don't get me wrong on the whole i think rise, fozzie, etc are all doing a great job on the rebalance but when it comes to non-combat focused ships they seem to have trouble making it work. the barge/exhumer thing didn't work (but it was the first set of ships they tried to rebalance so i won't hold that against them, especially since fozzie said he wants to go back to them at some point) and i don't really see this working out with regards to the large cargo capacity haulers. the amarr ship being better at lower skill levels than comparable ships just doesn't seem balanced to me.

You should be advocating for stacking penalty for CEs.

To me this seems reasonable, as long as it doesn't obligate people people to cross train for very basic needs.

For people focused on homoginization: The problem here is that we don't have a complex purpose that we are lazily fulfilling by having every ship do it the same way, what we have is a very simple purpose and far too many ships meant to fulfill it. I think the division between the 2 roles outlined here is functional, and adds a bit of depth to a relatively straight forward job, but what many of you are asking for is basically new jobs. As some have mentioned above, adding entirely new purposes to t1 industrials, or subdividing the current one adds a lot of complexity and doesn't even approach the issue of balance within the class we already have and use.

We talked about specialized bays and other unique purposes, but ultimately decided that, for now, it was important to make sure that pilots from races other than Gallente weren't compelled to cross train for an Iteron 5, and also that there was at least one reasonable alternative within your race depending on what purpose you had in mind. We want to improve on industry in general, but that is a much bigger proposition and I don't think t1 industrials is the right starting point.

edit: also, just to make sure it gets through: beware of power creep. think about what would be better for EVE: making hauling easier or harder. then balance accordingly.

This would be fitting in a freigther or orca balance, or even more in a JF balance.
But it's not that relevant for T1 industrials, since they're more oriented towards small and non-game changing operations.
Even if you add 50% cargo to T1 indus, serious hauling will still be done in orca/freighter/JF. And nerfing them would only make life harder for new players.
But I agree thinking like that is a good thing in general, and could come in handy for the balance of more powerful hauling ships.

Remember, this is a ship rebalance, not a global hauling balance process, though! I don't think Rise has the power to choose if hauling should be easier or harder. I believe the best line of action is to split the hauling balance away from the ship rebalance, have the ships be balanced around what is possible currently (current ittyV as a max cargo for example), then maybe have a reflexion about hauling as a whole later, outside of ship rebalance.

serious hauling will still be done in orca/freighter/JF.

Del Ity1 replace by Ity 2, Del Ity3 replace by Ity4 leave Ity 5: this makes 3 versions of the ship and probably the most used ones

The very fact that an industrial command ship is used as a hauler instead of high volume T1 or even T2 industrial ships is a big problem. I don't mind having Orca be a sort of "mobile base" that people are sometimes using it for, but it definitely shouldn't be a stepping stone between T1 industrials and freighters, especially since it has a completely separate skillset. To make a comparison, it would be as if people would be using battleships to mine more effectively than with Retrievers / Covetors.

DSTs are the natural choice for this role.

The very fact that an industrial command ship is used as a hauler instead of high volume T1 or even T2 industrial ships is a big problem. I don't mind having Orca be a sort of "mobile base" that people are sometimes using it for, but it definitely shouldn't be a stepping stone between T1 industrials and freighters GǪ

The iteron 5 loses some hp, but the new Iteron has around 50% more hp than the former Iteron 5.

T2 haulers of course will get rebalance as well, but likely not until after some more pressing T2 classes (let me get done with this so we can do HACs =)



As you say, its resist vs repair. In the case of Indies, it would have had to be: resist vs nothing because Caldari/Amarr have no ship. This would have been the only case in the whole game of one race having access to a role that wasn't balanced in some way for the other races with another ship.

Will keep listening about the Mammoth. There isn't an enormous amount of them being used so it felt like it wouldn't be too painful of a transition if it was better for visual direction. I'm less concerned about the continuity with the T2 model, but the differences in cost, and the forced transition for people who were using the Mammoth are real issues. Keep feedback coming and I'll poke around on my side some more.

i industrial per race i have to add

and beside that you make it very handy for the suicide gankers

they no longer have to scan every vessel

they only have to scan the specific type
so a lot of ppl will thank you for this useless patch

no offense buy they just posted on facebook