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Juwi Kotch
Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
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Posted - 2006.08.18 08:27:00 -
[181]
That would be nearly 20,000 minutes or a bit less then 14 days for +3 implants, a significant lower number then the 17 days you mentioned earlier...
Juwi Kotch
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Flein
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2006.08.18 11:00:00 -
[182]
So, it'll take me 60 days to max out all, and I mean all! attribute skills? perception, willpower, intelligence and so on? Me=EVE noob, started 2 days ago ;)
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Tripoli
XenTech
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Posted - 2006.08.19 04:06:00 -
[183]
Originally by: Juwi Kotch That would be nearly 20,000 minutes or a bit less then 14 days for +3 implants, a significant lower number then the 17 days you mentioned earlier...
Juwi Kotch
Keep in mind that my 17-day figure was calculated using fewer assumptions. The numbers I just gave you were based on several assumptions that can greatly change the time it takes to actually train these skills. I was merely doing some rough math to demonstrate how it is indeed a diminishing return for each point you add. I could figure it all exactly, but it's a real pain because you have to account for each attribute growing (and hence training speed increasing) every time you finish a skill, not to mention the fact that these calculatins vary (a lot) with an individual character's Memory and Intelligence. ---
289 of 315 skills trained. |
Tripoli
XenTech
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Posted - 2006.08.19 04:10:00 -
[184]
Originally by: Flein So, it'll take me 60 days to max out all, and I mean all! attribute skills? perception, willpower, intelligence and so on? Me=EVE noob, started 2 days ago ;)
Welcome to EVE. Don't get too obsessed with the Learning skills, but do keep them in mind, as they can be a big help if you plan on playing for a while.
60 days is the approximate time it takes the average player to train all six "basic" learning skills to level 5 and all five "advanced" learning skills to level 4. Adding the 5th level of all 5 advanced skills adds another 65 days or so. Most people don't do that last level because it can takes years to pay off. ---
289 of 315 skills trained. |
Juwi Kotch
Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
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Posted - 2006.08.19 08:48:00 -
[185]
Originally by: Tripoli
Originally by: Juwi Kotch That would be nearly 20,000 minutes or a bit less then 14 days for +3 implants, a significant lower number then the 17 days you mentioned earlier...
Juwi Kotch
Keep in mind that my 17-day figure was calculated using fewer assumptions. The numbers I just gave you were based on several assumptions that can greatly change the time it takes to actually train these skills. I was merely doing some rough math to demonstrate how it is indeed a diminishing return for each point you add. I could figure it all exactly, but it's a real pain because you have to account for each attribute growing (and hence training speed increasing) every time you finish a skill, not to mention the fact that these calculatins vary (a lot) with an individual character's Memory and Intelligence.
Ok, thank you, that clears it up. However, the diminishing factor seems to be not that steep as I expected it to be. Given that your numbers are roughly correct, the savings would be:
+1 -> a bit less then 5 days +2 -> a bit more then 10 days +3 -> a bit less then 14 days +4 -> a bit more then 17 days
Juwi Kotch
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RacknarFist
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Posted - 2006.08.21 17:37:00 -
[186]
Being a new player (8 days old) it would seem to me that this guide is geared to an alt that wants to be power leveled, not necessarily for a new player starting the game.
A new player can not be expected to sit around for the first 60 days of the game tooling around in the starter ship and waiting for learning skills to train up.
The strategy that I am following right now was to have a goal to get all the learning skills to level 3 - a reasonable time committment, but not too hard, in addition to learning a variety of other skills in terms of engineering, frigate, gunnery, missiles etc. This allowed me to play the game and develop the character while waiting for skills to come up.
I would suggest training your shortest skills first while you are actually playing the game and when you go afk switch to the learning skills, which should be level 3 or 4 (taking 6+ hours to train) and let them run over night. This will let the new guy get a couple basic weapon skills down, in addition to getting learning skills done, without a severe handicap imo.
It is important to mantain practicality of your character even if it doesnt learn at the optimal rate of sp/tick. What good is a character that can learn fast(er) if it a) can't do anything with it and b) have to wait 2 months to start training any practical skills.
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Tripoli
XenTech
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Posted - 2006.08.26 02:27:00 -
[187]
I have stressed many times not to worry about grinding these learning skills if you don't want to, but perhaps I haven't stressed that enough in this thread. Please, please don't let the learning skills turn you away from EVE, especially in the first couple months of play. ---
290 of 315 skills trained. |
Mr Fledermaus
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Posted - 2006.08.31 22:15:00 -
[188]
Omg.... so much to train.
