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| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 58 post(s) |
Tomias Itaraou
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Posted - 2005.09.25 21:57:00 -
[781]
Adding an extra lowslot would do the trick - add nanofiber and its at about the same speed as before.
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Gian Bal
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Posted - 2005.09.25 22:41:00 -
[782]
 Originally by: Thanos Firebringer
Yay for making everything equal. How stupid. Ships have specialzations for a reason. It's called STRATEGY!!! Thorax had a big drone bay. Get over it. It's consistent w/ the Gallente race of ships. They have bigger drones bays. Not every ship shoud be made the same. I do like the Moa gettin the resistance, but then it's almost too much like the maller. Originality is good.
Set Trip and Get Smoked .......
i must agree :( making the game plain for all races takes really a big part of fun over the time.
just my 2 cents, but pls for tII-bs (whenever they come), why not make every race one's unique with special abilitys the other races don't have. so maybe a spec-ops(cloak) version for matari, uber-EW for caldari. etc...
pls stop your equalization, pls
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So'Kar
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Posted - 2005.09.25 23:12:00 -
[783]
Any plans change destroyers? Thought these would get some changes with other t1 ships. Like lower sig radius, increase speed, agility, armour/shield or just even scan resolution. Or add completely new ones that are more expensive, but litte more usefull than current ones.
Dont take away rifters speed bonus. 
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Dark Guntaro
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Posted - 2005.09.25 23:18:00 -
[784]
Please don't change the high slot on the blackbird to a medium slot! With only 3 high slots it's firepower as a cruiser would be a joke! The current layout is not broken, why change it?
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Sadist
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Posted - 2005.09.26 02:45:00 -
[785]
What I REALLY want to know is how are they going to boost HAC's to make them justified the insanely high cost, especially the Deimos, which has The lowest powergrid of all the turret-dominant cruisers (munnin, eagle, etc.), (since when is gallente, the armor tankers and hybrid users the the lowest race on PG values? We should be going right between minmatars and amarr). Considering 850 PG on a thorax, 860 on a deimos will be a joke. It still is now - the maller has 850pg.
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VIP member of the [23] |
Jack Cade
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Posted - 2005.09.26 02:49:00 -
[786]
Well if your going to give the omen a launcher hardpoint it only makes sense to give the zealot one as well.
Besides it doesn't get any drones.  |
Demon Johnson
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Posted - 2005.09.26 09:11:00 -
[787]
I think all EW cruisers should get a range bonus for their prefered EW-modules, like the BB has.
The rest looks very good (even if my beloved thorax got nerfed, but I will life with it) 
Remember:
No hands...no cookies. |
Noveron
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Posted - 2005.09.26 12:06:00 -
[788]
Condor may need more CAP to be able to effectively do something imo :)
and.. I like the changes for the MOA.
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Erim Kaluk
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Posted - 2005.09.26 13:38:00 -
[789]
Originally by: Tuxford
Cruisers
Bellicose
- Low slot changed to a med slot
- Max velocity bonus replaced with 5% bonus to target painter effect per level
The Bellicose doesn't have a Max velocity bonus. It has rate of fire and optimal range on Turret bonuses. Which bonus is getting taken away?
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Tuxford
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Posted - 2005.09.26 13:42:00 -
[790]
Mining and Logistic class updated.
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Tuxford
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Posted - 2005.09.26 13:43:00 -
[791]
Originally by: Erim Kaluk
Originally by: Tuxford
Cruisers
Bellicose
- Low slot changed to a med slot
- Max velocity bonus replaced with 5% bonus to target painter effect per level
The Bellicose doesn't have a Max velocity bonus. It has rate of fire and optimal range on Turret bonuses. Which bonus is getting taken away?
Ooops, it's the optimal range bonus that is taken away.
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Nafri
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Posted - 2005.09.26 14:05:00 -
[792]
no new idea for the bellicose?
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Put your panties on your head! |
Summersnow
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Posted - 2005.09.26 14:26:00 -
[793]
Originally by: Tuxford
Stats and bonuses might change before this hit TQ so give your input here Quote:
#1 how do you propose to change the jaguar with its speed bonus and the wolf? ( same with other AF's )
#2 how do you propose to change the vagabond with its speed boost and the muninn? ( same with other HAC's )
#3 looking at the bonus applied to the punisher and the huge nurf applied to the rifter, which requires a lot more points to fly propoery, as well as the aggravation and expense of ammo & missles, why in your mind would anyone but a complete idiot ever fly a rifter ( or any other minmitar ship ) for missions? same question for the maller vs. any other cruiser, minmitar or otherwise.
