Whats the difference between Concord standings and Security Standings?

Also, NPC 0.0 space needs some love!

Its a great sounding idea but I wanna ask a few more questions:


2) Will we have some ability to see an audit of a players sec status? I can see some people abusing this system by going -10, ratting back to zero, joining a nooby corp, puts on the 'innocent look' to get into the corp and then runs off, causes trouble and gets the nooby corp war deced and quickly does a road runner impression from the nooby corp and leaves them to face the music.

Rince & repeat for tears.

2) Will we have some ability to see an audit of a players sec status? I can see some people abusing this system by going -10, ratting back to zero, joining a nooby corp, puts on the 'innocent look' to get into the corp and then runs off, causes trouble and gets the nooby corp war deced and quickly does a road runner impression from the nooby corp and leaves them to face the music.

Rince & repeat for tears.

So... where's going to be the best place to sell these tags? Jita or another high-sec trade hub (which might be problematic for the people most likely to want to purchase them)? Or at the lowsec stations where you can trade them in?

As someone who enjoys the odd spot of lowsec ratting, I'm looking forward to this feature!

Hah! Who needs lowsec CSM representation when we have CCP Masterplan? Love the change.

One thing though, I thought security status could only go up to +5, but the devblog mentions -10 to +10. Typo, troll, or for reals?

So... where's going to be the best place to sell these tags? Jita or another high-sec trade hub (which might be problematic for the people most likely to want to purchase them)? Or at the lowsec stations where you can trade them in?

As someone who enjoys the odd spot of lowsec ratting, I'm looking forward to this feature!

Farewell to consequences in EVE. :(

At the very least, some of this should be in highsec or something so it's not just a casual stroll in the park. This won't attract players to lowsec on it's own. At least putting the agents in highsec would mean that criminals would have to fly in front of a lot of players' guns before they can "push button receive sec." As it's designed, it's way too easy and low risk.

Two consequences: 1) ISK cost for the tags (likely not too cheap) and the ISK "handling fee" at the concord station itself. So Cost per Gank has to be taken into consideration if you want to do the easy ISK route.

2) These new rats are lowsec belt only. Meaning you have to be in very obvious places in a PVP freefire zone to try and farm these guys, who are probably going to be infrequent at best. Its an Actual Risk, not something I'd expect a mission runner to understand.

Two consequences: 1) ISK cost for the tags (likely not too cheap) and the ISK "handling fee" at the concord station itself. So Cost per Gank has to be taken into consideration if you want to do the easy ISK route.

2) These new rats are lowsec belt only. Meaning you have to be in very obvious places in a PVP freefire zone to try and farm these guys, who are probably going to be infrequent at best. Its an Actual Risk, not something I'd expect a mission runner to understand.

Or: The consequence is I open my RL wallet, purchase a PLEX, sell in game for ISK and use the ISK to buy tags and pay CONCORD. In other words an individual can circumvent in game consequences via out of game wealth.

lowsec isn't that risky. Not something I'd expect a nullbear anom farmer to understand. Maybe more risky than the big blue donut, but still, not very risky.

You don't lose sec status for killing corpmates. So unless they were on a ganking binge and decided to switch things up with a corp infiltration, this doesn't apply.

...which sounds totally awesome. WHY DO YOU HATE FUN?

The bottom line is, killboards still tell the story, and are an even more effective audit method than simply looking at security status. If someone goes around awoxing constantly, as long as the victims are posting their losses, it'll be obvious to other recruiters. I strongly believe that as long as they criminal is willing to pay the cost to do this repeatedly, and recruiters are lazy enough not to investigate killboard histories, than corps should suffer the consequences. This is a free-form capitalist dystopian universe, paying off the cops just feels right and this feature is long overdue.

How is it possible that someone so awesome as CCP Masterplan has so few likes? You people...

Sometimes you just need to do something that's a little bit outside the law. Blow up a freighter, pod someone in low sec, or other nefarious activities .

How is it possible that someone so awesome as CCP Masterplan has so few likes? You people...

He obviously needs to both post more and do more low sec touching. Mmmm?

How is it possible that someone so awesome as CCP Masterplan has so few likes? You people...

Don't tempt me to start touching those places. I'm sure HR would have concerns.

Why would I give likes to people who appear to make raising sec status slower or more of a pita?

Um, did you even read the blog? How do you get slower out of that?

Um, did you even read the blog? How do you get slower out of that?

