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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
851
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 12:11:00 -
[211] - Quote
Firu Issier wrote:Buhhdust Princess wrote:Mr Floydy wrote:Jonas Sukarala wrote:im guessing they all have the command link bonus like T1 ?.... the brutix will surely obsolete the mega same tank almost same slots and much more mobile..... Well the faction Brutix is going to cost a lot more than a Mega. So yes on stats alone it will potentially obsolete a Megathron, you know in the same way that the Proteus has obsoleted pretty much every Gallente ship on the game. I've never seen any Gallente pilot not flying a Proteus. Love the amount of confusion these ships are causing. The amount of completely contrary posts saying these ships are under/over powered is hilarious! The confusion means CCP has done their job correctly. It is almost a perfect balance because noone really knows which way this is going to swing. But....... But....... But....... I want a navy Myrmidon....... Where would/could they go with a Navy Myrmidon? Turret damage bonus with 125Mbps? Would that not step on the Role of the Ishtar, the Eos? Pure Drone ship? That is the Navy Vexor or the Dominix. The Navy Brutix is a very nice ship. Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting |
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
78
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 12:14:00 -
[212] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium the tank on these are as good if not better when sig and mobility are included .. - either nerf T1 bc's tank and then theses navy bc's inline with them or - buff battleships tanks across the board by 25%.
Otherwise why use a bs when a navy bc will do the job better for similar price or less? 'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place..... where is the TD missile change?-á ,...projectiles should use capacitor. |
Bouh Revetoile
TIPIAKS
275
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 12:15:00 -
[213] - Quote
I think the Brutix NI should be 756, and the Harbinger NI 747. Why are amarr and gallente swaping their flavor ? :-(
Also, Myrmidon hull instead of Brutix, unless you turn the Eos into a Myrmidon hull. |
Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
257
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 12:16:00 -
[214] - Quote
Jonas Sukarala wrote:Naomi Knight wrote:Jonas Sukarala wrote:CCP Ytterbium is there not a concern over their tank being better than most battleships? Btw love the brutix its kind of what people want the T1 brutix to be like... also a little concerned the drake will basically replace the old drake .. yes slightly more expensive but null sec alliances are short of isk.. pff so exactly how this will replace the drake? not that the drake is used that much it has lower dmg and tank , for better range and speed ,so pls tell us it has more tank than the raven ......... much better projection and tracking..... heh? nobody said a thing about the raven ,the ship that nobody uses btw 300 dps +drones isnt that great from a bc even if it can fire it up to 90+km |
Shamus O'Reilly
Gungnirs' Point I Know Right
106
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 12:33:00 -
[215] - Quote
Svodola Darkfury wrote:All of these are great, except for this:
The Brutix Faction variant is un-needed. All the other ships are previous Tier 2 ships, and therefore have no Tech 2 variant.
Faction Myrmidon needs to be the Faction choice, as the Brutix faction will suffer in the same way as the Stabber-> Stabber Fleet -> vagabond conundrum.
Svo. and what conundrum would that be?
Stabber = cheap kiter Stabber Fleet = Slightly more expensive kiter with better damage or kill ALL THE FRIGATES armor dual 180 cruiser Vagabond = Fast ******* kiter with decent dps... Until 3 MWD cycles later when youre out of cap. Meh still can be innovative.
So conundrum? "I swear there are more people complaining over "nullsecers complaining" then actual nullsec people complaining." |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
349
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 12:35:00 -
[216] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
DRAKE NAVY ISSUE:
GÇó Caldari Battlecruiser skill bonuses: +10% to heavy missile and heavy assault missile velocity and 5% bonus to explosion radius of heavy missile and heavy assault missile per level
...
Eventually, you can also fix the missile system instead of giving bonuses that should be included in the base missile.
A drake more expensive, with less DPS and less tank ? Seriously ? Oh sorry, it gets bonus speed (bonus compared to the drake's base speed that has been nerfed), should be worth it !... Or not.
Deception, deception...
