Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 [40] 50 60 .. 61 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 63 post(s) |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
744
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 02:48:00 -
[1171] - Quote
Tas Nok wrote:
Recap of my post # 785 I spent 114 mil to get started in PI I spent 65 mil to get re-started once the extractor head changes were made I am looking at a total of roughly 560mil to get started a 3rd time once this happens
I can bear the costs if the prices go high enough, which under the current scheme they surely will
If you think that spending 114M or 65M is a lot - since even hi-sec PI harvest planets pay off within 2 weeks, then I don't know what you're doing with all of that ISK. Hi-sec PI harvest planets reliably generate 18-24M ISK per month (per planet).
As for the complaint about the 560M for the 3rd time around - get a few other people together and split the costs. |
Iakim Akrelthor
Gradient Electus Matari
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 03:20:00 -
[1172] - Quote
What will happen to my spaceports? Will they dissappear? I currently use them as my primary storage, as actual storage buildings have too little space.
If they do, will the stuff inside it teleport to a station? |
Zeronic
Zero Core Labs United Abominations
5
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 03:35:00 -
[1173] - Quote
"Oh and one more thing, we have increased the bandwidth on all planetary links by a factor of five! Get those materials flowing!" Source: CCP Omen, on behalf of Team Pi
I look at that on WHY, One they have never done think kind of adjustment to anything else in-game. Quick example is the Survey Scanner, Max Distance on a T2 is 22.5k, an Orca running links can out distance that easy, Rorqual even farther. Did they ever make an adjustment to those when the ships came out. I think the refocus on Eve Online need to be a re-polishing of the game. Start with the biggest things first and stop with this new content that hurts the market. Alliance and Corporation Menus and Roles and Player Own Stations are the two biggest things that need to be fix. I'm not even going to get in to Drones, that need a complete code rebuild. |
Marsan
Production N Destruction INC.
14
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 04:40:00 -
[1174] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote:You have some cool ideas but why do you assume the larger corporation won't tolerate you? Do people hate money all of a sudden? On a serious note, do you actually think they are more likely to disallow you? We are operating under the assumption that most PCO owners will allow "neutral" at least for the extra dough.
Omen if you'd ever spent time in w-space with a WH corp you'd know that the policy of even indy corps is to push out anyone who isn't an ally from your wormhole. The best you can expect from a WH corp is for them to show you the door or let you transit. |
Kassasis Dakkstromri
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
115
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 04:56:00 -
[1175] - Quote
Iakim Akrelthor wrote:What will happen to my spaceports? Will they dissappear? I currently use them as my primary storage, as actual storage buildings have too little space.
If they do, will the stuff inside it teleport to a station?
Material stored in the Custom's Office will be ported to a station location - Spaceports are not affected by this feature in any way. |
Kassasis Dakkstromri
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
115
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 05:06:00 -
[1176] - Quote
Meldan Anstian wrote:Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:Meldan Anstian wrote:
I really think that any solution must:
1. provide income enough to be worthwhile 2. have incentive to both attack and defend the source of that income 3. not dramatically effect the economy (ie quadrupling the cost of PI materials would be too dramatic) 4. closely related to # 3, but worth mentioning separately, allows PI production to be fairly painless, fairly low income vs other activities. I don't think the goal of this change is to dramatically change PI itself.
Colony population and/or Commodity Refinement levels (Temperate planets will obviously generate greater tariff revenue than a Gas Planet will) will be the mechanism to generate worthwhile tariff revenue, not the tariff rate itself. Hmm, not sure what you are trying to say here. Certainly agree that different planets will generate different levels of income based on the resources of that planet. How much resources being pulled off the planet is the tax base. How much income is generated from the tax base is a function of the tax rate, which is a percentage of the tariff. A high tax rate would cause people to use another planet or use launches to minimize the costs.
I was attempting to refocus away from the tarif percentage, and instead on the important factors:
First, processing commodities to higher levels will result in higher tariff revenues.
The second point was that the more colonies you have on planet, the greater quantity and frequency of export.
It is these two things that will generate a viable income from POCO's. |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
744
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 05:23:00 -
[1177] - Quote
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote: While I respect your position, I STRONGLY disagree with this...
Primarily because, if ownership information even via direct "Show Info" click is absent, then you exclude the ability of a pilot to potentially seek membership in that corp to conduct their P.I.