Removing chain ratting will slow down sec gain unless the buffs to sec gains on that rats is dramatic.

The buff is from the new tags you will get now and then.

The buff is from the new tags you will get now and then.

Tags drop every time you find a rat, it is not chance-based.

"Once you've found one of the new pirates and killed it, you should go and check the wreck. In addition to some random loot, each NPC will always drop one tag."

So to provide an alternate method of bringing sec status up you are introducing tags and then nerfing the ability to raise sec status the old way? I could get more than 3 tics in the pipeline every 15 min with the previous system so, in effect, actually ratting sec up will now be slower unless you increase the amount of sec gained with each kill fairly significantly. Was the idea that by making ratting up sec even more painful you will ensure that people will actually buy the tags or are all the revisions to sec gain going positive?

I didn't say anything about killing corp mates, but someone could go out and cause enough trouble elsewhere to pick up some unwanted attention.



I don't hate fun - I just don't want to see small new corps under threat from players infiltrating corps to cause enough trouble to get decs.

At the end of the day you wouldn't allow a repeat offender into your company or organisation without some careful consideration and if the game / system is hiding this 'rap sheet' then it makes it difficult for people to make an educated judgement of character.

Aye. But for those that want to rat up their sec they are looking to receive a slight Nerf in comparison to what they can do now with chair. Ratting.

Personally I haven't made it past shooting one rat before I decide -9 something isn't so bad in a while.

you won't have to jump around quite so much.

Tags drop every time you find a rat, it is not chance-based.

"Once you've found one of the new pirates and killed it, you should go and check the wreck. In addition to some random loot, each NPC will always drop one tag."

3 ticks every 15 minutes is roughly the same as 1 tick every 5 minutes. You'll be fine, and you won't have to jump around quite so much.

So... where's going to be the best place to sell these tags? Jita or another high-sec trade hub (which might be problematic for the people most likely to want to purchase them)? Or at the lowsec stations where you can trade them in?

As someone who enjoys the odd spot of lowsec ratting, I'm looking forward to this feature!

Now to see the spawn rate. I'm quite hopeful about it. I do hope the tags to get closer to zero are fairly common. It would be a good way for newer players to keep above -5 till they are more situated as well as helping those who so fear sec loss a bit more incentive to taste the sweet nectar of explosions.

Nerfing piracy by catering to lazy?

'cause enough trouble' can already be done, in that respect nothing changes. All this new feature does is give people an alternative way to grind the sec status up.

Removing chain ratting will slow down sec gain unless the buffs to sec gains on that rats is dramatic.

What is in question is for corps / fleets / players to identify the potential trouble makers due to a history of low sec status - otherwise they have the ability to play as 'wolves in sheeps clothing' with a nice and neutral appearing sec status..

3 ticks every 15 minutes is roughly the same as 1 tick every 5 minutes. You'll be fine, and you won't have to jump around quite so much.

We raised this exact same question when discussing this internally. It is my understanding that ratting in lowsec, collecting tags, and turning them in will be comparable to the sec gain that can be obtained by currently chain-ratting in 0.0 space, simply moved into lowsec. So its actually a buff for those that used to only chain-rat for sec in lowsec, and its a buff above 0.0 chain-ratting if you factor in extra payment for tags into the question. Also, the bounty from the rats offsets the cost of turning in the tags. Unless I'm grossly mistaken here, this is not a step backwards for sec raising as an activity in any way, this is something the CSM was adamant about while this was being hammered out.

Removing chain ratting will increase sec gain if you are consistently making less than 3 kills in 3 different systems every 15 minutes
Removing chain ratting will slow down sec gain if you are consistently making more than 3 kills in 3 different systems every 15 minutes

Based on the stats we have, the number of people in the former group is significantly larger than the number in the second group, and overall this won't be a net nerf to the amount of security status gains.

Edit: Another buff for those that gank and try and keep anot too low sec status: L4 missions. Right now they will give 1 or 2 boosts to sec status per mission, due to the 20 minute wait. But with the new 5 minute tick you will get 6 or more boosts per mission. The result is you could do one L4 mission, then one gank, and repeat. The mission returns sufficient sec status and ISK to cover your losses.

Don't tempt me to start touching those places. I'm sure HR would have concerns.

