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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |

Unkind Omen
Russian Thunder Squad Darkness of Despair
13
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Posted - 2013.05.05 11:36:00 -
[91] - Quote
Sizeof Void wrote: So, if you are seriously thinking about making such information public by default, you might as well publicly broadcast every ship's current fit, as well.
You have misread the following part. It states opposite.
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Initial research has shown a low usage of characters set Certificates as public, we thus are considering the following options:
- Remove the ability to set Certificates as public
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John 1135
14
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Posted - 2013.05.05 12:42:00 -
[92] - Quote
Admiral Rufus wrote:I would rather see certificates take on a role more similar to achievements in other games and have things linked to PvP (and pve) prowess. Things like killed a battleship in a frigate, won a fight in <5% structure. Successfully tanked x damage. Stuff like that, I have no idea if this is possible to track in eve but achievement unlocks can really add something to other games and adjust your play style at times and it could also open the PvP aspect of eve to more pve orientated players when they have achievement unlocks to aim for as I believe a lot or players which actively avoid PvP do so because they see no structure in it and no clear progression, just a lot of blown up risk, it might also highlight what is achievable through existing game mechanics as I would wager a lot of inexperienced pilots would not think it possible to destroy a larger or more expensive ship than their own in a 1v1 but it obviously is. I don't like too much the idea of introducing achievements to Eve. I guess I want my emergent content to be emergent rather than x killed y with small laserz because there's an achievement for that. |

Perseus Parker
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.05.05 15:29:00 -
[93] - Quote
Certificates shouldn't be just simply a list of standardised skills. There should be the ability to make certificates to give to a corp for them to follow for certain roles, as to what a corp expects them. Similarly, they should be able to be posted in a fleet MOTD as a baseline minimum doctrine for flying the ships required to a basic level, such as having hull upgrades V for an armour fleet, and tackle skills etc |

Super spikinator
Hegemonous Conscripts Hegemonous Pandorum
159
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Posted - 2013.05.05 20:14:00 -
[94] - Quote
Remove the ability for certificates to be public. Allow people to opt in to whether or not you share to corp (the recruiter and higher ups have your API anyway) so that you can get help from others. Allow corporations and alliances to make certificates. Allow certificates to be dragged and dropped, much like how fittings can be.
Also (thinking cap), though it may not be useful for some certs but how about giving certs a "fill to training queue" option. Make the system "dumb" though, so it attempts to fill all level I skills, all level II skills, but "smart" so that it wont "break" when you don't have the skill injected. Make all of this subject to the normal training queue rules, so if you were training level V skills it would only add one to queue. |

Nometh Xergent
GLU CANU Open Space Consultancy
195
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Posted - 2013.05.05 21:37:00 -
[95] - Quote
Why not many choose to inform other people with certificates is that the other player can see what you are good/bad in. For example: I dont want to show of something i suck in. Theres another thing showing your certificates for ELITE tanking skills than it is showing a standard certificate for T2 tank since it is very common.
The certificates are good for myself so i have strategy for my skill training and sometimes prove what i have to others, but i always think i make a better target for others showing of my **** skills. With great responsibility comes great DPS.-á |

Celestial One
Militant Miners
17
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Posted - 2013.05.05 22:23:00 -
[96] - Quote
As a way to make certificates more useful to new players maybe list all certificates that have any effect on a ship rather than just the recommended. Also someone should look at what certificates are recommended for each ship. For example the Viator lists only Core Competency and and Armor Tanking... Cloak Operator seems like a no brainer to be listed on that hull. I am sure that this is not the only ship missing obvious recomendations. |

Iagus Damaclese
Zero-G Dogs
26
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Posted - 2013.05.06 03:51:00 -
[97] - Quote
I think one of the biggest issues with the difference between certificates and what needs to be viewed by other players, i.e. corp CEOs, is that too often corp CEOs want know what guns and what ships a player can, get the certificates lined up with vessel and weaponry proficiency and I think it would help a lot. |

