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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
8882
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Posted - 2013.04.27 16:08:00 -
[91] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:Dave Stark wrote:please explain the analytical process that makes "we're adding 71k trit to a batch of spod" turn in to "OMG HIGH SEC MINING IZ DEAD GUYZ".
I'd love to hear this enchanted fairy tale of woe and struggle. Demand is gonna be dead => Massive price drop => WTS Hulk 10m Malcanis wrote:I'll buy all the trit you want to sell at 0.6 ISK/pu They're free if you write the best eulogy for hisec mining in my contest.
Alas those poor hi-sec miners,
Those dear, departed whiners
They lamented the price of trit
And sounded like a right tit
Malcanis' Law:-á "Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of 'new players', that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players."
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Dave Stark
2886
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 16:09:00 -
[92] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Alas those poor hi-sec miners,
Those dear, departed whiners
They lamented the price of trit
And sounded like a right tit
brings a tear to the eye. |
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
446
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 16:11:00 -
[93] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Ban Bindy wrote:I don't see the logic in having to probe out ice belts when you won't even have to probe out grav sites any more. You won't. Ice belts will be anomalies, not signatures. It'll take at most a 10 second system scan (which seems to happen automatically when you enter a system or undock) and then you'll be on your way.
That's good news. See, I'm already liking the changes much better. |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
594
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 16:12:00 -
[94] - Quote
My belief is that it will be the high end minerals that will crash in price, as null miners start going after the B and C they currently leave sit now... because they'll be mining them to get the trit and pyr they need for construction of capitals, then dump the high ends for whatever they can get for them.
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Draydin Warsong
State Protectorate
Caldari State
8
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Posted - 2013.04.27 16:12:00 -
[95] - Quote
Meh, Mining was fine before the drone poo nerf so I suspect it will survive this. Now small corps with hisec POS (research type corps) are going to get the shaft in this. 20% less ice to go around is going to mean 800-1500 Million ISK or more to fuel POSs now :O. Ice prices have already almost doubled in Jita since yesterday. |
Dave Stark
2886
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 16:15:00 -
[96] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:My belief is that it will be the high end minerals that will crash in price, as null miners start going after the B and C they currently leave sit now... because they'll be mining them to get the trit and pyr they need for construction of capitals, then dump the high ends for whatever they can get for them.
no.
you are clueless about null sec mining.
null sec miners do not leave B and C ores just sitting there, at all. |
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
446
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 16:21:00 -
[97] - Quote
Draydin Warsong wrote:Meh, Mining was fine before the drone poo nerf so I suspect it will survive this. Now small corps with hisec POS (research type corps) are going to get the shaft in this. 20% less ice to go around is going to mean 800-1500 Million ISK or more to fuel POSs now :O. Ice prices have already almost doubled in Jita since yesterday.
High sec ice mining fuels everybody's poses, so this change won't just affect high sec. |
Souchek Lehman
Ten Thousand Years
Shinjiketo
12
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Posted - 2013.04.27 16:25:00 -
[98] - Quote
You know when James Amril-Kesh, Malcanis, Tippia, LHA Tarawa and Dave Stark all tell you your wrong you should probably take note.
These changes are great first steps to increase Indy in null/low. Increased Indy in null/low means increased points of in-space interaction. That's a good thing. The ice changes will create mad conflict between larger mining corps in high-sec and encourage those with the ability to "lockdown" certain systems that due to spacial geography can be controlled. That's a good thing. The economy might fluctuate some. Also good.
Anyway, no matter how much you cry it is happening and at the far end of it those of us telling you your wrong will be the ones having a lot of fun while you are stuck playing forum warrior online. So have fun with that guy.
10k and Shinjiketo are recruiting-See thread below.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=229061&find=unread |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
594
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 16:25:00 -
[99] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote:My belief is that it will be the high end minerals that will crash in price, as null miners start going after the B and C they currently leave sit now... because they'll be mining them to get the trit and pyr they need for construction of capitals, then dump the high ends for whatever they can get for them.
no. you are clueless about null sec mining. null sec miners do not leave B and C ores just sitting there, at all.
The beauty of this discussion.. vs.... say a discussion about politics, religion, or real world economics is here, all we have to do is wait about 6-8 weeks to see the effects.
I mine high sec ores, then sell the minerals to some friends of mine that build capitals in null. I talk to them a lot. First to go is Ark. Then is the mex producing rocks like Kern, Plag and Pyrox. H rocks are taken for Iso and Noc. Trit rocks of Veld and Scord never survive the 3-day respawn.
Then the B and C, may or not survive to respawn. Many times, these are the last "worthwhile" rocks to go, many popping due to respawn.
Then, of course, the Merc, Gen, Spod, Omber,... that always get left behind, except the large, where they are annoyance rocks, taken just to get the early respawn so you aren't forced to go mine more B and C in the giant.
