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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
5611
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Posted - 2013.08.07 23:25:00 -
[241] - Quote
There is only 1 certificate worth having, and that is Hull Tanking - Elite, and even then its mostly just because supposedly only real men do it.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Miyamoto Uroki
Commando Aeternitas
Blinky Red Brotherhood
0
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Posted - 2013.08.08 12:32:00 -
[242] - Quote
As has been said before, certificates won't be used as long as you cannot define your own corporate certificates (much like Corporate Fittings)
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Maximillion Cocksnap
State War Academy
Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.08.08 14:31:00 -
[243] - Quote
Please no to certificate transparency. The fact you can field the correctly fitted ship in a fleet should be enough. Think football for example:
When you turn up, people can see you've got the right kit (boots, socks, right colour shirt etc)by the fact you have it on. They cant check if you have good skills at goalkeeping, shooting or tackling. They just know by implication that you are willing to try - when you tell them you fancy being in goal and pull out your goalkeeping gloves, they have to decide if they are willing to let you.
Thats the way EVE should be - you join a fleet in the right ship, that proves you are in a position to try and contribute. The FC's (and other pilots) job is to determine if you're worth flying with, and if you can fly the ship you've turned up in. Plus, just because youve sat there and trained a skill to 5 doesnt mean you can use it properly - its too easy for other pilots to make that assumption if they can see your skills.
Just because one pilot has something at V and another only has III doesnt make the first pilot a better one. It just meant they clicked the skill a while before the second guy. |
Vartan Sarkisian
Inner Visions
Of Sound Mind
119
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Posted - 2013.08.08 16:17:00 -
[244] - Quote
And there was me thinking before I read it that this post maybe about being able to train a certificate in the skills (as well as still being able to train individual skills).
What purpose does showing your certificates provide, does anyone really care if they are public or not, surely there are other more urgent areas of the game that need looking into rather than should certificates be public or not.
If not many people use them publicly then bin the feature, will it improve anything else? performance perhaps?
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die. |
Altaen
Calamitous-Intent
75
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Posted - 2013.08.08 16:41:00 -
[245] - Quote
I think player-created certificates would be the way to go.
A corp or alliance could create doctrine-based certificates at different levels, which would create an in-game skill plan for newbros to easily follow, and an easy to measure goalpost for some corp or alliance specific reward system.
I could easily imagine designing a Basic, Standard, and Elite competency level for Armor Cruisers for a corp that was open to recruiting new players.
These competency levels would be set by the corp's military leadership, and reaching them would qualify the player for reimbursement, and perhaps the corp would provide them with the related hull completely fitted as a reward for hitting the achievement.
Just as an example: At Basic the corp would hand them a fitted Maller, at Standard a fitted Zealot, and at Elite a fitted Legion.
Design a whole separate certificate planner for logistics, Basic Augoror, Standard Guardian, Elite Archon
And so on for any corp/alliance doctrine, including mining, industry, PVE, PVP, whatever. |
Sunai Karvinoinas
3
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Posted - 2013.08.08 17:18:00 -
[246] - Quote
Max Kolonko wrote:If at any point in time there was MAJOR revision of certificate structure then yes, proposed changes (especially drag&drop of certificates) would be used to:
- verify if character have required level of skills
- bragging rights
- set skill plans based on certificates instead of separate skills I'm quite new in Game with almost 1 year. I have to agree some of the answers given before.
Some of the certificates do not really represent a special ability anymore, because they are too broad. in example: "common ore refiner advanced" needs "rare ore refiner basic". I did'nt understand yet.
I'm really sure certificates need a bigger revamp at all. Maybe they can guide a newbie into a professional skillpath. They don't do that right now.
If I decide to publish certificates, I want to have the ability to decide, who will see them. Otherwise I won't publish them. So I should be allowed to go following pathes:
- Publish corp internal (only means players corps, no NPC corps)
- Publish alliance internal
- make them public, if I'd like
- keep them private, if I like
I'm the only one, who can decide to publish or not. No corp has rights to force or view it, if they are not been published for by myself.
As far as certificates become useful, it would be great to have an export function of published certificates, if this is not possible to handle within clients char profile window.
- this is an unskilled forum char |
Velarra
263
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Posted - 2013.08.10 03:52:00 -
[247] - Quote
Remove entirely or leave them as is.