Further, even generalizing POCO's from POCO's on advanced planets as being present in system - without numbers or locations is far better than not - And even if it provides a list of targets, then it only lends itself to increased player interaction.
But ultimately, I absolutely disagree with this as EVE has reached a point of complexity where such searchability lends itself to distilling player choice in how they spend their game time. I myself experience this when I might take a day or more just planning and taking steps towards an ingame action; to fly a significant distance just to find nothing is neither intelligent game design nor common sense. We have a Map search function for planets for a reason - or should we regress to scan probes on every planet and give up remote sensing?
Fair enough. The issue is more of one where I see POCOs as equivalent to POS assets, which are not listed on the map and which you cannot know the location of unless you have someone in the corporation tell you where POS towers are located. One of the reasons why POS towers survive sometimes is because nobody is motivated enough to scan down every tower in the system. The other reason that POS towers survive is because they can anchor defenses.
With POCOs being easily searched for using the S&I window (assuming that makes it into production), they have neither the anonymity of POS towers on d-scan nor the defenses of a POS tower to fall back on to keep griefers at bay.
Ultimately, I think the solution to the dilemma is going to be that they need to come in multiple sizes (a 20M version, 40M version, and a 80M version) with the same PG/CPU as S/M/L POS towers with some restrictions about what can be anchored around them. Otherwise, they're going to have the lifespan of a flea in lo-sec (even if they don't drop anything, the fact that griefers can easily kill them is going to be incentive enough).
Maybe restrict them so that they cannot anchor any offensive weapons (only ECM, Sensor Damps, Webs and Hardeners). |
Meldan Anstian
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
54
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 05:57:00 -
[1178] - Quote
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
I was attempting to refocus away from the tarif percentage, and instead on the important factors:
First, processing commodities to higher levels will result in higher tariff revenues.
The second point was that the more colonies you have on planet, the greater quantity and frequency of export.
It is these two things that will generate a viable income from POCO's.
Ahh, I understand you now.
I agree that processing commodities to higher levels would result in higher revenues. So why not just ship low level commodities to a high sec production planet and pay only a 10% tax (both on import and export)? Based on the best numbers we have, it makes no sense to install a 80 mill ISK PCO and charge anything near a low 10% tax. So get it off planet in either raw material or more likely processed material form.
A few hundred posts in the thread ago, I calculated that it's about 6 times (from memory, exact number may be different) more expensive tax wise to export a unit of robotics, than it is to export all the processed materials to make a unit of robotics. So the obvious incentive is to import low level materials into the lowest tax planet around and manufacture higher level commodities, most likely in high sec.
More colonies on a planet does mean more income, until the planet is depleted of resources. Attracting PI to your planet is good , up to a point, and then your income is limited to the rate the resources are replenished on the planet.
According to those in WH's, it doesn't take many people to deplete a planet, less than 10, but I'm sure it would vary planet to planet. |
|
CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
336
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 06:46:00 -
[1179] - Quote
Alx Warlord wrote:Will POCOs gives us kill-mails? it will be shown on killboards? ( Depending on the answer people will hunt them for fun or not )
Yes like POSs, POCOs generate kill mails. CCP Nullarbor | Exotic Dancer |
|
Kim Lesley Hartman
Hartman Ornamental Confectionery and Pies The 20 Minuters
21
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 07:00:00 -
[1180] - Quote
Andy Landen wrote:We all know the prices will go up, the taxes will go up, the ability to get product out will go down, cost of control will go up, and the risk of ships will go up. Prices up = good for PI guys, bad for pos guys and indy guys. Demand falls of course. Pos's are retired being unprofitable. Taxes up = good for Control guys, bad for PI guys. There goes PI profit. Product logistics = risky to non-existant, bad for PI guys. Barring any other problem, if product is stuck, it is worthless. Cost of control/ships = high. Bad for PI. Even if the fight for PI is worth it (high prices), the taxes are low, and the logistics is free, the cost of losing ships and buying the PI control center easily and quickly removes all profitability. Let alone the effect on demand for retired POS's with higher fuel prices and for other indy activities.
If CCP can limit the maximum tax rate, prevent PI logistics disruption, and increase the amount of product the colonies can process and extract, this might work OK. Increases the product per colony will actually allow people to care (more ISK) enough to fight over it while helping reduce product cost so that the infrastructure which uses it doesn't collapse. If CCP wants more fighting over PI, increase the 0.0 yield and processing ability while decreasing HS product yield. Don't do anything else.
