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Nantwig Mutbrecht
State War Academy
Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2013.06.12 23:41:00 -
[181] - Quote
First off, let me say WOW to the length of some of the posts in this thread. It had me floored.
Now onto the topic.
I agree with the general sentiment expressed by previous posters before me, certificates are ok for new players, but should remain private or on blue lvl. corp certs would be awesome.
1. Now, i think it should be emphasised that in order to be genuinly usefull to new players, the certificates need to be viewed in the same window as the skillque, perhaps with such a 'sliding' subwindow such as the new inventory filters; or it should be possible to drag / drop certs into the sqillque.
2. next, the names of Certificates need to be absolutly clear. no more "high-velocity Helsman". it needs to be something like "Staship Maneuverability"
3. The Tooltip of the Certificate is as important as the certificate itself. For example, the current tooltip for Fittingskills, basic.
Quote:This certificate represents a basic level of competence in fitting ships. It certifies that the holder is able to use baseline modules which improve power and CPU capabilities such as Co-Processors, Power Diagnostic Systems and Reactor Control Units. This is the first step towards broadening your fitting options.
This is what the tooltip should have Looked like:
Holders of this certificate have a basic proficiency at fitting Starships.
The Engineering Skill provides +5% Powergrid for all ships, permanently.
The Electronics Skill provides +5% CPU for all ships, permanently.
The Electronics Upgrades Skill enables the fitting of Co-processor I (LINK), which provides CPU. Higher Lvl of the skill provide more CPU by these modules.
The Energy Grid Upgrades Ski9ll enables the fitting of Reactor Control Unit I (link) Which provides more Powergrid.
All tooltips should at first glance allow a new player to see WHY they should train for this certificate, and what benefits they get by it. The whole point of Certificates is to prevent new players from having to click "show info" on all skills in the game. therefore the tooltips need to provide the most basic information on what benefits the player will get from that skill.
4. All Certificates need to be reworked. I think it might be a good idea to create one set of Certificates for Professions:
a) Exploration
b) Mining
c) Trading
d) Production
d.1) Reasearch
d.2)Planetary Interaction
e) Missioning [Social skills, Salvaging]
Furthermore :
f) Core Competency
g) Core Fitting
h) Core Tanking (shield / armor)
i) Core Capacitor
j) Core Navigation
k) Core Electronics (Targeting, Signalstr. ect.)
l) Gunnery
m) Missiles
n) Drones
o) Leadership
p) Piracy [EWAR, Points, Overheat, Nano paste, Boosters] i think i played the game for 7 month before i found out about boosters.
I know those are 18 Certs, but any less would really not help. for professions, you are only going to do one, really
Some more GENERAL guidelines concerning Certificates.
BASIC should take no more than one day to achieve
IMPROVED should be 2-4 skills to lvl 4
STANDARD should be ESSENTIAL skills lvl 5 , rest 4 (for fitting: Electronics, Engineering, Wepeon Upgrades 5, advanced 4, for example)
ELITE all V
Thats all i could think of for now.
EDIT : Looks like my post wasn't any shorter, lol. and they say people can't provide constructive critisism. |
Alsyth
34
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Posted - 2013.06.13 11:56:00 -
[182] - Quote
Bump for customized certificates or getting rid of them altogether :) |
Loki Feiht
Feiht Family Clan
80
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 10:32:00 -
[183] - Quote
Seems like a bit of a waste of time to me personally, they don't really hold any value and seem fine the way they are
More NPC thread
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=220858 |
Melek D'Ivri
Wheel Tappers And Shunters
20
|
Posted - 2013.06.19 22:15:00 -
[184] - Quote
If you are more or less removing them altogether, API certifcation might be a good way to go. Obviously anyone that does API checks on another pilot or is viewing them through a third-party board can just look at skills, but in a few cases being able to see they have a certificate might speed up the process for them.
I like certificates, but in real Eve, I've never seen a practical purpose. They are usually quite far off track from what a beginning pilot really needs, or unlocked with exceedingly unrelated skills. I'm glad you guys are looking at them! |
AurielS
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
0
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Posted - 2013.06.20 00:27:00 -
[185] - Quote
As many people already said, the problem with certificates is deeper than just a visualization issue. They need a complete overhaul.