Edit: "All CONCORD->character standings will be wiped" has a possibly unintended consequence. Some people mine is solar systems where the only station to refine at is a CONCORD station. Having a high CONCORD standing reduces the refine cost. Now you are taking away the one and only way to reduce refine cost at these stations: Have a high sec status. Recommendation: Only wipe CONCORD standings if they are less than zero. Let those who put in the effort to get cheap refine keep the fruits of their effort.

Everything Hans said is legit. The CSM had some good input to this feature when we presented it to them a few months back.

Will this really affect level 4 missions? Will the missioning system use the same means to rise the sec status?

That is not in question.

What is in question is for corps / fleets / players to identify the potential trouble makers due to a history of low sec status - otherwise they have the ability to play as 'wolves in sheeps clothing' with a nice and neutral appearing sec status.

I'm sorry but I can't quite comprehend your train of thought here.

How would this new system hide 'history of low sec status' any more (or less) than the existing system?

Yet another question we were sure to raise internally while this was being discussed - and statistically, this movement was not creating the conflict and killmails that you would expect, (as it was often done in things like stealth bombers) so I am satisfied that this change is not a nerf to piracy at the end of the day. In fact, concentrating the activity in lowsec instead of spreading it between low and 0.0 space, combined with the chokepoints created by the tag turn-ins, actually serves as a buff to piracy in my opinion.

Removing chain ratting will slow down sec gain unless the buffs to sec gains on that rats is dramatic.

Yes they do. My mission running alts all are +5 from sec gain from killing rats in missions. Im still +5 from before I moved into W.

"I want to AWOX a high sec industrial corp, but I got a low sec status. Ratting is too much trouble. Ill just wait for the expansion, buy tags and presto! A clean history that will get me right into that corp."

"I want to AWOX a high sec industrial corp, but I got a low sec status. Ratting is too much trouble. Ill just wait for the expansion, buy tags and presto! A clean history that will get me right into that corp."

Like that :P

The idea is that at least with some audit / history of sec status change you could at least spot a pattern of 'repeat offenders' and treat them as such.

you know the bigger problem is a guy who can't enter highsec is gonna have a hell of a time awoxing anyone in highsec

You are right, that is the way it works now, hence my rather high sec status too. I'm just questioning whether it will be so also after the change.

Like that :P

The idea is that at least with some audit / history of sec status change you could at least spot a pattern of 'repeat offenders' and treat them as such.

Of course the former group is larger since it also includes mission runners, explorers, and the like who are not shooting crosses for sec gains specifically! So while the change does not result in a net decrease in the net number of security gains in the game, it may still constitute a net decrease for those who are actively engaged in raising sec.

Not sure if trolling......

I can see reasoning behind this - more incentive for going into low-sec, more possible conflict in low sec, (slight) ISK sink from turning in tags.
However, I am (slightly) sceptical about it turning into: want sec status? Ok, just pay a bit of ISK and *poof* you are no longer 'pirate' - at least now you have to work for it; removing consequence from low-sec actions further blurs the line between 'good pirates' and 'bad pirates' - if anything we need to widen that - EVE really needs more cause & consequence and risk & reward, not less of it.
Ofc, I guess result depends on costs of turning in tags and spawn rates of new rats, so reserving judgement
Note: I am not talking about high-sec gankers here, they are subject to totally different meta anyway

you know the bigger problem is a guy who can't enter highsec is gonna have a hell of a time awoxing anyone in highsec

Why add new tags, when the current tags are not used ?

for example dread guristas tag or officer tags are useless...

because of my stack of literally thousands of them is fairly small compared to the stacks some other people have

sec status would cost pennies

True. CCP would have to do an auto-buyback of the old tags. May just be easier to add new ones.

I'd much prefer a system where more crime is committed in highsec, and thus more opportunity for player-driven enforcement (now possible through crimewatch) than one where the criminals stay in criminal land, and the carebears stay in carebear land, and never the twain shall meet.

Next stop on the train to awesome - separating Factional Navy enforcement of security status and moving them to standings-based enforcement, and allowing a combination of players and CONCORD to work together as the strong arm of the law. I hope this is something that CSM8 will pick up and run with, its the last piece of the puzzle in setting up a robust, easy-to-understand justice system for all of New Eden.

Yes, pretty much this. Trying to balance anything with the enormous numbers of existing tags out there (and the unbalanced droprates across the various types) would have been impossible

If more crime is happening in hisec, what happens to lowsec? Wouldn't you want to add more ways to PvE in lowsec to encourage people to leave the safety of highsec, so more crime happens in lowsec?