Much thanks from a rookie, i appreciate informations like this.
Yours
Mr Fledermaus
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Cylandria
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2006.08.31 23:44:00 -
[189]
Thanks for your great guide. Really helpful. This is the most indepth MMORPG Ive played yet.
LOVE IT!
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Cylandria
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2006.08.31 23:48:00 -
[190]
Originally by: RacknarFist Being a new player (8 days old) it would seem to me that this guide is geared to an alt that wants to be power leveled, not necessarily for a new player starting the game.
A new player can not be expected to sit around for the first 60 days of the game tooling around in the starter ship and waiting for learning skills to train up.
The strategy that I am following right now was to have a goal to get all the learning skills to level 3 - a reasonable time committment, but not too hard, in addition to learning a variety of other skills in terms of engineering, frigate, gunnery, missiles etc. This allowed me to play the game and develop the character while waiting for skills to come up.
I would suggest training your shortest skills first while you are actually playing the game and when you go afk switch to the learning skills, which should be level 3 or 4 (taking 6+ hours to train) and let them run over night. This will let the new guy get a couple basic weapon skills down, in addition to getting learning skills done, without a severe handicap imo.
It is important to mantain practicality of your character even if it doesnt learn at the optimal rate of sp/tick. What good is a character that can learn fast(er) if it a) can't do anything with it and b) have to wait 2 months to start training any practical skills.
I was going along this line also. I am trainng basic skills to 2 during play then doing the learning skills while im offline. Im also lucky that I am able to use the client at work and change skills as time permits.
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Tripoli
XenTech
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Posted - 2006.09.01 00:48:00 -
[191]
Originally by: Cylandria Im also lucky that I am able to use the client at work and change skills as time permits.
God, that must me nice. My work computer has a pretty decent Radeon and dual monitors, but I would be hanged if they caught me installing EVE on it. ---
291 of 315 skills trained. |
Rhinos
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Posted - 2006.09.03 07:31:00 -
[192]
ill keep this short, i tryed to servive in 0.0 with my learning skills not being top on the learning tree. i can fly a battleship and its become not fun.... im now after months of doing this have reailized how important learning skills are. it takes me almost 10 days more to learn a lvl 5 skill then my friend who spent the time getting his to 5 basic and 4 advance... i deeply agree that while you should have fun, you also need to find the time to do the learning skill tree.... but then again by skill points after almost a year of playing EvE im a noob =)....
play hard cuz theres always a freak waiting to podkill you out there....
i did not know the dignaity of there birth but i saw the glory of there death, Rhinos
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Tripoli
XenTech
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Posted - 2006.09.03 15:29:00 -
[193]
I always recommend mixing learning skills into your schedule. One thing a lot of people do is train learning skills overnight, and others during the day. ---
291 of 315 skills trained. |
Areconus
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Posted - 2006.09.05 02:58:00 -
[194]
Heyy tripoli seen me recently haven't you?
Well anyways wouldn't it be faster to train all of the memory skills up first, even before the other learning skills to lvl 1 because for example if my starting memory is 5, then i train to adv lvl 4, thats 14, so im training learning skills close to 3 times as fast(dont know exact formula), then those lvl 1 skills take 10mins instead of 30, and lvl 2's take 50mins instead of 1 hr and a half and etc up the list so you would get all of your adv skills to 4 faster than if you trained instant recall to 1, then all the others to lvl 1, then 2, then 3 and so on...
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Tripoli
XenTech
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Posted - 2006.09.06 00:27:00 -
[195]
Originally by: Areconus Heyy tripoli seen me recently haven't you?
Well anyways wouldn't it be faster to train all of the memory skills up first, even before the other learning skills to lvl 1 because for example if my starting memory is 5, then i train to adv lvl 4, thats 14, so im training learning skills close to 3 times as fast(dont know exact formula), then those lvl 1 skills take 10mins instead of 30, and lvl 2's take 50mins instead of 1 hr and a half and etc up the list so you would get all of your adv skills to 4 faster than if you trained instant recall to 1, then all the others to lvl 1, then 2, then 3 and so on...
No, you are better served by training up memory and intelligence together because of how long each next level takes to train compared to how much benefit it provides. ---
291 of 315 skills trained. |
Galldar
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Posted - 2006.09.08 18:13:00 -
[196]
At what point do you get the bonus attribute points? 21? 22?
