Actually, it is a huge lack of ice. The anoms will be mined out immediately every time they spawn. We will not be able to have a mining op for one day on the weekend and get all of the ice we need for one month - it won't be there. Instead, we will have to mine a little bit at a time, every day, and probably move to other systems to find ice that hasn't been mined out.

The main issue I see is the total amount of ice available in the whole Eve universe. It is not enough to fuel all of the POSs and capitals in the game at the moment. Imagine the huge effect on the economy and movements in nullsec, if there simply is not enough fuel for everything, regardless of price.

Are you saying that instead of supplying your empire with 1 belt, for one weekend a month, you have to use your space daily? And possibly take more space? Fugging CCP, those MONSTERS

I read somewhere that high sec currently supplies 90%+ of ice demand and the new changes will reduce this to 80% [...].

Beware that 94% is based on the ice mined in the whole universe and after patch they want to reduce the quantity of ice enough to cover the 80% of the demand of the whole universe. They are two different things.

So if every day in the universe 1m of ice blocks are mined (numbers just made-up) but the demand in the whole universe is of 100k, that 94% is referred to that 1m (so 940k blocks are mined in HS).
What they want to do after patch is that HS will be able to give only 80k blocks per day (the 80% of the demand).

So it's not easy to say "lowsec, nullsec miners will have to mines x% more than before" without knowing what is the actual demand.

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Anyone want to check my math? This is what I get in my spreadsheet for a single anom in a strong truesec null system:


Heavy water: 1268750
Liquid Ozone: 1615000
Nitrogen isotopes: 1225000

This is enough ice to make 122500 fuel blocks; which is enough to fuel 4.25 large POSs for 1 month. Basically, we can fuel 21 POSs for 1 month, per day, if we are mining 23/7.

Who mines 23/7?

We will not have enough ice in nullsec to support our alliance. Our jump bridges, moon mining, capital jumps, rorq compression, etc will all come to a screeeching halt.

Please tell me I am wrong... I really hope this is not the case.

Regards

No, the 90%+ is the quantity mined in HS in respect of all the ice mined in the universe.

I'll quote myself:

if we mine all ice anomalies, we can supply 4 times and more the demand

so no lack of ice just people who dont want to move or mine in low sec or null sec

end of the large afk

it would seem that "I" (as well as many of us ICE miners) am not understanding the change if you are accurate.
From what i read, our current almost Unlimited supply (huge rocks) of ICE in High sec is now going to be Veldspar size rocks with a grand total of only 2500 blocks per system spawn.

Well my little mining fleet of 8 miners, an Orca and Freighter pilot currently mine about 3500 blocks a field run. As well as a whole bunch of other little ships with rock lasers blasting all around me. About 50 miners at once I think most of the time in my belt. For sure, the big business ICE runners are going to be moving on after the patch as it's just not workable to fight for such minimal supply (unless of course the prices are insane on the product).

The Dev post looked like it spelled out current supply, as in USE. With such a drastic change in quantity of rock size and availability, it would seem a huge change is going to occur.

How did you figure the 4X's number from the DEV post. I may have missed the part where it was stated that X number or blocks are used total so we are going to multiply that by 4 and give you that many blocks to mine?

Who the hell runs corp ice mining ops anyways. Fuel is cheap, it's a waste of time.

I mean, if you have 40 accounts mining dark glitter then I guess ~you go girl~ but otherwise it's kind of dumb

21 POSs for 1 month, PER DAY, if you mine all day means you can fuel 630 POSs if you mine 1 ice anomaly 23/7

Who the hell runs corp ice mining ops anyways. Fuel is cheap, it's a waste of time.



I mean, if you have 40 accounts mining dark glitter then I guess ~you go girl~ but otherwise it's kind of dumb

at the moment, nobody probably does.

however, at current prices when odyssey hits ice will be worth more isk/hour than ore so every one who does any kind of mining activity will be all over those belts like carrion crows.

granted 50m/hour in an ice anom isn't quite as good as the what, 60-80m you can get in a hub with a talos right now? but how viable is that going to be after the changes to hubs? not to mention, an ice miner will set you back exactly 1 plex and an empty character slot, large t2 blasters take almost twice as long to train for on their own, before you consider the hull, the support skills etc.

i think interesting things will happen in odyssey, and i like it.

