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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 58 post(s)
Alpdruck	Posted - 2005.10.12 11:09:00 - [1351] Edited by: Alpdruck on 12/10/2005 11:10:23 Omen: How about making it a fast close range ship? Make it fast and agile for a cruiser so that it can be a pulse laser wielding close combat ship. From a roleplaying perspective, it could be some kind of counter for the fast minmatar ships. Just do not make it faster than those, or the cries will reach heaven... Seriously, right now the Omen is quite useless compared to the Maller which is a better ship in almost all regards. And training/getting ISK for the next tier cruiser takes only such a small amount of time, that anybody will do it and just skip the Omen for the Maller. So it has to get another, more specialised role other than being a standard ship. Hunter-killer would be nice. And drop the missile slot, amarr do not like training for anything except lasers anyway, keep the utility slot for NOS. Maybe add a little more drones if you feel the need to up it's versatility/dps. The Omen is such a sleek, good-looking ship, it is a shame that there is no use for it.
Critta	Posted - 2005.10.12 11:51:00 - [1352] Originally by: Tuxford Rifter Poweroutput increased to 37MW Max velocity increased to 320m/s Max velocity bonus replaced with 10% accuracy falloff per level So the Rifter is being taken from 450m/s w/skills down to 320m/s... Whatever happened to the Minmater relying on speed? Now we have Then replacing that bonus with a falloff bonus (I see this as next to useless with projectiles?!?) Someone in the dev team must really hate the minmater :D Minmater's speed is what gives them their character, please, please, at least make the base velocity ~375-400m/s or don't take the speed bost away and replace it with something pants!
Theron Gyrow	Posted - 2005.10.12 11:59:00 - [1353] Originally by: MIstress Saki The changes look overall good. To the Omen: <snip> In my opinion the best way (if you want to stick by the 2 bonus per cruiser system) would be to increase the ROF bonus, something between 10-15% per level. That should be be best way to increase the fire power over that of the maller. ... You are aware that with 15% RoF bonus, at level 5 Omen would do 1.5 times the damage of a Armageddon with 8 mega pulses? Yeah, I guess that would indeed get people to use it more. -- Gradient's forum
Meridius	Posted - 2005.10.12 12:01:00 - [1354] Originally by: MIstress Saki would be to increase the ROF bonus, something between 10-15% per level. That should be be best way to increase the fire power over that of the maller. Yeah just by a tad ________________________________________________________

Tuxford	Posted - 2005.10.12 12:25:00 - [1355] Originally by: Critta So the Rifter is being taken from 450m/s w/skills down to 320m/s... Whatever happened to the Minmater relying on speed? 375m/sec actually if you have minmatar frigate level 5. Most likely 360m/sec as if you have minmatar frigate level 5 you are probably flying assault ships or interceptors to fight with. _______________

Nyxus	Posted - 2005.10.12 12:55:00 - [1356] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: MIstress Saki would be to increase the ROF bonus, something between 10-15% per level. That should be be best way to increase the fire power over that of the maller. Yeah just by a tad 15% per level is WAY too much. 8% or 9% per level give it more damage than a maller and it's much lower powergrid keeps it from tanking effectively. Nyxus
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.10.12 12:56:00 - [1357] I'm afraid that's an arrogant and unwanted assumption, Tux. There are a lot of situations where a good T1 frigate is the appropriate ship. The Rifter is currently used by a lot of high-skill players for some tasks. I for one WON'T after this nerf to it. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."

Tuxford	Posted - 2005.10.12 13:03:00 - [1358] Originally by: Nyxus Originally by: Meridius Originally by: MIstress Saki would be to increase the ROF bonus, something between 10-15% per level. That should be be best way to increase the fire power over that of the maller. Yeah just by a tad 15% per level is WAY too much. 8% or 9% per level give it more damage than a maller and it's much lower powergrid keeps it from tanking effectively. Nyxus 9% gives you about 80% boost to dot, which is to much. I'm not touching the amount of rof bonus. _______________