While your return to them is surprising, please invest dev time elsewhere. |
Tycho Volari
Eye of the Void
0
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Posted - 2013.08.10 15:20:00 -
[248] - Quote
I think removing the sharing functionality would be a half-assed attempt at fixing something that already seems half-assed.
Have you considered adding the option to make certs available to corpmates or blues only?
What about bringing it in line with other things? You can link your kills, you can link your fitting - why not have a drag n drop feature with certificates. So players can show a cert with the players name signed onto it that proves its legit. If for instance a corp/fleet wanted to check someone had a certain cert before granting a role, the applicant could just link it - and wouldn't have to screw around with making it public or using API.
Making them automatically viewable to everyone would just be silly. A huge part of this game is about bluffing and baiting. That ambiguity as to who/what you're up against is part of what encourages otherwise pointless engagements. |
TheSmokingHertog
TALIBAN EXPRESS
137
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Posted - 2013.08.11 03:28:00 -
[249] - Quote
The Corp / Aliance certificates are a good idea! Make them exportable, so corps can make templates that can be shared.
1) I like bragging, so, please, don't remove the public option
2) This is a good idea
3) Good idea too
4) This is not comfortable with me at all. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
Cosmic Consortium
3953
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Posted - 2013.08.13 01:37:00 -
[250] - Quote
Hisec miners have no need for refining Mercoxit. Thus hisec miners can never get "elite" certificates.
Nobody except logistics pilots has need for Multitasking.
Certificates are broken. Will CCP be prepared to collaborate with players to either provide corp-defined certificates (ie: SLOWCAT Standard/Advanced/Elite comprising specific ship, weapon and module skills to specific levels) or refine existing certificates so that it is safe to advise new players to aim for particular certificates without wasting months of their time?
IMHO a finer grained certificate system with corporate/alliance certificates based on collections of CCP certificates might work.
The ability to show certificates based on standings and corp/alliance affiliation would be lovely.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
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oohthey ioh
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2013.08.13 08:46:00 -
[251] - Quote
how about making them a requirement to join some corps? |
Eric de'Locke
Wildstorm Corporation
0
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Posted - 2013.08.13 09:56:00 -
[252] - Quote
As a new player my understanding of what skills work well within a given certificate is limited, but I have found them to be a great foundation to build upon.
I'm used them to plan out minimum requirements for my fledgling corporation's key positions, which I think is a good why for Directors to see what capabilities a given character has. So maybe making them corporation centered as opposed to publicially available. |
Jumpshot244
EntroPrelatial Industria
Here Be Dragons
24
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Posted - 2013.08.13 15:12:00 -
[253] - Quote
I can't even remember the last time I even looked at the certificates menu. Other than when it blinks at me and I have to claim the certificates to make it stop.
Just get rid of certificates and go do something useful. If people want to plan skills/fits they use EveMON and pyfa anyways. |
WhoBeI
Black Thorne Corporation
The Cursed Few
0
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Posted - 2013.08.13 17:15:00 -
[254] - Quote
Make it an alliance/corp tool or remove it.
I'd like it if you roll it into the fitting screen. Do something similar to what EFT does and tell me what skill(s) I'm missing to fly a certain fitting.
Extend on that and allow alliance/corp/me to modify the skill levels for a certain fit and even add from the skill tree.
Then when I open corp fitting and click/hover on one I get a list of skills and levels I'm missing compared to the corp recommendation.
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Jordanna Bauer
My Other Capital Ship is Your Mom
43
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Posted - 2013.08.13 23:34:00 -
[255] - Quote
The entire certification system is a silly concept and I still wouldn't care for it with the proposed changes. |
Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill
Exiled Ones
1
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Posted - 2013.08.14 10:10:00 -
[256] - Quote
Sorry for being harsh and exaggerating but this is needed to prove my point. Someone who needs certificates and doesnGÇÖt clearly see that some of the skills required are silly, unnecessary or outright useless should learn more about game mechanicsGǪ and yes and IGÇÖm talking about noobs also. If someone relays on certificates and does not try to understand what particular skills gives him and his ship, than he should consider playing a simpler game. Met one guy, an older player (1,5 year char), who was certain that he needs core competency elite before maxing out anything elseGǪ what was his use to the fleet? NoneGǪ while younger players were rocking with their maxed out t3 ships.