Problem with that is that once you push profitability beyond a certain point the powerblocs come in and put their foot down. Again forcing small or specialized industrialists to either give up their independence or go out of business. Which again is already the defacto situation in null and thus little will change.
I really don't think it would help EVE however if powerblocks would start controlling lowsec in the sameway, that won't hurt just industrialists that will also hurt smaller more nomadic pirate entities who by their playstyle bring a unique flavour to lowsec.
|
|
Internet Knight
The Kobayashi Maru
11
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 07:05:00 -
[1181] - Quote
Some further thoughts:
Similar to how bounties are delayed up to 15 minutes, I think paid tariffs should be delayed until downtime. That should help remove using it to find free loot pinatas. If you're silly enough to use an enemy customs office near downtime and then log in after downtime, you pretty much deserve to be killed IMO because everyone knows downtime is a key nightmare for various tactics.
DON'T remove customs offices outside of highsec when this goes live. They should be owned by CONCORD (actually, the Secure Commerce Commission and NOT CONCORD - let's get our backstory correct here!!) until players take them over.
IF they are destroyable, then perhaps, like command centers, you should have a small customs office to start with and then pay to upgrade it if it's worth it. Small customs office that you can deploy and all but care about whether or not it gets blown up.
IF they are destroyable, then remove (just like other anchorable stuff) after X amount of time of non-use. I think the standard time is a little long in this case; if you're ignoring your PI for 2+ weeks, then you're obviously not interested in actually using the PI and should let it roll over to someone else. But the timing is something that can be worked out.
IF they are destroyable, there should be a new skill enabled by the CEO (similar to Corporation Management and Ethnic Relations, etc) which allows X number of customs offices per level. That should further help reduce spamming customs offices for free ISK and hoarding planets. Higher level skills with even more allowed customs offices can be entered with a requirement of also training up the corporation management skill tree. Since starbases aren't required for sovereignty any more, I think it's worth considering a similar skillset for those too, further preventing starbase spam in highsec. Both cases should have, in my opinion, charisma as primary
ALSO:: Consider this!!! I don't think ANYONE has brought it up! Player X gathers resources on planet 1, exports to planet 2. Pays export tariff on planet 1, import tariff on planet 2. Player X then produces tier 2 stuff on planet 2, exports to planet 3. Pays export tariff on planet 2, import tariff on planet 3. Player X then produces tier 3 stuff on planet 3, exports to planet 4. Pays export tariff on planet 4, import tariff on planet 4. Player X then produces tier 4 stuff on planet 4. Pays export tariff on planet 4.
At current NPC tariff levels of 5%, that's profitable (net 35% tariff, ouch... there's where production en mass comes in). But if you have corporations setting it to 100%, there's almost zero profit for anyone but the customs-owning corporation. I would say a maximum of 20% tariff. Any higher than that and you're reaching negative returns.
|
Meldan Anstian
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
54
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 07:18:00 -
[1182] - Quote
Internet Knight wrote:
Consider this!!! I don't think ANYONE has brought it up! Player X gathers resources on planet 1, exports to planet 2. Pays export tariff on planet 1, import tariff on planet 2. Player X then produces tier 2 stuff on planet 2, exports to planet 3. Pays export tariff on planet 2, import tariff on planet 3. Player X then produces tier 3 stuff on planet 3, exports to planet 4. Pays export tariff on planet 4, import tariff on planet 4. Player X then produces tier 4 stuff on planet 4. Pays export tariff on planet 4.
At current NPC tariff levels of 5%, that's profitable (net 35% tariff, ouch... there's where production en mass comes in). But if you have corporations setting it to 100%, there's almost zero profit for anyone but the customs-owning corporation. I would say a maximum of 20% tariff. Any higher than that and you're reaching negative returns.
So 1 person would have 4 production planets?
Nah, 5 extraction planets and then 1 production planet. 1 production planet can consume the resources from multiple extraction planets pretty easily.
Pays export taxes on the 5 extraction planets, import on the production planet and then export on the production as well. Saves a ton of import/export taxes on the middle planets in your scenario. |
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
65
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 07:26:00 -
[1183] - Quote
Plz for the love of god add a new PI skill for this.
One that limits the number of POCO just like the one that limits the number of plants that you can put comand centers on.
