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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Quintessen
Orion's Belt Mining and Pharmaceuticals
183
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Posted - 2013.09.13 20:50:00 -
[271] - Quote
Certificates should be publishable to your corporation and also your alliance. Additionally it might be worthwhile for there to be a way in game using something akin to locator agents to discover the certificates of others (which might lead to some interesting gameplay where people purposefully leave off one skill to hide their true abilities).
Certificates managed by corporations while good for those who like telling other people what to do isn't so good for new players who need an unbiased viewpoint and which has a minimal level of quality -- something impossible to maintain if the feature is primarily run by corporations. Also remember that a large chunk of your players are in corporations with a handful of people where there may not be a qualified individual to plan out certificates. Corporate run certificates also can't help people in NPC corps. All-in-all I don't think the corporate run certificates are worth the effort for those that need them. Big corporations have facilities and software for managing this stuff anyways. The 3rd party market will always serve those with a vested interest in that level of management. But for everyone else -- the players whom CCP can't seem to keep. A good certificate system would be a godsend that will help you keep players around. |
Wiu Ming
Dracos Dozen
56
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Posted - 2013.09.13 23:57:00 -
[272] - Quote
ignoring the "should they be public or private" debate, i think certificates' usefulness could be vastly improved by grouping them differently. currently, being an Elite EWAR Operator doesn't mean someone can fly a falcon well, or even at all. being an Elite Cloak Operator doesn't mean they can use a Covert Ops ship. the current certificates, while perhaps helpful to someone just starting the game (like Core Skills), are too disjointed and ambiguous to be of any real use later on.
consider breaking them down by ship type or class, for example, the new, improved Gallente Battleship Certificate:
Gallente Battleship
- Basic (bs 1, blasters & rails 1, armor comps 1, capacitor skills 1, etc.)
- Standard (bs 3, blasters & rails 4, etc.)
- Improved (bs 4, t2 blasters & rails to spec 3, etc.)
- Elite (bs 5, blaster & rail spec 5, armor comps 5, capacitor skills 5, etc.)
this isn't perfect by any means, but i think it's a step in the right direction. it would still help that brand new character skill for the type of ship they want to fly and would also help veterans improve on or max out a particular ship or class. also consider dropping from 4 levels to 3: Basic, Improved & Elite. others have mentioned Custom Certificates, and this style could better lead to those as well. |
Cage Man
262
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Posted - 2013.09.19 01:43:00 -
[273] - Quote
I think for new players having the certificates to plan your training to is a really neat feature, I would say keep them. I see no value in showing other players my certificates, why give away free intel. I only claim mine to stop evemon from giving the popups.
The thick plottens... |
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
513
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Posted - 2013.09.19 15:33:00 -
[274] - Quote
Ravasta Helugo wrote:Suggestion:
Add cert based restrictions to corporate applications.
Allow the corp to reject automatically applicants in station that do not have x, y or z cert.
They should be custom then. All too often I see stuff like "these certs plus those skills minus those skills" on recruitment boards.
For that matter, "auto-reject" may be not too good of an option if there are no alternatives to it except disabling them. Automatically sort applicants by availability of theese ot those skills (with an option to auto-decline) would be nice. |
Mioelnir
Cataclysm Enterprises
Easily Offended
105
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Posted - 2013.09.19 20:59:00 -
[275] - Quote
DetKhord Saisio wrote:I suggest you think about the certificate visibility in terms of a poker game. You do not want to show your hand until you have to.
With this game, showing your hand to anyone too early could cause you to become easier to kill. PvP is not a poker game, but I think everyone can figure out the translation.
Or think of them like an encryption algorithm. If they are good, making them public changes nothing. |
Ahnn
Space Zombiez
2
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Posted - 2013.09.20 15:54:00 -
[276] - Quote
Velarra wrote:Remove entirely or leave them as is.
While your return to them is surprising, please invest dev time elsewhere.
QFT.
The time investment to get Certs to any sort of meaningful useability would be much better spent elsewhere. |
Shivanthar
Thrilling Institution of TaTas
Permanent Mental Syndrome
9
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Posted - 2013.09.20 19:25:00 -
[277] - Quote
- Make their visibility as is. We can choose its publicity anyway.
- Make them much harder to achieve.
- Remove basic - std - imp - elite, just names. EWAR Cert = old ewar elite for example.
- Generalize them and make their count decrease (Example: Ewar = all ewar related @ level V, Defense = all at+st @ level V)
- Since they are much harder to achieve, give bonus upon completing a certification (Example: Ewar cert = increase optimal+falloff and strength by %3 of all ewars).
- Give player a credit for its completion for a cert via in-game mail.
