The amusing thing that most of the advocates of "nerf null-sec logistics" fail to realise (or do but don't care) is that if you nerf JFs for example, you are nerfing small corps and individuals in null.
L

Why is there no way for us to attack supply lines in eve?

That's exactly it. A 10,000 character coalition wouldn't sneeze at any change, that 10 man corp of real life buddies living in Curse and carrier jumping ships in to play with and killing stuff would do more than sneeze lol.

[
Thats the other "the sky is falling" argument. No, small corps don't need JFs, thank you very much. When i can support 50ppl with 1 carrier and 1 rorqual something is wrong in the equation (i have done it, have you?).

Small corps don't need to do large freighter runs, they just don't. They use other ships, smaller ships, faster ships, cloaky stuff. There are ways to do it right now, it just got too easy so now everyone seems to think to be entitled to do it "the easy way...because".

And if they don't want to, they buy from larger entities where they live. And no, small corps will NEVER challange the large alliance, with or without a JF's.

They didn't back in 2003/4/5, and they don't today. We have tried both ways, thats not whats stopping small corps from taking over. Get over it.

What's the reward for manufacturing in 0.0 instead of hisec?

That's exactly it. A 10,000 character coalition wouldn't sneeze at any change, that 10 man corp of real life buddies living in Curse and carrier jumping ships in to play with and killing stuff would do more than sneeze lol.

Why are outposts so gimped? Why do they not have 100 manufacture slots? Why must refining, research, manufacture be spread out all over the place?

Why not?

How else would one kill a cargo ship with no module slots than with a "gank"? I'm interested to hear your 'non-gank' methodology of doing so. Convo the pilot, challenge him to rock-paper-scissors and the loser honourably self destructs? Please do enlighten us "nullseccers".


Who do you think is operating those JFs? "Even hi-seccers" aren't sufficiently uninformed of game mechancis to use a JF to move materials from one hi-sec system to another. Not after the first cyno fails, anyway. So what's your objection? Aren't JFs killed in the Forge dead enough for you?

You're living way way WAY back in the past. Best you get to grips with the present rather than discussing the future don't you think?

I wonder how many of the issues with nullsec industry will be fixed by the hopefully inevitable POS fix?

No, small corps don't need JFs, thank you very much.

If you really think that the current situation where the best way to intercept supply routes is suicide ganking is ideal, there's really no point discussing this with you.

He doesn't. He's just saying that the only way to make supply interception a more common occurrence is to break the lock highsec has on industry. Ether that, or make it far easier to kill people in highsecGǪ

"Or"?

Ok, fine. "and". I'm talking about a minimalist approach. More than the absolute minimum would obviously yield better results.

If you really think that the current situation where the best way to intercept supply routes is suicide ganking is ideal, there's really no point discussing this with you.

SLOPS is a corp of 4. We need a JF, because nothing else can supply us in the quantity we need.

@baltec
good, do that if you like freighter logistics, but THEN you will have to deal with freigher runs. More PvP opportunity right there.

The problem NOW is that you get your cake and can eat it too. It doesnt really matter what you do, there is no drawback anymore.

What's so dreadful about suicide ganking?

Let me just point out that freighter convoys are :effort: for the likes of us and down right impossible for small alliances located in space behind ours. How exactly does one supply Venal with us in the way?

Ever thought about that maybe, just maybe, its not a good game mechanic that you can do what you do with "only 4 ppl"?

Now, i'm taking a risk here (as i don't have insight in what you do with these 4 ppl, but i'm guessing its not bringing in pvp-cruisers?)

No seriously though, Hi-sec has approximately 30 times as many build slots as sov null. 0.0 absolutely relies on importing goods from hi-sec because there simply isn't the industrial capacity to produce the ships and modules required.

And that's on top of the gigantic non-ISK subsidies that hi sec manufacturing gets, meaning that even if 0.0 did have the slots, which it doesn't, then it will still be far cheaper and more efficient to build in hi-sec than in 0.0

At the moment manufacturers are "FORCED" into hi-sec. Rest assured that your noble CSM representatives are currently working with CCP on how to make 0.0 manufacturing a viable option.

It worked before, it would work now. PPL adapt.

You have to go to hisec to participate in it

The fact that majority of JF kills happen in hisec only proves that JFs are nearly invulnerable in low and null. Of course the real solution is to improve nullsec industry, but making dishonest claims that current supply routes aren't too safe doesn't advance the discussion.

Judging by this, Malcanis supports the idea of removal of easy jump freight provided that outposts are balanced to having the same or greater capacity as highsec.

That actually sounds like a fair balance - remove jump bridges, bridging and jump freighters, much like in highsec, and give them the industrial output of highsec. Plus you get the rarer ores and the T2 moon materials - I'm not seeing a big problem.

We used to supply ourselves with carriers before. Your idea will cripple all small alliances.