Out side of that all I have to say is omg glad I got out of trying to run POS and switched to just sucking the isk from thoughs that do. |
Anela Cistine
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
109
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 07:36:00 -
[1184] - Quote
Kim Lesley Hartman wrote:Problem with that is that once you push profitability beyond a certain point the powerblocs come in and put their foot down. Again forcing small or specialized industrialists to either give up their independence or go out of business. Which again is already the defacto situation in null and thus little will change.
I really don't think it would help EVE however if powerblocks would start controlling lowsec in the sameway, that won't hurt just industrialists that will also hurt smaller more nomadic pirate entities who by their playstyle bring a unique flavour to lowsec.
Good news: power blocks don't care about PI. Even if it became much more profitable, the rank and file pvpers HATE shooting structures, and would not want to go clean out hundreds of undefended structures on a monthly basis so that their industrialists could make a little more money. Sometimes it is hard to get them to come out and reinforce nearby tech moons, never mind some lowsec planet customs office.
Money moons generate money directly for the corp or alliance. PI can't be done on a corp level, so it only generates profit for individuals. Allowing corps to tax PI will let them generate a little income from PI in their own territory, so they might care about defending their own POCOs. Destroying POCOs in NPC space won't generate any income for them, nor will it deny income to any important enemies, so there is no reason for alliance leaders to care about it at all.
NPC PI has no affect on block income. It has no strategic importance. And destroying POCOs will generate no tears, no rage in local, because most of the time there won't be any one there. High sec blue ice is concentrated in a handful of systems which makes it easy to blockade, PI will be done in hundreds of systems and be impossible to blockade. Bored roaming gangs might take a few potshots, but that's it. It is not a strategic target. The threat in NPC space won't be huge power blocks, it will be local pirates.
The best protection would simply be to make them small and cheap, so that lots and lots of people put them up. If they get knocked down, you just put up a new one.
Maybe have more than one size POCO? The large size could be what we've seen already, suitable for big operations and highsec. The small would be suitable for ninja PI guys, and could be something like:
2000m^3 to transport, so you can fit 4-5 of them in a blockade runner. 10,000^3 storage space, the same as a launch pad, so you can't store a ton of stuff in them. 10,000,000 isk, so you can make back your investment in a reasonable time. Lower hit points, so it isn't worth dropping caps, but a small pirate gang can easily take them down with battleships.
|
Sashaaa
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
15
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 07:40:00 -
[1185] - Quote
Holy One wrote:Red Zaya wrote:And dont be surprised if after one or two month you have crowds of people whining for another nerf ...
... and a few k less subscriptions than before you started.
2 of my 4 accounts are Indy based.
They will not be renewed if this crap comes in. |
Holy One
SniggWaffe EVE Corporation 123566322353
173
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 08:13:00 -
[1186] - Quote
Tas Nok wrote: Good logic but flawed: given that many folks in PI already have established networks on many planets they are going to want to continue to do so especially once prices spike high enough to warrant this additional investment
Recap of my post # 785 I spent 114 mil to get started in PI I spent 65 mil to get re-started once the extractor head changes were made I am looking at a total of roughly 560mil to get started a 3rd time once this happens
I can bear the costs if the prices go high enough, which under the current scheme they surely will
Higher prices just means higher costs. |
Holy One
SniggWaffe EVE Corporation 123566322353
173
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 08:16:00 -
[1187] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Alx Warlord wrote:Will POCOs gives us kill-mails? it will be shown on killboards? ( Depending on the answer people will hunt them for fun or not ) Yes like POSs, POCOs generate kill mails.
*facepalm |
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
493
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 08:52:00 -
[1188] - Quote
Scrapyard Bob wrote:Which is something that I think CCP needs to address - currently, to run lab / manuf slots on a POS tower with prices in the 350M/mo range for a large tower, you're looking at a cost of 8000-9500 ISK/hr. Right now, if you have a 60-slot POS tower and are paying 500M ISK/mo, then you have to plan on spending 11,300 per hour on fuel per slot.
Anything that makes over 1 mil/slot/day in profit will easily pay that back and then some, if you consider the 33% increase in production from the build time bonus. What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644 |
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
493
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 09:01:00 -
[1189] - Quote
Arra Lith wrote: Suggestion
1) There is no CO at planet: Anyone can anchor and online Costoms Office Gantry.
