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PvP is totally uncompetitive and unfair

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Paul Otichoda State War Academy Caldari State 2	Posted - 2013.06.28 22:40:00 - [1] - Quote basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants. Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink. Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you. THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS
Victoria Sin Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 336	Posted - 2013.06.28 22:42:00 - [2] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants. Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink. Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you. THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS Get into a T1 frigate with T1 fittings and join RvB (make sure you keep plenty of spares).
Unsuccessful At Everything The Troll Bridge 4797	Posted - 2013.06.28 22:42:00 - [3] - Quote Somebody losed a duel..... *Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?*
Paul Otichoda State War Academy Caldari State 2	Posted - 2013.06.28 22:44:00 - [4] - Quote Victoria Sin wrote: Paul Otichoda wrote: basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants. Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink. Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you. THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS Get into a T1 frigate with T1 fittings and join RvB (make sure you keep plenty of spares). why should I bother wasting my time on pvp when I can just go back to mining where I can actually make money and feeling like I'm doing something. In PvP I feel like nothing.
Jimmy Morane Aurora Novae Aetatis Expoit This Mf's 53	Posted - 2013.06.28 22:44:00 - [5] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: ...crying... THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS Yes there is; learn the game and STOP SHOUTING
Gallowmere Rorschach Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats 271	Posted - 2013.06.28 22:46:00 - [6] - Quote Here's an idea: check player histories before agreeing to duel. If someone is more than twice your age (assuming you are less than 6 months old), they will likely have a significant advantage over you, especially if they are trained in a specialized manner. PvP in Eve is just as much about preparation and picking your battles as it is about the pew itself.
Kijo Rikki Powder and Ball Alchemists Union The Predictables 409	Posted - 2013.06.28 22:47:00 - [7] - Quote This is a team game, get some friends and suddenly your noobness becomes useful in certain roles. It doesnt take long to train up a frigate and a point and then profit.
rey Aumer Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2013.06.28 22:48:00 - [8] - Quote Join FW. Plex to earn iskies until you have better skills.
Paul Otichoda State War Academy Caldari State 2	Posted - 2013.06.28 22:48:00 - [9] - Quote Gallowmere Rorschach wrote: Here's an idea: check player histories before agreeing to duel. If someone is more than twice your age (assuming you are less than 6 months old), they will likely have a significant advantage over you, especially if they are trained in a specialized manner. PvP in Eve is just as much about preparation and picking your battles as it is about the pew itself. yeah you've pretty much proved my point about pvp in this game. It only really matters about how old your character is. If your character is old is most likely able to use tech 2 weapons and then its game over
Victoria Sin Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 336	Posted - 2013.06.28 22:50:00 - [10] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: No I spend the night going round faction warfare systems trying to find a frigate to fight against and got instant killed in all cases. Then got gate camped and pod killed. You see why I'm not having fun You're doing it wrongGäó. Faction warfare systems? What kind of player do you expect to meet there, and what kind of ship, fitting and skill levels do you think they're going to be packing?
Peter Raptor THE AESIR. 522	Posted - 2013.06.28 22:52:00 - [11] - Quote Ive played over 3 years, and have never got a kill, but been killed plenty of times, I joined a corp, and soon contributed to about 9 kills, moral of the story, Eve is about team work, if you wanna solo pvp get a corp to teach you, so you still need a corp. Evelopedia;-á The Amarr Empire, is known for its omnipresent religion -áGÇá-á-á
Gallowmere Rorschach Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats 271	Posted - 2013.06.28 22:52:00 - [12] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: Gallowmere Rorschach wrote: Here's an idea: check player histories before agreeing to duel. If someone is more than twice your age (assuming you are less than 6 months old), they will likely have a significant advantage over you, especially if they are trained in a specialized manner. PvP in Eve is just as much about preparation and picking your battles as it is about the pew itself. yeah you've pretty much proved my point about pvp in this game. It only really matters about how old your character is. If your character is old is most likely able to use tech 2 weapons and then its game over Not really. I have killed many a T2 fitted frigate using a Merlin with T1 guns. It's all about knowing which ships you can take down, and what you need to be able to do in order to make this happen. Also, the current FotM involves light missile kiting frigates, and most of those that I have killed were using meta launchers, just because T2 launchers can be a pain to fit on small ships. Basically, if someone doesn't catch you before you get out of web/scram range, they're screwed, assuming they aren't faster than you.
Paul Otichoda State War Academy Caldari State 2	Posted - 2013.06.28 22:53:00 - [13] - Quote Victoria Sin wrote: Paul Otichoda wrote: No I spend the night going round faction warfare systems trying to find a frigate to fight against and got instant killed in all cases. Then got gate camped and pod killed. You see why I'm not having fun You're doing it wrongGäó. Faction warfare systems? What kind of player do you expect to meet there, and what kind of ship, fitting and skill levels do you think they're going to be packing? faction warfare is market as the way to get into PvP so I expect people with tech 1 stuff like mee yet the people I see in these systems are all veterens of atleast a year. There is no one in this game it seems who are actually flying basic ships. oh yess heres my eve kill page so you can see how bad I do: http://eve-kill.net/a=pilot_detail&plt_id=1675337&view=losses&m=6&y=2013 of course this does not include tonights attempts.
Six Six Six Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 142	Posted - 2013.06.28 22:57:00 - [14] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: Victoria Sin wrote: Paul Otichoda wrote: No I spend the night going round faction warfare systems trying to find a frigate to fight against and got instant killed in all cases. Then got gate camped and pod killed. You see why I'm not having fun You're doing it wrongGäó. Faction warfare systems? What kind of player do you expect to meet there, and what kind of ship, fitting and skill levels do you think they're going to be packing? faction warfare is market as the way to get into PvP so I expect people with tech 1 stuff like mee yet the people I see in these systems are all veterens of atleast a year. There is no one in this game it seems who are actually flying basic ships. It may have changed but I seem to remember when FW was first introduced that it was not aimed at new players.
Caldari Citizen 20120308 State War Academy Caldari State 27	Posted - 2013.06.28 22:58:00 - [15] - Quote Yes there are unfair advantages for older players flying frigates versus a new player with their frigate. But the training time isn't too bad. Within 1 month you should have, if you've narrowed your skill training to frigates and the mods associated with it, your skill books should be around lvl 4-5. No mmo that I know of has there been a new player going around pawning older characters.
Riot Girl Thundercats The Initiative. 1192	Posted - 2013.06.28 23:03:00 - [16] - Quote In my first month of playing EVE, I joined a high sec corp for training newbies. I killed a Vagabond, a Dominix and Navy Dominix amounting to a total of 700m isk in ships killed. I was so chuffed because I thought that was so much money (I was still flying T1 destroyers at the time) . I killed all those ships in high sec because the corp I joined was wardecced and that corp taught me a very important lesson in psychological warfare (Double Tap). I can't remember what this thread was about. Oh god.
RubyPorto SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 3565	Posted - 2013.06.28 23:04:00 - [17] - Quote Don't fly 1v1 against better prepared opponents. Grab some friends and be the better prepared opponent. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody. "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon
SmokinDank Horizon Research Group 5	Posted - 2013.06.28 23:05:00 - [18] - Quote So you fly a tiny ship into a warzone without working with others are you're surprised you died? Sounds like it's working the right way.
GreenSeed 526	Posted - 2013.06.28 23:06:00 - [19] - Quote pvp is fine for newbs, just stop being stupid and fit ewar instead of point. also i noticed you said "money sink" i guess you are one of those new players who think plex is some form of pay to win... it isn't. you would still lose ships to 8month old players who cared to learn how to play even if you were using a 100m SP character costing upwards of 3 thousand dollars.
Silvetica Dian Manson Family The Retirement Club 20	Posted - 2013.06.28 23:09:00 - [20] - Quote i have no T2 weapons or ships trained. i am 2013 player http://kb.eve-401k.com/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=1600685 admitedly none of this is solo 1v1 pvp but EvE is a MMO. You are supposed to play with friends. Also i suck at all aspects of PVP. i am trying to learn how to fit, i am trying to learn different ships capabilites and how to counter them, i am trying to learn manual piloting. Making friends with people that are good at these things and learning from what they say and from watching what they do is awesome. Last night i even timed some tackling runs well enough that i tackled something instead of my normal too soon they blapped me or too late they are gone. I think my point is this. Enjoying PVP as a low SP char is down to you not the game design. Winning at PvP is at least as much about player skills as it is about SP. If you are determined to play solo then u will lose a lot of ships before you start killing stuff http://flight-of-dragons.blogspot.co.uk/ this blog will show you the mindset and learning curve needed. It is one of many such blogs read it from the beginning. TL/DR . when you lose fights you can either learn and adapt or rush whining to the forums.
Victoria Sin Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 337	Posted - 2013.06.28 23:10:00 - [21] - Quote Well, I sympathise with the OP in a way, but I think something has raised his expectations about "fairness" in combat in Eve, so that is the real problem here. I think pretty much the only time I see really fair fights in this game is when I'm watching the alliance tournament.
Zappity Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 151	Posted - 2013.06.28 23:11:00 - [22] - Quote T1 frigates and faction warfare or RvB if you don't need the isk. At 3m SP I was at least one for one kill/loss. Skill, rather than just skill points, matters too. Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.")
Arduemont The Asteroid Solution 1569	Posted - 2013.06.28 23:11:00 - [23] - Quote I have created accounts and had them killing people on day one. PvP in Eve is complicated, and requires a large degree of knowledge and fine tuning. You can kill people with vastly inferior skills and ships, you just need to know how. The old rocket Merlin was the perfect example. Fit it with rockets, two webs, a medium shield extender and a afterburner and you could kite any normally close ranged ship so far out of their optimals that they couldn't hit you at all. People used Rifters and Tristans as the standard, but even with max skills and best kit on them, they would die to a T1 fit Merlin flown by a 1 day old character. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice."
