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Tripoli
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Posted - 2005.12.10 16:43:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Aquilles Caley I read it somewhere that training for level 5 in Learning skill, only pays off like a year after. If so, why not leave it for the last on the list?
Because there comes a point when it's more time efficient to train for that extra 2% (which improves all attributes) than it is to train for an extra 5% (which affects only one attribute). ---
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Mortelli
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Posted - 2005.12.14 06:21:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Tripoli
Three scenerios of interest would be for a set of +1 (for new players), a set of +3 (most players), and a set of +5 (for the rich who want to catch up fast, since this analysis requires much more training time assume that +3 will be plugged at the appropriate time to put in the +3, so we are only interested here in when it's optimal to train enough to upgrade to +5).
Well, the answer for using +3 implants is easy. Don't train any learning skills first. You only need Cybernetics level 1 to use a +3 implant and that only requires Science level 3. Adding three points to all of your attributes in your first 12 hours of training is well worst putting the learning skills on hold for.
Are we talking about how to train if a "new player" has millions of isk? Unless I'm missing something, I can't even find +1s on the market at a reasonable price. So I'm assuming that for true new players, we should focus on the lower tier attributes first. Then move on to relevant skills and earn some isk. And then from there, get the higher attribute training or implants.
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padraig animal
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Posted - 2005.12.14 12:32:00 -
[33]
thanks man helps alot
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Brannik Taal
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Posted - 2005.12.15 15:38:00 -
[34]
Of course, training learning is more like a 3% increase, rather than 2% per level.
Because it bumps ALL your attributes up by 2%. And for each skill, 2 attributes are involved, one contributes half the learning the other does. So it's a 2% boost to the learning points from your primary attribute, and a 1% boost to points from the secondary attribute. And it has this effect on ALL skills, not just a limited subset.
For a measly 5 days, compared to over 16 days for level V advanced learning skill, that's well worth the effort.
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Tripoli
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Posted - 2005.12.18 22:48:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Brannik Taal Of course, training learning is more like a 3% increase, rather than 2% per level.
Because it bumps ALL your attributes up by 2%. And for each skill, 2 attributes are involved, one contributes half the learning the other does. So it's a 2% boost to the learning points from your primary attribute, and a 1% boost to points from the secondary attribute. And it has this effect on ALL skills, not just a limited subset.
Off the top of my head, I wasn't sure if you were right or wrong about this one. My math on this one was a bit sketchy, but I believe you have the general idea pretty much right, just your numbers were off a bit.
One level of the "Learning" skill actually increases your training speed by 1.85%. One level of one of the attribute-specific skills, when divided by 5, actually only works out a 1.1% training speed increase.
While this does not change the most effective order to train learning skills in, it does show that the Learning skill itself holds more weight than some people might think. ---
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NoNamium
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Posted - 2005.12.22 10:59:00 -
[36]
If you are powerleveling a new account and are able to afford implants you should use the following tree:
Originally by: Tripoli Edited by: Tripoli on 03/11/2005 04:51:03
Instant Recall 1 Analytical Mind 1 Learning 1 Instant Recall 2 Analytical Mind 2 Learning 2 Instant Recall 3 Analytical Mind 3 *Science lvl 1 *Science lvl 2 *Science lvl 3 *Cybernetics lvl 1 ** Insert Basic Memory Augmentation, Insert Basic Cybernetic Implant Learning 3 Instant Recall 4 Analytical Mind 4 Learning 4 Instant Recall 5 Eidetic Memory 1 Eidetic Memory 2 Eidetic Memory 3 Eidetic Memory 4 Analytical Mind 5 Logic 1 Logic 2 Logic 3 Logic 4 Learning 5 Spatial Awareness 1 Spatial Awareness 2 Spatial Awareness 3 Spatial Awareness 4 Spatial Awareness 5 Iron Will 1 Iron Will 2 Iron Will 3 Iron Will 4 Iron Will 5 Empathy 1 Empathy 2 Empathy 3 Empathy 4 Empathy 5 ** Insert Basic Ocular Filter, Insert Basic Neural Boost, Insert Basic Social Adaptation Implant Focus 1 Clarity 1 Presence 1 Focus 2 Clarity 2 Presence 2 Focus 3 Clarity 3 Presence 3 Focus 4 Clarity 4 Presence 4
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WAYNE MIA
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Posted - 2005.12.22 19:10:00 -
[37]
That is a nice set to follow going with implant.