Why do you want to draw people out of lowsec?

I appreciate the idea of having faction navies respond based on standings, but how do people gain low standings with faction navies? Is CCP planning to add faction standings losses to crimes committed in faction space? Or is this just another ganking buff meaning that faction police will only attack mission runners?

When I ran those numbers, I was only looking at people with a negative sec status, for exactly that reason

There will no longer be a way to have multiple ticks in parallel across different solar systems. The tick will now be an explicit 5-minute interval, starting with the first NPC kill that a character makes. We are also rebalancing the security status gains given by some NPCs as part of this change, so you might notice slightly different gains per tick.

I am confused.

I have -8.2 standing to the Concord Assembly NPC Faction

I have -0.3 standing to the Concord NPC corporation (which is also my current sec status)


Under the new system, my sec status would be... ???
And what would happen to my -8.2 standing to the Concord Assembly Faction? I got that from my missions for Blood Raiders, so it kind of has some sentimental value.

"I want to AWOX a high sec industrial corp, but I got a low sec status. Ratting is too much trouble. Ill just wait for the expansion, buy tags and presto! A clean history that will get me right into that corp."

So two questions based on this.

1) Will you be giving us a visual 5-minute timer? Please?
2) Are you rebalancing the gain upward (faster recovery) or downward (slower recovery)? Exact amounts are in development of course but general trend?

2) A small number of NPCs that were giving very high rewards are being lowered.

Your new sec would be -0.3
Your Concord Assembly NPC Faction standing is unrelated, and will not be changed

EDIT TO ADD:

CONCORD corp standing will be reset to 0.0

Just a few comments on the situation here:

Before fanfest, a few corp mates of mine and I had been speaking about how criminals lack any real consequence in eve for committing crimes in high sec. While the concept of lower security status is nice, their just isn't enough. We threw around the idea that once you breached a certain level of negative status that even the NPCs of either Concord or the Nation would actually actively pod criminals. Committing a series of crimes and being a known murderer should be neigh impossible to come back from in the eyes of justice.

However, before us is a way to make the a little easier to return to 0 security status. From a role-play perspective this seems backwards to me. Once you become a solid criminal their should be almost no way of coming back without working years and years to repair your reputation. In eve terms, perhaps several months of active work. Now, I accept that some bribery between the pc's and npc's may happen to get the system to think you are "ok" to people again, or great political forces but under the same concept, one would think a player could bribe Concord to do other things as well, like pay them to blow someone up for you. While this role-play aspect doesn't exist in game, it's just a point to look from when considering these tags.

My suggestions on making it harder to return to a neutral status:

* Character with a lower status than -7.0 will be podded in high sec by Concord or appropriate navy forces.

* Once you are at a negative security status you can only gain other negative status from killing npc's (such as negative for blowing up Sancha rats) but not gain any positive status from the actions in the eyes of the Empires and Concord.

* These tags would be the only means to raise status with the empires & concord.

* Increase the number of tags required by 10x while keeping the drop rate the same as intended now so that it takes many months (if not a year) of active work to finally get back to a point where you can re-enter high sec.

All of this is done to dissuade players from becoming criminals unless that is the intended life they want to have in eve. Players who become criminals in High Security space would really start to feel the actions upon them.


Let's not make it easier for griefers to return to high sec. Lets empower the police force so that the concept of High Security really means "high security".

Thanks for listening,

Solar Rift

CCP (Masterplan in particular) spent an entire year giving us a knockout system for Crime and Punishment, and yet it goes underutilized because criminals aren't committing frequent enough crime in high sec to begin with. Why? Because we can't operate there! What difference does it make if there's suspect flagging, criminal flagging, etc, if no one who is prone to committing those crimes ventures frequently into highsec space.

CONCORD standing (like any other standing) has always ranged from -10 to +10. The reason that very few people have it above +5 is because NPCs have a 'max sec status bonus' attribute that is the maximum standing value that they can raise up to. There are no rats any more that have this value above +5, hence there is no way via ratting to get above this value. This won't change in the new system - the rats will still have this limit at which they stop giving sec-status increases.

(Back in the first days of EVE, there used to be other ways to raise CONCORD standing above this level, but those are no longer possible. Hence there are still a few very old characters out there that have such high CONCORD standings - there is no way to achieve it any more, and if they lose it, they'll not be able to get it back)

So, no troll, no typo, definitely for reals. Maybe we'll use this extra headroom one day for something interesting...