Kitty Bear Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Tribal Band 721	Posted - 2013.06.28 23:12:00 - [24] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: Gallowmere Rorschach wrote: Here's an idea: check player histories before agreeing to duel. If someone is more than twice your age (assuming you are less than 6 months old), they will likely have a significant advantage over you, especially if they are trained in a specialized manner. PvP in Eve is just as much about preparation and picking your battles as it is about the pew itself. yeah you've pretty much proved my point about pvp in this game. It only really matters about how old your character is. If your character is old is most likely able to use tech 2 weapons and then its game over only to a point skills cap at 5 once you have a few trained to 5 as well you will have just reduced part of the advantage a more veteran player has a more veteran player if tightly focused on skill training, may have more options than you, and then again they may not they may have trained for 1 specific ship, with 1 specific fitting. and then stopped training that particular character in answer to the OP no pvp in eve is not fair, it is not particularly well balanced either if it was changed to be fair, or balanced. it would no longer be eve and then what would be the point playing anymore
Funky Lazers Shin-Ra Ltd 285	Posted - 2013.06.28 23:16:00 - [25] - Quote Peter Raptor wrote: moral of the story, Eve is about team work LOL. The moral of the story, get a bigger fleet so the other side gets no chances. In eve there is no fair pvp or people with skills, there is only one zerg ganking another fleet with less people in it. Whatever.
Kaarous Aldurald ROC Academy The ROC 333	Posted - 2013.06.28 23:28:00 - [26] - Quote Quote: No I spend the night going round faction warfare systems trying to find a frigate to fight against and got instant killed in all cases. Then got gate camped and pod killed. You see why I'm not having fun. There's your problem. This sentence sounds to me like you expected a fair fight, and got an unfair one. The problem is that your expectations are wrong. You need to change them. As long as you keep having expectations of getting something that you cannot feasibly get, you will be frustrated forever. That, or as someone else mentioned, join RvB. Plenty of good fights there. The next thing is, you need better education on what to do, how to do it, and what ship and mods to do it with. You can't just jump into an established PvP community and expect to kick all the buttocks with whatever you happened to have attached to your ship at the time. That would be utterly unacceptable to the people who have worked so hard and so long on their character skills, their fits, and their individual piloting abilities, if you could just roll in as a noob and take them out without effort. So, to compete, you need to make a similar effort to theirs. That's how the game is balanced, after all. It rewards effort, and everyone has the same opportunity as everyone else. It's what you do with it that matters. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Minmatar Citizen160812 The LGBT Last Supper 320	Posted - 2013.06.28 23:37:00 - [27] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants. Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink. Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you. THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS Well general D we tried to help him in new citizens Q&A but he's a failure of gaming...he's all yours.
Vrenth Black-Talon 12	Posted - 2013.06.28 23:43:00 - [28] - Quote The cool thing about multiplayer games, they are meant to be played with multiple people. Bring 5 new friends and I bet that 5 year old pilot doesn't do as well.
Onyx Nyx Euphoria Released Verge of Collapse 423	Posted - 2013.06.28 23:53:00 - [29] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants. Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink. Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you. THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSb7mlz7Hag I kill kittens, and puppies and bunnies. I maim toddlers and teens and then more.
Steve WingYip Lumodynamics Power Control Corp Panda Cave 1105	Posted - 2013.06.28 23:55:00 - [30] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants. Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink. Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you. THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS Don't solo then. It's an MMO, multiplayer, use other players and play together.
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 2941	Posted - 2013.06.28 23:56:00 - [31] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants. Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink. Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you. THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS Not this again. Look up a player named Harry Forever. He's making incursions into goon space with T1 frigates, getting kills, and having boatloads of lulz. Stop complaining and shoot.
Evelgrivion Calamitous-Intent 260	Posted - 2013.06.29 00:01:00 - [32] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants. Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink. Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you. THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS If you don't want EVE to be hard, EVE doesn't want you. This game isn't "honor-duels in space," it's "hit them when they're weak, flee when they're strong, harass them when the opportunity comes, catch them by surprise, and destroy them when you can" in space. If you want to feel powerful in New Eden, get friends, get a clue, or get another game.
Schmata Bastanold Keep It Burning Stupid 872	Posted - 2013.06.29 00:01:00 - [33] - Quote OP, your Eve experience would improve if you would stop posting whine threads and start listening to what people advice you to do. You are around for what, a month or two, and you still don't get it. It doesn't matter what you do - be that piracy, missions, FW, PI, incursions, high/low/null - if you don't learn you will always be that whiny kid everybody hates. Find a corp which does what you think you want to do now and stick with them for some time. You can always change corps, it is not like RL, you don't need to serve your notice period or anything. Just join some group and learn from them. If they suck learn why they suck and how you can exploit it, if they excell at something learn why they excell and how you can be like them. Learn 2 play, stop 2 whine. I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold
Disastro Wrecking Shots Black Legion. 84	Posted - 2013.06.29 00:13:00 - [34] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants. Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink. Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you. THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS Whine on the forums moar. It works.
Short Stack122 Noblesse Oblige. Cult of War 2	Posted - 2013.06.29 00:26:00 - [35] - Quote confirming that as a player with LESS than 2 months worth of skill i got on plenty of KillMails... i fitted an Atron with webs and points and just held guys down during pvp. had plenty of fun and learned quite a bit. TL;DR learn how to be effective at your SP level
ACE McFACE Radical Astronauts Plundering Eve 1374	Posted - 2013.06.29 00:35:00 - [36] - Quote Even if you lose you still were in PvP. Plus not all PvP has to be you solo roaming in FW space. You should be notified if someone quotes your post so you can continue the argument!
BoSau Hotim Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated 5788	Posted - 2013.06.29 00:37:00 - [37] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants. Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink. Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you. THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS I understand your frustration. But don't quit just yet You can have some good fun PvPing and quickly too. I think the first Key is GET HELP! Find a good pvp corp that is willing to help train you and especially LEARN HOW TO FIT :) Different PvP experiences get you different results: Hi-sec solo duel PvP - you have the choice of who you fight. You can scan their ship fits, look at their kb's and see how they fit and determine if you have a good shot at winning the fight possibly. FW, RvB would be good experiences if you have other players helping you along. Fighting with a fleet is awesome if you have a good FC. low sec/null sec can be pretty intimidating, but once again if you get in with players that can help you and teach you, then you can be successful at PvP quickly. It seems as if you are guaging all PvP from a very limited range of experience. Personally I learned to PvP solo in High sec from a couple of corp m8's who had experience. Then before I fought anyone I checked their kb's and looked at how they fit and how successful they were. I found many older pilots than myself having fail fit pvp boats and so I would take them on and win. Your logic says that I should not have been able to win since I was 1 to 2 years younger than them - but that wasn't the case. This then helped me become a better part of fleet operations for wardecs. I think my whole long post boils down to getting some m8's in game and learning from them and you may find that you can PvP with cheap ships and have some good PvP fun. I'm not a carebear... I'm a SPACE BARBIE!-á Now... where's Ken?
Dranchela Pixel Navigators 31	Posted - 2013.06.29 00:37:00 - [38] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants. Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink. Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you. THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS We must be playing a different game, you and I.
Ari Laveran L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 63	Posted - 2013.06.29 00:56:00 - [39] - Quote Confirming that PvP is hard, but not because of SP. I lost 17 frigates to the fires of low sec before I scored my first solo kill but I kept notes and chatted with the guys who blew me up afterwards most were friendly and happy to talk about how I screwed up or even share fits with me. I'm 4 months in and just now getting my head wrapped around eve combat to the point I'm not derping away every ship I take out (though I still do a fair bit of that too). Eve is Guerilla warfare and mind games more than raw dps and tank. Even the guy who pointed my Ishkur at 30k camping the Dodixie undock during a war dec resulting in a fiery explosion was willing to explain how that was possible and how I could have avoided it. Off topic: Docking bookmarks if you think you are going to dock there more than once take the time to make a set.
Daimon Kaiera Kraken. 363	Posted - 2013.06.29 01:01:00 - [40] - Quote Get gallente destroyer I and Weapon Upgrades I. Fit a 200 dps catalyst. Go find friends. Gank miners. .... . .-.. .--. / .. / .... .- ...- . / ..-. .- .-.. .-.. . -. / .- -. -.. / .. / -.-. .- -. -. --- - / --. . - / ..- .--. / ... - --- .--. - .... .. ... / ... .. --. -. .- - ..- .-. . / .. -.. . .- / .. ... / -. --- - / ... - --- .-.. . -. / ... - --- .--.
Seven Koskanaiken Clan Steel Wolves 224	Posted - 2013.06.29 01:06:00 - [41] - Quote Pvp is unfair. The way to win is to be the one doing the unfair, rather than having the unfair done to you.
Abon STAHLSTURM Test Alliance Please Ignore 145	Posted - 2013.06.29 01:11:00 - [42] - Quote Learning PVP takes a ton of time. Do not underestimate it and do not give up. Try out as much as you can until you find out what fits you. There will be a time when you notice your "shift" to the more experienced side. You will still die tho..just less.
BoSau Hotim Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated 5788	Posted - 2013.06.29 01:11:00 - [43] - Quote Daimon Kaiera wrote: Get gallente destroyer I and Weapon Upgrades I. Fit a 200 dps catalyst. Go find friends. Gank miners. yes..... true EvE fun :) I'm not a carebear... I'm a SPACE BARBIE!-á Now... where's Ken?
Sir Mack Inawrex NEW ORDER DEATH DEALERS CODE. 6	Posted - 2013.06.29 01:33:00 - [44] - Quote BoSau Hotim wrote: Daimon Kaiera wrote: Get gallente destroyer I and Weapon Upgrades I. Fit a 200 dps catalyst. Go find friends. Gank miners. yes..... true EvE fun :) This is actually the first thing I did in my EvE career. The high gunnery skills you quickly accrue are really handy for fitting PVP frigates, I've found.