If u donGÇÖt understand that when flaying an amarr ship you donGÇÖt need any skills to shield tank or skills to falloff range of your turrets than you deserve to shoot on sight by more competent players. Recently found a guy who can fly abso, but canGÇÖt fit T2 lasersGǪ
And before u say GÇ£u stupid, shield skills will also improve an armour tank, bla, bla, blaGÇ¥ I will replay: every skill ads a little to the ship. Every one. That doesnGÇÖt mean you need to every frigging skill before you start faying anything.
You need to prioritize GÇô some skills will greatly improve your ship, others only slightly. Be sure you chose the right one first. That doesnGÇÖt require certificates and skill plans. It requires some effort to dig in on role of particular ship and skills it needs the most to be effective.
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Janna Sway
20
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Posted - 2013.08.15 12:23:00 -
[257] - Quote
My certificates are private and I do not wish to reveal to anybody in what areas I am specializing in.
Only in very rare occasions, when I would want to give someone of choice an rough overview over my current level of capabilities (authorities, like to my CEO, etc.), i would put my certificates temporarily on public, for writing all down would be inefficient.
I would rather welcome the option to create my own certificates (a "skill tree") and save them, for the purpose of my own skillplanning purposes.
This would help me tremendously and this does not need to be put on public, too. |
DetKhord Saisio
Seniors Clan
Get Off My Lawn
25
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Posted - 2013.08.17 13:08:00 -
[258] - Quote
CCP, although it may be a valiant and noble attempt to "save the sinking ship" that is certificate visibility... if any change you make increases lag in large fleet battles, I suggest you rethink.
In my opinion, there is a limit to data visibility needs during combat, so access via non-live server makes more sense. Alternatively, I would suggest adding a filter to any system with more than 1000... or 2000 players.... whatever a good cutoff is that makes sense for the capabilities of your servers to handle...
...This "combat" filter would only be applied as necessary, when the live game server becomes clogged with too much data to operate at optimum. i.e. tidi makes huge alliance vs alliance battles unbearable, so apply filters to reduce data collected from each player, such as certificates, or corp history... for the duration of the battle. |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children
TOHA Conglomerate
162
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Posted - 2013.08.19 15:23:00 -
[259] - Quote
CCP Yterbium, (was that spelled correctly?)
I have given your question some thought, and this is what I'd like to see:
I'd like certificates to be visible to corporate superiors (perhaps people with the ship fitting role?).
I'd like certificates to be customisable per corp or alliance.
In this way, I would no longer have to give training advice to new pilots. When they say to me, "what skills do I need to fly a Talos?", I would say,
"Well, before you get into it, you need to Embers Children Certificate of Competence with the Talos, but I would advise you to then train for the Embers Children Certificate of Talos Excellence". The answering of repetitive questions would end there.
I could also say, "today we're going on a roam. players A, B, C are in scimitars because I can see you are skilled for them, and D, E, and F shall be in vagabonds. G and H shall be in drakes because that's all those losers can fly, and I and J shall be forward scouts in stealth bombers. We leave in 5 minutes. Get your sh*t together, shut the f*ck up, don't forget your ammo, let's go kill some c*cks*cker!"
And never again would I have to sigh deeply when I realised that one of my talos pilots has T1 shield hardeners, T1 guns and had fitted IRON ammo to try to compete on range with the guys who can use NULL.... (sigh!)
This is what certificates should be for. Please make this happen.
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elitatwo
Congregatio
109
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Posted - 2013.08.21 19:34:00 -
[260] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:CCP Yterbium, (was that spelled correctly?)
-snip-
Ytterbium is a chemical element with symbol Yb and atomic number 70. /quote Wikipedia
It is rare on Earth.
The atomic number would suggest that CCP Ytterbium is CCP employee number 70.
FB_Addon_TelNo{height:15px !important;white-space: nowrap !important;background-color: #0ff0ff;} |
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Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children
TOHA Conglomerate
180
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Posted - 2013.08.21 19:41:00 -
[261] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Mournful Conciousness wrote:CCP Yterbium, (was that spelled correctly?)
-snip-
Ytterbium is a chemical element with symbol Yb and atomic number 70. /quote Wikipedia It is rare on Earth. The atomic number would suggest that CCP Ytterbium is CCP employee number 70.
If he gives me the custom corp certificates, I'll rename him to CCP Awsomenium.
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Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
417
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Posted - 2013.08.21 20:17:00 -
[262] - Quote
Custom corp certs are going to lead to many badly skilled pilots whose training will revolve around what the cert planner decided was too good/bad for the training time. |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children
TOHA Conglomerate
180
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Posted - 2013.08.21 21:26:00 -
[263] - Quote
There'll be no shortcuts in my training plans, I can assure you.