That's why its called emergent gameplay, if everyone's gameplay only mirrored yours, Eve would be a very boring place.

CNR will probably be the new talos. I don't have the PYFA files to theorycraft anything, but hubs are still likely going to be better than mining. It's just that easymode blaster boats are mostly dead. But don't forget that the skills to run hubs directly translate to actually shooting people.

Another thing to remember is that ice products don't really compress. There's Rorqual ice compression, but that's already a joke. And the patch is going to make it twice as irrelevant.
So relative to ore mining (or ratting, heh) it costs tons to get the product to market. Stront is literally unprofitable to sell, and heavy water just barely makes a profit. I cba to grab the numbers again, but transportation takes off something like 15% of the value of 0.0 ice mining (assuming you're not JFing things around yourself, and then it just takes forever).


e: Unless you sell it at your local 0.0 market hub, and glhf moving any real amount of product doing that.

So you don't disagree that ~corp mining ops~ are a terrible misuse of a corp's manpower?



e: Hey, gotta make your CEO rich somehow.

e: Unless you sell it at your local 0.0 market hub, and glhf moving any real amount of product doing that.

Hopefully the market will change significantly with Odyssey. Right now when you mine isotopes you have to compete with hisec multiboxers. That will change and prices are going up. More people will build their fuel blocks locally and so local demand for LO and HW will also increase.

CNR will probably be the new talos. I don't have the PYFA files to theorycraft anything, but hubs are still likely going to be better than mining. It's just that easymode blaster boats are mostly dead. But don't forget that the skills to run hubs directly translate to actually shooting people.

That's why its called emergent gameplay, if everyone's gameplay only mirrored yours, Eve would be a very boring place.

emergent gameplay is when players figure out new and better ways to do things, not do pointlessly dumb things for no explicable reason

The 4 hours gap between anomalies respawn is beyond comprehension to me.

Lets say I am an ice miner. This profession, just like ore mining, is active. You do something actively and you get a reward for doing so. Well...not anymore...

You can do ice mining for an hour maybe IF you are lucky and then either wait for 4 hours (what an interesting activity to wait....who thought of that...?) or go do something else...

That doesn't make you an ice miner right? The whole profession is now part time and you are forcing people to do other stuff with toons that they trained for that specific profession.

This will end up being one of the worse decisions you have ever made, based on subscriptions you will lose.

The part where ice was split to small chunks is great, that was needed for sure. AFK mining is now impossible, which is not a bad thing, and bots will have to adjust which should at least stop some of them, hopefully most. OK well done there.

But the 4 hours of waiting for a respawn is unacceptable and you'll see that. I'm pretty sure you'll change that...the sooner you do it the better for your wallet CCP.

... like using the forums to swagger and grief Miners.

Wow, very clever. Never realized that... Sarcasm in its worse...

You do realize that ice mining is completely different than ore mining, right? Ore mining requires a lot more attention than ice mining.

Ice mining is basically like real life fishing. It doesn't require a lot attention most of the times but still a lot of people find it very exciting.

Ore mining is completely different in any way and I assure you that not all people that like ice mining will like ore mining (and the opposite of course). CCP has decided to stop people fishing without giving them something similar to do and that can't be good for them and us.

Now regarding CCP's wallet, I don't think Odyssey is so good in other aspects as to replace the thousands of accounts that the ice miners will deactivate. I for example have 8 accounts only for mining. 6 miners, 1 orca, 1 freighter. Most probably I will only keep 1 or 2 active. The rest will be deactivated until CCP decides to lower the ice anomaly respawn timer down to 5 to 20 minutes which they will eventually do. Unless of course they find some other way to attract multiboxers like me :)

Oh you poor dear, having to interact with eve every 7 or so minutes must be heartbreaking.


e: As opposed to the 10 or so that ice miners can pull off under the current mechanics.
Also, ice mining is like fishing if you are casting your line in a stocked pond full of half starved fish that are basically guaranteed to bite. And the fish are all too small to be a challenge.
Then take away the whole ~peaceful outdoors~ part too.