2) Once placed and upgraded to Customs Office it goes active to use and invulnerable.
3) To attack CO attackers need to anchor and online their own CO Gantry. It can be attacked immediatelly, and time to online should be short (15-30 mins - just enough to alert defenders so they can organise fleet)
4) When attackers Gantry onlines defenders CO goes vulnerable and can be attacked.
5-a) If attackers CO gets destroyed defenders CO goes back to invulnerable mode. 5-b) If defenders CO gets to 25% shields it goes invulnerable, as well as attackers CO.
6) After reinforce ends and defenders lose their own CO attackers have option to upgrade it from Gantry to working CO (and collect isk from taxes) - it then goes invulnerable (going back to step 2); or they can unanchor their structure, leaving planet without CO (going back to step 1).
--edit-- There still can be only one working CO at same time. If second Gantry is anchored it cannot be accessed from planet - its used only to make active Customs Office vulnerable, (ie by breaking energy link with planet that makes shield inpenetrable).
I quite like this, but I'd make the defender CO go into reinforce as soon as the attacker CO is online. This saves the attackers some boring structure shooting, and makes more gang styles viable for it.
Then you can take my original suggestion in the thread and give the structures high resists, so the fight after the time becomes something of a capture the flag game. You need to drive off the opposite gang to kill their CO, while remote repping your own so it doesn't get destroyed. What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644 |
Toshiro GreyHawk
166
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 09:01:00 -
[1190] - Quote
Just one comment on the repeated assertion that this is an MMO and therefore players must be FORCED into playing with other players.
NO.
Remember the sand box bit?
If someone wants to go off and play in there own little corner of the sand box - the game shouldn't be designed to prevent them from doing so.
Obviously there are many things that benefit from a cooperative effort - but - FORCING people to do ANYTHING - is a mistake. They will just leave. You can not after all FORCE them to continue playing.
Now ... besides that - take the next logical step.
Where in the same logic could be applied to matters of scale. You could just as easily say - that small corporations aren't "massive" enough - and that people should be FORCED to all join large corporations.
The POCO issue in Lo Sec is one such example. If you don't have a large corporation - the people that do have them are simply going to force you out of your POCO - simply because they can - so they will.
As it sits right now - a small corporation or an individual - can Ninja PI in Lo Sec. but if they own something down there - that's just sitting around waiting for people to blow it up - especially if it's dependent on only the ships of that corporation to defend it - it will be. At least with a POS you can create one strong enough to take some real effort to destroy it. The only effort required to destroy a POCO is time. So they sit there and BS while they drink beer and use Lasers (no ammunition consumption) to grind away at the target POCO - all the time HOPING the owners will show up and give them a fight.
Thus - small corporations or individuals - simply will not use POCO's. Since most of the people who go down to Lo Sec are NOT industrialists - they're not going to be using them either. Thus - a failure of time and effort spent on adding them to the game.
Now - if they were allowed in Hi Sec - then someone might be able to make some money off of them but mostly not.
All in all this was simply a stupid idea, you know - like New Coke?
They had a test panel too that thought that New Coke was a great idea too ...
. |
|
Spanking Monkeys
ZC Industries Dark Stripes
12
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 09:11:00 -
[1191] - Quote
Jack Dant wrote:Scrapyard Bob wrote:Which is something that I think CCP needs to address - currently, to run lab / manuf slots on a POS tower with prices in the 350M/mo range for a large tower, you're looking at a cost of 8000-9500 ISK/hr. Right now, if you have a 60-slot POS tower and are paying 500M ISK/mo, then you have to plan on spending 11,300 per hour on fuel per slot. Anything that makes over 1 mil/slot/day in profit will easily pay that back and then some, if you consider the 33% increase in production from the build time bonus.
the 33% dosnt make up for the extra costs and other issues with pos manufature. im looking at around 300k/h at a pos with the set up im using or 30k/h in station. so i can increase margins on the same goods. not have to fartarse about trying to spred all my manufacturing over 12 hangers in space all anchoured within 3km from each (pos's suck ass). i dont have to cram all my stuff need for a set of jobs in a hanger with only 1mil m3 volume, i dont have to deal with 6 jobs ending at this time 5 ending at that, cos in a station i can just spam jobs upto 50/outpost.
the single biggest part of my 7 bil monthly shopping list of materials is robotics now. it accounts for about 600mil. pre pi it was about 70-100mil. soon it will be over 1bil for the same items.
