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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Pelea Ming
Prostitutes Are Always Wlling
10
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Posted - 2013.03.24 18:46:00 -
[271] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Pelea Ming wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Pelea Ming wrote:Rebecha Pucontis wrote:Who made you the forum police? You just ruined the fun I was having. because I want to actually read stuff about Odessy that's actually relevant, and filling the thread up with all this simply means there is that much more trash to sort through. then click the link in the op. congratulations, you've read all the current information on odessy. There is also the point of commentary that may be useful to the Devs, suggestions about the content by players, and them having to sort through all of this other crap simply means it's less likely they will recieve that. and the discussion we were having about dumbing down scanning isn't relevant or useful to the devs?
the 2 of you had rather ceased to discuss that and were simply going back to what was obviously an old long standing argument between the two of you. And at this point I am going to cease replying to your attempts to instead move on to an argument with me about it as I am not trying to fill this thread up with irrelevancies either. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3819
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 19:14:00 -
[272] - Quote
The whole issue of scanning covers a lot of ground, and frankly changes ARE needed. I don't know too many people that don't think that scanning currently is an extremely tedious task, with little (if any) fun or excitement involved.
Frankly, some scanning should be automatic. Within a certain range of your ship your sensors should pick up other ships or anomalies without clicking continuously on D Scan. It is also a first step in giving a workable solution to the problem of local being an intelligence tool to determine the presence in system of someone who chooses not to broadcast their location via coms chatter.
Other forms of scanning should require some basic level of voluntary interaction, such as scanning for a particular type of thing in a system or scanning for things outside the broad blanket your normal sensor range.
Only the most difficult to find, or purposefully concealed objects should require the use of powerful scanning probes to be deployed around a system. I personally am more a fan of sending out a single probe to a grid (or parsec if you will) of space and the probe moves around that area automatically to gain triangulation (but the process takes longer than it currently does)... and sending out multiple probes allows you to search more area's of space simultaneously. The current speed of probing has removed the viability of long range sniper engagements, and that's a shame.
I don't believe the final system should do away with the need for a certain level of personal skill to be involved for the most difficult tasks, but I do believe the system should be considerably slower when looking for ships or the more difficult signatures while being very easy or automatic for other things. In other words my basic ships sensors should tell me when an enemy fleet is within a couple of light years of warping to my location (I should get a blip), but if that fleet is hiding beside a moon or beside a difficult to find wormhole I need to specifically go looking for them (and it should take a while to get a fix on them). To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
3809
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 19:18:00 -
[273] - Quote
Well.
Since no one has mentioned it, I'll just say I'm blown away by the Odyssey promo image.
I know I've never seen that monolithic stone formation anywhere before. There is much to be said in favour of modern journalism. By giving us the opinions of the uneducated, it keeps us in touch with the ignorance of the community.-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1309
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 19:21:00 -
[274] - Quote
Pelea Ming wrote:Arduemont wrote:Don't get me wrong, I will be happy with whatever I get, because I love the work CCP does... but ... I am disappointed. No mention of a POS rework, and no mention of any Avatar content. The two things two things the community have been asking for most. Quote:So, listening to the feedback from our players GÇö listening to what they're telling us GÇö we've started reintroducing these concepts now Obviously, they haven't been listening. or you weren't paying attention? POS means Player Owned Stations, which is specifically mentioned on that Odessy site.
You are quite correct. I wasn't paying attention. Huzzah for POS reworks. Shame about there being no mention of avatar stuff. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Shadow Lord77
Shadow Industries I
178
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Posted - 2013.03.24 19:21:00 -
[275] - Quote
I like the name it's got a nice ring to it.... "Odyssey".... Odyssey... yeah... |
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
141
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 19:25:00 -
[276] - Quote
Gerard Panala wrote:CCP hasn't done a decent expansion since Apocrypha, why would you think this time will be any different ...
Because they did Apocrypha. |
Pelea Ming
Prostitutes Are Always Wlling
12
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Posted - 2013.03.24 19:32:00 -
[277] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:The whole issue of scanning covers a lot of ground, and frankly changes ARE needed. I don't know too many people that don't think that scanning currently is an extremely tedious task, with little (if any) fun or excitement involved.
Frankly, some scanning should be automatic. Within a certain range of your ship your sensors should pick up other ships or anomalies without clicking continuously on D Scan. It is also a first step in giving a workable solution to the problem of local being an intelligence tool to determine the presence in system of someone who chooses not to broadcast their location via coms chatter.
Other forms of scanning should require some basic level of voluntary interaction, such as scanning for a particular type of thing in a system or scanning for things outside the broad blanket your normal sensor range.
