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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 63 post(s) |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
648
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:22:00 -
[421] - Quote
tgl3 wrote:Ingvar Angst wrote:You know... this is actually a pretty worthless change when it comes to wormholes. It makes no sense at all. Usually a single corp / alliance lives in a hole, and no one comes in from other systems to do PI. It's completely not feasible. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever to change the way things work right now in wormholes. It really should be left as is in there. Pretty much this. There's no point in WHs having this because the only people using a WH's planets are those already living there. Noone else will use them, and noone else will shoot them. My 2 cents. GǪwhich means tax-free (or 100% taxed, which goes straight back into your own coffers) PI products produce en masse (because it's 0.0), which means you can outproduce and undercut all those silly highsecers. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
EI Digin
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
178
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:23:00 -
[422] - Quote
Handsome ******* wrote: Nice deflection there.
The hating isn't about danger but rather that PI will be coalesced to larger and larger groups like so many other things in EVE (sov, for instance).
It's a dead-end for the casual player now. Our best option is to stop selling our products, create a stockpile, and wait for the inevitable market price explosion.
If you "own" space, should you not have the ability to use it and deny everyone else access? Eve is a massive multiplayer game, if you choose to play "casually" you can keep your PI to highsec where there is no risk, or you can team up with friends or business partners and take over a constellation of lowsec or nullsec.
SokoleOko wrote: Perfect, yet another thing you can shoot/destroy only with capitals, because otherwise there are better things to do in evenings. So - an incentive to bring/use BLOBS. You have got to be insane to drop dreads on a structure with 7.5m ehp to shoot. For a comparison, a small pos has more or less the same amount of ehp, but customs offices will (should?) have less resists, and of course a customs office will have no guns.
Let's say you have a group of 15 friends who want to troll a larger alliance. You all take bombers and head on over to the system, it will take you about 15 to 20 minutes to reinforce the customs office, and much less time to destroy it if you decide to. It's easy griefing for little effort if you keep reinforcing (and killing) the same customs office over and over again.
Holy One wrote: Did it occur to you that the big alliances will just use alt corps to buy up all the CO's and shut them down, so they can control the price of everything from missiles to nanite paste and dictate the supply and demand based on their completely unassailable assets in null? As per usual? I'm just blown away by how ******** this idea is bro. Seriously. Did you learn nothing from technetium?
Try and stop us
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Zex Maxwell
Mad Bombers Guns and Alcohol
0
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:23:00 -
[423] - Quote
Here is an Idea:
If its not "worth it" for the capsuleers to fight over and we want to prevent greafing or blobbing. why not let the people from Dust 514 fight over it under the name of the corp. Matches will already be regulated by numbers. you can set a amount of capture time after a win of a match(one win = one day or somthing), and it will make the little Dust players feel more important.
Sure this won't fix the now, but It will at least hold the idea off till dust is done. lets face it, PI is as boring as Farmville with out Dust and currently all we are doing is milking a planetary cow.
Before we screw up PI even more, can we get Dust done where it would make better sense on why PI is needed in the first place? |
Andrea Griffin
33
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:24:00 -
[424] - Quote
Is there any possibility of combining a HP target AND an occupancy target?
The problem with a HP-only target is that you can drop a bob on the CO, reinforce it in 5 minutes, and move on. Plus, the HP is large enough to discourage small gang activity.
It would be awesome if it worked a little more like this:
CO is attacked. At 25% shields, the field must be occupied for 30 minutes. After 30 minutes of occupancy, it goes into reinforced.
If the HP is cut by half then the lone gunman will still be discouraged from attacking every CO he sees. With a timer involved at the same time, it really reduces the effectiveness of the blob. The blob can get through the HP quickly but still has to wait out the timer. An occupancy timer will keep people on the field and encourage PvP. It's not you guys who need to repair what has been broken, it's us. CCP Wrangler |
Sporx Utensil
Colossus Enterprises
0
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:26:00 -
[425] - Quote
David Grogan wrote:
way to go ccp you've just killed off PI
yep. really, really bad idea.