Large Collidable Object morons. 2128	Posted - 2013.06.29 02:11:00 - [45] - Quote If you're in a fair fight in Eve, someone made a mistake. You know... morons.
Major Niall Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 14	Posted - 2013.06.29 02:15:00 - [46] - Quote OP, sounds like you're trying to solo pvp. Solo PvP can be notoriously skill intensive, because most of the other people who do it have high SP. PvP as a newbie can still be really fun though, you just gotta find a group to pvp with. A browse of the recruitment forums should come up with something that sounds interesting, alternatively hit me up ingame and I can point you towards an excellent training corp who takes even 1 day newbies and teaches them to be a positive part of a pvp gang and make isk.
Hogarth Starbanger Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.06.29 02:23:00 - [47] - Quote Seven Koskanaiken wrote: Pvp is unfair. The way to win is to be the one doing the unfair, rather than having the unfair done to you. Or until you have enough iskies not to care about fair.
Grimpak Midnight Elites United Federation of Commerce 957	Posted - 2013.06.29 02:50:00 - [48] - Quote Seven Koskanaiken wrote: Pvp is unfair. The way to win is to be the one doing the unfair, rather than having the unfair done to you. if it's a fair fight, somebody ****** up. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img] [quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Ace Uoweme Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 320	Posted - 2013.06.29 03:00:00 - [49] - Quote Silvetica Dian wrote: i have no T2 weapons or ships trained. i am 2013 player http://kb.eve-401k.com/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=1600685 admitedly none of this is solo 1v1 pvp but EvE is a MMO. You are supposed to play with friends. Also i suck at all aspects of PVP. i am trying to learn how to fit, i am trying to learn different ships capabilites and how to counter them, i am trying to learn manual piloting. Making friends with people that are good at these things and learning from what they say and from watching what they do is awesome. Last night i even timed some tackling runs well enough that i tackled something instead of my normal too soon they blapped me or too late they are gone. I think my point is this. Enjoying PVP as a low SP char is down to you not the game design. Winning at PvP is at least as much about player skills as it is about SP. If you are determined to play solo then u will lose a lot of ships before you start killing stuff http://flight-of-dragons.blogspot.co.uk/ this blog will show you the mindset and learning curve needed. It is one of many such blogs read it from the beginning. TL/DR . when you lose fights you can either learn and adapt or rush whining to the forums. What folks don't get is if you're not just an EvE player, the kill register system in this game is very unrewarding and unfinished. I just looked at one of your killmails, and yep you played in a group and the group got credit for the kills...everyone. But when you break down the statistics, you have a logi player with 0% of the only score that matters...DPS. EvE doesn't even break down role scores, yet there's only one score that matters (and what you'll be judged for). Logistics player = healer. Why would I want to be judged by 0% of DPS, and not say something like this? http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Throne_of_Thunder/hps/ Among my peer roles, by what I do? In a spreadsheet game the main fighting spreadsheet has less info than Recount does in WoW (we don't have killmails, we have realtime comprehensive stats broken down by roles ingame provided by addons, and everyone in a group/raid can see it). If I want to show a"killmail" out of game and across realms, I'll link a WoL link that breaks everything down to timelines of what spell was used even. This is another reason why I'm not very hot in playing PvP in EvE. The game doesn't have those comprehensive combat stats in real time (and this too is something CCP can improve on...and with a more robust API). "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
Lailoken Emrys Moira. Villore Accords 6	Posted - 2013.06.29 03:14:00 - [50] - Quote ""Hi, I -just- started playing and I'm sad that I can't kill everything in a 1v1, so the game is bad."
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3745	Posted - 2013.06.29 03:19:00 - [51] - Quote Ace Uoweme wrote: But when you break down the statistics, you have a logi player with 0% of the only score that matters...DPS. EvE doesn't even break down role scores, yet there's only one score that matters (and what you'll be judged for). Logistics player = healer. Why would I want to be judged by 0% of DPS, and not say something like this? Someone will hopefully remind you to go back to wow. Everyone fighting to help test keep those moons it sold to that guy: make sure to put a gun on your logistics. Every single highslot spent on getting on killmails helps, thanks. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over. TEST Defence, Please Ignore
Bob Blunts Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 31	Posted - 2013.06.29 03:21:00 - [52] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants. Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink. Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you. THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS I haven't bothered to read this thread, but I'm wondering if you could be any more wrong in this post if you tried. Join RvB or a good null alliance and lrn2herotackle. Whatever you do, stop lying to new players who arent as bitter and whiny as you. I have a 1.2 million SP alt in RvB that gets kills all the time.
Ace Uoweme Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 320	Posted - 2013.06.29 03:28:00 - [53] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: Ace Uoweme wrote: But when you break down the statistics, you have a logi player with 0% of the only score that matters...DPS. EvE doesn't even break down role scores, yet there's only one score that matters (and what you'll be judged for). Logistics player = healer. Why would I want to be judged by 0% of DPS, and not say something like this? Someone will hopefully remind you to go back to wow. Everyone fighting to help test keep those moons it sold to that guy: make sure to put a gun on your logistics. Every single highslot spent on getting on killmails helps, thanks. Why would I need to go back to WoW? When I can play both, and actually know what I'm talking about? If you don't play the game, you are clueless. Hey, but it's a Goon it's to be expected! "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3746	Posted - 2013.06.29 03:45:00 - [54] - Quote Bob Blunts wrote: I haven't bothered to read this thread, but I'm wondering if you could be any more wrong in this post if you tried. Join RvB or a good null alliance and lrn2herotackle. Whatever you do, stop lying to new players who arent as bitter and whiny as you. I have a 1.2 million SP alt in RvB that gets kills all the time. But are they ~solo~ kills, or are you a blobbing, off-grid boosting "cheater" There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over. TEST Defence, Please Ignore
Kaarous Aldurald ROC Academy The ROC 333	Posted - 2013.06.29 03:48:00 - [55] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: Bob Blunts wrote: I haven't bothered to read this thread, but I'm wondering if you could be any more wrong in this post if you tried. Join RvB or a good null alliance and lrn2herotackle. Whatever you do, stop lying to new players who arent as bitter and whiny as you. I have a 1.2 million SP alt in RvB that gets kills all the time. But are they ~solo~ kills, or are you a blobbing, off-grid boosting "cheater" Confirming that having friends and being organized is overpowered. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Jonah Gravenstein Caliban Logistics and Storage 9434	Posted - 2013.06.29 03:49:00 - [56] - Quote Large Collidable Object wrote: If you're in a fair fight in Eve, both sides made a mistake. FTFY In Eve you're a god, why have morals?
Mr Kidd Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 1231	Posted - 2013.06.29 04:11:00 - [57] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: No I spend the night going round faction warfare systems trying to find a frigate to fight against and got instant killed in all cases. Then got gate camped and pod killed. You see why I'm not having fun Well, there's your problem! Look Padawan, you can't go out on your own as a noob and pew....by yourself...unless you know exactly what you're doing which implies you're not a noob. But you can pew as a noob. You just have to do it with others filling noob rolls in a fleet. 1v1 doesn't exist in Eve cept for very experienced and knowledgeable pilots. There are so many pitfalls along the way, most of which you're already run into, even for those guys. Every fleet needs a tackle....and that's traditionally, a role that can be filled by noobs. If you want to brawl, yeah, you're gonna need mad skillz. HTFU!...for the children!
Surfin's PlunderBunny Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 13798	Posted - 2013.06.29 04:19:00 - [58] - Quote a¦á_a¦á "Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff-á Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?-á http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
rey Aumer Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2013.06.29 04:26:00 - [59] - Quote Honestly, in what MMO, or game at all, can you go in with a new character and expect to compete with high level characters?
Ace Uoweme Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 320	Posted - 2013.06.29 04:55:00 - [60] - Quote rey Aumer wrote: Honestly, in what MMO, or game at all, can you go in with a new character and expect to compete with high level characters? FPS games you can be a buck private newbie and wipe the battlefield. FPS games have gear normalization and it's about dexterity skills, not some shiny new gear or unlock that wins. PvP in MMOs just doesn't compare it's m-u-c-h slower (EvE is even slower than WoW). When I play BF3 I'm not right clicking for 15mins trying to down a ship, if I don't kill 3 at a time in less than 15 seconds, I'll be dead. When I was playing BF2142 I thought I'd never get that knifing badge (needed to kill 17 players within a match). Matches usually are 30mins or less, so that's less than 1 kill per minute...with a knife and the other guy with his rifle. First badge I got I podded and jumped down on a squad and killed them all in less than 15 seconds. To get the gold badge, it was only completed when I spent 3 days in knifing hell (even on a friendly fire 1024ms South African server!!!) trying to nab DICE Dogtags. Managed to get in the top 20 for the feat. And Granny did it. Pure skills, too. FPS = Right to Work. MMOs = Union shop. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
Doc Fury Furious Enterprises 2667	Posted - 2013.06.29 05:04:00 - [61] - Quote Sure thing. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 15298	Posted - 2013.06.29 05:08:00 - [62] - Quote See sig and the posts within about about the EVE skill system. In short: no. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.
Montevius Williams Eclipse Industrial Inc 540	Posted - 2013.06.29 05:20:00 - [63] - Quote Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: Somebody losed a duel..... Damn, man. Learn to spell lol Is losed even a word? . . . . . . . . . . Just looked it up and "Losed" used to be a word but it is now obsolete. "The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB
Ace Uoweme Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 320	Posted - 2013.06.29 05:40:00 - [64] - Quote Doc Fury wrote: Sure thing. The Real Thing Never get near a granny with a knife (or shotgun)! Meet ya on the Battlefield! "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
baltec1 Bat Country 7060	Posted - 2013.06.29 06:33:00 - [65] - Quote "This rifter cost me nothing, all the mods were looted from rats, I dont think my guns have ammo. I just tackled a dread for my fleet." Newbees. Effective from 30 minutes old and fearless warriors, never leave station without one.