I like the gist of what your saying, though I don't know that an entire fleet should be all that difficult to pin down a location on.
Ranger 1 wrote:Only the most difficult to find, or purposefully concealed objects should require the use of powerful scanning probes to be deployed around a system. I personally am more a fan of sending out a single probe to a grid (or parsec if you will) of space and the probe moves around that area automatically to gain triangulation (but the process takes longer than it currently does)... and sending out multiple probes allows you to search more area's of space simultaneously. The current speed of probing has removed the viability of long range sniper engagements, and that's a shame.
I do like the idea of large enough celestial objects causing interference is rather a cool thought :)
Ranger 1 wrote:I don't believe the final system should do away with the need for a certain level of personal skill to be involved for the most difficult tasks, but I do believe the system should be considerably slower when looking for ships or the more difficult signatures while being very easy or automatic for other things. In other words my basic ships sensors should tell me when an enemy fleet is within a couple of light years of warping to my location (I should get a blip), but if that fleet is hiding beside a moon or beside a difficult to find wormhole I need to specifically go looking for them (and it should take a while to get a fix on them).
within certain limitations, I like this too, though part of the reason for individual ships to be scanned down of course is to be able to get to them in time to 'pounce' on them... something of a fine line to walk with this one, once you start thinking of the various reasons TO be scanning a target ship down. |
Pelea Ming
Prostitutes Are Always Wlling
12
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 19:33:00 -
[278] - Quote
Terranid Meester wrote:Gerard Panala wrote:CCP hasn't done a decent expansion since Apocrypha, why would you think this time will be any different ...
Because they did Apocrypha. Vaju Enki wrote:
Crucible, Inferno and Retribution where amazing expansions.
I think Crucible was alright but Inferno + Retribution were fairly mediocre.
meh, this all dissolves down to varying personal opinions, but here's to hoping everyone gets at least something they can particularly enjoy out of the upcoming expansion :) |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
73
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 19:43:00 -
[279] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:The whole issue of scanning covers a lot of ground, and frankly changes ARE needed. I don't know too many people that don't think that scanning currently is an extremely tedious task, with little (if any) fun or excitement involved.
I agree with quite a lot in your post there. But just to pick up on this point, scanning at the basic level is quite boring so I agree with that. But once your skill and knowledge has increased so that you can scan down sites in very little time, picking up a sig becomes akin to getting a head shot in other games in that you get some satisfaction for each one you get. And each one can yield a profitable site which adds the the addictiveness of scanning them down. Personally I find scanning quite relaxing and enjoyable, although maybe I am in the minority here.
Also there are methods which allow you to scan down an entire system of 40 or 50 signatures in under 10 minutes. Mastering these techniques brings even more enjoyment to the system. Also if you have the knowledge you can at a glance recognise what a particular site is likely to be by picking up on the initial signal strength adding a whole new aspect to the system which have been wonderfully covered by some of the great eve explorers.
So saying scanning is boring in a blanket statement, is similar to saying mission running is boring based on running only a level 1 mission.
As for the whole combat probing mechanics, it all adds another dimension in my opinion, and combat probes should be an effective counter to sniper fleets, although maybe at the moment they could tone down the effectiveness.
I just hope CCP are not going to destroy the system they currently have, it is one of the things which actually works really well at the moment.
Adding new and more interesting sites to explore on the other hand, that is certainly something I am in favour of. |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
73
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Posted - 2013.03.24 19:56:00 -
[280] - Quote
On a more important note, did anyone else have a wtf moment when a medieval armoured knight walked past as CCP were giving the Oddysy presentation. :) |
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Dave Stark
2184
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Posted - 2013.03.24 20:03:00 -
[281] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:On a more important note, did anyone else have a wtf moment when a medieval armoured knight walked past as CCP were giving the Oddysy presentation. :)
i didn't even notice it :/ Want miners to move from high sec to null sec? Then give them a reason to join player corps, and stop null sec grav sites being worth less isk/hour than high sec asteroid belts. Really isn't difficult. |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
73
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 20:04:00 -
[282] - Quote
Made me chuckle. :) |
Captain Megadeath
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
74
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 20:24:00 -
[283] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: I know I've never seen that monolithic stone formation anywhere before.
I'm afraid it is in-game at the moment. I am pretty sure I have seen it in a mission or two.
It's in the Okkelen Constellation, The Forge . Sakkikainen IIRC. Part of the caldari COSMOS missions. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
3809
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 20:29:00 -
[284] - Quote
Captain Megadeath wrote:Arduemont wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: I know I've never seen that monolithic stone formation anywhere before.