babylonstew	Posted - 2005.10.12 13:08:00 - [1359] ok, omen again, i am starting to agree with meridus i think it was. drop the cap use bonus and give it a 5% damage per lvl. alltho this may have cap issues, just remember the nwew damage mod 'nerf' etc, new set up might very well be 2/3 heaksinks and the rest cap relays??, be rather unique for an amarr turret ship and give it a niche???
Xaero Khelvin	Posted - 2005.10.12 13:27:00 - [1360] My two cents on the Rifter. The rifter is really, really fast. With the current bonuses It's real speed is 345 by the time you get Min Frig III to pilot it. In comparison to all the other frigs (hell even interceptors), it's definatly way too fast at Min Frig V. Thing is though, the rifter really needs that speed. Not just to make it harder to hit, but out of all the assault frigates listed it has the shortest max targeting range of them all and it needs that all that speed to get into targeting range. The only ships under 30km are the punisher and the tristan and they both have 2 more slots along with more cap and a drone bay respectively. If the rifter had a targeting range around 28-30'ish km it could probably make alot better use of it's two launcher hardpoints if not a pair of small howitzers. It would also help it make much better use of the proposed falloff range bonus. With the lowest targeting range and small number of mid and low slots, all the rifter really has going for it is the fact that it could give all the other races interceptors a run for their money if you had Min Frigs V. I'd figure appropriate stats for an updated rifter would be. 325-330 m/s top speed - This puts the top speed just over the breaking point for the listed top speed and what you'd get with min frig III, the minimum ability required to pilot it. With that, people can shut up about the speed nerf. It's just more than half the difference between the base speed and it's base speed in practice at Min Frig III. 28-30km max targeting range - So longer ranged weapons can be put to better use. 3 mid slots - So I can have the option of doing a shield tank along with the requisite ab or mwd. Then in the lows I could put in a warp stabilizer or weapon mod or hey, how about an overdrive to make for the loss in speed. Then the proposed % range or damage bonus instead of the tracking bonus.
Summersnow	Posted - 2005.10.12 13:41:00 - [1361] Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: Critta So the Rifter is being taken from 450m/s w/skills down to 320m/s... Whatever happened to the Minmater relying on speed? 375m/sec actually if you have minmatar frigate level 5. Most likely 360m/sec as if you have minmatar frigate level 5 you are probably flying assault ships or interceptors to fight with. Ahh, so the "bone" yer tossing minmatar pilots for ruining the rifter is to drop all of the other level V requirements on our t2 ships so we can hop in them as soon as we get min frig V trained? Your also cutting the cost and increaseing the insurance payouts on the t2 frigs? no???? Telling the minmatar that we should all just fly t2 ships because you've got a hard on against the rifter ( podded as a newb by one I assume ) should get you FIRED and us an apology. ( especially since the minmitar t2 ships aren't the best for missions, etc due to severe cap problems ) Your complete ignorance of the roleplay aspects of this game, racial histories and design philosophies as well as the non-pvp game elements make you the wrong person for this project. ( missle launcher on an omon???? no one who's been with this game since the start and gives two seconds of thought to the racial roleplay would ever consider that acceptable ) Your desire to make this WoW in space ( oh, look lets give all the ships classes, lets make them hunters, priests, warriors, etc just like WoW ) defeats the attraction of eve, its DIFFERENT then all the run of the mill MMRPG. Your intent of make all the ships vanilla also defeats the entire purpose of cross training racial ship skills and defeats the whole collectability aspect of the game. It was a lot of fun to crosstrain to get the specific ships people wanted from each race, now there will be no point to it. Instead it gets down to a numbers game, the old min / max powergamer which right now goes TRAIN AMARR !
dust monkey	Posted - 2005.10.12 13:44:00 - [1362] agreed to the 2 posts above

Tuxford	Posted - 2005.10.12 13:48:00 - [1363] Originally by: Summersnow Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: Critta So the Rifter is being taken from 450m/s w/skills down to 320m/s... Whatever happened to the Minmater relying on speed? 375m/sec actually if you have minmatar frigate level 5. Most likely 360m/sec as if you have minmatar frigate level 5 you are probably flying assault ships or interceptors to fight with. Ahh, so the "bone" yer tossing minmatar pilots for ruining the rifter is to drop all of the other level V requirements on our t2 ships so we can hop in them as soon as we get min frig V trained? Your also cutting the cost and increaseing the insurance payouts on the t2 frigs? no???? Telling the minmatar that we should all just fly t2 ships because you've got a hard on against the rifter ( podded as a newb by one I assume ) should get you FIRED and us an apology. ( especially since the minmitar t2 ships aren't the best for missions, etc due to severe cap problems ) Your complete ignorance of the roleplay aspects of this game, racial histories and design philosophies as well as the non-pvp game elements make you the wrong person for this project. ( missle launcher on an omon???? no one who's been with this game since the start and gives two seconds of thought to the racial roleplay would ever consider that acceptable ) Your desire to make this WoW in space ( oh, look lets give all the ships classes, lets make them hunters, priests, warriors, etc just like WoW ) defeats the attraction of eve, its DIFFERENT then all the run of the mill MMRPG. Your intent of make all the ships vanilla also defeats the entire purpose of cross training racial ship skills and defeats the whole collectability aspect of the game. It was a lot of fun to crosstrain to get the specific ships people wanted from each race, now there will be no point to it. Instead it gets down to a numbers game, the old min / max powergamer which right now goes TRAIN AMARR ! I want to reply this because you obviously put considerable effort in to misinterpretating a two line sentence, so kudos to you. _______________

keepiru	Posted - 2005.10.12 14:07:00 - [1364] Originally by: Summersnow Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: Critta So the Rifter is being taken from 450m/s w/skills down to 320m/s... Whatever happened to the Minmater relying on speed? 375m/sec actually if you have minmatar frigate level 5. Most likely 360m/sec as if you have minmatar frigate level 5 you are probably flying assault ships or interceptors to fight with. Ahh, so the "bone" yer tossing minmatar pilots for ruining the rifter is to drop all of the other level V requirements on our t2 ships so we can hop in them as soon as we get min frig V trained? nice attitude, gonna get you far >_>; ------------- WTB: a Faction Micro Smartbomb :P
Khaldorn Murino	Posted - 2005.10.12 14:07:00 - [1365] Guys, its a game, there's no need to get personal about it. I mean, he listenend to alot of your points, if you got stuff to get across to him, putting it like that, well, that aint gonna work and theres no need for it. Im still gonna get a few more m/s out of Tux, as soon as I find the time to do a compare of the assualt frigates. :) And try and convince him that a 10% tracking bonus would be just the thing for the Rifter. Tux, you know it makes sense bruv! - Just a simple warrior.

Tuxford	Posted - 2005.10.12 14:11:00 - [1366] Originally by: Khaldorn Murino Guys, its a game, there's no need to get personal about it. I mean, he listenend to alot of your points, if you got stuff to get across to him, putting it like that, well, that aint gonna work and theres no need for it. Im still gonna get a few more m/s out of Tux, as soon as I find the time to do a compare of the assualt frigates. :) And try and convince him that a 10% tracking bonus would be just the thing for the Rifter. Tux, you know it makes sense bruv! FYI no ship gets 10% tracking per level. _______________

DarK	Posted - 2005.10.12 14:15:00 - [1367] Someone please send the minmatar pilots some cheese from holland or switzerland. So much attention they get Please spend 100% of your time on my Moa and Caracal please.
Khaldorn Murino	Posted - 2005.10.12 14:15:00 - [1368] Not yet! But with my bargaining powers and lots of beer, im telling you, we can set a precedent here 7.5 % and thats my final offer! Seriously tho, 10% bit much, but you run the numbers? It suits it quite well. - Just a simple warrior.

Tuxford	Posted - 2005.10.12 14:21:00 - [1369] I'll tell you what I do. I'll keep the 10% falloff bonus on the current Rifter on SiSi and put a 5% tracking bonus on Rifter MK2. Then I'll get someone to spawn it in fight club (heck I might even do it myself ) then you can give me some feedback on which one you'd like. I'm also gonna run some numbers and see whether a 10% damage bonus will make it overpowered. I've already said that Rifter is getting either a med slot or a low. A low would allow it to reach similar speed as before. A med slot would make it a damn good ship and imo a much better ship than it was before. _______________