Now to see the spawn rate. I'm quite hopeful about it. I do hope the tags to get closer to zero are fairly common

for example CONCORD agents would read/write your security status when you run missions for them. Committing a crime that lowers your security status could then cut off access to certain agents, or even certain areas of space

Or: The consequence is I open my RL wallet, purchase a PLEX, sell in game for ISK and use the ISK to buy tags and pay CONCORD. In other words an individual can circumvent in game consequences via out of game wealth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTalnzcO0xk

^this

the other work to simplify aggro mechanics and flagging were a huge step to making your mouse finger all the safety you need.

*snip*
...Next stop on the train to awesome - separating Factional Navy enforcement of security status and moving them to standings-based enforcement, and allowing a combination of players and CONCORD to work together as the strong arm of the law. I hope this is something that CSM8 will pick up and run with, its the last piece of the puzzle in setting up a robust, easy-to-understand justice system for all of New Eden.

Or: The consequence is I open my RL wallet, purchase a PLEX, sell in game for ISK and use the ISK to buy tags and pay CONCORD. In other words an individual can circumvent in game consequences via out of game wealth.

1) Unfortunately that is unlikely
2) A small number of NPCs that were giving very high rewards are being lowered. Overall everything else will average about the same if you're sampling across a reasonable number of spawns.

Griefer's Paradise coming soon to a computer screen near you.

when i suggested tags for security here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1112317#post1112317
i got one measly like
wheres my medal?
i also accept donations if all medals are given out already

CONCORD corp standing will be reset to 0.0

i think ther is a better way to do this.make ship clas like al non combatt ships are sivilian and incure the higest securety los of al ships if ganked ,,,For combatt ships the pennalty incrise if you gank a ship lower than the tier of the ship your jusing to gank,and a lower penalty for ganking higer tier ships than you jusing to gank....then combaind this whid gradual lowered penalty for sec stat 1.0-0.1, if balanced rigth the penalty for ganking sivilian ship will be so hige iven in som low-sec like say 0.4-0.3 that it migth not be an atraktive target if not carrying werry walubal cargo...this system migthe bring miners and manufactors to som of low-sec(and it dont reward the cowards ganker only those that are brave and challange a stronger oponent,so ganking a higer tier combat ship shud incure werry littel penalty iven in 0.5 space if i got it may way.....

There are endless plaints that 'we need to get those who enjoy high-sec into low sec so they will enjoy the game OUR way'. This scheme will not do that for the simple reason that all the proposed tag-drop systems are controlled by various low-sec criminal corporations. Though the tags will not prove to be an endless money machine like moon materials, only criminal corporations will profit from this. And to what end? So criminals, who elected to lose sec status, will have an easier time entering high sec.

The sec-tag drops would therefore be better in high sec systems. Let the low sec-status criminals figure out how to gain the tags whilst evading the police and Concord, and whilst under fire from their long-time victims, the much loathed 'carebear'. I imagine that criminals would just create alts to harvest the tags, but why make it easy for them?

By the way, 'Sometimes you just need to do something that's a little bit outside the law' is not true of everyone. Actions have consequences, and one should labour to repair one's standings, and not be allowed to simply buy their way out.

Sandbox is when players (also those who did crimes) are helping to maintain law (not against brain dead zombies but against other player criminals).

I would like to get the same option for empire standing. After all, why do piwates and highsec gankers get a "out of Jail with ISK" - card, while the PvE-Players with bad standings don't?

Excellent change. It's a great buff to lowsec belt pvp.

...By the way... can you please implement this mechanics also for faction standings? It would be great to be able to fix your faction standings also by using a similar way.

However, I as well as other upstanding law abiding citizens of Eve have spent a lot of time to get a high security status. If that is knocked back to 0.00 then you're basically hitting us with a nerf bat as well as turning all our time spent gaining that status into a huge waste of time.

To CCP,

This 'Tag for Security' is nothing more than a 'Get out of jail' card. Basically you're removing 'Consequences of Choices' and 'Risk verses Reward', etc. and replacing it with a P2W option.

Now for this bullsh*t about resetting players Security Status to 0.00. If you're talking about players with negative security status than fine. I don't have a problem with that since it's basically like a reprieve from the Governor.