I'd like to start training minmitar cruiser V in 2 days but given your blatant prejudice against minmitar and desire to completely screw there ships over I'm kind of at a complete loss as to what to do.
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slip66
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Posted - 2005.09.26 16:11:00 -
[794]
over all these changes make the ships better overall then they are now. I think you will start seeing a few ships youve never seen flying before.
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.09.26 16:44:00 -
[795]
Right then, thanks for the update.
Executioner is still useless unless you like to fly 25k shuttles.
Augoror is still useless. 10% armor means it gets almost the same armor as a Maller at lvl5 skills. And the Maller gets more slots, two more (usefull) boni. Same for Omen vs Maller comparison. The Omen is still outclassed in every way humanly possible.
And hey, thanks for killing the diversity of the Arbitrator too by giving the Omen a launcher. Better give that launcher to the Arbitrator instead so it has more options than just pull as Ishtar.
Essentially, these changes do nothing. Atall. Itll make the tier 3 cruisers easier too fit, which doesnt directly mean better, and just makes the other cruisers a complete waste of ISK. Because hey, noone cares about the Omen costing 2mill more then an Augoror. And noone cares that Maller costs 2mill more then an Omen. That's about 5minutes worth of NPCing.
Give them different roles. And Logistics isnt a role, thats an excuse for not being able to come up with something better. Look at Logistic Cruisers. (The unused tech2 version, in case you didnt know what they are. Barely anyone does, because hey, they suck.)
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2005.09.26 19:19:00 -
[796]
Originally by: Tuxford
Mining and Logistic class updated.
Looks good! Keep tweaking, mate ;)
--
Give Stealth Bombers an anti-battleship role!
Give them torpedoes instead of cruise missiles! |
Keltin
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Posted - 2005.09.26 20:42:00 -
[797]
Navitas/Burst are still the wrong ships for mining.
Imicus/Probe have long been the mining frigates. They have drone bays that allow new players to begin to branch out to the .7-.8 systems. New players need to understand the roles drones play in defense.
Please, consider buffing all mining frigates to have at least 15m3 of drone bay capacity or return the Imicus/Probe to mining class frigates.
I have seen some very good suggestions in this thread. It would be nice to know what changes are actually being considered, if any to the initial post.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
"I have never had so much fun playing a game that I have trouble staying awake playing!" |
Jeanpierre Duvall
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Posted - 2005.09.26 22:37:00 -
[798]
First of all I must say that I have not read every entry in this thread. :)
My thoughts are. Very good changes.. :) I like..
I mostly fly cald ships so here it goes.
Merlin: Great.
Condor: Ok. Maybe a extra lowslot instead of the highslot.
Kestrel: Good but would like 7-10% rate of fire and 5% missile speed /lvl. Ditch the damage bonus. Or maybe a extra lowslot.
Osprey: Wonderfull. (Starting a small CCP-fanclub)
Blackbirds: are already great so it good that you keep it. :)
Moa: Me no like. It lowers my tank. My bonus now of 25%against all would be 25% against EM 17% against thermal 15% against kinetik and 10% against Explo. Would also like a 40m¦ dronebay.
Caracal: I really need the PG so please. ;) Same bonus as I asked for Kestrel. Also a 30m¦ dronebay here. Really need the frig defence. Could take the PG nerf for a 3'rd lowslot.
We'll that was my 2 bits. And thanx for the drone nerf on the Rax and very good changes over all.
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Phelan Lore
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Posted - 2005.09.27 00:37:00 -
[799]
Tuxford, any thoughts about giving the destroyers a boost as well?
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SexySexy
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Posted - 2005.09.27 00:49:00 -
[800]
Amarrrrr 4TW?
Maller - uber gun ship.
Poweroutput increased to 900MW
CPU output decreased to 270tf
Thorax - EVECANDY, useless ship after change.
