I'd venture that the vast majority of logistics is done at a corporation level, so bringing in blue-donut crying is a non sequitur.

Corporations doing their own logistics has what to do with them being independent from an alliance or coalition?

The non sequitur is all yours.

Doing their own logistics makes them independent when discussing logistics. Try following an actual line of discussion instead of jumping on-board meaningless and irrelevant bluedonut crying, and then people won't have to constantly be explaining the context to you.

I'd venture that the vast majority of logistics is done at a corporation level, so bringing in blue-donut crying is a non sequitur.

Im still reading page 6 but i want to give my experience.

I used to roam Fade/Pureblind/Dek in 2006. Group of 4-8 people, had engages on every system with station with similar groups of people. Why?, because they couldnt afford to be paralized by our gang roaming, they where separated from the rest of the aliance (no blob), and needed to pass through our gang.

So in your world some corp in the alliance who has their convoy intercepted would be on their own? Cool story.

Fact is the more people who are in your corp, alliance, blue, whatever - the easier and faster you can do things like projection of power and, more so on topic, logistics. That is the ice cold reality of it. No spin.

No, but it would mean that corps would get bigger and fewer, while they would blend even deeper together in even larger organizations (alliances and coalitions).

Crying about a blue doughnut.

[quote=Sukur]Im still reading page 6 but i want to give my experience.

What's to stop them from just flying cloaky/nullified T3s past you now.

Ok, so you have no actual point and are just trying, unsuccessfully, to "win something" on an internet spaceships forum. Got it.

No rose colored glass here but game is worse now.

There where stupid things like T2 bpo, **** balance (nanophoons where worst WTF i seen in any game). But null sec delivered sense of living on a deep far away place and had fun every day. Now you are closer to Jita than many constelations in lowsec, and cant get a fight because power proyection is so good that you always fight with the whole enemy.

With a nerfbat.

No rose colored glass here but game is worse now.

There where stupid things like T2 bpo, **** balance (nanophoons where worst WTF i seen in any game). But null sec delivered sense of living on a deep far away place and had fun every day. Now you are closer to Jita than many constelations in lowsec, and cant get a fight because power proyection is so good that you always fight with the whole enemy.

be a man, cyno in some heavy interdictors and have at them.

Speaking from experience - a single max-skilled Nyx will 2-volley a typical freighter or JF.

Fighter Bombers volley every 15 seconds.

Adding in some travel time for the Fibos, this means that inside of probably 45-50 seconds, from start to finish, the raison d'+¬tre of your convoy fleet is dead.

Unless you have no qualms with tossing loaded freighters or JFs out as bait, there are better ways to get fights.

Relies only on itself is pretty self explanatory. Small of course depends on the individuals point of view.

"Don't nerf the titan jump bridges because it will nerf the slot 9 crew hull modifier!"

See.

this scenario shine's light on the effect all jump capable ships have had on eve.

waking up at 2am to shoot a tower seemed much better than waking up at 00.00,to do about 4 hours of pathfinding, travel upwards with the convoy, arrive at destination at about 6-8am, getting 2-3 hours of sleep, do about 4 hours of scouting upwards and downwards the route, travel another 2-4 hours slower than snail's pace, and that's considering you don't get any hostiles in the way.


it wasn't pretty, it was too hard. JF's came and made it too easy.

Unless you have no qualms with tossing loaded freighters or JFs out as bait, there are better ways to get fights.

CCPs motivation was to bring more ppl to 0.0. Making it easy to get stuff there should accomplish that, they thought. Well, all they got was 0.0 folk saying "oh, look, we don't need that many ppl now, lets do all the logistics with fewer ppl = more money for us".

Rest assured that your noble CSM representatives are currently working with CCP on how to make 0.0 manufacturing a viable option.

Increasing population and activity through incentives to bear the increased risk is the best way to create more PvP opportunities for those that seek it.

This might be interesting for you...Find out how many ships are destroyed in nullsec on a daily/weekly/monthly basis or whatever...Then look at the total manufacturing capabilities of nullsec and ask yourself if nullsec can be self-sustaining? It can't.

So nerfing logistics is not the key. Just because it is 'difficult' to catch a freighter/JF doesn't mean you don't have more access to PvP BECAUSE of their existence.

Isn't restricting ice supply a way to combat that?

Presumably, if CCP wanted to, they could continue to tweak fuel prices until jumping is no longer economical, and would be restricted to only for special circumstances.

How about the argument that no one says you should be able to support a 5000 man 0.0 alliance out of just a couple stations? Where is this a written right and intended consequence? Are there not hundreds of arguments to make against eternal escalation?

How about linking to where anyone's asking for such a thing?

Again this comes back to just how massive the imbalance is. People simply don't want to believe it and they act as if it's the normal kind of EVE imbalance where Cruiser A has 10% more DPS than Cruiser B or something. Instead we're looking at an imbalance situation where Cruiser A has 295 DPS and Cruiser B has 10 DPS.

There are 5 systems in Caldari hi-sec that, combined, have 10% more production slots than THE WHOLE OF SOV NULL.

5 systems.

There are 28 systems in hi-sec that each have more slots than any sov region.

No one is asking to be able to make it so that a 5000 character alliance can be supported by "just a couple of systems". It sure would be nice if they could be supported by "just a couple of regions" though.