For new players, some don`t training the learning skills telling is a waste of time, i read that in local from a system not long ago. At first you may not see a big change when you start training a skills, from any rank, but when they reach lvl 4 or 5, you will be happy to have from minutes to almost an hour taken off a skills and maybe more with the implants. But implants are very costly. when i started to play i didn`t know about those skills, when i learn about them i started right away to train them, since i had alot of skills i different level, i saw the difference in therm of time i was saving from each skills.
In then end to tell you, new players, even if it is said before me, do train the learning skills, learning included, it will save time and get you much better.
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chicos tar
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Posted - 2005.12.22 19:35:00 -
[38]
Sorry - noob question. As i level up learning skills, is the base attribute value that is is applicable to increase by 1 for each level gained?
Thanks for the help.
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Frostan Silvar
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Posted - 2005.12.22 21:36:00 -
[39]
(Also n00b here) Training into the fighter profession since one of my friends is a miner and i can protect him from pirates while he outfits his mining ship with full mining lasers/probes. Was wondering if i should train some of my more basic gunnery/navigation skills to level 3 or 4 1st and then move on to the Learning skills or should I start training the Learning skills right away??? I may just go with your basic guide and not change it around because it seems you made it so as to learn all proffessions quickly? If so that would be nice in case i ever became bored of being a fighter pilot (pfft ya right) and wanted to perhaps switch to trade/miner/manager etc. etc. but if any1 wants to take the time to make the most optimal list of learning skills to train for fighter and miner would help me and my buddy out a lot. (also many of the other n00bs i've meet in my 2 days of playing the game seem to be based around wanting to either be miners/fighters/traders so optimal guides for all 3 would be nice for the "majority" professions as i would call them)
I am an Asteroid. I am a drifter and apathetic. http://quiz.ravenblack.net/videogame.pl |
Actreal Nemandi
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Posted - 2005.12.23 01:24:00 -
[40]
Originally by: chicos tar Sorry - noob question. As i level up learning skills, is the base attribute value that is is applicable to increase by 1 for each level gained?
Thanks for the help.
I'm fairly noob too, but I can answer this one.
You are correct, all Learning skills increase an attribute by 1 for each level except "Learning" itself which applies a 2% modifier to the Attributes for each level.
I found this guide very helpful for skilling up my own character, but the list of skills does not take into account that "real" new characters (with no ISK) will have to learn other skills mixed in with the Learning skills.
In that case, noobs (like me) should consider taking the relevant Learning skill to level 1 or 2 before training up Gunnery or Spaceship Command (in this case Spatial Awareness) rather than slavishly following Tripoli's (otherwise excellent) list. Level 1 or 2 in any Basic Learning skill pays itself off in hours, if not minutes.
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Xasz
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Posted - 2005.12.23 04:00:00 -
[41]
Great guide, all of your guides are excellent. Keep up the good work!