Sinner aint'no'Saint
Hard Knocks Inc.
0
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Posted - 2013.05.06 04:00:00 -
[98] - Quote
Thanks CCP for reaching out for comments. Here are my thoughts on certificates:
I really don't care for certificates at all. All I ever see is this annoying popup on eve mon telling me that I have some that I need to claim and when I get annoyed enough I actually go and claim them.
I don't see that they serve any useful purpose, they are not inline with anything practical or useful from a piloting perspective.
If you want certificates to be useful, give a bonus for completing them. ie, 1% bonus to shield hitpoints for the shield cert or @% drone damage for the drone cert ( i don't know their real names, I looked at them once a few years ago and saw how they didn't affect a single part of my game play). |

Sabriz Adoudel
AWOXalypse
310
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Posted - 2013.05.06 04:57:00 -
[99] - Quote
I liked certificates when I was new as a form of general training advice.
However, I think some of the skill prerequisites for them should change, and they should be private only. (The API system now lets you disclose skills when required without revealing other sensitive info like wallet history or alt names).
A fair number of certs have downright odd prerequisite combinations. Level 5 in a 5x skill but only level 3 in an also relevant x2 skill, or similar. Also certs should have much better advice with them.
Also there should be separate "Active Armor Tanking" and "Armor Buffer Tanking" certificates, with advice like "Active armor tanking is prefered for engagements that you expect to last some time - for shorter battles, including most fights against other capsuleers, consider Armor Buffer Tanking instead".
The recommended certs by ship should be massively overhauled too. AWOXalypse is coming! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2898431
Buy shares: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=226618
An enemy is a friend you stab in the front. |

Alx Warlord
SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Last Resort.
454
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Posted - 2013.05.06 05:54:00 -
[100] - Quote
Hey, Don't make new certificates! Add "Mass Drivers" and "Streamers" to the weapons!!!
Revamp POS! it is needed!!!
And .. other .. stuff! ... Please read these! > New POS system > New SOV system |
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Galmas
United System's Commonwealth R.E.P.O.
91
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Posted - 2013.05.06 09:06:00 -
[101] - Quote
Regarding the second topic about what information i would be worried about showing public regarding my skills: any!!!
Regarding the whole certificates thing: Is it possible to get rid of any notification about any available certificate via notification config? (without removing any other notifications)
The less notification noise the better. Which is a rule the UI team doesnt seem to like, see the super annoying "agression noises".
Regards Gal |

John 1135
14
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Posted - 2013.05.06 09:09:00 -
[102] - Quote
Point. But also certs serve a purpose of helping people into the game and (if corp-customised) into corp roles. So that's a purpose that merits work I think. Assuming more players more often participating at a deeper level with the game = good. |

Selmak Kado
Tok'Ra.
1
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Posted - 2013.05.06 10:47:00 -
[103] - Quote
When certificates came, we all thougth that this would be a great way to guide us to information about skills and how they connect to each other. In my opinion certificates should work in two fashions,
a. Work as an actual certificate, showing your character have actually trained these skills. In this sense it should be up to the player if he want these to be public or not. Taking away the public part, takes away grains of sand from the sanbox. Adding drag capability to it is nice!
b. Certificates should be a in depth guide to how skills corrolate to each other and what they are for. Lately alot this information have been stuck into the actual skills, removing any reason to view certificates in the first place. Example; you want to get into a carrier, you open certificates, you see the label capital ships, and you get all the information needed to get the "i can drive this carrier with support skills certificate, now im a real space captain #yarr". |

BiggestT
Amarrian Retribution Amarr 7th Fleet
60
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Posted - 2013.05.06 11:11:00 -
[104] - Quote
Certificates are bad by design.
The only super important skills recruiters usually want are:
-Ship skills (which you hardly include in certificates???!!!) -Basics like engineering, electronics, adv. weapon upgrades (so you can properly fit the ships you skilled for) -T2 guns/equipment
2/3 of these you can instantly tell by the ships and fitting's they field on killboards (most are honest about that anyway). The other one (fitting skills etc.) most people train early regardless.
You might get the odd question like, "Can you cyno?". This is only a short skill to train so it's not an issue.
Get rid of all these stupid fluff skill req's for certificates like "multi-tasking"; I have never needed this skill, locked targets are always limited by the ship itself anyway.
Make PVP specific certificates with the skill types above and you might actually get people using them.
And a big NO to listed elite/standard skills etc. It has no use as people may simply not have claimed them yet etc. |

Alsyth
28
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Posted - 2013.05.06 11:13:00 -
[105] - Quote
Allow us to create customized certificates in game and link them to others for them to save. A skillplan simply cannot be as effective because it's linear.
I would then create certificates for my corpmates to skill for: -bomber basic, advanced, elite -Snipe Zealot basic, advanced, elite (using medium beam turrets and nano-shield certificates) -Incursion Legion basic, advanced, elite (using medium beam turrets and armor tanking certificates) etc. And link them the exact corresponding fits.
Public certificates are useless for pvp players, unless you could make them public for corporation only.
For me who manages my corpies APIs and training, the combination of the above two would be absolutely awesome.
But at the moment I am not interested in certificates the slightest. Except to say "core competency elite", but then again, the certificates are really outdated. Shield compensations are not utterly useless for most players, so I tend to rewrite skillplans without them for new players (thus skipping the certificate).
|

Alsyth
28
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Posted - 2013.05.06 11:28:00 -
[106] - Quote
And also:
+1 to [CCP] certificates giving small bonuses (+0,+0.5,+1,+1.5% armor for armor reinforcement at different levels, etc.) as it would make some skills interesting. (shield compensation and tactical shield manipulation for instance) +1 for a whole revamp with the new skills (sensor strenght skills, reactive armor hardener...) +1 for some agents asking you certificates on top of/instead of standings, makes sense |

Talsha Talamar
Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa
8
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Posted - 2013.05.06 12:13:00 -
[107] - Quote
My basic problem with the current certificates is that they are still to generic and abstract as well as that there is no point in giving your enemy any kind of intelligence for free.
Also there are so many certificates that they seem to add another level of complexity for the new player and at the same time create a refuge from really understanding what skills do.
If certificates were more down to earth and provided essential skill templates for specific roles they would be much more useful and probably used. (tackler, inventor, t1 industrialist, freighter captain...)
Additionally I would love to see customizable certificates for player Corps:
- Defining custom certificates on corp/alliance level
This would allow every corp to communicate clearly to new and old player what skills it expects from them to fill a specific role. It would allow for both quality control and skill path orientation
- Connecting corporation level certificates with titles
Serves as a little motivational boost and allows the next point to be implemented.
- Querying those certificates from the corporation interface
Darn we need at least two Interdictors, who is online and can fly them? How many potential cap pilots do we actually have?
[quote=Alsyth]Allow us to create customized certificates in game and link them to others for them to save. A skillplan simply cannot be as effective because it's linear. |

Aducat Ragnarson
Cult of the Black Goat Dark Taboo
130
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Posted - 2013.05.06 12:44:00 -
[108] - Quote
Talsha Talamar wrote:[...]
- Defining custom certificates on corp/alliance level
This would allow every corp to communicate clearly to new and old player what skills it expects from them to fill a specific role. It would allow for both quality control and skill path orientation
- Connecting corporation level certificates with titles
Serves as a little motivational boost and allows the next point to be implemented.
- Querying those certificates from the corporation interface
Darn we need at least two Interdictors, who is online and can fly them? How many potential cap pilots do we actually have?
^This
It would really help with the organizational effort of leading a corporation, both at a small level, where the corporation leaders/directors/vets have to explain to each new person what he can/should skill for, that would allow him to fly with the other people. It would scale perfectly to alliance and large corp levels, where one can use this system to publish the accepted fleet doctrines.
|

JahMun
Anomalous Existence Disavowed.
9
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Posted - 2013.05.06 13:46:00 -
[109] - Quote
Current certificates are useless, remove the CCP certificates and add custom certificates! Custom certificates would actually be usefull, many good ideas in this thread about them. |

Alx Warlord
SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Last Resort.
456
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Posted - 2013.05.06 16:46:00 -
[110] - Quote
John 1135 wrote:Point. But also certs serve a purpose of helping people into the game and (if corp-customised) into corp roles. So that's a purpose that merits work I think. Assuming more players more often participating at a deeper level with the game = good.
I'm aware of that... the biggest piont is that this feature need the lowest number of devs possible, 2 at most, and working in a system that would be something like my other post. Crafted in a way that leaves the hardest work and the freedom in the hand of players.
maybe 3 devs if add this system with the training queue, so you select the desired certificate and it gets to the training queue (if you have the books.)
But I'm sure that there are other important features that really deserve allot of attention. Especially the infrastructure like the POS and SOV changes, that would allow small alliances and new players to find a way easier out of the "mission runner" game.
So, I only ask that CCP save man-hours in this feature.
Alx Warlord wrote: CCP Ytterbium,
Certificates are not interesting at all, because they don't really show your skill capabilities towards a task. The skill list show it better. They are too generic. Don't say if you are a good explorer, a good combat pilot, or a good miner. And definitely don't show if your skills matches the required for some corp to accept you.
So, I suggest you to take all this certificates out, and make new ones that actually show how are the character skills towards all EVE tasks and ships and situations...
But if you guys are going to plan all the certificates, and all the meaningful variations to cover all aspects of eve, you will have to hire hundreds of DEVS just for it... or you will end up with a frustrating feature in hands...
So I will give you the best option, Make certificates like the real life certificates (ISO 9002 for example), this certificates are not made by the govern. And Eve Certificates should not be made by CCP.
Put it in the hand of corporations!!!!
Allow corps CEO and directors to assembly custom Certificates, so corp members(or in case for an oppen certificate everyone), could click on them and check if the certificate is compatible with their skill, If so, they can claim and it becomes visible to the corp members. And the certificated pilot can post on chats to show it. If the corp CEO change the certificate people will have to claim it again.
I bet that EVE University will be the corp that will certify most of pilots with open certificates. and as most corps trust on them, this certificates will have value! (other then the current system)
also some big corps will need its pilots to train for their certificates.... or will only accept certified pilots, so probably the Director will only allow players certified by them to join.
What is your oppinion on this CCP Ytterbium? Don't you think this save your time and gives a good feature?
Please read these! > New POS system > New SOV system |
|

Deornoth Drake
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
24
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Posted - 2013.05.06 21:07:00 -
[111] - Quote
Some certificates are good guidelines ... others are, well, not.
E.g. not so good: Rare Ore Refiner - Improved ... requiring several processing skills at level 5 (not Arkonor, Bistot, Mercoxit) and Rare Ore Refiner - Elite ... requiring the missing skills at level 5 (Arkonor, Bistot, Mercoxit) What is missing? Rare Ore Refiner - ??? with Arkonor, Bistot, Mercoxit So, that a recruiter would know that you could use T2 crystals for mining
In case of processing skills, there are two things: - refining the ore and - using the crystals for mining One of them is covered (refining) the other one isn't (at least for Arkonor, Bistot, Mercoxit)
For mining, level 4 of each processing skill is enough. For refining, level 5 is required only in certain cases (outposts or some stations)
Anyway, recruitment would probably ask for a key and check your stats via eve-board or other things.
Developer commitment ... ask players to rework the certificates! They might be able to provide good ideas. Then the certificates might be even more useful. Concentrate on the "guideline" part and care less about the sharing part (-> plenty of tools available)
my 2 cents |

Quintessen
Jalepeno Self Sabatoge
59
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Posted - 2013.05.06 22:10:00 -
[112] - Quote
Please do NOT get rid of certificates. Right now they stink, but they would be very helpful if they were better. Right now I'm training up some friends in the game, but when I'm not there I can at least point them in the right direction.
Frankly the game has a bunch of UI issues and doesn't communicate information well. Certificates are just one example. Ships are another. Skills are okay, but could be a lot better.
There's no easy way to see the ships in the game broken up by role and by suggested or required skills/certificates.
I imagine creating a ship browser and next to each ship is five pips that indicate your ability to fly that ship/role. It wouldn't be comprehensive to everything, but it would help communicate what you can do in EVE and how good you are at flying certain ships.
This browser with your ships/roles would be visible to anyone who has a standing with you of your choice (terrible to excellent and then no one).
But this will require a commitment to maintain or else you'll just return to what you have now... an outdated mess. |

Caljiav Ocanon
4
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Posted - 2013.05.07 10:40:00 -
[113] - Quote
Just remove them already, save the server/database resources for other stuff. Though I fly through the valley of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am aligned to a safespot and warping out. - Me 2013 |