Just brainstorming. |
Psychoactive Stimulant
TinklePee
33
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Posted - 2013.09.21 15:20:00 -
[278] - Quote
No one cares much but here:
Make them optionally public, and make them optionally searchable, so if someone needs something done (pow pow), people can hire out their skills. That's really the only way to do it.
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Yolo
Yolo Corp
23
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Posted - 2013.09.23 03:15:00 -
[279] - Quote
I like my public certificates. :-(
But I agree that certificates needs an overhaul
- since 2003, bitches |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
663
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Posted - 2013.09.23 23:50:00 -
[280] - Quote
Certificates aren't useful because the one thing they would be good for (demonstrating which skills you have trained to someone who is evaluating your character) is better dealt with through the API, which gives much more information and doesn't require you to memorize or look up individual "certificate" requirements to make sense of things. Unless you tie certificates to mission handouts or something (or discontinue the skills api) there will never be a use for them. |
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Anthar Thebess
REPUBLIKA ORLA
C0VEN
140
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Posted - 2013.09.25 13:47:00 -
[281] - Quote
Rethink all certificates.
I think i saw some notifications on one of my chars that over 90 certificates are claimable. ( and i click there from time to time , to stop this spam)
There is to much of those certificates - simplify them, and limit their numbers.
For example:
Gallente (Battle)cruiser Basic
- med guns and all needed skills to lvl 3
Gallente Battlecruiser Standard
- t2 guns / t2 res / support skills lvl 4
Gallente Battlecruiser Advanced
- all T2 / all support skills lvl 5
Support skills for me are all connected to cap/powergrid/speed/damage. |
Mars Theran
Red Rogue Squadron
Heart 0f Darkness
1658
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Posted - 2013.09.26 02:06:00 -
[282] - Quote
If players weren't so focused on having complete access to all your information whenever you apply to a Corp or Alliance, then certificates might be more relevant. As is, they are not, and whatever you do with them is likely a waste of time. They are a cool, (and I mean relatively interesting), feature, but there is no specific use for them in the game.
I don't see any point in wasting time on them.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub |
Obsidiana
White-Noise
221
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Posted - 2013.09.27 05:51:00 -
[283] - Quote
Can someone explain to me why I have to "claim" a certificate that really doesn't do anything? |
ArchenTheGreat
BRAB0
The Volition Cult
14
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Posted - 2013.09.27 16:18:00 -
[284] - Quote
Obsidiana wrote:Can someone explain to me why I have to "claim" a certificate that really doesn't do anything?
Probably to avoid server overload. If you have to claim certifate it is an single action started by you. Claiming certificate by server require some sort of a worker thread which periodically claimes them. Of course there are ways to avoid this problem* but CCP is too lazy to implement it. I see this pattern in many different places.
*server could claim all certificates on login and after login your client can periodically check if they are ready to claim and inform server. |
Lukas Langeheuvel
13 Rocks and Wrecks LTD.
Vindication Mob
0
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Posted - 2013.09.27 16:40:00 -
[285] - Quote
Making certificates public to me is giving away information about your character to everyone. Alot of people would not do that. If you can set the visibility to just your corp/alliance, it would be pretty good so everyone can keep tabs on what their corp/alliance mates can do. |
Jaz Antollare
Deadly Loneliness
25
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Posted - 2013.09.27 21:43:00 -
[286] - Quote
I like the first 3 Ideas,
don't show them publicly
Drag them into text
and look at them on permission! |
Jack Miton
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
2334
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Posted - 2013.09.30 23:49:00 -
[287] - Quote
Why remove the option to set certificates public?
This is disappointing to me since I like to set all my Elite certificates public so that people know I am better than they are.
I don't see any reason to remove the functionality, it's not like the system forces you to make them public if you don't want to.
Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ |
Yolo
Yolo Corp
xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx
47
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Posted - 2013.10.03 08:55:00 -
[288] - Quote
I like certificates being possible to set as public, so people can view how awesome I am. ;)
However, what I find more important is that custom certificates can be designed for recruitment situations for example.
We recuire that you have "this" certificate (custom group of skills), the recruit claims the certificate (from link) and then re-posts it as where it displays as claimed eg; the recruit has the base skills required.
This could in turn allow for custom roles based on corporation certificates, when you have capital and jumpskills, you get access to hangar 4 which is fuel hangar, as an example.
Other than that, I would expect that career choices are introduced that are more inline with what people do.
One thing I would like to enlighten is the usage of refining skills as a pre-requisit for t2 mining crystals and mining certificates.
refining is not equal to mining, its like if your production required your science to be maxed, or missiles for gunnery skills.