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Areconus
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Posted - 2006.09.09 20:12:00 -
[197]
Originally by: Galldar At what point do you get the bonus attribute points? 21? 22?
You mean from the learning skill? Well at lvl 5 learning, you would get an xtra 1 pt at 10, and 2 at 20....so it depends...
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Frank Draconian
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Posted - 2006.09.10 05:31:00 -
[198]
Edited by: Frank Draconian on 10/09/2006 05:33:37
Originally by: RacknarFist Being a new player (8 days old) it would seem to me that this guide is geared to an alt that wants to be power leveled, not necessarily for a new player starting the game.
A new player can not be expected to sit around for the first 60 days of the game tooling around in the starter ship and waiting for learning skills to train up.
The strategy that I am following right now was to have a goal to get all the learning skills to level 3 - a reasonable time committment, but not too hard, in addition to learning a variety of other skills in terms of engineering, frigate, gunnery, missiles etc. This allowed me to play the game and develop the character while waiting for skills to come up.
I would suggest training your shortest skills first while you are actually playing the game and when you go afk switch to the learning skills, which should be level 3 or 4 (taking 6+ hours to train) and let them run over night. This will let the new guy get a couple basic weapon skills down, in addition to getting learning skills done, without a severe handicap imo.
It is important to mantain practicality of your character even if it doesnt learn at the optimal rate of sp/tick. What good is a character that can learn fast(er) if it a) can't do anything with it and b) have to wait 2 months to start training any practical skills.
I agree this is the best advice for very new players. But it doesn't take long before you start running into skills that take days to train. At that point, its time to consider training up those advanced learning skills. The trouble is wanting to step up to the next ship wile waiting. What I'm doing now ( training up instant recall to 5 with more than 6 days to go), is just afk mining with an indy. I still make some money, at a slower rate, but I barely have to be at the computer. Plus, by not playing through missions or taking up other ventures, Im less tempted to delay the learning skills.
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Frank Draconian
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Posted - 2006.09.10 06:10:00 -
[199]
another practical note for new players ( not alts) about implants, they do make a noticeable difference in training times, since they essentially do what the learning skills do, but instantly. +1 implants come as mission rewards sometimes for storyline missions, and getting to a point where you can make 11-12 mill easily means you can buy +2 implants, which will speed up the process. I would suggest for new players, to get to a point where you can run lvl 2 missions without much trouble before taking your basic learnings to 5 and taking on those advanced learnings. It should only take a couple weeks to run lvl 2 missions succesfully, another week to run them easily.
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Edenfall
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2006.09.14 23:13:00 -
[200]
Very helpful guide; thanks a ton for putting this together!
~ E
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Jenial
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Posted - 2006.10.04 01:38:00 -
[201]
Originally by: klok718 this is just my 2 cents here but note to noobs: dont even worry about implants now. By the time you can afford them most of your skills will be trained up pretty well.
I dont agree at all within 3 weeks I have +2's and working on +3's. I think everyone should strive to get the Implants at the same time. Faster learning is faster learning. Not only that they also enable you to get some other skills and stagger the learning skills so that you can make more money to get better implants and better skills faster.
I really think that implants are a BIG key to this new player learning deal. I would recommend getting them as you go +1 then +2 etc... You will get some implants doing missions and make money to buy others.
I see doing the learnings all at once with out any implants as the stupidiest thing any player could do IMHO.
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Tripoli
XenTech
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Posted - 2006.10.04 04:48:00 -
[202]
Just remember, implants are destroyed if you get podded, so only buy what you can afford to lose. ---
293 of 315 skills trained. |
Astrixx
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Posted - 2006.10.06 07:54:00 -
[203]
OK, rather than browse through seven pages, I don't think a certain issue has been addressed here. That is, is there a GENERAL function that can take your desired skill you want to train, the level you want to train it, and output the optimal *ordered path* of skills needed to be trained based on what you have trained already? You've linked to the calcs in the original post, but it doesn't really make clear how you reached that optimal ordered path. I'm not sure if I'm making sense, hopefully someone understands me. I understand the math behind the skill training, I just don't understand how you take that math and create a sequential, optimal ordered list of training times.
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QwEEN AmiDaLa
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Posted - 2006.10.23 21:50:00 -
[204]
Edited by: QwEEN AmiDaLa on 23/10/2006 21:50:47 hi is there any way to boost a certain stat after you max out the skill ( for example perception--->clarity) besides expensive mods ans skill hardwiring, are the stats basically maxed out for the moment?
btw how do i get my avatar to show up on the left side?
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Tripoli
XenTech
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Posted - 2006.10.25 05:21:00 -
[205]
The only way to improve your attributes at the moment is with learning skills and/or implants. ---
294 of 315 skills trained. |
Seeker Ash
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2006.10.25 15:15:00 -
[206]
Re. "When does learning skills pay off", I think what has been mostly forgotten in these arguments is the fun factor. You play videogames only to have fun, right? Well it ought to be at least 80% of the reason. Obviously you can easily have more fun by training some immediately useful low level skills before going into training skills, as has been covered.
But let's assume you, like me, think skill progression is inherently funny. The "Ka-ching" feeling of completing a training, I'm sure, means something to all of us. That makes each level of each training skill pay off not when your income/produce/bad guy corpse generation breaks even, and not when your number of useful skill points reaches the number they would have reached had you neglected learning skills, but instantly, namely the moment you see how much the next skill you're about to train gets reduced.
And then it pays off again and again with every new skill you train.
With that, let me make a suggestion if you hesitate to learn Edietic memory et cetera to level 5: Do it, and take a vacation from the game while you do it. You get around 60 days (Less if you ignore charisma, and hey, why shouldn't you?) to go out and do something different: Build a house, read a book, play with marbles, whatever. As long as you don't forget to log in and resume training when it finishes.
Then when you return to the game you'll forever have shorter training times in every skill, maybe just a little but every little bit helps. _________________ "Even space ships pilots get the blues." |
Tripoli
XenTech
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Posted - 2006.10.27 03:57:00 -
[207]
Exactly the way I see it. ---
294 of 315 skills trained. |
EffBee Primus
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Posted - 2006.10.29 13:20:00 -
[208]
Hi all.
(Great thread by the way - I've read it all)
I am a complete new starter at this game and my character is only 18 days old. The main pleasure I get from games like this is figuring out how everything works and having lots of excel spreadsheets to manage everything.
I'm pottering around in a destroyer and am mining and doing missions as I see fit. I am not a power leveller and enjoy taking time to stop and smell the flowers.
When i set my character up I had no idea what I was doing and ended up with Basic stats: Caldari Achura I9 P10 C4 W9 M7 I have no idea what options I chose - they meant nothing to me really.
I only started training and buying implants seriously about 3-4 days ago when I had a serious read and think about the skills tree. I have already reduced the traing time for Mining (Rank I) IV to V from 12.5 Days to 8.25 Days.
One point I haven't seen made in this thread is the following: In my case, in the time taken to upgrade Mining from IV to V, I could upgrade nearly 6 Rank 1 skills from III to IV, 32 Rank 1 skills from II to III, 180 Rank 1 skills from I to II, and 840 Rank 1 skills from 0 to 1!
As a new player where everything is a bit mysterious it seems to me from a gameplay point of view that it is sensible to buy in and train to level 1 or 2 all skills which may be required very early on and play with the benefits from those skills. It sort of maps out your character's career plan with very, very little time overhead. Incidentally it took me nearly a whole day to read through the skills trees in the market - there is a lot there!
But I have questions whose answers have only been hinted at in the threads in this forum unless I missed it...
Learning is an oddball skill. Is it correct that its effects are not displayed very accurately in the attributes tab due to display rounding being set to integer rather than one or two decimal places. Does learning only work on base attributes. Does Learning work on Base attributes AND increases from other skills like "Instant Recall". Someone said that learning affects implant buffs too - please confirm.
Thanks in advance...
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Tripoli
XenTech
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Posted - 2006.10.29 15:44:00 -
[209]
The benefit from the Learning skill is calculated last. So to find your attribute, you take your base plus your other related learning skills plus any implant bonus, then multiply all that by your Learning bonus. ---
294 of 315 skills trained. |
Daemon Jax
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Posted - 2006.11.02 21:55:00 -
[210]
Great thread.
I found learning skills to be important, but don't let it get in the way of having fun. For just a couple of days worth of training, you can get good enough with a frigate to run most level 2 missions. You can do a lot in this game with a t1 frig, so don't think you need to move onto to larger ships yesterday -- and many of the support skills that are used to fly frigates like a champion are the same ones you need to fly larger ships well.
In addition, training a handful of rank 1 or 2 skills to level 3 before finishing your learning skills has a negligable effect on your overall training time. So you can play the game, have fun, and finish your learning skills.
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