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation
RAZOR Alliance
4745
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 16:25:00 -
[100] - Quote
Souchek Lehman wrote:James Amril-Kesh
God I hate that name. What the hell was I thinking. |
JD No7
Malevolent Intentions
Ineluctable.
39
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Posted - 2013.04.27 16:26:00 -
[101] - Quote
Hi-Sec mining was never fun. |
Dave Stark
2886
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 16:30:00 -
[102] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Dave Stark wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote:My belief is that it will be the high end minerals that will crash in price, as null miners start going after the B and C they currently leave sit now... because they'll be mining them to get the trit and pyr they need for construction of capitals, then dump the high ends for whatever they can get for them.
no. you are clueless about null sec mining. null sec miners do not leave B and C ores just sitting there, at all. The beauty of this discussion.. vs.... say a discussion about politics, religion, or real world economics is here, all we have to do is wait about 6-8 weeks to see the effects. I mine high sec ores, then sell the minerals to some friends of mine that build capitals in null. I talk to them a lot. First to go is Ark. Then is the mex producing rocks like Kern, Plag and Pyrox. H rocks are taken for Iso and Noc. Trit rocks of Veld and Scord never survive the 3-day respawn. Then the B and C, may or not survive to respawn. Many times, these are the last "worthwhile" rocks to go, many popping due to respawn. Then, of course, the Merc, Gen, Spod, Omber,... that always get left behind, except the large, where they are annoyance rocks, taken just to get the early respawn so you aren't forced to go mine more B and C in the giant.
some body in null sec is mining them, or the industry index of the system would decay and they'd have no grav sites to mine in.
trust me, asteroids aren't just "left there". |
Shidhe
The Babylon5 Consortuim
3
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Posted - 2013.04.27 16:33:00 -
[103] - Quote
People will still mine in high sec - it will still make money.
However I am a bit concerned about making null-sec even more independent. When we built a Mothership (as it was then) deep in nullsec, we had a huge logistics job moving stuff - largely trit - there. Lots of negotianion, lots of jump freighters, opportunities for piracy. Then it got easier. Now it will be even easier, with less travelling - and less opportunities for extended logistics chains and piracy then before. Just a comment... |
Dave Stark
2886
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 16:35:00 -
[104] - Quote
Shidhe wrote:People will still mine in high sec - it will still make money.
However I am a bit concerned about making null-sec even more independent. When we built a Mothership (as it was then) deep in nullsec, we had a huge logistics job moving stuff - largely trit - there. Lots of negotianion, lots of jump freighters, opportunities for piracy. Then it got easier. Now it will be even easier, with less travelling - and less opportunities for extended logistics chains and piracy then before. Just a comment...
i'll point out again, when making rokhs for every 1 large grav site worth of megacyte you mine, you need 32 large grav site's worth of trit. that's a 31 grav site worth of trit deficit. that's still going to have to be imported from high sec. |
Domina Trix
McKNOBBLER DRINKING CLAN
39
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Posted - 2013.04.27 16:38:00 -
[105] - Quote
ooo if everyone else stops mining like the OP suggests then there will be more rocks for me 
Two of the defining characteristics of a carebear are wanting other players to play the way the carebear wants and whining on the forums for the game to change when they don't. Yet I see more threads on these forums from gankers than I do miners whining about wanting the game changed to suit them. |
Velicitia
Nex Exercitus
1432
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 16:42:00 -
[106] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:
Alas those poor hi-sec miners,
Those dear, departed whiners
They lamented the price of trit
And sounded like a right tit
wish I could like this more than once.
One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Malcanis for CSM8 |
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
3310
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 16:42:00 -
[107] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Here's the point where I start asking myself why I insist on arguing with trolls. because like me, you've got nothing better to do while you watch the art team at fanfest? The Pegasus.
That's some assugly ship and it reminds me of Number 5. (the robot, from the movie) |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13865
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 16:47:00 -
[108] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Souchek Lehman wrote:James Amril-Kesh God I hate that name. What the hell was I thinking.
Report yourself and claim that it means GÇ£devs are mofosGÇ¥ in Sanskrit or some such, so you can get it changed.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Some Rando
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
860
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 16:51:00 -
[109] - Quote
JD No7 wrote:mining was never fun.
FTFY YW
CCP has no sense of humour. |
Karig'Ano Keikira
State War Academy
Caldari State
24
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 17:02:00 -
[110] - Quote
personally, I think that producing stuff in 0.0 can only be good for EVE - if indirect effect is lot more exploded barges in 0.0, all the better for economy :)
who knows, perhaps they will finally consider nerfing whole 'instant travel' mechanic if they manage to make 0.0 self-reliable for production and imo that would be major step forward |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
1755
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 17:18:00 -
[111] - Quote
Well, there will always be mining missions for those that truly enjoy mining. |
Friggz
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
82
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Posted - 2013.04.27 17:24:00 -
[112] - Quote
It seems logical to me that Null-sec mining should be more profitable than high-sec. If you want higher rewards, you have to assume higher risk. This isn't complicated and I don't see the problem.