In my opinion, the ideal solution would have the following points:
1) EVERYTHING is private by default
You can let the player link a specific certificate into a chat window, for example, but let every information about skills and
certificates be private by default. If the player wants to show something to someone, let him/her decide in that specific case, otherwise hide everything else.
2) Custom certificates
Different people value different skills in different situations. Define some default certificates that actually make sense
(e.g. capacitor-related skills, shield tanking, stealth bombers), but let people add, edit and remove certificates as they see fit.
Which skills are important heavily depend on the player, what he/she likes to do in the game, what are his/her goals. As someone else pointed out, turn the certificates into "custom bundles of skills" and let people decide if the default ones are sufficient or if they need something else.
3) Give a nice visual tool to navigate through certificates
You guys showed some amazing prototypes at Fanfest related to Ship Progression. Do it with certificates. Make it that when you open a certificate, you can see the tree of skills you should train, how long it will take, which ones do you already have (injected, trained, available and unavailable), which skills are pre-requisites to other skills, etc.
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Pantorus Necraliss
Giza'Msafara
6
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 07:42:00 -
[186] - Quote
Allow to show certificates to Corp, Alliance and Fleet (only to be see by FC, WC and SC) level pls
Corp will be the most used, mainly to help new pilots in their skill training queue. Fleet will help FC to manage his fleet. |
Yogsoloth
Origin.
Black Legion.
130
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 14:05:00 -
[187] - Quote
Hooray for wasted dev resources and useless bloated code ! \o/
* (unrelated) Now, can we get rid of the stoopid system sweep already. If I didn't care enough to act on it the first thousand times I saw it, why would I want to see it another thousand times. |
Sugar Kyle
The humbleless Crew
257
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 17:40:00 -
[188] - Quote
Being able to create our own or corporate certificates like fitting ships would be useful.
You could give them to newbies as training plans.
You could use them to make sure people could fly particular doctrines.
The public aspect seems silly. We spent so much time hiding things in this game.
Tilde soaked words from something kinda like a pirate. |
Caliph Muhammed
Caldari Investment and Security Industries
Enigma Project
403
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 05:35:00 -
[189] - Quote
I like certificates. I keep all of my elites on public display. It makes for something character related to link in the profile. I've collected quite a few.
Giving free intel means squat to me. If you want to know how I trained ill send you a list before I kill you. 
I do not however want to see my profile cluttered with basic comp certificates.
I won't bother arguing with people about the importance of them. I personally find them a good guideline for how to focus training. |
Oraac Ensor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
245
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Posted - 2013.06.21 10:33:00 -
[190] - Quote
The existing system is fine, don't waste time interfering with it - you must have far more important things to be doing. |
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Euripedies
nul-li-fy Inc.
Nulli Tertius
9
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Posted - 2013.06.21 23:49:00 -
[191] - Quote
The certificates are really good for knowing how skilled and in what direction your possible target is, hence it is not information I want known to those seeking to gank me. Although it is funny to see an elite hull tanker. |
Kraal Utrecht
Running with Knives
Nexus Fleet
9
|
Posted - 2013.06.22 09:18:00 -
[192] - Quote
I must agree on uselessness of certificates.
I am quite new pilot and the standard path is:
1. Check what I want to fly/fit/use/do.
2. Check what skills it needs according to point 1.
3. Set skill queue according to point 2.
Certificates in my experience are just for collecting purposes... and are BAD guideline. Common sense and experienced players from corp are best guideline.
Just like Oraac Ensor mentioned earlier in this topic - leave it as it is for now and spend this time to do something else of higher importance - I am sure there must be plenty of such things. |
Albert Spear
meadhan oidhche cinneach
HELM Alliance
19
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Posted - 2013.06.22 15:25:00 -
[193] - Quote
This is one of the few things in Eve that I think could disappear and cause little or no heart burn.
Without a major overhaul of what the certificates are, they are basically no useful. |
Theng Hofses
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Legion
15
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Posted - 2013.06.22 16:54:00 -
[194] - Quote
I would like to be able to completely disable certificates for my characters as the whole system has no redeeming value for more seasoned pilots and is an annoyance at best. The repeated notification of useless certificate is really a pain. If people want them, great, but let the other people opt out. |
Eija-Riitta Veitonen
Unicorn Enterprise
96
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Posted - 2013.06.22 22:34:00 -
[195] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Hello folks, We have long term plans to improve Certificates as a whole and we would appreciate your input regarding their public visibility. At the moment it is possible to set individual certificates as public by going into your character sheet, under the Certificates > Permissions Tab. Initial research has shown a low usage of characters set Certificates as public, we thus are considering the following options:
- Remove the ability to set Certificates as public
- Offer the ability to drag and drop individual Certificates, or a whole Certificate profile from a character into any kind of text input field (conversation channels or EVE mails for instance GÇô this already is possible for individual Certificates from the planner)
- Offer means to compare Certificates with a particular individual that give you permission with your own
- For bragging rights, display unlocked Certificates publicly on all character show info, but donGÇÖt mention to which fields they apply GÇô for instance, running a show info on character A would list this pilot has 53 Certificates to Elite, 24 to Standard, but do not allow me to know their names or related skills.
Would you feel comfortable with any of these options? Which ones do you like? Options outside that list may be considered as well, if expressed in a constructive manner. As another topic for you guys to voice your feedback to, what information would you feel worried about if it was displayed as public by default and why?In all cases, please note all of this remains high-level conceptual work that is in no way set in stone or even planned for the immediate future, which is why we are asking for your input in the first place. Many thanks for your time.
Don't remove something just because it's rarely used, especially if it's already in the game and working w/o issues. As per other options, those are cool, especially the comparison option, should be great tool to people who specialize in training new pod pilots or corporation recruiters to quickly assess pilot's capability. As for the last question, i'd be worried if any of the information on certificates would be by available publicly w/o the option to hide it. |
Cardith
United Individuals
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 06:05:00 -
[196] - Quote
I would like the idea of being able to create corp specific certificates. We are using prefitted ships lying in the corp hangar and it would be awesome if I could make a certificate which shows me if the corp member fulfills the requirements I want him to have.
greetings
Car |
Loki Feiht
Feiht Family Clan
83
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Posted - 2013.06.25 20:03:00 -
[197] - Quote
Maybe if you added a new gameplay element to them through some sort of 'training' arcs through the npc schools might provide some interest
More NPC thread
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=220858 |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
White Mountain Coalition
226
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 22:01:00 -
[198] - Quote
I just noticed that some certificates are now unclaimable as they require 'battlecruisers' skill which of course has been split into 4 racial variants. This would obviously require 4 racial certificates to put right. If this could be addressed I would be pleased as I've got noob in the alliance who likes collecting certificates.
Thanks for the good work, as I've mentioned previouly I like the structured training plan that certificates give me in terms of character progression.
Tiericide is tiers by another name. |
Swiftstrike1
Interfector INC.
Fade 2 Black
47
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 12:39:00 -
[199] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
For bragging rights, display unlocked Certificates publicly on all character show info, but donGÇÖt mention to which fields they apply GÇô for instance, running a show info on character A would list this pilot has 53 Certificates to Elite, 24 to Standard, but do not allow me to know their names or related skills.
That sounds awesome! I have a potentially controversial suggestion to make certificates generally more popular:
Basic Certificate: +0.25% bonus to all skills under this certificate
Standard Certificate: +0.5% bonus to all skills under this certificate
Improved Certificate: +0.75% bonus to all skills under this certificate
Elite Certificate: +1.0% bonus to all skills under this certificate
Failing that, some small yet tangible benefit to getting a certificate. Bragging rights are great, but they don't win fights :'( |
Tiber Ibis
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
64
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Posted - 2013.06.29 22:26:00 -
[200] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Hello folks, We have long term plans to improve Certificates as a whole and we would appreciate your input regarding their public visibility. At the moment it is possible to set individual certificates as public by going into your character sheet, under the Certificates > Permissions Tab. Initial research has shown a low usage of characters set Certificates as public, we thus are considering the following options:
- Remove the ability to set Certificates as public
- Offer the ability to drag and drop individual Certificates, or a whole Certificate profile from a character into any kind of text input field (conversation channels or EVE mails for instance GÇô this already is possible for individual Certificates from the planner)
- Offer means to compare Certificates with a particular individual that give you permission with your own
- For bragging rights, display unlocked Certificates publicly on all character show info, but donGÇÖt mention to which fields they apply GÇô for instance, running a show info on character A would list this pilot has 53 Certificates to Elite, 24 to Standard, but do not allow me to know their names or related skills.
Would you feel comfortable with any of these options? Which ones do you like? Options outside that list may be considered as well, if expressed in a constructive manner. As another topic for you guys to voice your feedback to, what information would you feel worried about if it was displayed as public by default and why?In all cases, please note all of this remains high-level conceptual work that is in no way set in stone or even planned for the immediate future, which is why we are asking for your input in the first place. Many thanks for your time.
I agree with some of the others on here. The reason certificates are not widely used is because they don't represent anything meaningful to the corporation looking to recruit. Running a corporation myself, what would be very useful would be the ability for me to create a certificate myself with the skills required to achieve it. And then if candidates do have the requirements for the certificate then they could drag and drop it into chat so that it would be visible to a recruiter.
Certificates generally at the moment aren't very useful, because the skills involved to get the certificates are for the most part meaningless to a corporation who needs a specific set of skills not listed on the certificates. |
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Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
181
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Posted - 2013.06.29 23:50:00 -
[201] - Quote
Personally I think the current certificate function is a bit boring, and basically is made obsolete by players sharing information on skills via 3rd party service api when needed.
However.. There is a potential to use certificates in a more engaging and meaningful way.
Make all npc corps open to join, but limited based on skills, certificates, and standings.
Exchange the current certificate system with an improved version of corp membership history.
This is basically the pilots CV and they should be allowed to make them visible or not as they see fit.
Also consider making our kill list kills / losses public from inside the client instead.
Thus the public shown kills and losses would be visible on player info based on inside client and thus 100% ccp confirmed information. The information would be updated at Down-Time.
Also a flag feature / notification from corps positive and negative should be considered added to the game. The equivalent to real life phoning the company for a statement, or the police to check criminal records.
A simplified version of the above would be really useful and give a lot more depth to the game.
Also it would get rid of those stupid long employment history lists that is only making it to easy to avoid spys and awoxers. Something a bit more demanding regarding background checking would be preferred..
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Nikolai Vodkov
Pro Synergy
44
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Posted - 2013.06.30 15:53:00 -
[202] - Quote
Allow us to make our own certificates? Sandbox it, players will figure out how to use them.
Run level 4 missions? -áIncrease your income and help new players earn ISK. -áJoin channel: Pro Synergy
Pro Synergy is looking for dedicated Salvagers. -áWant to learn more? -áJoin channel: Pro Synergy |
Liafcipe9000
Smeghead Empire
6805
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 07:29:00 -
[203] - Quote
I find certificates to be utterly useless, especially for their intended use of replacement of the need for API keys and access to a character's skill sheet(as said by a CCP during a fanfest years ago).
Remove certificates. nobody cares.
You may gain the knowledge, but you will lose your belief, with all its mystery and comfort. If there was proof, absolute and certain, there is an afterlife, why not quit this life, and be done with it?
Ponder about these things all your life, and you're a philosopher. Compress these ponderings into a couple of pages, and you'll go mad. |
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
181
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Posted - 2013.07.01 18:38:00 -
[204] - Quote
I think Certificates, Employment History and Decorations all need a big remake. Preferably one that integrates all the aspects, and gives them some new and proper used features.
Certificates:
Used for granting access to membership in npc corps, and thus granting a benefit to standing gains when doing PVE, while sacrificing isk via taxation. Tax in npc corps should be fixed to work on taxing all types of transactions in a well balanced way, and thus making it worth it to move into player corps.
Employment History.
This should be changed to a CV based function, where players can set visual parts. Also corps should be able to have an employment history log, that can be exported. The important missing part of this feature is showing length of time as a member better, and maybe granted roles and decorations. (see next)
Decoration
These are currently only vanity oriented this is making them less interesting to most players. A nice way to change this would be to integrate it into the implants system. Thus making it a sort of guild-booster. The corp issuing a decoration can install an implant that then grants a bonus to all members with the decoration. The price to grant the decoration would be base price + price of the installed implant. (the implant would be consumed when granting the decoration)
This would be 1 or 2 slots dedicated to this feature and maybe a specific type would be needed, or any existing implant could be used but at 50% efficiency, to add stacking penalty.
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Bloodpetal
Sal's Waste Management and Pod Disposal
The Mockers AO
1309
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 14:49:00 -
[205] - Quote
The only certificates I direct new players to is the Core skills, because they never seem to understand how valuable these things are.
I don't know what your plans to improve them are, but I think that few people use the certificates as is, and are misleading in other ways.
I don't think you should have any info displayed that we don't want displayed, either way.