Shiva LaFayette
EvE-nt Horizon
0
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Posted - 2013.05.07 11:35:00 -
[114] - Quote
If you want certificates to be used in EvE, check out the way certificates are used in real life.
Usually certificates get framed and pinned to walls in offices.
In some rare circumstances they are entrance cards to (more or less) exclusive circles.
None of both is of any relevance to EvE - so why not simply bury (pod) certificates and concentrate on better aproches to improve EvE gameplay. Maybe EvE-Olution once will clone them back in game for some really good reason.
Face the truth - there currently is no need for certificates. |

Berluth Luthian
Meltdown.
68
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Posted - 2013.05.07 14:32:00 -
[115] - Quote
What if you could export a certificate straight from a fitting, then train skills from that certificate. It would get the assigned fitting name on a local folder, but the skills would only be applied that were plugged in, the rest would have to be bought obviously.
Other certificates could also be generated, and maybe attached to fittings to increase the effectiveness of the fit...
That way your corp could say, check out these 5 ships, get into A first, then B, then C, etc... |

commander aze
Sub--Zero
4
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Posted - 2013.05.07 17:48:00 -
[116] - Quote
certification holds no benefit... it gives away information about your target. also is not used for hiring purposes either... everyone checks api so we can see all their skills
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Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
487
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 18:05:00 -
[117] - Quote
It looks to me like you're approaching the problem from the wrong end. I've never seen anyone in game who publishes their certificates, and I have no idea what the point would be. We have more granular access to that information via the API and evewho--granting that evewho isn't an in-game resource.
We do use certificates, as a tool to help newbies, but the root problem is that we have to tell newbies what they are, why they're useful, when they're useful, when they aren't useful (because seriously, some of them are WTF) where the interface is, etc., etc., etc. It seems to me that you should worry about whether they're useful and well-integrated into the NPE and the game before you worry about something like this. Unless you're fishing for a role outside of skill training guidance? Thinking of them as EVE's version of achievements? I don't see how that would work, honestly.
Basically, what Quintessen said. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |

Stegas Tyrano
GLU CANU Open Space Consultancy
434
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 01:00:00 -
[118] - Quote
Integrate them into the application process. Let corporations set out their own certificates for different roles. Then when pilots applies to corp he can claim the certificates that he is eligible for and have them displayed in his application. There could even be a separate tab for Corp Certificates so directors, members can see what skills other corp members have. Herping your derp since 19Potato --á[Proposal] - Ingame Visual Adverts |

Spugg Galdon
APOCALYPSE LEGION The Obsidian Front
286
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 09:27:00 -
[119] - Quote
Quintessen wrote: There's no easy way to see the ships in the game broken up by role and by suggested or required skills/certificates.
I imagine creating a ship browser and next to each ship is five pips that indicate your ability to fly that ship/role. It wouldn't be comprehensive to everything, but it would help communicate what you can do in EVE and how good you are at flying certain ships. This browser with your ships/roles would be visible to anyone who has a standing with you of your choice (terrible to excellent and then no one).
But this will require a commitment to maintain or else you'll just return to what you have now... an outdated mess.
This is the only useful thing certificate could do. This is probably a very good suggestion Quintessen has made and is the best idea I've read for certificates so far.
It will be very complex to implement though. This is because the the five "pips" that would appear on the ship fitting screen would give you an overall idea of your skills to the ship AND its fitted modules. So it would have to average out the level of certificates for everything on your ship and also decide which certificates were relevent depending on what modules are fitted. You could then click on on the "pips" and have it expand and show all levels of certificates that are applying to the ship to see what is bringing your average down and where you need to concentrate SP to bring it up. This way a new pilot who jumps very quickly into a battleship can see that they only score 1/5 and can see that they really shouldn't be flying that ship until they improve that score.
Complex but actually a very good tool.
Am I making sense? |

Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Tribal Band
504
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 03:03:00 -
[120] - Quote
I display my important certificates publicly and it bothers me that I am so alone in this. I am in favor of a system that gets certificates to be used more, as long as I still have control over it. As it stands, I keep the majority of my certificates invisible because they are either redundant or do not accurately reflect my abilities. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. |
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