Dronebay decreased to 100m^3
Poweroutput increased to 850MW
NEED MORE pg for 250mm rail guns
Omen - l33t uber
Launcher hardpoint added
Poweroutput increased to 730MW
CPU output decreased to 250tf
Vexor - no need pg for drone carrier.
Poweroutput increased to 675MW
CPU output decreased to 270tf
NEED MORE drone bay!
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.09.27 00:56:00 -
[801]
"Thorax - EVECANDY, useless ship after change.
Dronebay decreased to 100m^3
Poweroutput increased to 850MW
NEED MORE pg for 250mm rail guns"
Thorax grid with engineering skill: 1062.5
5x 250mm rail I, with advanced weapon upgrades 3: 1057.5
5x 250mm rail II, with advanced weapon upgrades 5: 1062
Seems it can actually fit full rack of heaviest medium weapons without using a single low slot. Something which, supposedly, no ship in this game should be allowed to.
(Moa sure like heck can't do that with her grid and 4x 250 mm rail, 2x heavy launcher combo)
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Rasitiln
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Posted - 2005.09.27 02:08:00 -
[802]
Edited by: Rasitiln on 27/09/2005 02:10:13
How bout a extra slot on the stabber. I know the stabber isnt over powered. I feel a extra slot would make the stabber a tad more versitile with out making it over powered.
EDIT:
also on second thought make the drone bay bigger or drop it all togeather. 10m3 is a joke I get 2 choices 2 lights or 1 medium thats just a insult to me. So drop the drone bay and give me another slot or keep the slots and make the bay a bit bigger.
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Manyara
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Posted - 2005.09.27 02:17:00 -
[803]
Nooooo!!
You took away my drones!!
Basically you've turned the thorax into a baby deimos, in allowing it to fit a full rack of ions and taking away half its drone capability.
TBH I'm not whining as much as you poor missile users, but i think a drop to 150m3 would have been sufficient, and ~820 pg.
Still, cant complain too much, at least it didnt get its range nerfed 
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How would you like your ass? |
DarK
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Posted - 2005.09.27 02:26:00 -
[804]
A "baby" deimos LOL
It's the tech 1 version of the Deimos, HELLO ?
*smacks forehead*
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Siri Danae
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Posted - 2005.09.27 04:02:00 -
[805]
I think the updated Mining/Logistics changes are great. The Exequror has a wide variety of possible uses now.
But I can't believe you're ignoring the complaints regarding the entire Minmatar frigate line. Its been universally protested. Keep the min fast.
And the burst/probe imicus/navitas switch still should be considered.
------
I generally assume the following:
1. 95% of Empire Carebears don't get 0.0 PVPers.
2. 95% of 0.0 PVPers don't get Empire Carebears.
3. 100% of Ore Thieves steal just to upset the Miners. |
Alex Harumichi
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Posted - 2005.09.27 08:22:00 -
[806]
Originally by: Tuxford
Mining and Logistic class updated.
Good work, these looks very nice now, solid multi-use noncombat t1 cruisers.
I still have some concerns (echoed by many people here):
- Executioner needs a medslot. You do not tackle with just one medslot. Period. Please either stop calling it a "tackler" frigate or give it the means to actually tackle.
- Please switch the roles for Navitas/Burst and Imicus/Probe. The Imicus and Probe are the established and natural mining frigates.
- The Bellicose is still weak, the target painter bonus does nothing to protect the ship (unlike the other EW variants). Suggestion: give it a signature radius bonus dependent on cruiser level, so it would have at least some prayer of surviving in the field.
Also, I'm still concerned that the Arbitrator is a better drone platform than the Vexor, that seems upside down. I have no problems with the Arbitrator being a good drone platform, but please consider giving the Vexor something to recommend it.
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.09.27 10:25:00 -
[807]
Originally by: Alex Harumichi
Also, I'm still concerned that the Arbitrator is a better drone platform than the Vexor, that seems upside down. I have no problems with the Arbitrator being a good drone platform, but please consider giving the Vexor something to recommend it.
Compare the Vexors stats to the Arbitrators. You'll see that the Arbitrator is worse is every way possible, cap, shield, armor, offense, defense whatever.
The Arbitrator loses hands down so please read up before posting next time, thx.
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Nifel
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Posted - 2005.09.27 10:45:00 -
[808]
Right... so will Target Painter bonuses get fixed?
"We wield swords for the sound of laughter that used to be there long ago."