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WAYNE MIA
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Posted - 2005.12.23 15:40:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Frostan Silvar (Also n00b here) Training into the fighter profession since one of my friends is a miner and i can protect him from pirates while he outfits his mining ship with full mining lasers/probes. Was wondering if i should train some of my more basic gunnery/navigation skills to level 3 or 4 1st and then move on to the Learning skills or should I start training the Learning skills right away??? I may just go with your basic guide and not change it around because it seems you made it so as to learn all proffessions quickly? If so that would be nice in case i ever became bored of being a fighter pilot (pfft ya right) and wanted to perhaps switch to trade/miner/manager etc. etc. but if any1 wants to take the time to make the most optimal list of learning skills to train for fighter and miner would help me and my buddy out a lot. (also many of the other n00bs i've meet in my 2 days of playing the game seem to be based around wanting to either be miners/fighters/traders so optimal guides for all 3 would be nice for the "majority" professions as i would call them)
Hi Frostan,
You are thinking on the right track but you can`t forgo the other training skills because if you look at each skills, you will see the primary and the secondary learning skills that will affect the skill you wanna learn and its the same for the miner or fighter or trader, even if you want to concentrate on one profession, follow the learning curve explained earlier. I learn the way by always looking at the info off the skill i wanna get and see what attribute affect it. And with this you will see that you have to take all the learning skills, but like i am doing with my 2 accounts, i learn a level on each learning skills and see what i wanna learn on the other skills, usually i go up to lvl 2, because from some minutes to almost 2 hours max you can start using better equipment.
Anyway, need any help, find me when i am in-game and i will help you out.
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Frostan Silvar
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Posted - 2005.12.23 23:52:00 -
[43]
ah ok i think i understand what you're saying so one skill affects the abilities' training time primarily and the secondary skill would, by my guess, most logically help train the skill around half as much as the primary? Anyway I'm having a hard time balancing out whether i should get my Learning skills up asap or if it's better to get some of my profession skills to level 4 at least and then switch to learning... the guide here is helpful just seems hard for a new person to be able to figure how to balance learning with their main skills. Most of my skills including Learning are around Level 3 now though except Gunnery I started at Level 4 since I choose Fighter as my profession im guessing.
I am an Asteroid. I am a drifter and apathetic. http://quiz.ravenblack.net/videogame.pl |
Tripoli
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Posted - 2005.12.27 05:56:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Frostan Silvar so one skill affects the abilities' training time primarily and the secondary skill would, by my guess, most logically help train the skill around half as much as the primary?
Correct. The secondary attribute listed for a skill has exactly half the effect of the primary attribute. Originally by: Frostan Silvar Anyway I'm having a hard time balancing out whether i should get my Learning skills up asap or if it's better to get some of my profession skills to level 4 at least and then switch to learning...
This is totally up to you. The most efficient thing to do would be to go ahead and train learning skills, but the more entertaining option could be to continue training up other skills. ---
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Crobain Stalker
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Posted - 2005.12.27 10:54:00 -
[45]
In my "learning" category I can only see the skill "instant recall" to be trained... how do i train the others?
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Frostan Silvar
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Posted - 2005.12.27 12:59:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Frostan Silvar on 27/12/2005 13:00:35 ok, thanks trip, the 1st 3 on the list are at level 4 and i've decided to take some of my basic fighter skills, afterburner, engineering and social skills up a bit so i can start doing Agent Level II missions. After i can start doing those then i'll head off to work on that list again. Also train'd Spacial Awareness to level III early so some of my fighting abilities would increase a tad faster.
I am an Asteroid. I am a drifter and apathetic. http://quiz.ravenblack.net/videogame.pl |
Tripoli
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Posted - 2005.12.28 03:25:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Crobain Stalker In my "learning" category I can only see the skill "instant recall" to be trained... how do i train the others?
You will have to purchase the remaining 5 so-called basic learning skills off the market. They are listed under Skills & Accessories --> Skills --> Learning.
The 6 basic Learning skills cost 31,500 to 45,000 isk each and include Analytical Mind, Empathy, Instant Recall, Iron Will, Learning, and Spatial Awareness.
Once you have purchased the skills, you'll fly to the station where they are located and you'll find them sitting in your items hanger waiting for you. Right click on each one and select "Train Skill." This will add them to your skillsheet. You can change the skills you're working on without penalty, so when the window pops up that says "Switch Skill Training," just click OK. ---
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klok718
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Posted - 2005.12.29 07:37:00 -
[48]
this is just my 2 cents here but note to noobs: dont even worry about implants now. By the time you can afford them most of your skills will be trained up pretty well.
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Festh
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Posted - 2005.12.29 11:47:00 -
[49]
hey, a newbie here. ive only played a week and im wondering why wait 77 days or so to get a few good items on the ship? i mean you can easily buy and equip a punisher with an after burner, plating and recharger and such if you pick a few skills from mechanic, engi, frigate and such?
if this list of skills take 77 days, or so, to get, ill be flying a newbie ship for a very long time, because there is no skills on the list that will give me access to better ships?
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Harold Griffin
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Posted - 2005.12.29 16:33:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Festh hey, a newbie here. ive only played a week and im wondering why wait 77 days or so to get a few good items on the ship? i mean you can easily buy and equip a punisher with an after burner, plating and recharger and such if you pick a few skills from mechanic, engi, frigate and such?
if this list of skills take 77 days, or so, to get, ill be flying a newbie ship for a very long time, because there is no skills on the list that will give me access to better ships?
This list is purely meant as an optimal list to get to all the skills you want, and that you are unbiased to any attribute.
IE if you plan to use memory as much as perception, and you're going to learn all learning skills equally, then this is the optimal route. In fact, in that case, even if you stray for a while, it is ALWAYS optimal to even return to this path. So again, this is the optimal path if you do all things balanced.
If for example you plan (extreme case) that you'll never use Charisma as an attribute for any skill, then learning the charisma learning skills are wastefull. Same applies if you take it less stern. Say for instance that the skill path you've laid out is more a combat specialist: of the total amount of skillpoints your whole plan includes (say 3 million, it's small, but say if) And of that list, the primary attributes are: 50% perception 30% willpower 20% intelligence Of the secondary attributes: 40% willpower 30% intelligence 20% perception 10% memory
the way you rank each attribute now is thus: (50+20/2) perception: (30+40/2) willpower : (20+30/2) intelligence : 10/2 memory
Thus: 60:50:35:5
Now raising perception has slightly more priority over raising willpower, and it has a lot of priority over memory. So raising a memory skillpoint from level 3 -> 4 might only be profitable over a very very long time (since in your planning memory is very low priority.. maybe only one skill. So raising memory learning just for that skill is kinda pointless), while perception is pretty fast payoff compared to the other attributes. This could mean that it might be best NOT to train in the order proposed in the first post of the thread, but to stop after a certain point (when your memory is sufficient. IE the payoff for the next point is too long) and go learn perception and then your normal skills.
Anyway, if you didn't follow all this. The first post is based on a hypothetical situation that probably doesn't apply to you personally and you do well to spend some time to think about your goals, because only then can you devise the best plan to get there. If you don't know what you want to do *at any given time* (so maybe you just started and don't know you want to become a fighter, or you just completed all the skills for your fighter character and are unsure if you want to specialize into another area) this is the optimal path. But even if you have a slightest idea what direction you want to go, chances are high this is *NOT* the optimal path.
So think of the first post as the 'skill safety line'. Learn in that order when you are lost for a while.