High sec mining isn't going anywhere. No one is going to import trit from null when you can mine it or buy it next door. Yea, you get less of it per yield but who cares when you have 100 times as many people mining it? Mining profitability always finds it's own level. When minerals get valuable more people mine them, increasing supply and bringing the value back down. When prices get low, less people mine, they become more rare, and the price increases. It finds it's own level, it always has, it always will.
As for ice, there is quite a bit of misinformation in this thread.
Firstly, you don't have to probe out ice belts, they are being moved from signatures (the thingies you probe) to anomalies (the thingies you use your on-board scanner for). This is stated in the dev blog and was shown in the keynote presentation. They are in anoms to prevent the time-zone advantages inherent to belts spawning after downtime, not to tie into exploration or to prevent botting.
Secondly, Fozzie stated in his dev blog there will be enough high-sec ice to meet 80% of the universe's demands. How quickly the belts are mined out doesn't matter, what matters is the raw amount of ice entering the market. How quickly it's gone is just a measure of how many different pilots are mining it. The huge price increases right now are due to speculators, not supply and demand. Ultimately the prices probably will go up, but not astronomically.
Ultimately what this means is that more people will be mining both ore and ice in null sec. Together with the outpost changes, it means null sec industry might actually be viable. That means we will actually have pilots in space in null-sec doing things. This means you can interrupt your enemies' industry by camping their belts to deny them (because realistically all the miners will dock up the second you enter local) forcing fights and in general getting people out into space. That's a positive first step to fixing null.
Everytime you vote for Trebor, DNSBlack's Arazu dies. |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
10673
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 17:28:00 -
[113] - Quote
Friggz wrote:Quit yer bitchin' 
Fixed 
"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff-á |
Basil Pupkin
Why So Platypus
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 17:54:00 -
[114] - Quote
Domina Trix wrote:ooo if everyone else stops mining like the OP suggests then there will be more rocks for me
You can have all of the worthless rocks then. |
Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere
398
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 17:55:00 -
[115] - Quote
More like RIP wormhole mining.
Post with your main, like a BOSS! |
Basil Pupkin
Why So Platypus
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 17:57:00 -
[116] - Quote
Xen Solarus wrote:More like RIP wormhole mining.
Why is that? |
Some Rando
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
866
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 17:57:00 -
[117] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Alas those poor hi-sec miners,
Those dear, departed whiners
They lamented the price of trit
And sounded like a right tit
We elected a poet to the CSM :facepalm:
CCP has no sense of humour. |
Skeln Thargensen
Filthy Carebear Tax Avoidance Shell Corp
120
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 18:04:00 -
[118] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:Xen Solarus wrote:More like RIP wormhole mining. Why is that?
if grav sites become anomalies a cloaked SB can scan them down with shipscanner alone and warp to them.
though wh miners were never really safe from determined stalkers.
freelance space bum |
Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
333
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 18:11:00 -
[119] - Quote
Friggz wrote:Secondly, Fozzie stated in his dev blog there will be enough high-sec ice to meet 80% of the universe's demands. How quickly the belts are mined out doesn't matter, what matters is the raw amount of ice entering the market. How quickly it's gone is just a measure of how many different pilots are mining it. The huge price increases right now are due to speculators, not supply and demand. Prices probably will go up, but not astronomically.
The way it is designed seems to be a hard price floor on the cost of ice goods due to the nature of the fact that only so much ice can be mined in a given day. Therefore forcing POS owners to pay at a certain price no matter what. Wheras the current system allows for the price to go as low as as many people are mining as there was no hard limit to how much ice could be mined.
So it will generally be always more expensive to run a POS and I have seen complaints in game that POS's are too expensive to run now.
"Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby".
If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion
Fatal Ascension
2205
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 18:13:00 -
[120] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:Friggz wrote:Secondly, Fozzie stated in his dev blog there will be enough high-sec ice to meet 80% of the universe's demands. How quickly the belts are mined out doesn't matter, what matters is the raw amount of ice entering the market. How quickly it's gone is just a measure of how many different pilots are mining it. The huge price increases right now are due to speculators, not supply and demand. Prices probably will go up, but not astronomically.
The way it is designed seems to be a hard price floor on the cost of ice goods due to the nature of the fact that only so much ice can be mined in a given day. Therefore forcing POS owners to pay at a certain price no matter what. Wheras the current system allows for the price to go as low as as many people are mining as there was no hard limit to how much ice could be mined. So it will generally be always more expensive to run a POS and I have seen complaints in game that POS's are too expensive to run now.
Fortunately, vastly cheaper ships will soften the blow.
Also, ice used to be much more expensive than recent "non-speculative" prices, before the Mackinaw buffs went live.
Nice try, though.
He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller.
-Darth Gustav's Axiom |
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