They are similar, but they are not related in such a way that it is defendable to force players to train refining skills, allow it to be a specialization for those who want to be good at refining.
Also, as always before, I have always thought that spacship command and advanced spaceship command along with navigation should be the skills that determines if you can fly a given ship. While all other skills are focused on bonuses to make the ship usable to its full potential. eg; the only required prerequisit should be spacehip command (t1) or advanced spacehip command (t2) and navigation (class dependant).
- since 2003, bitches |
Rykki Atruin
IPC Logistics
0
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Posted - 2013.10.04 13:28:00 -
[289] - Quote
As a 4 month old player I can say that the "Core Competency" certificates were very useful to me. I really like the idea of having a clear way to see just how well (or not) I'm flying that new battleship, because let's be honest the first time I sat in a BS I was way underskilled and did better damage with a battlecruiser.
Now that I have a better idea of what my skill goals are (EveMon FTW) I still find myself recommending to all new corp members to get their "Core Competency - Basic" cert as soon as possible followed very shortly with either the armor or shield defense cert.
TL;DR
Certs are awesome for new players like me. |
Barzhad
Hoplite Brigade
White-Lotus
0
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Posted - 2013.10.17 08:01:00 -
[290] - Quote
I think the mature thing on CCP's side would be to yield to the masses and admitting that certificates have no value.
not only they are pretty useless for recruiters, ship-fitting and bragging they are pretty obsolete with the revised skill tree from Odyssey where all the skills make perfect sense in their categories and people would skill according the skill group. for example: I fly Minmatar. so, that usually speed and shields, no? let's see what we have in the shield and navigation skill categories - this is much more informative.
also, some certs are misleading you to think that the skills that are required to obtain them are all equally important, like Core Competency has targeting skills, this is so not necessary to be a competent pilot compared to, say, CPU management.
this is a very generic and not very effective way of prioritizing skills. every non-noob pilot can go over the list in EVEmon and see for himself what he needs and prioritize better. this besicaly makes the certs only relevant to newbies but after a few weeks they too will move on to evemon and forget about them. |
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Silent Cyborg
WIFI Express
TAXU
1
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Posted - 2013.10.17 23:39:00 -
[291] - Quote
Well I have been avoiding this forum because of not knowing how to respond about certificates with out insulting CCP more so then I do on any good day.
CCP take a look at the web site www.fleet-up.com then load a fitting in to the web site and see how effective your toon is in that ship. Look at the amazing work put in to calculate how well you are in that ship.
Right now take what you seen and imbed it in to game as certificates or the Mastery lvl on the ship. Much better and more useful. then put in a system that if I was assisting a fellow corp mate in fitting a ship that when I link up my fit he/she can see how effective they would be in that ship.
The system for this is already around and you really wouldn't have to actually do much work to bring it in to game.
as for certificates as they are and the 'Mastery' system your introducing they suck balls as according to the test server my alt is lvl2 mastery for a few battle cruisers such are the drake.
Slight problem........He doesn't have Caldri Battlecruiser trained???? shouldn't I be able to fly the ship as part of the mastery? FAIL!
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Krios42
Unified Combatants
Against ALL Authorities
3
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Posted - 2013.10.20 22:35:00 -
[292] - Quote
I think removal of the the option to make them visible. It's not really a bragging thing, and if anything, could give a hostile information on your abilities. If people want to make that public, they can hand out API keys, or use eveboard. |
Mars Theran
Red Rogue Squadron
Heart 0f Darkness
1659
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Posted - 2013.10.25 01:33:00 -
[293] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Why remove the option to set certificates public?
This is disappointing to me since I like to set all my Elite certificates public so that people know I am better than they are.
I don't see any reason to remove the functionality, it's not like the system forces you to make them public if you don't want to.
I have elite certs, and there's lots of people better than me. 
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub |
Sky Falcorr
Perkone
Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2013.10.26 16:54:00 -
[294] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Offer the ability to drag and drop individual Certificates, or a whole Certificate profile from a character into any kind of text input field (conversation channels or EVE mails for instance GÇô this already is possible for individual Certificates from the planner)
Offer means to compare Certificates with a particular individual that give you permission with your own
i would like to have the ability to create custom certificates\certificate lists.
this could be used to allow other players "sign" them which would show if the signing character has or has not the skills needed for this certificate.