I don't want people to know how many elite certs I have. I don't have an ego-narcissism issue. Deception is my tool of warfare. In fact, I would like to only show my novice certs so everyone thinks I'm a noob. 
More importantly, I think this feature needs to be streamlined into the corp management a bit more, I would say.
Where I am. |
Bloodpetal
Sal's Waste Management and Pod Disposal
The Mockers AO
1309
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 14:50:00 -
[206] - Quote
 Get out of EVE. The door is that way 
Caleb Ayrania wrote:I think Certificates, Employment History and Decorations all need a big remake. Preferably one that integrates all the aspects, and gives them some new and proper used features.
Certificates:
Used for granting access to membership in npc corps, and thus granting a benefit to standing gains when doing PVE, while sacrificing isk via taxation. Tax in npc corps should be fixed to work on taxing all types of transactions in a well balanced way, and thus making it worth it to move into player corps.
Employment History.
This should be changed to a CV based function, where players can set visual parts. Also corps should be able to have an employment history log, that can be exported. The important missing part of this feature is showing length of time as a member better, and maybe granted roles and decorations. (see next)
Decoration
These are currently only vanity oriented this is making them less interesting to most players. A nice way to change this would be to integrate it into the implants system. Thus making it a sort of guild-booster. The corp issuing a decoration can install an implant that then grants a bonus to all members with the decoration. The price to grant the decoration would be base price + price of the installed implant. (the implant would be consumed when granting the decoration)
This would be 1 or 2 slots dedicated to this feature and maybe a specific type would be needed, or any existing implant could be used but at 50% efficiency, to add stacking penalty.
Where I am. |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
Point Blank Alliance
809
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Posted - 2013.07.03 16:19:00 -
[207] - Quote
Quote:Remove the ability to set Certificates as public
Offer the ability to drag and drop individual Certificates, or a whole Certificate profile from a character into any kind of text input field (conversation channels or EVE mails for instance GÇô this already is possible for individual Certificates from the planner)
Offer means to compare Certificates with a particular individual that give you permission with your own
For bragging rights, display unlocked Certificates publicly on all character show info, but donGÇÖt mention to which fields they apply GÇô for instance, running a show info on character A would list this pilot has 53 Certificates to Elite, 24 to Standard, but do not allow me to know their names or related skills.
-I think the ability to set certs as public should stay unless having the option there causes problems elsewhere
-Being able to show specific certs and profiles would be a very strong improvement - my corp recruits a fair number of newbies and being able to see what they're skilling for would put me in a better position to know what they can do and where I can make suggestions.
-I'm not convinced a comparison feature would be exceptionally useful. If you really need to know who has better skills in an area, it's either completely obvious (one player is vastly more skilled in the area than the other), or so small that the differences probably wouldn't show up on the certificate level.
-No one would give half a **** about certificate statistics for "bragging rights". They don't mean anything, people don't think they mean anything. Certificates are only useful in that they are a skill training guideline for people who don't otherwise know what they should train. If I want to brag about how many skills I have trained I'll talk about my SP total or my SP total in particular skill groups.
Also, make sure when you're doing this revamp you actually sort which skills go in which certificates to include the newer skills
...And some of the certs need a revamp. Seriously, having targeting to V and Multitasking trained at all is completely useless unless you're flying Logi. There's no reason that low-level core competency certs should require them. Having low-priority skills to high levels in the certificates undermines the certs' purpose as a guideline to newbies. It's because of stuff like this that people point newbies to online skill guides rather than just telling them to look at the relevant certs. |
Octoven
Phoenix Productions
Headshot Gaming
166
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Posted - 2013.07.06 21:10:00 -
[208] - Quote
I think the focus needs to shift from things that arent game breaking to something that needs addressing. For instance just off the top of my head. I would rather see more attention give to eve voice rather then something that really doesnt make a difference like certs. |
YuuKnow
Terra-Formers
815
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 01:00:00 -
[209] - Quote
I like the current certificate setup as it is now. Please don't change it.
thx.
yk |
Zappity
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
169
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 03:00:00 -
[210] - Quote
Keep the core sets but concentrate on professions for the rest. "Lowsec PvP, missiles" or "Explorer, highsec" etc.
Completely useless once you are more familiar with the skill tree (i.e. you just talk about specific skills) so narrow usage down to new players.
Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.") |
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