Kaarous Aldurald ROC Academy The ROC 334	Posted - 2013.06.29 06:45:00 - [66] - Quote baltec1 wrote: "This rifter cost me nothing, all the mods were looted from rats, I dont think my guns have ammo. I just tackled a dread for my fleet." Newbees. Effective from 30 minutes old and fearless warriors, never leave station without one. Indeed. Ignorance of the danger you're in can be the ultimate courage. There are little forms of defense better than simply not giving a ****. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Leper ofBacon HELP GRANDMA SMASH HER LEGS IN 29	Posted - 2013.06.29 08:10:00 - [67] - Quote If you insist upon being so precious about pixelated internet spaceships and fair fights you will never enjoy the game. Big fish eat small fish. So go find some friends, form a massive swarm of enraged newbs and start throwing yourself recklessly at players with expensive gear.
Jonah Gravenstein Caliban Logistics and Storage 9436	Posted - 2013.06.29 09:03:00 - [68] - Quote Leper ofBacon wrote: form a massive swarm of enraged newbs and start throwing yourself recklessly at players with expensive gear. Goonswarm, the early days. In Eve you're a god, why have morals?
Apherolaz Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T 0	Posted - 2013.06.29 09:40:00 - [69] - Quote I've lost 100% of my solo PvP encounters. I've scored a few kills flying with corp mates, and that was almost enough to keep me around, but that means the only time i can actually have fun is when my corp mates are around - which is only a fraction of the time. I spend most of my time in plexes watching a timer count down - which is about as much fun as watching paint dry. I've unsubbed but i still have 1.5 months left. PvP does suck when you are new. It really sucks. What amuses me is when people point out how some random newbie managed to kill some random veteran using only a Tech 1 frigate, and therefore PvP is perfectly viable for all newbies. Truth is, it's not. Guys with more skill points and more ISK will crush you every time. That is perfectly understandable, and not entirely a fault with the game per se, but more so a by product of the game being as old as it is now. The majority of the player base are veterans and it is only fair that they should have no troubles popping newbies. If you insist on sticking around, you are going to have to accept the fact that all you are good for is padding the stats of better players - at least until you have 6 months of PvP skill training under your belt. Otherwise, play something else - there are loads of other great games on the market that provide a level playing field.
Ace Uoweme Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 321	Posted - 2013.06.29 09:48:00 - [70] - Quote Apherolaz wrote: PvP does suck when you are new. It really sucks. What amuses me is when people point out how some random newbie managed to kill some random veteran using only a Tech 1 frigate, and therefore PvP is perfectly viable for all newbies. Truth is, it's not. Look at the killmail, that newbie is tagging along with maybe 3% of the damage done. He may even luck up with a killing blow. But more chances than not -- because he doesn't have the defense skills, let alone advanced weapons skills -- he's but cannon fodder. The ones claiming it's easy, is like in WoW when a level 90 looks back on what he can destroy at level 90 (not at level and without the twink gear). Happens in all games, everything is simple and easy with experience. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
Zappity Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 154	Posted - 2013.06.29 10:10:00 - [71] - Quote Come on guys, it's not rocket science. Yes, it takes time to learn and not only skill points. But it isn't hard to have a blast with a young character. Zappity is only a few months old and she does fine in lowsec. Solo kills: http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19516218 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19516220 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19516221 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19516222 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19437588 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19430934 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19430553 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19396642 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19390416 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19377926 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19376737 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19374626 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19362860 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19354119 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19336334 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19328222 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19286329 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19286002 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19285754 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19285432 Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.")
Mara Pahrdi The Order of Anoyia 366	Posted - 2013.06.29 10:19:00 - [72] - Quote Ace Uoweme wrote: Happens in all games, everything is simple and easy with experience. That is the OP main problem ofc. That and his attitude. He got overall good advice in EVE New Citizens Q&A. Ofc you can play an mmo solo. But you have to accept the fact you're doing it hardcore. Do not come to the forums complaining it is unfair. CCP Ytterbium: You got it wrong people, you're not supposed to be happy! You're supposed to riot! Set things on fire with the flame wars! Start the threadnaught! Fire ze missiles! Rage! Let the anger consume you!
Seven Koskanaiken Clan Steel Wolves 229	Posted - 2013.06.29 10:22:00 - [73] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: Ace Uoweme wrote: But when you break down the statistics, you have a logi player with 0% of the only score that matters...DPS. EvE doesn't even break down role scores, yet there's only one score that matters (and what you'll be judged for). Logistics player = healer. Why would I want to be judged by 0% of DPS, and not say something like this? Someone will hopefully remind you to go back to wow. Everyone fighting to help test keep those moons it sold to that guy: make sure to put a gun on your logistics. Every single highslot spent on getting on killmails helps, thanks. No warrior I on the market. No logi for me today,
Miilla Hulkageddon Orphanage 567	Posted - 2013.06.29 10:24:00 - [74] - Quote Eve, a Harsh universe - Says so on the box. Fairness is relative to the largest side.
Blade Mosh Trax Osmerium 4	Posted - 2013.06.29 10:38:00 - [75] - Quote You have unrealistic expectations from your actions. Join a pvp corp and learn. Now where did that beer go?!
Rico Minali The Straw Men 1288	Posted - 2013.06.29 10:48:00 - [76] - Quote A few months ago a couple of friends and I made a brand new characters of various races, trained to use a warp disruptor an AB and basic T1 weaponry and went pvping in less than 24 hours. We won a surprising number of engagements, there were 4 or 5 of us, sometimes we solo'd or in pairs and sometimes all 5 of us. We had an enormous amount of fun for a couple of weeks, in fact some of the best fun Ive had in a long time. In fact I may just do it again. So basically, op doesn't have clue what he is talking about. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Jonah Gravenstein Caliban Logistics and Storage 9437	Posted - 2013.06.29 11:14:00 - [77] - Quote Rico Minali wrote: A few months ago a couple of friends and I made a brand new characters of various races, trained to use a warp disruptor an AB and basic T1 weaponry and went pvping in less than 24 hours. We won a surprising number of engagements, there were 4 or 5 of us, sometimes we solo'd or in pairs and sometimes all 5 of us. We had an enormous amount of fun for a couple of weeks, in fact some of the best fun Ive had in a long time. In fact I may just do it again. So basically, op doesn't have clue what he is talking about. There is a difference between your newb alts and the OP, that difference is experience, the ships are fine, the modules are fine and the skills available to a newbie are fine. Experience only comes with time and practice just as it does in real life, but yeah even the greenest of newbies can dive straight into PvP and get in on kills while they gain the experience. The best way to learn to PvP is to do it, preferably with friends. In Eve you're a god, why have morals?
Liafcipe9000 Smeghead Empire 6760	Posted - 2013.06.29 11:16:00 - [78] - Quote this thread is delicious. You may gain the knowledge, but you will lose your belief, with all its mystery and comfort. If there was proof, absolute and certain, there is an afterlife, why not quit this life, and be done with it? Ponder about these things all your life, and you're a philosopher. Compress these ponderings into a couple of pages, and you'll go mad.
Lipbite Express Hauler 694	Posted - 2013.06.29 11:22:00 - [79] - Quote 1) life isn't fair despite politically correct fairy tales - it's strange to expect coders could make a game better than life; 2) for slightly more fair starship PvP you may want to check Star Conflict - and even in that relatively simple game you'll be unfairly beaten (a lot) once you'll reach tier2.
Cannibal Kane Temple of Kane 1950	Posted - 2013.06.29 11:24:00 - [80] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants. Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink. Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you. THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS My corp of new players killing people in t1 frigates and t1 cruisers with t1 guns would like to prove you wrong on that. I even got older player that only ever knew missioning and mining joining corp. http://camp.killmail.org/ "I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. -áHe flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. -áHis hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. -áIt was truly majestic. -áAnd while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off.-áBecause I am like that." --áNEONOVUS
Dave Stark 3249	Posted - 2013.06.29 11:26:00 - [81] - Quote oh look, it's this thread again. OP, you're wrong and you're beating a dead horse. how does it feel?
Sergeant Acht Scultz School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 911	Posted - 2013.06.29 11:26:00 - [82] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants. Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink. Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you. THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS Dude, I don't really know if desperation or hopeless is the right word about you if you continue that route of thinking. Being a noobie in pvp can be extremely rewarding and you don't have to be in full T2 stuff, at all, believe me if many many noobies in our organization have far more isk 1month later than I do after playing several years. The thing you need to realize in pvp, one of the most rewarding job to do is PIN STUFF, not leave them run away, hold them for high dps fellah's to take it down. Very often older players don't do this not because it's unfunny but because it's a task where you die very often and our pods cost already more than the full fitted frigate. This prevent many of us to have fun pinning down stuff, because it's hell fun doing it. So as a noobie, you're mainly asked to start doing this not because it's tedious or unrewarding but for many reasons including the one I just mentioned. It's the best job to do for a newbie to learn Eve pvp basics: make a perch, provide warp out points for fleet/gang, tackle stuff at the gate or in fights, get logis safe of other inties, hell so much stuff to learn and rewarding. Yes it's rewarding because if you are in a decent group you're doing one of the most important jobs, and when you do it right usually the FC or older players just shower noobies with isk, some guys will give you a million, others 10 some 1B doesn't matter in the end, all you need to get is that you're doing it fking wrong and you're wasting time trying to achieve something you will not succeed as fast as you could if you understand you need to learn basics first, not jump directly to a full T2 frigate and be top DPS. If you really think noobies are out or excluded from pvp in Eve you're completely wrong, no other game a 1D old character can perfectly achieve the pin down of a 10 years player and offer to his team mates great kills. Again, you're doing it really wrong and you should feel bad for posting that. Join RvsB, awesome people, good FC's, excellent training and tons of fun on coms or fighting, just stop complaining and do it god dammit !! removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Cannibal Kane Temple of Kane 1950	Posted - 2013.06.29 11:28:00 - [83] - Quote Cannibal Kane wrote: Paul Otichoda wrote: basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants. Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink. Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you. THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS My corp of new players killing people in t1 frigates and t1 cruisers with t1 guns would like to prove you wrong on that. I even got older player that only ever knew missioning and mining joining corp. http://camp.killmail.org/ Even if you decided to swallow your great big crocodile tears long enough to try and join them. I won't allow a sniffling little cry baby like you to join anyway. Even If you had the joining fee. You got the wrong attitude for pvp. Quoting myself on a new page incase you missed it. Suck it up... then try again, but change the attitude first. "I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. -áHe flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. -áHis hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. -áIt was truly majestic. -áAnd while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off.-áBecause I am like that." --áNEONOVUS
Azurae South West Trading 77	Posted - 2013.06.29 11:28:00 - [84] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: Victoria Sin wrote: Paul Otichoda wrote: basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants. Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink. Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you. THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS Get into a T1 frigate with T1 fittings and join RvB (make sure you keep plenty of spares). why should I bother wasting my time on pvp when I can just go back to mining where I can actually make money and feeling like I'm doing something. In PvP I feel like nothing. Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: Somebody losed a duel..... No I spend the night going round faction warfare systems trying to find a frigate to fight against and got instant killed in all cases. Then got gate camped and pod killed. You see why I'm not having fun would you expect to kick the ass of a lvl 80 player in wow or some other game when you yourself are still lvl 20-30 ?? i dont think so... you are in this game for 19 days, ffs what did you expect? about 99% of the player base has been playing longer than you and you arent specialized in anything yet... focus your skills on one thing, specialize in it and suddenly you are as good as the old players in frigates...
Cannibal Kane Temple of Kane 1950	Posted - 2013.06.29 11:30:00 - [85] - Quote Azurae wrote: Paul Otichoda wrote: Victoria Sin wrote: Paul Otichoda wrote: basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants. Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink. Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you. THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS Get into a T1 frigate with T1 fittings and join RvB (make sure you keep plenty of spares). why should I bother wasting my time on pvp when I can just go back to mining where I can actually make money and feeling like I'm doing something. In PvP I feel like nothing. Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: Somebody losed a duel..... No I spend the night going round faction warfare systems trying to find a frigate to fight against and got instant killed in all cases. Then got gate camped and pod killed. You see why I'm not having fun would you expect to kick the ass of a lvl 80 player in wow or some other game when you yourself are still lvl 20-30 ?? i dont think so... you are in this game for 19 days, ffs what did you expect? about 99% of the player base has been playing longer than you and you arent specialized in anything yet... focus your skills on one thing, specialize in it and suddenly you are as good as the old players in frigates... You to... Your kind does not help. A 19 day old pilot will kill a guy in a battleship. All he needs is the understanding how to handle himself in that situation. "I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. -áHe flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. -áHis hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. -áIt was truly majestic. -áAnd while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off.-áBecause I am like that." --áNEONOVUS
flakeys Interstellar Corporation of Science and Technology Interstellar Confederation 1202	Posted - 2013.06.29 11:35:00 - [86] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: Gallowmere Rorschach wrote: Here's an idea: check player histories before agreeing to duel. If someone is more than twice your age (assuming you are less than 6 months old), they will likely have a significant advantage over you, especially if they are trained in a specialized manner. PvP in Eve is just as much about preparation and picking your battles as it is about the pew itself. yeah you've pretty much proved my point about pvp in this game. It only really matters about how old your character is. If your character is old is most likely able to use tech 2 weapons and then its game over I'll give you a short eve pvp lesson: First you are young you are gonna complain the older guys get you ... Then you are older you are gonna complain you get 3 or 5 against you.... Then you decide to do a roam with 5 friends and get hotdropped by capitals... Then you decide to join a big null Alliance , get into a war and you complain the other guy outnumbeers you 5 to 1.... Then you decide to join the biggest blob around , the CFC , get into a war and complain because the smaller guy you decided to attack actually get's people helping him making the odds more even.. In short eve pvp is like fitting your ship for pvp.When you fit a disruptor you should have taken a scrambler , if you take a sensor booster you should have taken a webifier , when you fly purifiers you should have taken a drake and when you fly a drake you shoulld have taken a sabre ..... Eve pvp rarely is fun , it is mostly an un-even fight and 90% of the time it's either you blobbing out the enemy making it boring as hell or the enemy blobbing the **** out of you making it soooooooooo unfair. HOWEVER , the verry rare 1vs1 you will get and you come out as the winner by a verry thin margin is THE BEST thing any game can offer you out there.It's like being a father , most of the times your kids will suck the blood right out of you , but the few times they are behaving like angels makes it the best thing in the world to be a dad. We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Vera Algaert Republic University Minmatar Republic 959	Posted - 2013.06.29 11:43:00 - [87] - Quote Caldari Citizen 20120308 wrote: Yes there are unfair advantages for older players flying frigates versus a new player with their frigate. But the training time isn't too bad. Within 1 month you should have, if you've narrowed your skill training to frigates and the mods associated with it, your skill books should be around lvl 4-5. No mmo that I know of has there been a new player going around pawning older characters. In most other MMOs it takes you at most 2 weeks to get to max level...
BoSau Hotim Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated 5824	Posted - 2013.06.29 11:44:00 - [88] - Quote Apherolaz wrote: Guys with more skill points and more ISK will crush you every time. If you insist on sticking around, you are going to have to accept the fact that all you are good for is padding the stats of better players - at least until you have 6 months of PvP skill training under your belt. Not true. The KB's are filled with proof on that one. Guys with more skill points and ISK will NOT crush you every time. I've gone solo against pilots 1-2 years older than me and won when we were both in similar ships. I'm just one pilot. My Ceo's first kill was against a player who was over a year older than him and he won. I have many similar stories and so do MANY of the players in Eve. Wherever you think you got your stats and timeframe of what makes a successful PvPer is pretty whack. I'm not a carebear... I'm a SPACE BARBIE!-á Now... where's Ken?
Bi-Mi Lansatha Tactical Universal Research and Development Omnium Libertatem 162	Posted - 2013.06.29 11:46:00 - [89] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants. Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink. Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you. THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS Yes and no. A one month old player has only a very small chance against a highly skilled and talented PvPer one on one. On the other hand, Not to long ago a very strong/skilled pirate in a professional Pirate/PvP Alliance wardec a Highsec Corp filled with new players. This Pirate was getting about 500 kills a month with very few losses, so they are good. But they did write about this one loss they experienced against this new player mining Corp. It seem the pirate had attacked two of the miners who were out in combat ships and had drained their cap and was working through their armor when a third member of that Corp showed up. The Pirate lost their ship. Adapt.
Seven Koskanaiken Clan Steel Wolves 229	Posted - 2013.06.29 11:58:00 - [90] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Rico Minali wrote: A few months ago a couple of friends and I made a brand new characters of various races, trained to use a warp disruptor an AB and basic T1 weaponry and went pvping in less than 24 hours. We won a surprising number of engagements, there were 4 or 5 of us, sometimes we solo'd or in pairs and sometimes all 5 of us. We had an enormous amount of fun for a couple of weeks, in fact some of the best fun Ive had in a long time. In fact I may just do it again. So basically, op doesn't have clue what he is talking about. There is a difference between your newb alts and the OP, that difference is experience, the ships are fine, the modules are fine and the skills available to a newbie are fine. Experience only comes with time and practice just as it does in real life, but yeah even the greenest of newbies can dive straight into PvP and get in on kills while they gain the experience. The best way to learn to PvP is to do it, preferably with friends. This is true. M+ís sabe el diablo por viejo que por diablo. The devil knows more because he is older, rather than for being the devil.
S Byerley The Manhattan Engineer District 43	Posted - 2013.06.29 12:01:00 - [91] - Quote Vera Algaert wrote: Caldari Citizen 20120308 wrote: Yes there are unfair advantages for older players flying frigates versus a new player with their frigate. But the training time isn't too bad. Within 1 month you should have, if you've narrowed your skill training to frigates and the mods associated with it, your skill books should be around lvl 4-5. No mmo that I know of has there been a new player going around pawning older characters. In most other MMOs it takes you at most 2 weeks to get to max level... Depends on the MMO; I'm pretty sure the EQ grind these days is ridiculous.
Lucy Cooper Infinity Forge Industries 0	Posted - 2013.06.29 12:41:00 - [92] - Quote I know this is probably posted already but rvb is some pew or you know join a corp that can field at least a small fleet.
Rico Minali The Straw Men 1288	Posted - 2013.06.29 12:48:00 - [93] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Rico Minali wrote: A few months ago a couple of friends and I made a brand new characters of various races, trained to use a warp disruptor an AB and basic T1 weaponry and went pvping in less than 24 hours. We won a surprising number of engagements, there were 4 or 5 of us, sometimes we solo'd or in pairs and sometimes all 5 of us. We had an enormous amount of fun for a couple of weeks, in fact some of the best fun Ive had in a long time. In fact I may just do it again. So basically, op doesn't have clue what he is talking about. There is a difference between your newb alts and the OP, that difference is experience, the ships are fine, the modules are fine and the skills available to a newbie are fine. Experience only comes with time and practice just as it does in real life, but yeah even the greenest of newbies can dive straight into PvP and get in on kills while they gain the experience. The best way to learn to PvP is to do it, preferably with friends. You are right of course, however that isnt what the op is saying, he is saying the skills and weapons of older players are unfair. There is no comparison to actual playing experience in any game and Eve is no different. Like I said though it is immense fun to go back to those newbie characters and just have fun with them, a great laugh and at minimal expense and on top of that you can engage and win too, it isnt just about fun getting blown up, which if you are playing the game is it should be - a game then you will be having fun wether you win or lose. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 10436	Posted - 2013.06.29 12:54:00 - [94] - Quote Dave Stark wrote: oh look, it's this thread again. OP, you're wrong and you're beating a dead horse. how does it feel? That he's finally found an opponent he can cope with? 1 Kings 12:11
Zimmy Zeta Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 24193	Posted - 2013.06.29 13:02:00 - [95] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Dave Stark wrote: oh look, it's this thread again. OP, you're wrong and you're beating a dead horse. how does it feel? That he's finally found an opponent he can cope with? Boys and girls, don't try this at home. Always remember to poke dead things with a stick before you start kicking or beating them. Just think of how bad an average post by me is, and then realize half of them are even worse
Remiel Pollard Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated 1537	Posted - 2013.06.29 13:02:00 - [96] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants. Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink. Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you. THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS Shut up. I've been PVP'ing on a toon with less than 1mil SP for just under a month now. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita.