I'm afraid it is in-game at the moment. I am pretty sure I have seen it in a mission or two. It's in the Okkelen Constellation, The Forge . Sakkikainen IIRC. Part of the caldari COSMOS missions.
Ah thanks.
Have not done those out that way. Been in Ammatar almost 2 years now. There is much to be said in favour of modern journalism. By giving us the opinions of the uneducated, it keeps us in touch with the ignorance of the community.-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde |
Pelea Ming
Prostitutes Are Always Wlling
14
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Posted - 2013.03.24 20:49:00 -
[285] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:On a more important note, did anyone else have a wtf moment when a medieval armoured knight walked past as CCP were giving the Oddysy presentation. :)
Oh, I missed that, I did watch the youtube though, and it made me laugh when you mentioned it :) |
Arronicus
vintas industries Mistakes Were Made.
387
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 21:12:00 -
[286] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:On my Birthday !
Based on past experience, your only birthday present is going to be a "Due to unforseen issues, we are pushing back deployment of the patch one week to June 11th."
ENJOY! |
Dave Stark
2187
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 21:19:00 -
[287] - Quote
Arronicus wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:On my Birthday ! Based on past experience, your only birthday present is going to be a "Due to unforseen issues, we are pushing back deployment of the patch one week to June 11th." ENJOY!
at least he won't have to endure patch day bugs with a hangover. Want miners to move from high sec to null sec? Then give them a reason to join player corps, and stop null sec grav sites being worth less isk/hour than high sec asteroid belts. Really isn't difficult. |
Zeko Rena
ENCOM Industries
76
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 21:20:00 -
[288] - Quote
Well this is kind of good news, after the last expansion I found myself doing some exploration and thinking it would be nice if in a future expansion exploration got an overhaul, not because it is hard, but because it is a little tedious and gets boring quite fast because in the end you just seem to find the same couple of things over and over.
Not going to get my hopes up too much yet though because the details are still so vague, hopefully they don't make it worse. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Resurgent Threat
153
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 22:26:00 -
[289] - Quote
Here's hoping for exploration sites that are worth fighting for. '... you cannot reason with the mining bots, you cannot negotiate with them, you can only bring them judgement in the form of Navy Antimatter, turn their Mackinaws to salvage and dust, smartbomb their pods, and burn their Mining Link implants with sweet incense...'- The Gospel according to St James 315 |
Kethry Avenger
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
53
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 22:43:00 -
[290] - Quote
Cautiously Optimistic.
Looking forward to a Navy Harbinger, and hopefully navy dessies. |
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Pelea Ming
Prostitutes Are Always Wlling
14
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Posted - 2013.03.24 22:53:00 -
[291] - Quote
Kethry Avenger wrote:Cautiously Optimistic.
Looking forward to a Navy Harbinger, and hopefully navy dessies.
I thought CCP at one point had said they weren't ever going to do faction versions of tier 3 hulls? |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
3813
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 23:54:00 -
[292] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Arronicus wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:On my Birthday ! Based on past experience, your only birthday present is going to be a "Due to unforseen issues, we are pushing back deployment of the patch one week to June 11th." ENJOY! at least he won't have to endure patch day bugs with a hangover.
Just for the record, I'm one of those who had to stop drinking. There is much to be said in favour of modern journalism. By giving us the opinions of the uneducated, it keeps us in touch with the ignorance of the community.-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde |
Totalrx
NA No Assholes
88
|
Posted - 2013.03.25 00:26:00 -
[293] - Quote
Odyssey? |
Pelea Ming
Prostitutes Are Always Wlling
15
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Posted - 2013.03.25 00:35:00 -
[294] - Quote
No, in all likely hood, CCP was using the name in it's classic reference, ala Greek mythology one of Homer's works, and if I recall correctly, it's part of his great work (one of history's greatest works of all time) the Illyiad (btw, if I'm wrong it's cause I was too lazy to google about it to confirm before posting this :P) |
Aidan Patrick
Aldebaran Foundation Tauri Federation
41
|
Posted - 2013.03.25 01:32:00 -
[295] - Quote
Pelea Ming wrote:No, in all likely hood, CCP was using the name in it's classic reference, ala Greek mythology one of Homer's works, and if I recall correctly, it's part of his great work (one of history's greatest works of all time) the Illyiad (btw, if I'm wrong it's cause I was too lazy to google about it to confirm before posting this :P)
I'd have to say you've got to be pretty close. Not sure about the specific details on the creators names but I do recall the Odyssey to be a fantastic writing. Hopefully CCP lives up to his example. It wont let me have an empty signature... |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1088
|
Posted - 2013.03.25 03:12:00 -
[296] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:[quote=Ranger 1]
So saying scanning is boring in a blanket statement, is similar to saying mission running is boring based on running only a level 1 mission.