However, I as well as other upstanding law abiding citizens of Eve have spent a lot of time to get a high security status. If that is knocked back to 0.00 then you're basically hitting us with a nerf bat as well as turning all our time spent gaining that status into a huge waste of time.

Over the past few years Eve Online has been slowly turning into Griefer Online where Criminals are amply rewarded and Law Abiding Citizens are severely penalized. Hopefully CCP will soon see the error of their ways but I'm afraid by then the proverbial "Camel's Back" will already be broken well beyond repair.

I'm sure there's a lot of people who are getting very disinterested with this game due to it's direction over the past few years. I know I'm just one of many players who use to spend hours on a daily basis logged into the game. Over the past few years game interest has steadily been lost and now only spend a few hours a week in-game. In fact some cases only spend a few hours a month in-game. This will eventually result in a 'Quit'..

Enough with the hype and endless PR crap about the CSM. Most players don't give a rats arse what the CSM members say or think. The CSM doesn't represent the majority of the player base and they definitely don't represent me.

Quite honestly to be blunt, I'm sick and tired of all this bullsh*t. This game is supposed to provide a fun pleasurable exhilarating time when logged in, not some fear ridden apprehensive uncomfortable feeling. Nor should the reading of Dev Blogs / Expansion Proposals / Patch Notes create feelings of anger, distrust and suspicions of backroom dealings that only benefit a select few.

I think I'll stop now before I break any 'Rules'.



DMC

Gankers/Pirates cost Industry and miners BILLIONS every single day. They are griefers and criminals and they SHOULD have to work their butts-off to earn the right to be in HS again after they destroy their sec status and cost other players billions ... that is their penance. It isn't like someone MADE them do the things they do, they made the choice and they should have to pay the price! So what if the poor, poor ganker leaves EVE because it is too hard to raise his sec status ... good riddance! He/she should have thought about that before they went on their killing-spree!

Gankers lose a specific number of sec status point for each Hulk, Retriever or other industrial ship they attack and kill. I do not know exactly how many they lose for each offense but let's say for argument sake that it is .2 - .4. INSTEAD of letting them use tags for raising sec status, make them BUY their sec status back ... "pay a fine" if you will. Each Hulk they destroy costs the miner upwards of 255 million. So, they should pay a fine equivalent to the amount of isk they cost the person they attacked. Hit them where it hurts ... their wallet! Why not? They hit OURS!

I think this "Tags for sec status" is a huge mistake and a very bad decision. Instead of giving gankers a "free-pass" to be even MORE destructive and disruptive than they already are, why not give exhumers another mid and low slot so miners can defend themselves better? Better yet, make it so miners can "hire" a Concord escort for a reasonable price when they mine who will protect them from gankers? CCP, you have made life easy enough as it is for gankers and pirates. Why not help out the mining and industrial community for a change? Things are out of balance as it is and this "tags for sec status" idea is only going to create more imbalance.

Gankers/Pirates cost Industry and miners BILLIONS every single day. They are griefers and criminals and they SHOULD have to work their butts-off to earn the right to be in HS again after they destroy their sec status and cost other players billions ... that is their penance. It isn't like someone MADE them do the things they do, they made the choice and they should have to pay the price! So what if the poor, poor ganker leaves EVE because it is too hard to raise his sec status ... good riddance! He/she should have thought about that before they went on their killing-spree!

Gankers lose a specific number of sec status point for each Hulk, Retriever or other industrial ship they attack and kill. I do not know exactly how many they lose for each offense but let's say for argument sake that it is .2 - .4. INSTEAD of letting them use tags for raising sec status, make them BUY their sec status back ... "pay a fine" if you will. Each Hulk they destroy costs the miner upwards of 255 million. So, they should pay a fine equivalent to the amount of isk they cost the person they attacked. Hit them where it hurts ... their wallet! Why not? They hit OURS!

I think this "Tags for sec status" is a huge mistake and a very bad decision. Instead of giving gankers a "free-pass" to be even MORE destructive and disruptive than they already are, why not give exhumers another mid and low slot so miners can defend themselves better? Better yet, make it so miners can "hire" a Concord escort for a reasonable price when they mine who will protect them from gankers? CCP, you have made life easy enough as it is for gankers and pirates. Why not help out the mining and industrial community for a change? Things are out of balance as it is and this "tags for sec status" idea is only going to create more imbalance.

And yet another fine example of CCP stearing the game into more ship kills, preferably in high sec to maximize damage done ISK wise.

More ISK destroyed, more time invested in the game destroyed, more time needed to recover the losses, more rl $ for CCP.

Bah.

I agree with this one. If you choose to play the game as a "criminal" then you should be permanently labeled as one and no tag or anything else should allow you to chance that...

There is so much anger here.

However, you do realize that high sec gankers are often rather comfortable at -10 and function just fine that way? They will probably be one of the smaller groups interested in tags 4 sec.

This is not just about the gankers and pirates. People who dabble in low sec roaming and PvP can not easily raise hteir sec status. Eve Uni had (has?) a rule where you have to stay 0.0 or higher. Fighting in low sec doesn't only mean fighting flashy red outlaws but plenty of people keep their sec status up to receive gategun assistance.

Focusing on gankers eliminates massive swaths of the game that can benefit from being able to tip their security status back up quickly for engaging in PvP. The people you worry about the most are the people who care about it the least.

People are very, very attached to their security status. Some are quite traumatized by dropping into the negatives. People who will be able to do their weekend roaming and go back to their incursions and mission running later.

That... that all sounds pretty good to me.

I'll definitely be encouraging CCP to make more changes to drive the effects you list. In fact we have already started.

You do realize the number of eve players that DIDN'T vote for you, now do you?

Eve should be fun for all sorts of players, not only the quick fix, fast game gankers that invest **** all in the game, and will leave the minute another game gives them a quicker fix and faster game.

In fact your CSM tag means nothing.

You do realize the number of eve players that DIDN'T vote for you, now do you?

Yep. They have the reps they voted for to represent their perspective. Anyone who did put me on one of their voting choices should know exactly what I stand for, and it would be a gross betrayal of their trust to let them down.

Quite honestly to be blunt, I'm sick and tired of all this bullsh*t. This game is supposed to provide a fun pleasurable exhilarating time when logged in, not some fear ridden apprehensive uncomfortable feeling.

EVE is a dark and harsh world, you're supposed to feel a bit worried and slightly angry when you log in, you're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, that's what hello kitty online is for.

What I don't think people understand is this isn't really going to affect -10 pirates in highsec anyway as they can gank as a -10. This is going to be a good change for the Faction Warfare guys with negative sec status out there.

Chill out people and actually look at it from both sides...

To CCP,

This 'Tag for Security' is nothing more than a 'Get out of jail' card. Basically you're removing 'Consequences of Choices' and 'Risk verses Reward', etc. and replacing it with a P2W option.

Over the past few years Eve Online has been slowly turning into Griefer Online where Criminals are amply rewarded and Law Abiding Citizens are severely penalized. Hopefully CCP will soon see the error of their ways but I'm afraid by then the proverbial "Camel's Back" will already be broken well beyond repair.

I'm sure there's a lot of people who are getting very disinterested with this game due to it's direction over the past few years. I know I'm just one of many players who use to spend hours on a daily basis logged into the game. Over the past few years game interest has steadily been lost and now only spend a few hours a week in-game. In fact some cases only spend a few hours a month in-game. This will eventually result in a 'Quit'..

Enough with the hype and endless PR crap about the CSM. Most players don't give a rats arse what the CSM members say or think. The CSM doesn't represent the majority of the player base and they definitely don't represent me.

Quite honestly to be blunt, I'm sick and tired of all this bullsh*t. This game is supposed to provide a fun pleasurable exhilarating time when logged in, not some fear ridden apprehensive uncomfortable feeling. Nor should the reading of Dev Blogs / Expansion Proposals / Patch Notes create feelings of anger, distrust and suspicions of backroom dealings that only benefit a select few.

ok I get that you want people into lowsec but isks for security status... this is by far one of the stupidest ideas you had so far.

Well, I voted for you which means I obviously missed the campaign speech of you endorsing consequence free high security suicide ganks....

To CCP,

This 'Tag for Security' is nothing more than a 'Get out of jail' card. Basically you're removing 'Consequences of Choices' and 'Risk verses Reward', etc. and replacing it with a P2W option.

Now for this bullsh*t about resetting players Security Status to 0.00. If you're talking about players with negative security status than fine. I don't have a problem with that since it's basically like a reprieve from the Governor.

However, I as well as other upstanding law abiding citizens of Eve have spent a lot of time to get a high security status. If that is knocked back to 0.00 then you're basically hitting us with a nerf bat as well as turning all our time spent gaining that status into a huge waste of time.