Loraxx Zeus Star Creators 1	Posted - 2013.06.29 13:03:00 - [97] - Quote You are totally right. I totally didn't start pvp'in when I was 1 month into the game.... /sarcasm
Loraxx Zeus Star Creators 2	Posted - 2013.06.29 13:11:00 - [98] - Quote flakeys wrote: [quote=Paul Otichoda][quote=Gallowmere Rorschach] #1 First you are young you are gonna complain the older guys get you ... #2 Then you are older you are gonna complain you get 3 or 5 against you.... #3 Then you decide to do a roam with 5 friends and get hotdropped by capitals... #4 Then you decide to join a big null Alliance , get into a war and you complain the other guy outnumbeers you 5 to 1.... #5 Then you decide to join the biggest blob around , the CFC , get into a war and complain because the smaller guy you decided to attack actually get's people helping him making the odds more even.. . Can I build on that? At the very end: Then you go on the forums complaining that pvp is so hard to come by and barely anyone fights, while completely obvious to the fact it's due to you dropping more supers than they have in support. Then you decide to quit/leave, a long with a ton of other people and the coalition/alliance collapses underneath itself. Then you decide to go through the whole process again, starting from number 4
Tarsha Listur Galtaki Rangers 3	Posted - 2013.06.29 13:25:00 - [99] - Quote Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote: Well general D we tried to help him in new citizens Q&A but he's a failure of gaming...he's all yours. Thanks...
Jamagh Grand Violations 40	Posted - 2013.06.29 13:26:00 - [100] - Quote Is it unfair? shrugs That is life. there is always going to be someone better than you. Besides, death IS the ultimate fairness. Young or old. Rich or poor. Strong or weak. Death comes for them all. "Please stop reopening silly rumor threads."-á CCP Navigator.
Yusef Brion Big Yellow Pidgeon Inc. 8	Posted - 2013.06.29 13:28:00 - [101] - Quote Vera Algaert wrote: Caldari Citizen 20120308 wrote: Yes there are unfair advantages for older players flying frigates versus a new player with their frigate. But the training time isn't too bad. Within 1 month you should have, if you've narrowed your skill training to frigates and the mods associated with it, your skill books should be around lvl 4-5. No mmo that I know of has there been a new player going around pawning older characters. In most other MMOs it takes you at most 2 weeks to get to max level... wat Malcanis wrote: Dave Stark wrote: oh look, it's this thread again. OP, you're wrong and you're beating a dead horse. how does it feel? That he's finally found an opponent he can cope with? OH SNAP OP is probably not even reading anymore.
Ace Uoweme Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 321	Posted - 2013.06.29 13:54:00 - [102] - Quote Yusef Brion wrote: Vera Algaert wrote: Caldari Citizen 20120308 wrote: Yes there are unfair advantages for older players flying frigates versus a new player with their frigate. But the training time isn't too bad. Within 1 month you should have, if you've narrowed your skill training to frigates and the mods associated with it, your skill books should be around lvl 4-5. No mmo that I know of has there been a new player going around pawning older characters. In most other MMOs it takes you at most 2 weeks to get to max level... wat 1-90 within 7 days (power leveling) is possible in WoW. Takes about 1 day to get from 85 to 90 as it is. They can be max level in the amount of time to train Weapon Upgrades to 5. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
Inxentas Ultramar Ultramar Independent Contracting Home Front Coalition 551	Posted - 2013.06.29 14:00:00 - [103] - Quote Ohai I'm posting too! Also we took a few frigs into FW plexes last night in terrible experimental fits and we killed a T2 fitted Merlin. OP needs a few buddies but his attitude doesn't help.
Kryss Darkdust The Skulls 237	Posted - 2013.06.29 14:17:00 - [104] - Quote fluffy kitten quilting company and snuggle club [SNUGL] Just check out their early wars, most of their characters where 2-3 weeks old when they where doing BILLIONS in damages taking virtually no losess. There is people skill and their is character skill... character skill is practically irrelevant in Eve... people skill, is everything in Eve. These where new characters but old Eve dogs running them. This is just one of countless examples, I chose them because I have personal experiance both facing their tactics in war and then ultimatly fighting along side them using their tactics. Be humble in Eve and learn from the pros and you will get better and come to realize how irrelevant your character skills are in comparison to player skill. Or you could stick with this tactic, where you cry on the forum and try to pretend like you know better then people who prove you wrong. Your call. The reality of Eve is that, if you don't love it like it is today, you should probobly go ahead and unsub.-á
TheGunslinger42 All Web Investigations 1450	Posted - 2013.06.29 14:46:00 - [105] - Quote I guess OP doesn't understand this game at all, and thinks higher "levels" and "bigger" is always better and always wins poor bad OP I hope one day he learns the trtuh
Etteluor Debitum Naturae WHY so Seri0Us 6	Posted - 2013.06.29 14:49:00 - [106] - Quote This is the single stupidest thing i've ever read on the forums, which is saying a lot. If you can't find a way to be useful to a fleet with low skillpoints then you probably don't belong in this game. Stop trying to solo pvp, join red vs blue, and learn how to play the game.
Eternal Corrosion I hope you were insured POWERED. 18	Posted - 2013.06.29 15:30:00 - [107] - Quote You are pathetic. Go back to mine so we, the bad people, can kill you in your mining ship and harvest your tears with our t2 guns while we use our faction ammo. Also, go to manufacturing so i can buy a ship to kill you. Bad lowsec piwate o7 I will always love LowSec
Hells Merc mUfFiN fAcToRy 5	Posted - 2013.06.29 15:40:00 - [108] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants. Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink. Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you. THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS Life not fair kidda..... As with a most things in life, bringing in your I was a fat kid at school but teach said I was a spechul snowflake skewed view of reality is not going to cut it. Fat kid up and do something about it, preferably without whining/trolling in the forums. Good news for fat kids.
Ace Uoweme Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 322	Posted - 2013.06.29 16:38:00 - [109] - Quote Eternal Corrosion wrote: Go back to mine so we, the bad people, can kill you in your mining ship and harvest your tears with our t2 guns while we use our faction ammo. Also, go to manufacturing so i can buy a ship to kill you. Bad lowsec piwate o7 Meanwhile, have you seen this? https://robertsspaceindustries.com/about-the-game It'll be PvE. Won't have to worry about low self-esteem basement boys polluting space. Keep pushing and the only thing left for you to play with is some Goon bots. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
Verunae Caseti Viziam Amarr Empire 3	Posted - 2013.06.29 16:52:00 - [110] - Quote Vera Algaert wrote: In most other MMOs it takes you at most 2 weeks to get to max level... Today I learned "Other MMOs" means WoW.
Thanatos Marathon Black Fox Marauders 5	Posted - 2013.06.29 17:35:00 - [111] - Quote oops another 2013 player posting that is having fun in PvP. Sorry to the OP for bursting bubbles. http://blfox.eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=1589649
Jonah Gravenstein Caliban Logistics and Storage 9442	Posted - 2013.06.29 17:42:00 - [112] - Quote Verunae Caseti wrote: Vera Algaert wrote: In most other MMOs it takes you at most 2 weeks to get to max level... Today I learned "Other MMOs" means WoW. With Ace everything is WoW. In Eve you're a god, why have morals?
Terranid Meester Tactical Assault and Recon Unit 151	Posted - 2013.06.29 17:44:00 - [113] - Quote Hey someone has to be bottom of the heap OP and god knows you're the one.
Yusef Brion Big Yellow Pidgeon Inc. 9	Posted - 2013.06.29 17:51:00 - [114] - Quote Verunae Caseti wrote: Vera Algaert wrote: In most other MMOs it takes you at most 2 weeks to get to max level... Today I learned "Other MMOs" means WoW. And I learned that no one else reads the quests or chats up other players for "fun". All the fun is at the endgame and if you ain't first, you're last.
Sunshyn LaBlond 24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire 15	Posted - 2013.06.29 19:10:00 - [115] - Quote Tasty tasty tears
Paul Otichoda State War Academy Caldari State 5	Posted - 2013.06.29 19:49:00 - [116] - Quote Thanatos Marathon wrote: oops another 2013 player posting that is having fun in PvP. Sorry to the OP for bursting bubbles. http://blfox.eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=1589649 yeah and you're lose board also shows you have tech 2 weapons and all your kills have been with a large fleet. So pretty much what everyone has said is: your an idiot and l2p go play Wow go to corp X frigates are only good for tackling in a fleet well if the last is true why bother having frigates at all in the game.