ultimatly this change will most likly just stop me inventing and manufacturing from anything aside bpo's, i know of other manufactures that are in the same frame of mind, ccp is turning this game into more of a job with this than it already is, if pi wasnt already as mind numbing as watching paint dry, its getting worse cos now every few days you gotta go rep your 80mil or lose it. |
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
493
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 09:16:00 -
[1192] - Quote
Toshiro GreyHawk wrote: As it sits right now - a small corporation or an individual - can Ninja PI in Lo Sec. but if they own something down there - that's just sitting around waiting for people to blow it up - especially if it's dependent on only the ships of that corporation to defend it - it will be. At least with a POS you can create one strong enough to take some real effort to destroy it. The only effort required to destroy a POCO is time. So they sit there and BS while they drink beer and use Lasers (no ammunition consumption) to grind away at the target POCO - all the time HOPING the owners will show up and give them a fight.
Thus - small corporations or individuals - simply will not use POCO's. Since most of the people who go down to Lo Sec are NOT industrialists - they're not going to be using them either. Thus - a failure of time and effort spent on adding them to the game.
You keep looking at this wrong. Let's say you are a PVP corp living in lowsec. You have no interest in doing PI yourself. But for a small price you can setup a POCO that will give 100% passive income. And every so often, it will attract the attention of some other entity, and create the rarest thing in eve PVP: a fight in the middle of space, with no gate, station or force field to run back to.
If the price of POCO is right, why wouldn't you do it?
What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644 |
Pesadel0
the muppets RED.OverLord
26
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 09:37:00 -
[1193] - Quote
Sashaaa wrote:Holy One wrote:Red Zaya wrote:And dont be surprised if after one or two month you have crowds of people whining for another nerf ...
... and a few k less subscriptions than before you started. 2 of my 4 accounts are Indy based. They will not be renewed if this crap comes in.
4 of my accounts are PVP focused will renew 3 to kill poco if this comes in. |
Venkul Mul
Vikramaditya
10
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 10:08:00 -
[1194] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote:Ra Voreen wrote:How will it work in null-sec ? Are the planets still reserved to the alliance that holds sov ? We are undecided on this topic, it could go either way right now any preference? Regards Omen
How will it work in wormholes?
Edit: you have resolved the problem with accessing structure hangars (like a POS), for members of different corporations? Or you have simply copied a piece of the stations hangars code? |
Holy One
SniggWaffe EVE Corporation 123566322353
173
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 10:18:00 -
[1195] - Quote
So to sum up.
As things stand 50% of PI is done in high sec.
After the changes, 90% of PI will be done in highsec but by far fewer people.
A lot of advanced mass production, invention and mfg will simply cease in high and low sec due to prohibitively high set up costs and raw materials.
Everything from pos fuel to heavy missiles is gonna skyrocket. Resulting in more isk in the hands of the few and less pvp/even more risk aversion from the sheeple hordes in high sec.
Nobody in null sec is gonna bother with PI. WH PI will become insanely profitable and be largely risk free.
A lot of 'independant' industrialists will quit PI or move to high sec and downscale their operations ie. accounts.
CCP will lose money. Low sec will have even less occupants, the game will not be enriched, the subscriber base will not be diversified. The blob will grow. Over time, there will be fewer trial conversions as the time:isk required to get involved in any meaningful activity in game gets higher and higher.
Win for the dude who'll re-sub his pvp accounts to shoot POCS tho .. |
Kim Lesley Hartman
Hartman Ornamental Confectionery and Pies The 20 Minuters
21
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 10:19:00 -
[1196] - Quote
[edit]I typed this really wrong reply but then it wasn't there when I hit post[/edit]
Fix your forums CCP. |
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
895
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 10:24:00 -
[1197] - Quote
Jack Dant wrote:Scrapyard Bob wrote:Which is something that I think CCP needs to address - currently, to run lab / manuf slots on a POS tower with prices in the 350M/mo range for a large tower, you're looking at a cost of 8000-9500 ISK/hr. Right now, if you have a 60-slot POS tower and are paying 500M ISK/mo, then you have to plan on spending 11,300 per hour on fuel per slot. Anything that makes over 1 mil/slot/day in profit will easily pay that back and then some, if you consider the 33% increase in production from the build time bonus.