"game designer" in his ccp title.... lol can't stop laughing
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tgl3
Wormhole Engineers Review and Evaluation Greater Realms
11
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:26:00 -
[426] - Quote
Tippia wrote:tgl3 wrote:Ingvar Angst wrote:You know... this is actually a pretty worthless change when it comes to wormholes. It makes no sense at all. Usually a single corp / alliance lives in a hole, and no one comes in from other systems to do PI. It's completely not feasible. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever to change the way things work right now in wormholes. It really should be left as is in there. Pretty much this. There's no point in WHs having this because the only people using a WH's planets are those already living there. Noone else will use them, and noone else will shoot them. My 2 cents. GǪwhich means tax-free (or 100% taxed, which goes straight back into your own coffers) PI products produce en masse (because it's 0.0), which means you can outproduce and undercut all those silly highsecers. Had this pointed out to me in a chat channel a few minutes ago. Very true! \o/ |
Siigari Kitawa
Ironclad Forge
0
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:26:00 -
[427] - Quote
That font makes me want to claw my eyes out. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
46
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:26:00 -
[428] - Quote
Ingvar Angst wrote:Ingvar Angst wrote:Again... THIS IS A COMPLETELY WORTHLESS CHANGE IN WORMHOLES!
1. Only the people that live there do the PI there. We won't be charging our own corp/alliance taxes for the fuel they're making to help keep the pos running.
2. Holes last a maximum of 24 hrs. If someone comes in and puts one reinforced, the hole will close before they can pop it. Even if they pop it, they gain nothing. So, it's either wasted time and aggravation to put one reinforced and never get to finish the job, or it's an added pain in the ass for someone moving into a new hole to have to clean these pieces of crap out in order to set up their own.
The whole concept completely fails in wormholes. Please consider leaving wormhole space out of this. It only works in areas of high traffic where you can have people that are in direct competition with each other trying to do PI on a particular planet. THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN in wormholes!
C'mon CCP... THINK on this! CCP Omen - I may not be on the CSM, but could you take a moment to consider this? It really makes no sense to include wormholes in this change at all. I'm not going to tax myself or my corp, so there's no one to tax there. I have up to ten planets being worked, so I need to halt fuel production and come up with ten of these things that we won't use anyhow? This is a really really bad change with regards to J-space. Please take a moment to consider that.
Valid point, but there is more to it than that.
The new CO system can and will have an impact of corps that wish to take your wormhole, not to mention static wormholes that have fairly regular visitors.
If someone wishes to take over your WH, they have to consider that if they wish to fully utilize it they will need to spend the time to remove your infrastructure. I f they wish to harass you, they now have another way to do so.
If you wish to move to another WH, you too will have these same advantages and disadvantages to weigh.
Also, of course you can place a zero % tax on your CO... but most corps would consider at least a 5% tax on import/export. Especially when you consider that if your corp members were doing PI on an already less lucurative high sec planet they would be paying 10% now. In fact, under the current system they are already paying 5% with none of that going to benefit the corp. To kill the enemy and break their toys!
It's not so much a mission statement,-áit's more like a family motto. |
rootimus maximus
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:26:00 -
[429] - Quote
Looking forward to these changes. Any chance we'll also see the ability for corpmates to trade stuff planet-side (as we were promised when PI first came out?). It'd be nice to put more multiplayer into it. |
Herping yourDerp
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
168
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:27:00 -
[430] - Quote
now i know i'l never do PI outside of highsec
my ass will i pay additional taxes to some random guy or build/buy a customs office which we all know will be overpriced XD |
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Buruk Utama
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
19
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:29:00 -
[431] - Quote
I'm sorry, while this sounds like an interesting ideal, I don't think CCP has the ability to roll this out and not completely f'up the entire PI base. Look at the initial PI introduction and the problems and bugs that came with it. Do you really think they have the skill and patience to actually properly test this on SiSi like none of their other expansions-with-bugs.
CCP's history of rife with introduction and disinterest of new features. They like to start something but become bored with details and move to the next shiny new thing. The tax situation and roles are complicated and will need constant tweaking. I'm afraid this will be another faction war roll out. They will put it in there with all sorts of grand promises of doing something to tweak and fix but it will never occur. How many years has it been since anything was done to FW and now it is a place to get LP.
I especially find humorous the ideal that defense will be "new corporations coming together". They blatantly admit that there is no way to defend or prevent massive griefing and they "hope" the solution is people play well together. They don't see the irony in the current super-cap cluster blobs that roam around without any counter. I guess PL sitting in low sec with all their supers will play nice with the local corps wanting to do PI...maybe those small corps can come together and try to convince 1 super cap pilot to go agaubst the PL fleet in defense
This seems targeted at the oldest and largest alliances, this is a huge buff for them and a shot in the nuts for everyone else. I like how this is admitted with the statement "the small guy should use CONCORD owned custom offices." CCP knows these small guys will leave low sec now and fill the population of empire dwellers, leaving null and low even less populated. |
Buruk Utama
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
19
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:29:00 -
[432] - Quote
doublepost |
Della Monk
Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild
0
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:30:00 -
[433] - Quote
I have pretty much no relevant experience, but how about some sort of effect on tax collection when a CO is reinforced? Halve taxes or reduce them by some other fixed percentage, or wipe them out entirely. If someone overtaxes you, get some friends together and throw a little tea party when it's time to shift your goods. Provides incentive for the owner to set agreeable taxes, and mercenaries on both sides of things. |
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
24
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:30:00 -
[434] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:5 brutix at 800dp * 5 minutes = 1.2 million HP. Choose what gang size you want terrorizing the countryside... In any case, putting item in reinforce should be easier than killing it, because the fights never happen during the reinforcement period. Don't forget about resists. And cap stability over time. And ammo re-supply for those 5 BC.
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Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
169
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:30:00 -
[435] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Ingvar Angst wrote:Ingvar Angst wrote:Again... THIS IS A COMPLETELY WORTHLESS CHANGE IN WORMHOLES!
1. Only the people that live there do the PI there. We won't be charging our own corp/alliance taxes for the fuel they're making to help keep the pos running.
2. Holes last a maximum of 24 hrs. If someone comes in and puts one reinforced, the hole will close before they can pop it. Even if they pop it, they gain nothing. So, it's either wasted time and aggravation to put one reinforced and never get to finish the job, or it's an added pain in the ass for someone moving into a new hole to have to clean these pieces of crap out in order to set up their own.
The whole concept completely fails in wormholes. Please consider leaving wormhole space out of this. It only works in areas of high traffic where you can have people that are in direct competition with each other trying to do PI on a particular planet. THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN in wormholes!
C'mon CCP... THINK on this! CCP Omen - I may not be on the CSM, but could you take a moment to consider this? It really makes no sense to include wormholes in this change at all. I'm not going to tax myself or my corp, so there's no one to tax there. I have up to ten planets being worked, so I need to halt fuel production and come up with ten of these things that we won't use anyhow? This is a really really bad change with regards to J-space. Please take a moment to consider that. Valid point, but there is more to it than that. The new CO system can and will have an impact of corps that wish to take your wormhole, not to mention static wormholes that have fairly regular visitors. If someone wishes to take over your WH, they have to consider that if they wish to fully utilize it they will need to spend the time to remove your infrastructure. I f they wish to harass you, they now have another way to do so. If you wish to move to another WH, you too will have these same advantages and disadvantages to weigh. Also, of course you can place a zero % tax on your CO... but most corps would consider at least a 5% tax on import/export. Especially when you consider that if your corp members were doing PI on an already less lucurative high sec planet they would be paying 10% now. In fact, under the current system they are already paying 5% with none of that going to benefit the corp.
Tying the BPs to Concord LP... also stupid. Dude... we're in wormholes. Concord doesn't give us LP. No incursions into wormholes. Can they be built at a pos? Can they be done so cheaply? Or will we be stuck spending billions for enough of these to cover our planets just so we can make enough fuel to keep going? Six months in the hole... it changes a man. |
gargars
Cohesion Inc Beyond-Repair
12
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:31:00 -
[436] - Quote
Dirk Decibel wrote:CCP Omen wrote:[quote=gargars][quote=CCP Omen][quote=Rhavas]
We are ready to go when we have sifted through your feedback and made any necessary changes. For once we are not pressed for time, this is a good thing. The CSM were notified 2011.08.19 11:22:00, the design was shown to them and we made several tweaks as a result. If you want to see things UBER early the CSM is the place to be!
Regards Omen
I have asked our lovely community reps , and I can say this much about the release of this feature: between US Thanksgiving and Christmas
The CSM APPROVED of this?!?! :D
That's something I noticed right off. No comments on this from the CSM. I mean the last several blogs and announcements were manipulated in the forum so the first responses were from CSM members (and CCP Devs) in a pretty obvious attempt to tell us how we are supposed to think. Nice to see they have dropped that heavy-handed and insulting style, but seeing no CSM comments all of a sudden .... just something I noticed....
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Bliswonowon
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 18:34:00 -
[437] - Quote
Most nullsec alliances would not allow neutrals to run PI in their space, and certainly not for the microscopic amount of money they'd receive from PCO taxes. It's not even worth it for alliances that generally accept renters. Making the taxes much higher isn't an option either, because then (compounded with the costs involved in any nullsec logistics) highsec PI suddenly becomes more profitable. Isn't this completely obvious, or am I misunderstanding something here?
The proposed system doesn't create incentive to fight over planets either (except as random griefing and trolling by the likes of, well, us). If you want to make PI interesting, create an incentive to contest PCOs. Make some planets much higher quality than others, so that people might actually want to fight over them (and especially systems with multiple such planets) the same way we currently fight over moons. |
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
25
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 18:39:00 -
[438] - Quote
Chribba wrote:Interesting. This will surely turn into something making ammo producers happy AND Provi space holders!
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Lucas Kell
Lost Enterprises... SOLAR WING
9
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:40:00 -
[439] - Quote
I love how the biggest argument for this is that some magic ninja will come along setting up PCOs everywhere with a 9% tax, while everything else is getting ignored. I doubt most alliances will allow neuts to use their PCOs and any that do you can be damn sure tax will be a lot higher than 9%. And the argument "market prices" doesnt really work. The alliances WANT to control the market pries. If they are producing the PI at 0% tax while everyone else is paying 50% tax, they control the region market.
You are taking away a system that works well enough from every casual player and smal alliance that ventures out of highsec. There is NO way this is going to work out well for anyone except big alliances, and even they will have a small problem. What happens when during the night, a group pops into your systems and reinforces ALL of your PCOs. they will now all pop out of reinforced mode at the same time, and theres no way you could coordinate a defence for all of them in < 24 hours. If their defense isnt massively high, and you dont allow turrets with them, it will happen.
[edit] Also please note that the less people an alliance has do PI on its planet, the slower the drain of the resources on the plane is, so why would an alliance allow anyone but their own? [/edit] |
Mallikanth
Awakened Brotherhood The Brotherhood Alliance
17
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:41:00 -
[440] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote:Midnight Hope wrote:If you are going to blow up every PO on launch date, I hope you thought what you are going to do with all the stuff in those offices. Are you going to blow it up as well??
I can already see PI prices spiking, regardless of the increase in link capacity. The stuff that you have in the CO's will be teleported to a station hangar. I forgot the exact details of which station etc.
Hmmm magically teleported goods to a nearby Outpost or office in a low sec NPC station?
I'd prefer to see a proportion of whats in there ejected in cans. More "realism", more profit, more reason to protect, empty regularly and of course attack.
Believe in what they do, not what they say.
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Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
7
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:43:00 -
[441] - Quote
Mallikanth wrote:CCP Omen wrote:Midnight Hope wrote:If you are going to blow up every PO on launch date, I hope you thought what you are going to do with all the stuff in those offices. Are you going to blow it up as well??
I can already see PI prices spiking, regardless of the increase in link capacity. The stuff that you have in the CO's will be teleported to a station hangar. I forgot the exact details of which station etc. Hmmm magically teleported goods to a nearby Outpost or office in a low sec NPC station? I'd prefer to see a proportion of whats in there ejected in cans. More "realism", more profit, more reason to protect, empty regularly and of course attack.
That refers to the current existing CO (owned by NPCs), not the later player built ones. So, come deployment day, all those get deleted and their contents relocated. |
DuKackBoon
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:44:00 -
[442] - Quote
[Sheridan voice]YES!!![/Sheridan voice] |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
46
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:44:00 -
[443] - Quote
Ingvar Angst wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Ingvar Angst wrote:Ingvar Angst wrote:Again... THIS IS A COMPLETELY WORTHLESS CHANGE IN WORMHOLES!
1. Only the people that live there do the PI there. We won't be charging our own corp/alliance taxes for the fuel they're making to help keep the pos running.
2. Holes last a maximum of 24 hrs. If someone comes in and puts one reinforced, the hole will close before they can pop it. Even if they pop it, they gain nothing. So, it's either wasted time and aggravation to put one reinforced and never get to finish the job, or it's an added pain in the ass for someone moving into a new hole to have to clean these pieces of crap out in order to set up their own.
The whole concept completely fails in wormholes. Please consider leaving wormhole space out of this. It only works in areas of high traffic where you can have people that are in direct competition with each other trying to do PI on a particular planet. THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN in wormholes!
C'mon CCP... THINK on this! CCP Omen - I may not be on the CSM, but could you take a moment to consider this? It really makes no sense to include wormholes in this change at all. I'm not going to tax myself or my corp, so there's no one to tax there. I have up to ten planets being worked, so I need to halt fuel production and come up with ten of these things that we won't use anyhow? This is a really really bad change with regards to J-space. Please take a moment to consider that. Valid point, but there is more to it than that. The new CO system can and will have an impact of corps that wish to take your wormhole, not to mention static wormholes that have fairly regular visitors. If someone wishes to take over your WH, they have to consider that if they wish to fully utilize it they will need to spend the time to remove your infrastructure. I f they wish to harass you, they now have another way to do so. If you wish to move to another WH, you too will have these same advantages and disadvantages to weigh. Also, of course you can place a zero % tax on your CO... but most corps would consider at least a 5% tax on import/export. Especially when you consider that if your corp members were doing PI on an already less lucurative high sec planet they would be paying 10% now. In fact, under the current system they are already paying 5% with none of that going to benefit the corp. Tying the BPs to Concord LP... also stupid. Dude... we're in wormholes. Concord doesn't give us LP. No incursions into wormholes. Can they be built at a pos? Can they be done so cheaply? Or will we be stuck spending billions for enough of these to cover our planets just so we can make enough fuel to keep going?
Then buy them off of the market like most people will do 5 minutes after the become available in the LP stores, build them in any station with a factory slot, haul and drop it into place.
There are already lists of components out there tor construction. If you do the math you won't be spending "billions" to cover your 10 planets.
From that point on you can produce 100% tax free goods, while everyone in high sec (or using someone elses CO in low sec as will be extremely common) will be losing 10% off the top.
Well worth the investment on 10 planets... even more worthwhile if you run more. To kill the enemy and break their toys!
It's not so much a mission statement,-áit's more like a family motto. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
10
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:46:00 -
[444] - Quote
Esker Sheep wrote:pussnheels wrote: But why low sec aswell , it is empire controlled right , sure there is no concord but it is empire controlled Alot of us already taking a risk , granted a low risk doing pi in low sec so why make it harder and more cumbersome for us
honestly i don't see any pro in this except if you are a large nullsec alliance
You can moon mine in low sec right? Why not operate customs offices. Stations in low sec systems are run by different corps. Why can't the customs offices. There is logic behind this.
The difference is you need a certain minimum standings with the empire faction to anchor a POS. |
Zey Nadar
Aliastra Gallente Federation
9
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:47:00 -
[445] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote:Ra Voreen wrote:How will it work in null-sec ? Are the planets still reserved to the alliance that holds sov ? We are undecided on this topic, it could go either way right now any preference? Regards Omen
Absolutely NO tie-up to sovereignty whatsoever. Make it like poses, put them up where you will, nothing to do with sov.
You can introduce discounts to costs for sov-holders or whatever, but please please please do not restrict building of the offices. We have enough unused empty sovereignty space already. |
Trainwreck McGee
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
66
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:47:00 -
[446] - Quote
It's really quite cheap to create your own one man corporation. Also, the "little" guy is adviced to use CONCORD's customs offices in High-Sec.
Regards Omen
HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA you got to be ******* kidding me. Can we get a new head of PI dept? CCP Trainwreck - Weekend Custodial Engineer / CCP Necrogoats foot stool |
Damien Ganvi
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:47:00 -
[447] - Quote
Liu Ellens wrote:I was hoping to read about one feature: Make these custom offices be available for courier-contracts! But was highly disappointed...
..snip..
I love the suggestion for courier contracts directly to Customs Offices... great suggestion! |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
19
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:47:00 -
[448] - Quote
Great, so now someone who runs PI in a quiet low sec system on a small scale basis is screwed. Now they have to put up PI structures within said quiet low sec system, with a "blow me up" sign on them.
Small scale low end PI in low sec is now dead for small corps. Once again, CCP has developed something for the huge alliances, and screwed the little guy.
It is one thing to dodge the gankers in low sec to do PI, it quite another to fight alliances.
All hail the megacorps and mega alliances. |
Victor Akulla
Kraken Industries
0
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:49:00 -
[449] - Quote
This is kind of a waist of time. Most people who do PI farm mulitple planets and run Ninja-PI so they will have to switch to Can Launches cuz no way Im going to pay someone else for my hard work. The the other thing is just one CO will be so cost prohibitive that it will not be worth the effort. Plus 99% of the time with respect to low sec there is only one player sucking stuff of the planet ( I have yet to see another person on one of the planets I farm), so it would take years to recoup the investment of the CO. Plus after about 4 months the planet will become sucked dry and you will be left with a useless Customs office.
In the average system there are 6 to 10 planets, so what will happen to the planets without CO, only Can launches will be available?
Who ever came up with this idea must not know anything about running a real PI operation in Low Sec. High sec is a non issue and well in null there is no point since the Guild will probably own the area and why charge themselves for PI transfers. All you really are doing is adding to the already bored gate campers agenda by giving them more things to shoot at, please don't do this its such a waist of resources use the programming time to fix stuff that is broken.
Very Respectfully
VA
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Shayla Sh'inlux
Eve Space Exploration Guild
2
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:50:00 -
[450] - Quote
Oh great. Another nerf to the already completely pointless place that is lowsec!
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