Bah, I wasn't intending to fly it anyway, missiles are crap in PvP. G££ <= Me |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
725
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 12:36:00 -
[217] - Quote
Roime wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:I don't quite understand what niche these things are supposed to fill
Looking at the lp prices they will end up costing almost as much as a command ship and.. Well i don't see why you would get a slightly buffed up hurricane when you can get a sleipnir for the same price =/
All in all these ships seem rather redundant and boring, not really adding any significant value. They are primarily aimed at players with more ISK or LP than SP. One does not simply jump into a command ship. They are also more commonly used in PVE than PVP. CCP wrote:For those who just joined EVE, navy hulls mainly offer improved performance over regular tech1 ships. They can be acquired at your nearest navy or Factional Warfare (FW) militia friendly store if you donGÇÖt feel like obtaining them through other players on the regular market. Nice goals for new and old mission grinders or FW guys.
Command ships are **** for pve... BYDI (Shadow cartel) Recruitment open!
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Vincent Gaines
Cold Moon Destruction Transmission Lost
343
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 13:06:00 -
[218] - Quote
Hurricane > former tier 2 Drake > former tier 2 Harby > former tier 2 Brutx > um.... what?
So why not a navy Myrm? Not a diplo.-á
The above post was edited for spelling. |
Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
257
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 13:09:00 -
[219] - Quote
Vincent Gaines wrote:Hurricane > former tier 3 Drake > former tier 3 Harby > former tier 3 Brutx > um.... what?
So why not a navy Myrm? tier 3? are u sure? |
Vincent Gaines
Cold Moon Destruction Transmission Lost
343
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 13:09:00 -
[220] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Where would/could they go with a Navy Myrmidon? Turret damage bonus with 125Mbps? Would that not step on the Role of the Ishtar, the Eos? Pure Drone ship? That is the Navy Vexor or the Dominix. The Navy Brutix is a very nice ship.[/quote]
Navy Drake is not stepping on the toes of the Navy Caracal? Not a diplo.-á
The above post was edited for spelling. |
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Lidia Caderu
Cobalt Academy Cobalt..
5
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 13:09:00 -
[221] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Firu Issier wrote:Buhhdust Princess wrote:Mr Floydy wrote:Jonas Sukarala wrote:im guessing they all have the command link bonus like T1 ?.... the brutix will surely obsolete the mega same tank almost same slots and much more mobile..... Well the faction Brutix is going to cost a lot more than a Mega. So yes on stats alone it will potentially obsolete a Megathron, you know in the same way that the Proteus has obsoleted pretty much every Gallente ship on the game. I've never seen any Gallente pilot not flying a Proteus. Love the amount of confusion these ships are causing. The amount of completely contrary posts saying these ships are under/over powered is hilarious! The confusion means CCP has done their job correctly. It is almost a perfect balance because noone really knows which way this is going to swing. But....... But....... But....... I want a navy Myrmidon....... Where would/could they go with a Navy Myrmidon? Turret damage bonus with 125Mbps? Would that not step on the Role of the Ishtar, the Eos? Pure Drone ship? That is the Navy Vexor or the Dominix. The Navy Brutix is a very nice ship. it does not need 125mbps,100 is enough. it needs 7 hi slots.
Also I think its needed to add one parameter to ships, it will define maximum drones in space allowed. For Myrm 6-7 |
Vincent Gaines
Cold Moon Destruction Transmission Lost
343
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 13:10:00 -
[222] - Quote
Naomi Knight wrote:Vincent Gaines wrote:Hurricane > former tier 3 Drake > former tier 3 Harby > former tier 3 Brutx > um.... what?
So why not a navy Myrm? tier 3? are u sure?
Lul. 2. tee hee.
Still, there's no reason not to give it to the Myrm, just as the Drake is a tougher Caracal. Not a diplo.-á
The above post was edited for spelling. |
Meditril
T.R.I.A.D
252
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 13:25:00 -
[223] - Quote
Nice one, I love it! Now you just need to make Large plexes appear more often in FW so that we can also use these ships! |
NinjaStyle
hirr RAZOR Alliance
5
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 13:28:00 -
[224] - Quote
Navy Drake 880 pg 8 launchers normal drake 800 pg 6 launchers.... Yeah makes sense right? or is it just surposed to not be able to fit thoese 2 extra launchers?
same amount of mids / lows makes the +80pg vs normal t1 look kinda bad
allso don't give us the old hurricane back and the brutix instead of myrm choice is bad since the brutix is still ****. |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
1859
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 13:45:00 -
[225] - Quote
There are a lot of Drake fans here. I used to be one too, so here are the Navy Drake and Revelation 1.1 Drake stats for comparison:
DRAKE NAVY ISSUE:
Unwilling to imitate our dear friend Victor by creating a Drakenstein monster, the Navy version focuses on flexibility instead of improving the already good raw firepower and tank of the standard Drake. It has a 10% missile velocity and 5% missile explosion radius bonus per level, 8 launchers and improved mobility.
GÇó Caldari Battlecruiser skill bonuses: +10% to heavy missile and heavy assault missile velocity and 5% bonus to explosion radius of heavy missile and heavy assault missile per level GÇó Slot layout: 8 H, 6 M, 4 L, 0 turrets, 8 launchers GÇó Fittings: 880 PWG, 550 CPU GÇó Defense (shields / armor / hull) :7875 / 4875 / 5625 GÇó Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 2500 / 658 s / 3.8 GÇó Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 150 / 0.64 / 13329000 / 11.8 s GÇó Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 25 GÇó Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 60km / 195 / 8 GÇó Sensor strength: 23 Gravimetric GÇó Signature radius: 295
==============
Revelation 1.1 Drake: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=191595
Battlecruiser skill bonuses: 5% bonus to all Shield Resistances 10% bonus to heavy and heavy assault missile kinetic damage Fixed Bonus: Can fit Warfare Link modules Slot layout: 7 H (-1), 6 M, 4 L , 6 Launchers (-1) Fittings: 800 PWG (-50), 500 CPU (-25) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 5250(-219) / 3250(-658) / 3750(-156) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 2500(-312.5) / 658s(-92s) / 3.8 (+0.05) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 140 / 0.64(+0.012) / 14810000 (+800,000) / 8.9s (+0.7) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 25 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 60km / 195 / 8 Sensor strength: 19 Gravimetric Signature radius: 295 (+10) Cargo capacity: 450 (+105)
(The align time is actually higher on the navy? Seems odd since mass is lower and agility the same.)
=================
Navy Hull Analysis vs. Drake:
The navy drake is 7% faster. (+10 m/s) The align time looks dorked - Presumably the Navy drake will align faster too with less mass. It has a built-in LSE II (exactly 2625 more shields). (Effectively +1 mid slot) ...countered by no resist bonus, so the +1 mid slot is a 2nd Invuln II if you want to keep comparing vs. a drake. ...Or you can just have a weaker tank and use that extra mid slot as flexibility. To count the increased armor and hull you need to fit a damage control - regular drake could get away without one. Cap is the same. Fittings are slightly higher, +80 PG, +50 CPU - but you have 2 more launchers to fit.
Damage is lower, but more flexible, projectable and applicable. vs. cruisers it will probably hit about the same or better depending on the cruiser's sig/speed. vs. frigates it will do better than a drake - most of you damage will still be drones though. vs. tech II Gallente ships it will do better - you can dodge the kinetic resist. vs. everything else it will hit about the same or a little softer, and use more ammo to do it.
Guys that already roam in Nano drakes will like the navy hull for the flexibility and chance to kite with HAMs instead of heavies. They'll probably have success with it, but not because they splashed an extra 150M isk.
For most other drake applications, this is just another drake that costs more. Although, it will make for a more tempting bait-drake.
For my money it's just not that amazing, but I'll give it a go once it hits Sisi. I have a couple characters with stale Caldari LP sitting unspent, and one used to be my drake alt. (He flies a Cyclone now)
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
Mike Whiite
Cupid Stunts. Casoff
172
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 13:58:00 -
[226] - Quote
@ War Kitten
you seem to have done quite some calculating already
I'm under the impresion that this navy drake will especialy shine with T2 High Damage missiles, you got some numbers on that?
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Askulf Joringer
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
28
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 14:18:00 -
[227] - Quote
NinjaStyle wrote:Navy Drake 880 pg 8 launchers normal drake 800 pg 6 launchers.... Yeah makes sense right? or is it just surposed to not be able to fit thoese 2 extra launchers?
same amount of mids / lows makes the +80pg vs normal t1 look kinda bad
allso don't give us the old hurricane back and the brutix instead of myrm choice is bad since the brutix is still ****.
The point about the Drake is valid however I think the Idea is that you won't be fitting two LSE's, instead you will be fitting another resistance mod.
As for your point about the brutix... It's got enough grid to fit ions, mwd, small cap booster, scram, web, 1x 1600mm, 2x eanm, 1x dcuII, 1x explosive/reactive hardener, and 2x mag stabs. The ship is going to do very very well.
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Askulf Joringer
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
28
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 14:22:00 -
[228] - Quote
Martin0 wrote:Soooooo the navy brutix will be as expensive as an astarte without t2 resists.
Well the be fair, the Astarte takes far more SP than the Navy Brutix.
Astarte is also not rebalanced yet, it currently has 2 less total slots than the proposed navy Brutix and far less base ehp, even factoring in the t2 resistances. Wait till they buff the astarte/commands till you start this complaints please.
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1258
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 14:32:00 -
[229] - Quote
Katsami wrote: Faction ships are also at least supposed to provide a nominal upgrade over T1 for that inflated price. These don't even come close.
My Navy Brutix will be able to support a full rack of 250's and it looks like a full rack of magstabs/te's in the lows to enhance those 250s as well. We're talking 672 dps at 23 km with excellent tracking. Massive tank (1.5x regular Brutix). And with FW LP, it will be reasonably priced (for me).
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Askulf Joringer
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
28
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 14:40:00 -
[230] - Quote
Jonas Sukarala wrote: - buff battleships tanks across the board by 25%.
Otherwise why use a bs when a navy bc will do the job better for similar price or less?
This is something that I was hoping CCP would address with the t1 BS revamp. ATM, BS are one of the most poorly tanked ships when talking about fleet level fights with logi support. Sure they have a bit more ehp compared to Cruisers/HACs/ and BCs however their massively increased sig and slower speed coupled with standard t1 resistances mean that they have some of the worst mitigation out there.
A 10% resistance buff to BS across the board would have been a healthy change imo.
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Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
2741
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 14:48:00 -
[231] - Quote
After doing a bit of research, I have found the following:
Quote:With level 5 skills, the Harbinger Navy Issue can NOT fit:
6x Heavy Pulse Laser II 1x Medium Unstable Neutraliser I
1x Experimental 10mn Microwarpdrive I 1x Faint Warp Disruptor I 2x 'Langour' Drive Disruptor I 1x Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I
1x 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plate 1x Internal Force Field Array I 2x Heat Sink II 2x Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
1x Medium Anciliary Current Router I 2x Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Was it CCP's intention to 1. Remove the cap bonus from the ship, so it effectively reduces DPS over time? (Yes, I know they added mid for Cap booster hence above) 2. Make the fitting SO tight that it REQUIRES Implants, t2 rigs, or more than 1 fitting rig to fit it for it's main purpose? (Therefore nerfing the setup more than the rest) (As u will notice I used all the maximum cpu/pgrid saving mods on SENSIBLE mods). 3. Make the harbinger a new Nano Shield ship? |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
1860
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 15:00:00 -
[232] - Quote
Mike Whiite wrote:@ War Kitten
you seem to have done quite some calculating already
I'm under the impresion that this navy drake will especialy shine with T2 High Damage missiles, you got some numbers on that?
No, I don't. Sorry.
In napkin calculations though, they'll do either 8/9ths as much (scourge) or 8/6ths as much (non-scourge) as a regular drake - you'll just be able to apply that damage, in some cases, to things smaller than a battlecruiser.
Versus specific targets, I don't have numbers - it's all practical experience feel from how an pre-retribution drakes flew in pvp.
Personally I think kiting will still work better in small groups and solo with HML instead of the longer reaching HAMs, because there are times when you are outside 30k in an engagement that you could still be applying DPS if you had HMLs.
...now you've done it, I've opened EFT again... (all level 5 skills)
Drake, one T2 launcher: HAM Rage Scourge (NON)[Navy]: 333(222)[295] damage, 161.25 radius - Navy Drake 75% radius is 120.93 HAM CN Scourge (NON)[Navy]: 284(189)[251] damage, 93.75 radius - Navy Drake 75% radius is 70.31 HAM Jav Scourge (NON)[Navy]: 222(148)[197] damage, 93.75 radius - Navy Drake 75% radius is 70.31
HML Fury Scourge (NON)[Navy]: 375(250)[333] damage, 180.75 radius - Navy Drake 75% radius is 135.56 HML CN Scourge (NON)[Navy]: 320(213)[283] damage, 105 radius - Navy Drake 75% radius is 78.75 HML Prec Scourge (NON)[Navy]: 278(186)[247] damage, 93.75 radius - Navy Drake 75% radius is 70.31
(NON) = Non-scourge on a Drake [Navy] = Fired from a Navy Drake regardless of flavor.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
86
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 15:06:00 -
[233] - Quote
Lidia Caderu wrote:it does not need 125mbps,100 is enough. it needs 7 hi slots.
Also I think its needed to add one parameter to ships, it will define maximum drones in space allowed. For Myrm 6-7
Drone optimal range bonus maybe? Can't think of other ships having that right now... :/
Why a parameter for maximum drones in space allowed? That's what drone bandwidth is for... There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction Whores in space
113
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 15:10:00 -
[234] - Quote
Debora Tsung wrote:Lidia Caderu wrote:it does not need 125mbps,100 is enough. it needs 7 hi slots.
Also I think its needed to add one parameter to ships, it will define maximum drones in space allowed. For Myrm 6-7 Drone optimal range bonus maybe? Can't think of other ships having that right now... :/ Why a parameter for maximum drones in space allowed? That's what drone bandwidth is for...
because he wants to be able to allow you to have 10 drones in space... with 50 meters bandwidth. Or 1 drone with 25 meters... Or 5 in space with 125. To allow flexibility on balancing drone ships. |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
1861
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 15:12:00 -
[235] - Quote
From the above data you can draw your own conclusions.
To me, I see the Navy drake doing more damage with T2 ammo than a standard drake with Faction, but the faction ammo Drake still applies its damage to smaller targets better than the Navy does with T2.
And if both were using T2 ammo against an MWD-running foe, or anything BC or bigger, explosion radius isn't an issue and the old drake wins (with scourge).
Navy drake is just different - better against smaller foes, weaker against larger... its not universally better, and its certainly not OP as someone tried to claim.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille Gallente Federation
140
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 15:19:00 -
[236] - Quote
I would have preferred Navy Myrm, I think itGÇÖs a much more flexible ship.
Brutix - now I can see why people like it as people dislike the rep bonus but compared to the uniqueness o the Navy ship line upgrades e.g. Comet Navy Vex and ENI it feels a little bland.
ItGÇÖs a strong ship I guess stat wise but I would have liked to have seen a little more variation than the slap a slot on and buff EHP approach. Not sure it is gaining a lot with the tracking bonus unless it is with a fleet BC in mind and rail usage. The current proposal could do with about 12 more powergrid for a 200mm rails and 1600mm plate config, it is annoyingly a tiny amount short.
I like the Idea of a big Comet. It has the tracking and Damage Bonus but to be a really flexible brawler I perhaps would have liked to see a larger drone bay say 50 (100) although ideally I perhaps would have like 75(125) and seen a bit more creativity with the high slots and bonus to really exemplify Gallente combat doctrine in one hull.
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Xindi Kraid
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
393
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 15:24:00 -
[237] - Quote
What about the other 4 Combat BCs? I want a faction Myrm |
Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
2752
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 15:30:00 -
[238] - Quote
I'm pretty sure we'll see:
Guristas Ferox Serpentis Myrmidon Angel Cyclone (Probably a new model) Blood Raider Prophecy Sansha Battlecruiser (Probably larger Phantasm)
So please stfu about the bloody myrmidon. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1601
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 15:32:00 -
[239] - Quote
Askulf Joringer wrote:Jonas Sukarala wrote: - buff battleships tanks across the board by 25%.
Otherwise why use a bs when a navy bc will do the job better for similar price or less?
This is something that I was hoping CCP would address with the t1 BS revamp. ATM, BS are one of the most poorly tanked ships when talking about fleet level fights with logi support. Sure they have a bit more ehp compared to Cruisers/HACs/ and BCs however their massively increased sig and slower speed coupled with standard t1 resistances mean that they have some of the worst mitigation out there. A 10% resistance buff to BS across the board would have been a healthy change imo. +1
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Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1155
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 15:44:00 -
[240] - Quote
Not to seem ungrateful but with all the hints towards new ships- any chance for new hulla in Odyssey? |
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