My PI networks were unnoticeably uneffected by the increase in pipe flow. They were already efficiently set up.
Six months in the hole... it changes a man. |
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
493
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 10:53:00 -
[1198] - Quote
Ingvar Angst wrote:Jack Dant wrote:Quote:*Discussion of fuel costs of POS manufacture slots* Anything that makes over 1 mil/slot/day in profit will easily pay that back and then some, if you consider the 33% increase in production from the build time bonus. My PI networks were unnoticeably uneffected by the increase in pipe flow. They were already efficiently set up.
Your reading comprehension skills are only matched by the clarity of your writing. What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644 |
Ottman
LoneWolf Mining Veni Vidi Vici Alliance
4
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 11:20:00 -
[1199] - Quote
well just a thought about industrial pilots that do pi and cant use custom office because of whatsoever, is it possible to make a launch of 10 k m-¦ into orbit right away ? it would be rather more sensefull in my opinion that this alternative should be given if those custom offices are getting shot down more often, sorry to say that, only so called pvp pilots will be happy about player custom offices, those who do pi and take part in the needed eve delivery industry should given an alternative option than have to use those player custom offices, tbh i see more disadvantages and raising prices in this "feature" than everything else, and even the pvp pilots will think twice when everything gets even more expensive than now.
i know i know, the "give me your stuff when you leave eve" and "carebears" flaming will come around next corner after this posting of me, but i play eve for some years already and i know that kind of changes like this one will have significant impact, and that for everyone, we talk about pos production, pos fuel and partwise also about t2 production, and now tell me who will not be affected by higher prices in those sectors ? everyone will ofc and it can also mean 2-4 plexes more per year if you buy them from ccp, and that is aiming for your cash in real life, or more time spend with not fun things like earning isk in eve, and less pvp what most of us call fun.
so think twice before you say "yay more targets well done ccp" ...
MfG Ottman |
Kim Lesley Hartman
Hartman Ornamental Confectionery and Pies The 20 Minuters
21
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 11:24:00 -
[1200] - Quote
Basically what I need to hear from the EVE PI team is this;
Why would an independent or smaller non- capital ship corp want to invest in PI in lowsec after the proposed changes? Or infact want to use Customs Offices they don't control at all at tremendously increased risk to the present situation?
Let me put it simply as an industrialist my only concern is the bottom line. A black number telling me my profits. Currently this makes Lowsec PI a good option because despite having to invest 100 million in an expensive hauler or two be able to effectively move stuff with a minimal risk of loosing said stuff the increase in yield over hi-sec is worth the extra risk. I expect to eventually loose a hauler but so far not being an idiot and good preparation means I've only ever lost as single Itty 4.
Under the new situation;
* I need to invest in an expensive structure that I can not defend, and if somebody shoots it I loose weeks if (more likely) not months in profit right there and then. And somebody eventually will shoot it even if I set the tax to 0%. If you really believe people 'will be reasonable' I'm not sure you are playing the same EVE I play. They won't be, never have been tears > everything esle, you run a MMO filled with hardcore griefers that's just the way it is. * I can use a structure put up by somebody else, but by doing so I hand them valuable intel about the times I am active and access their structure, they can use this to destroy my 100 million ship (potentially it's cargo too) or hand this information to somebody else. MASSIVE increase in risk. Basically I just painted "PLEASE GANK ME" on my occator the moment I use somebody else's customs office. * I run the risk of a previously open to me customs office getting closed and loosing my investment in the structures on the planet. * There will be far less offices in space and thereby even without the time stamp issue it becomes easy for pirates to predict where they can catch juicy haulers.
What does this mean? My black number at the bottom line becomes a lot lower and potentially even turns into a red number (the latter option meaning i loose all my RL invested time). Alternatively I train two extra PI alts on my account and move to hisec to compensate for the lower planetary yields and loose RL time in clicking an hauling on those accounts, but not as much invested time as I'd loose having to replace an expensive POCO or Cloaky/Stabby T2 Hauler.
I ask you which of these 2 options do you think an industrialist is more likely to pick? The risk free one with a guaranteed black number at the bottom line. Or the one with massively increased risks that he/she has no guarantee will make more and will potentially loose money?
Not exactly rocket science is it?
Just to be clear I currently run my PI in deep lowsec (5 jumps in) and live there, I'm not risk averse, I am also however not crazy. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 [40] 50 60 .. 61 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |