@rise
good to see the progress still kickin (even though it isnt on my marauder).

seriously tho, the hoarder is kewl, but you have to give it up for the mammoth.
even the name sounds bulky. mammoth and mastadon. t1 phat pig, t2 phat pig.

i think the ship looks like the old battlestar galactica. cant get too much better than that
unless we go to tie interceptors, colonial vipers, tie defenders and f-22 raptors.

but we're talking bulk, not fighters.

mammoth over hoarder... the horder is already the blockaide. its fast, nible and cloaky.
would be craziness to change it.

honestly, just remove all indies from the game and put in i set of Ore manufactured haulers.

And how often have they told us about training time and higher leveled skills or specialization ships being a huge amount of investment for a rather small increase?

We want to improve on industry in general, but that is a much bigger proposition and I don't think t1 industrials is the right starting point.

C: would probably be hated by a lot of players because of how much flavor and history it would remove from the game.

About the Mammoth: I just checked in with Art briefly and they confirmed that they simply don't like the way the Mammoth looks. I'll point them to this thread and see what they have to say about your feedback =)

Alright, after far too much time, I think we're as close as we're going to get to finished with these.

Before numbers, let me explain what we're going for here. Before Odyssey, the biggest decision related to tech 1 Industrialas was: how much time do you want to spend training (and how much battle badgering do you want to do), and based on the answer you chose one of 4 industrials. Not only did we eliminate that decision in Odyssey by making the prereqs for all Industrials only 1 level of the relevant skill, we also have 12 Industrials in the game, not 4. So what I'm hoping to accomplish here is provide some more depth to the choice of which Industrial is best for you!

The way we're accomplishing that is by setting up 2 distinct roles within each race's industrial line-up, and also making sure that from race to race you have comparable power (rather than just having Itty 5 be king ruler of industrials). One of these roles is focused purely on cargo capacity, sacrificing survivability and speed, and the other gives up cargo for substantially higher base hp and align time along with improved signature radius and base speed.

Unfortunately, while we had some neat ideas, we weren't able to agree on something fun to do with the extra indies that Minmatar and Gallente have without either creating substantial racial imbalance or needing major resources that we would rather commit somewhere else. For now, these ships will be balanced around the others, falling somewhere between the 2 roles described above. See second post in the thread for a more in-depth explanation related to these ships, as well as some other details about this class.

Below I will list the changes for the Industrials focused on speed and tank first, then pure cargo, and finally the leftover awkward bunch.

Let us know what you think!

About the Mammoth: I just checked in with Art briefly and they confirmed that they simply don't like the way the Mammoth looks. I'll point them to this thread and see what they have to say about your feedback =)

About the Mammoth: I just checked in with Art briefly and they confirmed that they simply don't like the way the Mammoth looks. I'll point them to this thread and see what they have to say about your feedback =)

About the Mammoth: I just checked in with Art briefly and they confirmed that they simply don't like the way the Mammoth looks. I'll point them to this thread and see what they have to say about your feedback =)

Please just get rid of racial haulers and give it to ORE. You didn't for mining ships, now please do it for the haulers and lets move on.

For people focused on homoginization: The problem here is that we don't have a complex purpose that we are lazily fulfilling by having every ship do it the same way, what we have is a very simple purpose and far too many ships meant to fulfill it. I think the division between the 2 roles outlined here is functional, and adds a bit of depth to a relatively straight forward job, but what many of you are asking for is basically new jobs. As some have mentioned above, adding entirely new purposes to t1 industrials, or subdividing the current one adds a lot of complexity and doesn't even approach the issue of balance within the class we already have and use.

We talked about specialized bays and other unique purposes, but ultimately decided that, for now, it was important to make sure that pilots from races other than Gallente weren't compelled to cross train for an Iteron 5, and also that there was at least one reasonable alternative within your race depending on what purpose you had in mind. We want to improve on industry in general, but that is a much bigger proposition and I don't think t1 industrials is the right starting point.

About the Mammoth: I just checked in with Art briefly and they confirmed that they simply don't like the way the Mammoth looks. I'll point them to this thread and see what they have to say about your feedback =)

Personaly I like idea of making superfluosu Mini and Gallente haulers specialised for specific cargo types, such as ice, minerals, gas, or allow them to provide specialised service such as fleet hangar or fitting. I would balance that by making general cargo ships for Matar and Gallente inferior to those of Caldary and Amarr. This way when one decides what industrial line to skill in to he would chose between access to specialised ships (Minmatar and Gallente line) or superior general cargo ships (Amarr and Caldari)

tl;dr of changes:
bestower is now a giant f u to the people who spent a month training for itty 5s.

haulers only do 1 thing: have cargo capacity.
there's just no reason to have so many of them.
honestly, just remove all indies from the game and put in i set of Ore manufactured haulers.
there should only be 3 of them, 1 holding 15k odd, decent tank, 1 holding 26k odd with ok tank, 1 holding 38k odd with bad tank.

Some of us like this option a lot - unfortunately it would mean doing the same for all t2 haulers and all t1/t2 freighters, which would be A: A giant commitment in terms of art asset creation, B: A waste of assets that already exist and C: would probably be hated by a lot of players because of how much flavor and history it would remove from the game.