Forsch	Posted - 2005.10.12 14:22:00 - [1370] Originally by: DarK Someone please send the minmatar pilots some cheese from holland or switzerland. So much attention they get Please spend 100% of your time on my Moa and Caracal please. Aye, so true. Khaldorn, if I don't see you in an MK2 Rifter every day after this debate, I'm gonna kill ya. (not like I wouldn't try to anyways..) The Auctoritan Syndicate Defenders of the Empire - Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Forsch	Posted - 2005.10.12 14:29:00 - [1371] Edited by: Forsch on 12/10/2005 14:29:16 Another thought for the Omen: (have to come up with something new at least once a day ) + speed + agility + 20m¦ drone bay - launcher slot = better suited for close range combat then maller due to high speed/agility = better damage than maller because of decent sized drone bay Just another option into the pool of Omen ideas. The Auctoritan Syndicate Defenders of the Empire - Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Khaldorn Murino	Posted - 2005.10.12 14:32:00 - [1372] Edited by: Khaldorn Murino on 12/10/2005 14:34:56 Originally by: Tuxford I'll tell you what I do. I'll keep the 10% falloff bonus on the current Rifter on SiSi and put a 5% tracking bonus on Rifter MK2. Then I'll get someone to spawn it in fight club (heck I might even do it myself ) then you can give me some feedback on which one you'd like. I'm also gonna run some numbers and see whether a 10% damage bonus will make it overpowered. I've already said that Rifter is getting either a med slot or a low. A low would allow it to reach similar speed as before. A med slot would make it a damn good ship and imo a much better ship than it was before. Tux, id love too mate. But my damn internet company still have not sorted out my connection at my spanky new flat mate (you know, an EVE break is good for the soul, but after a month, i need to be shooting some slavers!) However, I should be back in game within the week, and as soon as I am, ill grab a few of the guys and slavers and have a slug fest with the punishers and rifters and give you as much feedback as I can. 7% tracking bonus, my last offer! Forsch, ask your corp mates how many times they saw me in Rifters, admitedly, they blew most of them from beneath my pod, but I have an unholy love for that ship. You updating the test server with the extra slot? I dunno about where to put it, like you say, med sounds better, but until you get into one, its hard to say (at least for me anyway) - Just a simple warrior.
keepiru	Posted - 2005.10.12 14:46:00 - [1373] Edited by: keepiru on 12/10/2005 14:46:09 Tux, what about a tiny boost to the cap on the rax and brutix? For a race thats supposed to be armor-tanking oriented, its as hard to run stuff on them as it is on minm ships >_> ------------- WTB: a Faction Micro Smartbomb :P
Nafri	Posted - 2005.10.12 19:18:00 - [1374] Originally by: Tuxford I'll tell you what I do. I'll keep the 10% falloff bonus on the current Rifter on SiSi and put a 5% tracking bonus on Rifter MK2. Then I'll get someone to spawn it in fight club (heck I might even do it myself ) then you can give me some feedback on which one you'd like. I'm also gonna run some numbers and see whether a 10% damage bonus will make it overpowered. I've already said that Rifter is getting either a med slot or a low. A low would allow it to reach similar speed as before. A med slot would make it a damn good ship and imo a much better ship than it was before. Tracking and midslot -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Put your panties on your head!
Tiny Carlos	Posted - 2005.10.12 19:58:00 - [1375] Low slot 4tw
Darius Shakor	Posted - 2005.10.12 22:31:00 - [1376] Quote: Tux, id love too mate. But my damn internet company still have not sorted out my connection at my spanky new flat mate (you know, an EVE break is good for the soul, but after a month, i need to be shooting some slavers!) Heh, now you feel at least... half of the pain I had up to a few weeks ago. Tuxford, can I get a word on your thought about my posts here and here Appreciated. ------ Pain is meant to be felt. It is meant to exist.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.10.12 23:14:00 - [1377] Tux, While I agree that a midslot would make it more versatile, we allready have the Vigil for that. The lowslot would, imo, be more suitable. And under 1km, that tracking bonus will bef be better for us AC users. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Tomias Itaraou	Posted - 2005.10.12 23:45:00 - [1378] My idea for Omen 220 m/s speed Fusion Propulsion Strength of 8 110 meters sig radius It's still not as fast as a stabber - more like an rupture in tterms of speed.
Phelan Lore	Posted - 2005.10.13 01:51:00 - [1379] Originally by: Tiny Carlos Low slot 4tw Without the plate nerf I'd agree and stick a MAPC, 400mm plate, and small rep in there. But with the plate nerf coming, there really isn't anything useful to stick down there. Midslot please.
Franken Slammer	Posted - 2005.10.13 01:57:00 - [1380] I'm not entirely sure if this is the right thread for this, but i'll ask anyway. Is this change bringing in the flat increase of 25% hp? If it is, is this patch going to add 25% hp across the board to npc ships? If so, please will ccp reduce the size of missile, please? Having to refill teh ship with ammo on a lvl4 extravaganza is bad enough, but having to refill my hold TWICE in one mission is frankly taking the p1ss. COnfirmation of this ccp, is the 25% hp boost going onto npc's also? Thank you/

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