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Goldiiee
Tax and War Haven
517
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Posted - 2013.08.23 21:35:00 -
[264] - Quote
Quote:''Remove the ability to set Certificates as public''
I understand this, but setting it to default 'Public' should allow Veterans to see how far the Noob has come in order to be more helpful. Of course that assuming the Noob has any training plan thought out in the first place
Quote:GÇó Offer the ability to drag and drop individual Certificates, or a whole Certificate profile from a character into any kind of text input field (conversation channels or EVE mails for instance GÇô this already is possible for individual Certificates from the planner)
GÇó Offer means to compare Certificates with a particular individual that give you permission with your own
GÇó For bragging rights, display unlocked Certificates publicly on all character show info, but donGÇÖt mention to which fields they apply GÇô for instance, running a show info on character A would list this pilot has 53 Certificates to Elite, 24 to Standard, but do not allow me to know their names or related skills.
I like the last three, additionally since this is both a way to prove competency and to grain trust it would be nice to have a current character implants drag and drop link as well.
Afterthought; Of course this is EVE and I am sure the instant an Implant set link is shared it will make those with super shiny implant sets (Or at the least the ones that linked their set) a target regardless of what they are flying.
Things that keep me up at night;-á
Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs?
Moore's Law should state,-áOnce you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another. |
Dristan Evrard
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2013.08.27 03:55:00 -
[265] - Quote
Just a small suggestion. If certificates are to be tweaked to better broadcast to corpmates and fleetmates your skill training, then the Spaceship Command set of skills should be included. Of all the skills, the ones that provide ship bonuses are some of the biggest and most important.
For example, certificates should provide a way to see who can fly a Dominix with Gallente BS 5. |
Ravasta Helugo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2013.08.30 01:02:00 -
[266] - Quote
Suggestion:
Add cert based restrictions to corporate applications.
Allow the corp to reject automatically applicants in station that do not have x, y or z cert. |
DetKhord Saisio
Seniors Clan
Get Off My Lawn
26
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Posted - 2013.08.31 00:26:00 -
[267] - Quote
And when CCP fixes certificate visibility for alliance/corp/blue-standings players, I suggest a new fleet setting to toggle in the fleet window for auto-join fleet placement into command slots for those with correct certificates in squad/wing/fleet commander positions. If you always have to manually move out of squad 4 to fill squad cmdr slot, you know what I am talking about. |
Psychoactive Stimulant
TinklePee
27
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Posted - 2013.09.03 22:44:00 -
[268] - Quote
I vote remove visibility, but certificates as a whole are amazing and wonderful. |
DetKhord Saisio
Seniors Clan
Get Off My Lawn
28
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Posted - 2013.09.04 07:17:00 -
[269] - Quote
I suggest you think about the certificate visibility in terms of a poker game. You do not want to show your hand until you have to.
With this game, showing your hand to anyone too early could cause you to become easier to kill. PvP is not a poker game, but I think everyone can figure out the translation.
I suppose a method for "sneaky" players to discover non-public certificates is using a Passive Targeter I and (new module) Certificate Scanner I. Make the sneaks have to work for the information; maybe add some sort of mini-game to it, like you have to bypass security protocols, etc. Just throwing ideas in to see if anything can get a response or interest.
Then again, there would likely be an uproar against allowing full access to another player's certificates with a single scan of the Certificate Scanner I; would releasing only 20 percent of target's certificates be better? But CCP seems to jump at anything shady, so maybe this idea will fly.
Here are two more in that vein... Implant Scanner I, which tells you what the other player's implants are. Boost Scanner I, which tells you what the other player's boosts/buffs are. It seems anything slanted towards "secret", "cloak", "hacking", ghost, special ops, etc easily gets attention and can be quite popular.
I can only imagine when/if walking in stations ever materializes and the "door" finally opens, knowing what your enemy's capabilities (certificate scanner), drug habits (boost scanner), and enhancements (implant scanner) may give you the edge you need to take him out before he even reaches his ship. I am going to go ahead and create the term now: Clone Ganking. |
culo duro
The Bootcamp
EveryoneVersusEveryone.com.
268
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Posted - 2013.09.12 08:29:00 -
[270] - Quote
Make Armor, Shield, and Hull a different entity in the certs. |
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