RKK Ranking: (MIN10) Sarraqa |
Naughty Boy
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Posted - 2005.09.27 10:53:00 -
[809]
Edited by: Naughty Boy on 27/09/2005 10:57:34
Comparison of the guns of the thorax mk2, VS the guns of the moa mk2:
-> maxed skills;
-> long range setups;
-> not accounting drones & launchers
* ~90 dps for 10 t1 mediums drones (thorax mk2)
* ~40 dps for 2 t2 heavy launchers (moa mk2)
* ~12 dps for 1 t2 assault launchers (didn't do the math, so could be a bit off - moa mk2).
* ~20 dps for 5 t1 scout drones (moa mk2)
-> Setups:
* thorax: 5*250mm t2, whatever, need a powermod to fit anything else. With a RCU t2, ~159 MW to fit 4 low and 3 mids. Possibility to fit 4 damage mods.
* moa: 4*250mm t2, whatever, ~88 MW to fit 2 high, 4 mids, 4 low. Possibility to fit 4 damage mods. With a RCU t2, ~229 to fit 2 high, 3 low and 3 mids. Possibility to fit 3 damage mods. As it appears that 4 guns & 4 damage mods outdamage 4 guns & 3 damage mods and 2 t2 heavy launchers, while still leaving more pg to play with for the rest of the slots, setup will be 4*250mm t2.
As both setup fit 250mm t2 guns with 4 damage mods, the 1.79 factor of damage mods isn't taken into account in the calculations.
Results:
- the thorax setup outdamage the moa setup all the way to 60km and further, when the thorax is using iron ammo in falloff. At 60km, it is still outdamaging the moa by 30%. From 0 to 17 the thorax outdamage the moa by 56%. From 17 to 28, by 42%. From 28 to 36 km, the difference is damage is not constant, and change between 25% and 56%. Then, from 36 to 60, the thorax outdamage the moa by 30-36%.
- Further than 60km, the thorax is in falloff of iron ammo and does 67.5 dps (121 dps with 4 mfs t2) while the moa is in falloff of iridium or already using tungsten doing 52 dps (93 dps with 4 mfs t2). For the moa, falloff of iron start at 72km, doing 43 dps (76 dps with 4 mfs t2). The moa thus start outdamaging the thorax somewhere between 60km and 72km. That is a bit disappointing.
The 4th mid, extra cpu and shield resistance bonus of the moa better do some major difference, or else it will not even have it's "sniper" role (right  ) amongst the hybrid-using cruisers.
I don't know what is happening to the plates finally, but cruisers need more survivability one way or another, hence if big plates are ever ruled out viable setups cruisers could do with lower sig, more hp, more speed, more agility... the usual stuffs.
Oh, and i did the same comparison between a thorax and an eagle, the eagle start oudamaging the thorax past 27-28 km up to 60km by only 10% (slight window of some more damage by 22% between 51 and 55 km though ). The eagle "shines" ( ) with ranged ammo between 60 and 90 km, doing 76-54 dps (136-97 dps with 4 mfs t2). That and the extra resists better justify the extra cost and training time.
A small pg boost for the moa pretty please ? Not that even with that we'll see thorax/moa sniping so... maybe not .
Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
---
Originally by: theRaptor
Its even funnier when half the forum is crying for damage mod nerfs and the other half for plate nerfs. 
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Alex Harumichi
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Posted - 2005.09.27 11:26:00 -
[810]
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: Alex Harumichi
Also, I'm still concerned that the Arbitrator is a better drone platform than the Vexor, that seems upside down. I have no problems with the Arbitrator being a good drone platform, but please consider giving the Vexor something to recommend it.
Compare the Vexors stats to the Arbitrators. You'll see that the Arbitrator is worse is every way possible, cap, shield, armor, offense, defense whatever.
The Arbitrator loses hands down so please read up before posting next time, thx.
Oh please. You very conveniently forget the extra midslot on the Arbi, and the very very good new EW bonus. For pvp, those are *much* more useful than the slightly higher armor etc values on the Vexor.
Granted, for pve Vexor is probably better. But for pvp, Arbi is far and away the better choice. IMHO, of course.
Having said that... maybe the ships *are* balanced. One is better for pve, one for pvp. Hmmm. Ok, I can live with that, I guess.
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