Over the past few years Eve Online has been slowly turning into Griefer Online where Criminals are amply rewarded and Law Abiding Citizens are severely penalized. Hopefully CCP will soon see the error of their ways but I'm afraid by then the proverbial "Camel's Back" will already be broken well beyond repair.

I'm sure there's a lot of people who are getting very disinterested with this game due to it's direction over the past few years. I know I'm just one of many players who use to spend hours on a daily basis logged into the game. Over the past few years game interest has steadily been lost and now only spend a few hours a week in-game. In fact some cases only spend a few hours a month in-game. This will eventually result in a 'Quit'..

Enough with the hype and endless PR crap about the CSM. Most players don't give a rats arse what the CSM members say or think. The CSM doesn't represent the majority of the player base and they definitely don't represent me.

Quite honestly to be blunt, I'm sick and tired of all this bullsh*t. This game is supposed to provide a fun pleasurable exhilarating time when logged in, not some fear ridden apprehensive uncomfortable feeling. Nor should the reading of Dev Blogs / Expansion Proposals / Patch Notes create feelings of anger, distrust and suspicions of backroom dealings that only benefit a select few.

I think I'll stop now before I break any 'Rules'.



DMC

What I don't think people understand is this isn't really going to affect -10 pirates in highsec anyway as they can gank as a -10. This is going to be a good change for the Faction Warfare guys with negative sec status out there.

Chill out people and actually look at it from both sides...

This change still not fixing the issue that Concord Assembly faction standing cannot be raised.

Do you also cry that gankers don't have to make their own ships since they can buy them in the market?

So stepping past the argument for a bit, a few numbers for people who are actually interested in the changes for their own sake.

Turn-in processing fees are 3-6m per tag (or I'm assuming it's per tag rather than per batch, I didn't get the opportunity to test that). That's 3m for the tags closer to -10, up to 6m for the tags closer to 0, though. Which makes sense - CONCORD is no doubt fully aware of the phenomena of suicide ganking and that it will place extra demand for tags in the -5 to 0 range, and so naturally as demand is high they can charge more.

As far as the spawn rate goes... that's hard to say. I got five NPCs (all Negotiators) in one past through an 11 belt system, one stop in each belt. I then got one NPC in the next 44 belts I visited over the next four systems. Whether that's an actual reflection of reality rather than being affected by test server quirks (all but the first system I visited were offline before I jumped in, perhaps that affects spawns in some way) is beyond me, so suffice it to say, the data is inconclusive.

Getting five identical spawns in a row in the same system is odd, though. Not impossible, but certainly starting to get "up there" on the scale of "improbable"...

Sounds like a Goonspiracy to me. First Tech, now sec status tags! There's no end to your sinister cartel ways!

I was thinking about dominating the market through inflated buy orders and subsidizing Miniluv's activities by gouging everyone else on the price.

Turn-in processing fees are 3-6m per tag (or I'm assuming it's per tag rather than per batch, I didn't get the opportunity to test that). That's 3m for the tags closer to -10, up to 6m for the tags closer to 0, though.

You do realize the number of eve players that DIDN'T vote for you, now do you?

So it take 20 tags to go from -10.0 to 0.0 or 60-100 Million ISK, plus the price of the tags if you wan to buy them?

Sounds a bit much for your average ganker. PvPers and FW pilots... maybe not.

...On the other hand your "average ganker" isn't really going to go much lower than -5, but because the cost is front loaded, it's 6*5+4*6, or 54m.

It'll inject a bit more profit motive into the activities of the "average ganker", I'd say. You can get 10-20 ganks in between 0 and -5, though, so the additional cost per gank is is actually relatively low.

Pending, of course, seeing what the market price of the tags is.

Why make it easier for the sociopaths to get back into Hi Sec? They are where they are for a reason. I see no point in letting them out.

My response to that is the same as always. "You and I don't play the same game. We just use the same servers."

Have a nice day.

My response to that is the same as always. "You and I don't play the same game. We just use the same servers."

Have a nice day.

Hate to break it to you, but you play the same game in different ways. There's a big difference between that and different games on the same servers, and if it's ever the latter we here at CCP have a problem that we need to fix.

Why make it easier for the sociopaths to get back into Hi Sec? They are where they are for a reason. I see no point in letting them out.

Hate to break it to you, but you play the same game in different ways. There's a big difference between that and different games on the same servers, and if it's ever the latter we here at CCP have a problem that we need to fix.