now he wants me to stay on topic...  Bizarrely enough I was on topic, people whine about suicide ganking and say that it shouldn't be profitable. But what is the point of saying people whine about it? Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |

Jonah Gravenstein
Khalkotauroi Defence Labs
6777
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 19:52:00 -
[356] - Quote
Did you actually read the OP with its edited and out of context CCP quote? The OP is a stealth whine from someone who thinks that it shouldn't be.
Eve in a nutshell, it's you vs the universe, and every machiavellian space bastard in it. |

Whitehound
1336
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 20:01:00 -
[357] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Did you actually read the OP with its edited and out of context CCP quote? The OP is a stealth whine from someone who thinks that it shouldn't be. Yes, I did.
Do you want to tell me now the relevance this make on the topic or shall we just leave it out? I am fine with accepting whines (and as long as I am not required to join in). Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |

Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
817
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 20:11:00 -
[358] - Quote
Whitehouse posting about relevance...the irony is crushing. Reading the EVEO forums is like huffing gas or sniffing glue. Sure it's funny and you get high, but you pay a terrible, terrible price in the long run. |

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
3966
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 20:19:00 -
[359] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Quote:The other problem is Freighters, CCP put cheap new ganking ships into the game, but didn't bother to consider the long term ramifications. Freighters are meant to carry lots of stuff, yet you can't really use them for that anymore. Since all it takes is a measly 2 bil to make you a gank target, Freighters are useless except for hauling worthless cargos. Freighters are for hauling bulky cargo, not stuffing full of bling that you'd be better off carrying in a blockade runner, transport ship or Orca. In the time it takes a freighter to make one trip another ship will have probably made 3 or 4. The ships required to gank a freighter aren't exactly cheap, given the amount of ships required. A tier 3 BC full fitted and used for ganking is easily double the price of a BC used for PVE, and it's guaranteed to explode, courtesy of Concord.
There's one interesting empty ship niche right now. What about bulky stuff that also happens to be valuable?
I had to ferry some less than 100B worth of T2 materials and I assure you what saved my day was using a trusty (still unscannable at that time) Orca.
As of today it'd be a fairly daunting task, there's no ship that can be modded to tank for 10B or so value per trip (still taking 10 trips). Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |

Whitehound
1336
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Posted - 2013.03.21 20:34:00 -
[360] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote:Whitehouse posting about relevance...the irony is crushing. Are you talking about Obama? Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
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