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MEPH1ST0
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Posted - 2006.01.02 13:20:00 -
[51]
Edited by: MEPH1ST0 on 02/01/2006 13:21:51 Hi all Thanks for this brilliant post, keep up the good work
Originally by: NoNamium If you are powerleveling a new account and are able to afford implants you should use the following tree:
Originally by: Tripoli Edited by: Tripoli on 03/11/2005 04:51:03
Instant Recall 1 Analytical Mind 1 Learning 1 Instant Recall 2 Analytical Mind 2 Learning 2 Instant Recall 3 Analytical Mind 3 *Science lvl 1 *Science lvl 2 *Science lvl 3 *Cybernetics lvl 1 ** Insert Basic Memory Augmentation, Insert Basic Cybernetic Implant Learning 3 Instant Recall 4 Analytical Mind 4 Learning 4 Instant Recall 5 Eidetic Memory 1 Eidetic Memory 2 Eidetic Memory 3 Eidetic Memory 4 Analytical Mind 5 Logic 1 Logic 2 Logic 3 Logic 4 Learning 5 Spatial Awareness 1 Spatial Awareness 2 Spatial Awareness 3 Spatial Awareness 4 Spatial Awareness 5 Iron Will 1 Iron Will 2 Iron Will 3 Iron Will 4 Iron Will 5 Empathy 1 Empathy 2 Empathy 3 Empathy 4 Empathy 5 ** Insert Basic Ocular Filter, Insert Basic Neural Boost, Insert Basic Social Adaptation Implant Focus 1 Clarity 1 Presence 1 Focus 2 Clarity 2 Presence 2 Focus 3 Clarity 3 Presence 3 Focus 4 Clarity 4 Presence 4
what about if you are using +3 implants from the start, does the list change? Its just that +3 implants only need cybernetics lvl 1 as well
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MEPH1ST0
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Posted - 2006.01.02 13:22:00 -
[52]
Its just that +3 implants only need cybernetics lvl 1 as well
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Halada
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Posted - 2006.01.02 14:50:00 -
[53]
Yes it helps a lot, and 60 days estimate for all of them is a little overkill... doing mem, then int, then learning to 5, the remaining 3 skills to normal lvl 5 takes only 3.5 days instead of 7 ...
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Kirill Vladik
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Posted - 2006.01.03 04:55:00 -
[54]
First I'm a noob, so that might explain it, but where are people finding these skills to train in? I'm looking in my Character sheet and I don't see any of the things listed below. Under the skills tab I just see the basics like Mining & Industry. Where do I need to be looking?
Instant Recall I Analytical Mind I Learning I Instant Recall II Analytical Mind II Learning II Instant Recall III Analytical Mind III Learning III Instant Recall IV Analytical Mind IV Learning IV Instant Recall V Eidetic Memory I Eidetic Memory II Eidetic Memory III Eidetic Memory IV Analytical Mind V Logic I Logic II Logic III Logic IV Learning V Iron Will I Iron Will II Iron Will III Iron Will IV Iron Will V Spatial Awareness I Spatial Awareness II Spatial Awareness III Spatial Awareness IV Spatial Awareness V Empathy I Empathy II Empathy III Empathy IV Focus I Focus II Focus III Focus IV Clarity I Clarity II Clarity III Clarity IV
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Tripoli
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Posted - 2006.01.03 05:51:00 -
[55]
Most skills (including all of the learning skills) are available for purcahse off of the market. Most empire regions will have all the skills you need up for sale. ---
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Lizan
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Posted - 2006.01.04 14:12:00 -
[56]
I'm planning on powerleveling a new account to advanced learning 4s using +3 implant set and following the given list(thanks for it btw), I was just wondering how much do the implants actually affect training the whole list? The estimate was 60 days for all without .. so? Thanks if you can answer =o
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Heavydude
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Posted - 2006.01.04 18:33:00 -
[57]
All very helpful ta
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Tripoli
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Posted - 2006.01.05 02:18:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Lizan I'm planning on powerleveling a new account to advanced learning 4s using +3 implant set and following the given list(thanks for it btw), I was just wondering how much do the implants actually affect training the whole list? The estimate was 60 days for all without .. so? Thanks if you can answer =o
Adding a full set of +3 implants could knock a significant amount of time off this training. As much as 17 days. ---
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Lizan
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Posted - 2006.01.05 14:28:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Tripoli
Originally by: Lizan I'm planning on powerleveling a new account to advanced learning 4s using +3 implant set and following the given list(thanks for it btw), I was just wondering how much do the implants actually affect training the whole list? The estimate was 60 days for all without .. so? Thanks if you can answer =o
Adding a full set of +3 implants could knock a significant amount of time off this training. As much as 17 days.
Oooo that's better than I expected! Thanks for all this helpful info =]
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bumbblebee
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Posted - 2006.01.10 04:17:00 -
[60]
hi,guys is it worth the timeto train specialization skills in say like cruise missiles or any given turret ? thanks
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