Willie Horton Open University of Celestial Hardship Art of War Alliance 14	Posted - 2013.06.29 20:23:00 - [117] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: Thanatos Marathon wrote: oops another 2013 player posting that is having fun in PvP. Sorry to the OP for bursting bubbles. http://blfox.eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=1589649 yeah and you're lose board also shows you have tech 2 weapons and all your kills have been with a large fleet. So pretty much what everyone has said is: your an idiot and l2p go play Wow go to corp X frigates are only good for tackling in a fleet well if the last is true why bother having frigates at all in the game if they can't do anything by themselves. I guess your intent to **** people worked. If in any case you are serious about what you are writing you are wrong . It would be stupid in game of this type, that all call one of most difficult mmo's to go and make wonders in few days old pilot. All takes time ,and for start try finding people that will help you understand how things work.There is many corps that are helping new players and even make them be really deadly to older pilots. All you need to do is just ask around ,and check forum about it. Don't come and bash game design if you didn't spent enough time to check is there options to enhance you play .This way you will only get burned nothing more. We all started as new players and had our ups and downs,it is nature of game.In same time all that is not limiting you from most of stuff in this game,cause real power come from player interactions not from trying solo space crusade.You can play solo but for that you need really good knowledge of game and lots of trial and error .
Dogg The BountyHunter EVE University Ivy League 0	Posted - 2013.06.29 20:58:00 - [118] - Quote I am a 2013 character and I have been trying to solo pvp in lowsec I've died to a couple of ships that I shouldn't have engaged as they had the same range that I did but I killed a t2 fit ship when I don't have t2 guns, all you have to do is pick a fit that can counter what you are flying against. It's hard and requires a lot of reading to make sure that you know what are engaging but it is possible.
Short Stack122 Noblesse Oblige. Cult of War 3	Posted - 2013.06.29 21:22:00 - [119] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: Thanatos Marathon wrote: oops another 2013 player posting that is having fun in PvP. Sorry to the OP for bursting bubbles. http://blfox.eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=1589649 yeah and you're lose board also shows you have tech 2 weapons and all your kills have been with a large fleet. So pretty much what everyone has said is: your an idiot and l2p go play Wow go to corp X frigates are only good for tackling in a fleet well if the last is true why bother having frigates at all in the game if they can't do anything by themselves. why don't you quit whining and learn that PvP isn't just "size matters". i mean, i've seen plenty of commercials on late at night if the only thing you care about is size, they can help. if you want to quit complaining and actually PvP and have fun, learn how to use a tackle frig effectively what most of the players in this thread have said can be summed up by that list but that 4th point isn't bad. just because you are not the person shooting someone in a fight, doesn't make you useless. the biggest problem that you seem to have is that there has been a lot of good advice given and you are too stubborn and incompetent to make use of it, all you see is "oh my frig that i can fly WELL isn't good for shooting" and then you have shut down. EvE is a social game, play it how you will, but playing with a group of players who A) enjoy playing like you do and B) have some experience or want to gain experience with you will make the game MUCH more enjoyable for you and them. take the advice or leave it, but QUIT COMPLAINING that no one is giving you good advice, because they are, you have just been ignoring it
Snezz Boscone Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 4	Posted - 2013.06.29 21:33:00 - [120] - Quote Six Six Six wrote: Paul Otichoda wrote: Victoria Sin wrote: Paul Otichoda wrote: No I spend the night going round faction warfare systems trying to find a frigate to fight against and got instant killed in all cases. Then got gate camped and pod killed. You see why I'm not having fun You're doing it wrongGäó. Faction warfare systems? What kind of player do you expect to meet there, and what kind of ship, fitting and skill levels do you think they're going to be packing? faction warfare is market as the way to get into PvP so I expect people with tech 1 stuff like mee yet the people I see in these systems are all veterens of atleast a year. There is no one in this game it seems who are actually flying basic ships. It may have changed but I seem to remember when FW was first introduced that it was not aimed at new players. FW can be real tricky and frustrating. I am terrible at PvP also, but RVB is awesome...look at my killboard. I joined about 3 weeks ago and I have contributed to over 75 kills in that time. RvB regularly has events to prime rookies for PvP, and you learn all kinds of wonderful things on how to be a better combat pilot good luck o7 never posting from my phone again.
Gallowmere Rorschach Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats 280	Posted - 2013.06.29 21:50:00 - [121] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: Thanatos Marathon wrote: oops another 2013 player posting that is having fun in PvP. Sorry to the OP for bursting bubbles. http://blfox.eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=1589649 yeah and you're lose board also shows you have tech 2 weapons and all your kills have been with a large fleet. So pretty much what everyone has said is: your an idiot and l2p go play Wow go to corp X frigates are only good for tackling in a fleet well if the last is true why bother having frigates at all in the game if they can't do anything by themselves. Those who said frigs are only good for tackling in a fleet (don't actually recall anyone using those exact words though) have never been involved with faction warfare. Out here, we have to ship down to T1 frigs more often than anything else. It's all that can fit in novice plexes, and when someone sees a Thrasher rolling around system, where do you think they run to? I'm almost a year old, and I spend more time in a Breacher now than anything else. Best part? It's a lot more fun than lumbering around in a slow ass battleship. :)
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 10448	Posted - 2013.06.29 22:26:00 - [122] - Quote Ace Uoweme wrote: Eternal Corrosion wrote: Go back to mine so we, the bad people, can kill you in your mining ship and harvest your tears with our t2 guns while we use our faction ammo. Also, go to manufacturing so i can buy a ship to kill you. Bad lowsec piwate o7 Meanwhile, have you seen this? https://robertsspaceindustries.com/about-the-game It'll be PvE. Won't have to worry about low self-esteem basement boys polluting space. Keep pushing and the only thing left for you to play with is some Goon bots. Sounds good. At least goon bots don't fill up the forum with nega-logic spergstorms 1 Kings 12:11
Zane Tekitsu D.I.C.A.D. Solutions 19	Posted - 2013.06.30 00:23:00 - [123] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: ~Blah blah bah~ why should I bother wasting my time on pvp when I can just go back to mining where I can actually make money and feeling like I'm doing something. In PvP I feel like nothing. So why was this thread started? Don't like pvp? Pay someone else to.
Kaarous Aldurald ROC Academy The ROC 336	Posted - 2013.06.30 00:26:00 - [124] - Quote Zane Tekitsu wrote: Paul Otichoda wrote: ~Blah blah bah~ why should I bother wasting my time on pvp when I can just go back to mining where I can actually make money and feeling like I'm doing something. In PvP I feel like nothing. So why was this thread started? Don't like pvp? Pay someone else to. This thread was started because: Reality of EVE ---> PvP requires thought, planning, and patience. OP ---> Does not have, or does not want to use, thought, planning, or patience. Because everything should be some dumbass twitch shooter like CoD... Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Robert Saint Playright 73	Posted - 2013.06.30 03:02:00 - [125] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants. Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink. Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you. THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS I've found in this forum that it is so very "As it is Stable" that these types of posts are just a lost battle. I totally agree with you though and think there needs to be a PVP intro Arena, but that got shot down by the same group that will kill yours.... "They say" and I don't even need to read the posts.... the same thing over and over. -- because they are already seasoned and think of new players as food... 1) Join RVB 2) Start small with T1 frigate 3) Find another game to play 4) Get balls and get out and die... 5) Start your own group and do it your way.....blah ... blah..... blah. Same old , same old... You've just learned that there is an established group that trolls in the forums to keep things as they are.... sort of like a Troll Mafia. But, if you leave, can I have your stuff... (stole that one from a Mafia troll).
Robert Saint Playright 73	Posted - 2013.06.30 03:06:00 - [126] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Ace Uoweme wrote: Eternal Corrosion wrote: Go back to mine so we, the bad people, can kill you in your mining ship and harvest your tears with our t2 guns while we use our faction ammo. Also, go to manufacturing so i can buy a ship to kill you. Bad lowsec piwate o7 Meanwhile, have you seen this? https://robertsspaceindustries.com/about-the-game It'll be PvE. Won't have to worry about low self-esteem basement boys polluting space. Keep pushing and the only thing left for you to play with is some Goon bots. Sounds good. At least goon bots don't fill up the forum with nega-logic spergstorms Dude, your call sign says CSM does it not... aren't you here for the little people - - - all the little people, not just your Mafia? you should keep your own negative comment in control . . . .
Minmatar Citizen160812 The LGBT Last Supper 326	Posted - 2013.06.30 03:06:00 - [127] - Quote Zane Tekitsu wrote: Paul Otichoda wrote: ~Blah blah bah~ why should I bother wasting my time on pvp when I can just go back to mining where I can actually make money and feeling like I'm doing something. In PvP I feel like nothing. So why was this thread started? Don't like pvp? Pay someone else to. Whoooa...slow down there Speedy Gonzales you may short out his last braincell.
Knights Armament Yale Socialite Club 74	Posted - 2013.06.30 03:17:00 - [128] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants. Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink. Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you. THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS pvp for new players you have to sacrifice a few things you won't kill anyone solo, but you can join a fleet and leech off of them, you won't ever get any loot, and the whole scenario is about as fun, as mining. https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=29554516-05f9-4eca-a942-32e1701a6569&action=buddy
Zappity Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 157	Posted - 2013.06.30 03:17:00 - [129] - Quote Robert Saint wrote: Paul Otichoda wrote: basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants. Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink. Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you. THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS I've found in this forum that it is so very "As it is Stable" that these types of posts are just a lost battle. I totally agree with you though and think there needs to be a PVP intro Arena, but that got shot down by the same group that will kill yours.... "They say" and I don't even need to read the posts.... the same thing over and over. -- because they are already seasoned and think of new players as food... 1) Join RVB 2) Start small with T1 frigate 3) Find another game to play 4) Get balls and get out and die... 5) Start your own group and do it your way.....blah ... blah..... blah. Same old , same old... You've just learned that there is an established group that trolls in the forums to keep things as they are.... sort of like a Troll Mafia. But, if you leave, can I have your stuff... (stole that one from a Mafia troll). Hang on, if you want a risk free learning environment you should try the test server. Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.")