No, it's pretty spot on. Come on, high skills, expensive equipment and implants aside, once you do it a couple of dozen times the mystic is gone. After the umpteenth thousandth time you're ready to give your right testicle if only you didn't have to press f1 x number of times to launch your probes and then have to configure their arrangement by hand. Sure, there are techniques you develop over time of say a couple of months with higher level skills. Beyond that, there's nothing except tedium.
HTFU!...for the children! |
Nitko Koraka
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
5
|
Posted - 2013.03.25 04:42:00 -
[297] - Quote
Dear CCP,
I wanted to say that despite all the bitching and moaning that will come with the announcement of this new expansion I, for one, am extremely excited to see the positive changes that are upcoming. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3821
|
Posted - 2013.03.25 05:32:00 -
[298] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote:Rebecha Pucontis wrote:[quote=Ranger 1]
So saying scanning is boring in a blanket statement, is similar to saying mission running is boring based on running only a level 1 mission. No, it's pretty spot on. Come on, high skills, expensive equipment and implants aside, once you do it a couple of dozen times the mystic is gone. After the umpteenth thousandth time you're ready to give your right testicle if only you didn't have to press f1 x number of times to launch your probes and then have to configure their arrangement by hand. Sure, there are techniques you develop over time of say a couple of months with higher level skills. Beyond that, there's nothing except tedium. As an add on to this, and with all due respect given to those that are highly skilled with the current system, I'll reiterate that a lot of that tedium would be relieved if you didn't have to go through the same steps for every little thing you want to scan down. Some things should be either automatic (ships approaching within a certain range), or at least fairly extensively automated, allowing you to do other things while the scanning is going on. In the case of Dscan clicking it repeatedly is somewhat pointless.
Now for the more difficult targets, hard to detect anomalies or ships actively trying to hide their signatures in various ways, that could easily take existing mechanics a bit further and become a true game of cat and mouse (particularly in the later case). The trick of course to make the process challenging and rewarding, without making it frustrating... and keeping the element of actual personal skill involved instead of just full skills and best equipment... as was pointed out still has a valid place in any modification of the current system. I suppose the emphasis should be on more strategic thinking and less on tweaking and fiddling, if you take my meaning.
We are all familiar with SciFi that involves both automatic sensor sweeps (usually proximity sensors) and also the capability for detailed searching and analysis of a given area... often looking for a specific thing but sometimes just searching for anything out of the ordinary. I think that should be the ultimate goal, it would make sense, be familiar to us, and would be very entertaining. ESPECIALLY if a wide variety of new anomalies, belts, and other stellar phenomena is introduced to keep things varied and interesting. It could also solve several game mechanic issues (sniper fleets being pointless) and perhaps add a deeper strategic level to many fleet engagement.
It might, just might, also enable the ability to warp to specific points in a system without needing to use celestial objects to do so. Other than close tactical bookmarks, all points we warp to (safe spots) are made by creating bookmarks mid way between various celestial objects (often scanned anomalies as well). I'm not sure why, but for some reason I think that we may soon see the ability to pick a set of coordinates and simply warp there. Probably wishful thinking, but I suppose we'll see when more info is released.
To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
73
|
Posted - 2013.03.25 05:40:00 -
[299] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote:Rebecha Pucontis wrote:[quote=Ranger 1]
So saying scanning is boring in a blanket statement, is similar to saying mission running is boring based on running only a level 1 mission. No, it's pretty spot on. Come on, high skills, expensive equipment and implants aside, once you do it a couple of dozen times the mystic is gone. After the umpteenth thousandth time you're ready to give your right testicle if only you didn't have to press f1 x number of times to launch your probes and then have to configure their arrangement by hand. Sure, there are techniques you develop over time of say a couple of months with higher level skills. Beyond that, there's nothing except tedium.
I'm not arguing against some automation in the system, I can just imagine CCP's idea of simplification would be something akin to only needing one probe and simply hitting scan to get a cookie.
Not having to press F1 to launch each individual probe would be great. Also a preset selection of probe formations would be even better. What would be even greater would be if you could customise your own formation and then save and recall them at will. So I'm certainly not disagreeing on those fronts. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
1232
|
Posted - 2013.03.25 05:47:00 -
[300] - Quote
Odyssey theme music.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |
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