should be usable not only by corp\alliance , but by any private person\community to verify if respondents answer to certain criteria |
Sarah Stallman
International Unification
32
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Posted - 2013.10.26 17:23:00 -
[295] - Quote
Personally, I don't really see the intelligence problem with certs being public. For anyone who would care, you can get a better idea of their skills by looking at their lost fits on kill boards. |
Felo Maxun
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
21
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Posted - 2013.11.10 16:24:00 -
[296] - Quote
I would like them to remain public, or atleast visible to corperation members, might be a bit more of a useful option. Its not jsut about bragging rites, its also a good internal intel tool and handy for recruiting low sp pilots into training corps. |
Karle Tabot
State War Academy
Caldari State
30
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Posted - 2013.11.10 18:49:00 -
[297] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Hello folks, We have long term plans to improve Certificates as a whole and we would appreciate your input regarding their public visibility. At the moment it is possible to set individual certificates as public by going into your character sheet, under the Certificates > Permissions Tab. Initial research has shown a low usage of characters set Certificates as public, we thus are considering the following options:
- Remove the ability to set Certificates as public
- Offer the ability to drag and drop individual Certificates, or a whole Certificate profile from a character into any kind of text input field (conversation channels or EVE mails for instance GÇô this already is possible for individual Certificates from the planner)
- Offer means to compare Certificates with a particular individual that give you permission with your own
- For bragging rights, display unlocked Certificates publicly on all character show info, but donGÇÖt mention to which fields they apply GÇô for instance, running a show info on character A would list this pilot has 53 Certificates to Elite, 24 to Standard, but do not allow me to know their names or related skills.
Would you feel comfortable with any of these options? Which ones do you like? Options outside that list may be considered as well, if expressed in a constructive manner. As another topic for you guys to voice your feedback to, what information would you feel worried about if it was displayed as public by default and why?In all cases, please note all of this remains high-level conceptual work that is in no way set in stone or even planned for the immediate future, which is why we are asking for your input in the first place. Many thanks for your time.
Please do not display any additional information about my characters by default, specifically including, but not limited to, the state of my certificates.
I pay to play a game here, and I should be the one making these decisions about my character information, and not you. |
Chanina
ASGARD HEAVY INDUSTRIES
Kadeshians
44
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Posted - 2013.11.12 08:35:00 -
[298] - Quote
Making certificates public isn't used much, don't want to tell your enemy how good you are right?
Viewable on permission sounds good.
A simple "Corp only" might be good too especially for trainee corporations. By default it should be off.
- remove public | yes
- drag and drop certificates | a fine idea
- comparing | good one
- for bragging | not needed, should be opt in but default hidden. |
Varenth Esher
Reverberation Inc
2
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Posted - 2013.11.12 20:26:00 -
[299] - Quote
I'm sorry I don't really have the spare time to read more than the OP, but I did want to jump in and voice my take on the subject.
I use certificates to be able to prove to others that I do in fact have the required skills for certain roles/ships/mods without having to show them all my skills through an api. It allows me to boast some of my skill set while allowing for the ability to keep hidden other aspects of my characters. |
Chris Carlyle
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
0
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Posted - 2013.11.19 11:39:00 -
[300] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Hello folks, We have long term plans to improve Certificates as a whole and we would appreciate your input regarding their public visibility. At the moment it is possible to set individual certificates as public by going into your character sheet, under the Certificates > Permissions Tab. Initial research has shown a low usage of characters set Certificates as public, we thus are considering the following options:
- Remove the ability to set Certificates as public
- Offer the ability to drag and drop individual Certificates, or a whole Certificate profile from a character into any kind of text input field (conversation channels or EVE mails for instance GÇô this already is possible for individual Certificates from the planner)
- Offer means to compare Certificates with a particular individual that give you permission with your own
- For bragging rights, display unlocked Certificates publicly on all character show info, but donGÇÖt mention to which fields they apply GÇô for instance, running a show info on character A would list this pilot has 53 Certificates to Elite, 24 to Standard, but do not allow me to know their names or related skills.
Would you feel comfortable with any of these options? Which ones do you like? Options outside that list may be considered as well, if expressed in a constructive manner. As another topic for you guys to voice your feedback to, what information would you feel worried about if it was displayed as public by default and why?In all cases, please note all of this remains high-level conceptual work that is in no way set in stone or even planned for the immediate future, which is why we are asking for your input in the first place. Many thanks for your time.
I'm still a bit of a rookie and I love the certificates, because they give me an idea of what skills I need to get info.
I do not, however, share all of them them publicly. Certificates can easily reveal PvP relevant information and allows hostile forces to take advantages of the 'gaps' in my combat training.
My list would look like this:
- Don't remove the ability to set Certificates as public, but make it opt-in.
- Offer the ability to drag and drop individual Certificates, or a whole Certificate profile from a character into any kind of text input field (conversation channels or EVE mails for instance GÇô this already is possible for individual Certificates from the planner)
- Offer means to compare Certificates with a particular individual that give you permission with your own
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