Zappity Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 157	Posted - 2013.06.30 03:23:00 - [130] - Quote Knights Armament wrote: pvp for new players you have to sacrifice a few things you won't kill anyone solo Rubbish. See my earlier post. Knights Armament wrote: but you can join a fleet and leech off of them, you won't ever get any loot Sorry, this is just absolute nonsense. Knights Armament wrote: and the whole scenario is about as fun, as mining. I understand now. You've never actually done it, have you? Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.")
Knights Armament Yale Socialite Club 74	Posted - 2013.06.30 03:25:00 - [131] - Quote Zappity wrote: Knights Armament wrote: pvp for new players you have to sacrifice a few things you won't kill anyone solo Rubbish. See my earlier post. Knights Armament wrote: but you can join a fleet and leech off of them, you won't ever get any loot Sorry, this is just absolute nonsense. Knights Armament wrote: and the whole scenario is about as fun, as mining. I understand now. You've never actually done it, have you? yeah I've never done it, I just make wild accusations to upset people on a general message board to point out how lame arguing on the internet is. https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=29554516-05f9-4eca-a942-32e1701a6569&action=buddy
Kaarous Aldurald ROC Academy The ROC 336	Posted - 2013.06.30 03:32:00 - [132] - Quote Quote: yeah I've never done it, I just make wild accusations to point out how lame I am. Fixed it for you. Whatever else you say, you seem to not really have much PvP experience at all. Because the game isn't like what you think. It seems to me, like you, the OP, and a few other guys, got whipped once, then decided that the entire game isn't fair just based on that one encounter, and decided that if you can't beat em, whine about em on the forums. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Ace Uoweme Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 328	Posted - 2013.06.30 03:50:00 - [133] - Quote Gallowmere Rorschach wrote: Those who said frigs are only good for tackling in a fleet (don't actually recall anyone using those exact words though) have never been involved with faction warfare. Out here, we have to ship down to T1 frigs more often than anything else. It's all that can fit in novice plexes, and when someone sees a Thrasher rolling around system, where do you think they run to? I'm almost a year old, and I spend more time in a Breacher now than anything else. Best part? It's a lot more fun than lumbering around in a slow ass battleship. :) And the small T1 fits are popular in ALL PvP in EvE...because it's cheap. It doesn't matter if it's FW. Bottomline is: you don't play with expensive ships to have a daily pewpewpew. It costs too much. The problem there is those cheap T1 frigates are also the only ships newbies can fly, and they get hit like in WoW by a level 90 ganking a level 10 in the process, over and over and over. Don't know about you guys, but isn't the reason why players skill up IS to fly the bigger and better ships? Running around novice plexes in T1 frigates, is like in WoW level 90s putting on level 10 gear and fighting. They'll still win due to level bonuses, just like in EvE with skill bonuses. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
Minmatar Citizen160812 The LGBT Last Supper 326	Posted - 2013.06.30 03:55:00 - [134] - Quote Ace Uoweme wrote: Gallowmere Rorschach wrote: Those who said frigs are only good for tackling in a fleet (don't actually recall anyone using those exact words though) have never been involved with faction warfare. Out here, we have to ship down to T1 frigs more often than anything else. It's all that can fit in novice plexes, and when someone sees a Thrasher rolling around system, where do you think they run to? I'm almost a year old, and I spend more time in a Breacher now than anything else. Best part? It's a lot more fun than lumbering around in a slow ass battleship. :) Bottomline is: you don't play with expensive ships to have a daily pewpewpew. It costs too much. Wait...what?...I guess it costs too much if you're a bad and loosing ships is the usual end result of your pewpew.
Robert Saint Playright 73	Posted - 2013.06.30 04:01:00 - [135] - Quote Ace Uoweme wrote: Don't know about you guys, but isn't the reason why players skill up IS to fly the bigger and better ships? Running around novice plexes in T1 frigates, is like in WoW level 90s putting on level 10 gear and fighting. They'll still win due to level bonuses, just like in EvE with skill bonuses. THIS.... I think it's called leveling in other games that share the MMO banner. They don't approve of leveling in this game.
Zappity Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 158	Posted - 2013.06.30 04:32:00 - [136] - Quote Robert Saint wrote: Ace Uoweme wrote: Don't know about you guys, but isn't the reason why players skill up IS to fly the bigger and better ships? Running around novice plexes in T1 frigates, is like in WoW level 90s putting on level 10 gear and fighting. They'll still win due to level bonuses, just like in EvE with skill bonuses. THIS.... No, not THIS... Skill points are important but they are not the end of the story. Equally important is knowing your ship's strengths and weaknesses. This defines your engagement decisions. So a 100m SP veteran in a Rifter could easily be killed by a 5m SP player in a Condor (curse him, I hate Condors). Those same players in identical ships will, of course, be a different outcome. But you can choose who to fight. Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.")
Sarton Wells Blackmoon Ltd. 16	Posted - 2013.06.30 04:54:00 - [137] - Quote Ace Uoweme wrote: Don't know about you guys, but isn't the reason why players skill up IS to fly the bigger and better ships? Running around novice plexes in T1 frigates, is like in WoW level 90s putting on level 10 gear and fighting. They'll still win due to level bonuses, just like in EvE with skill bonuses. Then by all means buy a pvp focused character with perfect t1 frigate skills and see how well you'll do. It won't cost much since to get those skills you'll need 5-6 months training (tops). And for nearly perfect skills you'll need only a couple months. So go ahead try it. You can then come back complaining about how unfair is that "wasting" time training skills doesn't give you enough advantage over new pilots.
Fenix Caderu Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2013.06.30 05:01:00 - [138] - Quote You're doing it wrong... I don't get why anyone expects a fair fight in EvE. This isn't some fantasy game with orcs and warlocks. There are no knights to duel for honor, the only honor is getting that killmail. It's simulated space combat...ie, war, with assets at stake. In war you have to win, by any means possible. Try having that mindset instead of expecting a fair fight. Hate to say it because ive been victim of the blob before too, but no tactic is cheap as long as it works.
Ace Uoweme Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 328	Posted - 2013.06.30 05:02:00 - [139] - Quote Zappity wrote: Robert Saint wrote: Ace Uoweme wrote: Don't know about you guys, but isn't the reason why players skill up IS to fly the bigger and better ships? Running around novice plexes in T1 frigates, is like in WoW level 90s putting on level 10 gear and fighting. They'll still win due to level bonuses, just like in EvE with skill bonuses. THIS.... No, not THIS... Skill points are important but they are not the end of the story. Equally important is knowing your ship's strengths and weaknesses. This defines your engagement decisions. So a 100m SP veteran in a Rifter could easily be killed by a 5m SP player in a Condor (curse him, I hate Condors). Those same players in identical ships will, of course, be a different outcome. But you can choose who to fight. That's no different in WoW. A healer isn't going to fare well attacking a DPS player. A healer if they're going to attack in PvP is going to find someone they can have a chance to kill (like a pesky rogue who thinks he has a great target but made the mistake of not locking the healer down). So even in WoW you have to pick your targets carefully...even at max level. In EvE, a low SP player has more options, but he can equally be countered well if the other player knows his stuff (just like in WoW). That's the main premise here. A low SP player isn't going to have the skills for say ECM drones or countermeasures, that's specialized gameplay. He has skills that are quick to level and get on the battlefield, the same skills that a competent higher SP player can defeat even in the same level of ships. And how is that possible...experience. The newbie will take a month or longer to learn what to do do against what ship. The vet already knows all that. Also the lower SP player isn't going to pick X ship (like the Condor) because it can counter Z ship, because he isn't experienced enough to know (and if you've been in enough corps, you'll know they don't offer such tips regularly to find out -- last one I was in I was doing builds for players. How? All my time in WoW, because if you compete in raids or PvP you must know your class, gear and tactics...doesn't change because I play EvE. You check the recommended builds on Battleclinic, and deduct why X is used for Y and read the comments of why to avoid or do Z, and you get an idea how XYZ will work against ABC [games are very much similar]. Then test it in PvE to measure how much you need to survive and/or maintain a good level of DPS). "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
Ace Uoweme Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 329	Posted - 2013.06.30 05:36:00 - [140] - Quote Sarton Wells wrote: Ace Uoweme wrote: Don't know about you guys, but isn't the reason why players skill up IS to fly the bigger and better ships? Running around novice plexes in T1 frigates, is like in WoW level 90s putting on level 10 gear and fighting. They'll still win due to level bonuses, just like in EvE with skill bonuses. Then by all means buy a pvp focused character with perfect t1 frigate skills and see how well you'll do. It won't cost much since to get those skills you'll need 5-6 months training (tops). And for nearly perfect skills you'll need only a couple months. So go ahead try it. You can then come back complaining about how unfair is that "wasting" time training skills doesn't give you enough advantage over new pilots. No name change service in EvE. Unless I can name my toon the way I want it, not sinking ISK in premade toons. It's a MMORPG, not a MMOFPS with faceless pointmen. 5-6 months isn't a newbie (well in EvE where it would take over 25 years to skill up completely it maybe) but timescale wise across all MMOs, that's a long time to be a newb. It takes around 600 days of skill training to level 4-5 the core/defense/drone/ and weapons skills. Evemon shows it takes 132 days alone just for core skills (to fit the modules; power the ship; target and fly at max abilities). Core skills in other games is like maxing out your class or role skills, and a priority. Fitting rigs to power a ship is self-defeating. If you can't target further than 50m, it's self-defeating. If your shields/armor are but a wet paper bag, just die at the dock already. I know what you guys are saying, but at the same time if you jump in too fast without enough skills you're either just going to be easy kills for others, or a carried. And even in WoW being a carried is looked down upon. EQII the same applies. DDO. RIFT. Because if you show up be ready to play your part. And that's what I'm getting at...be a full part of the team, not keep being carried. If you want to mentor fine, but most want you to be skilled enough to be good at what you do (and can fit the corps recommended fits. When my toon had 2mil SP he could not fit those fits, and it wasn't fun while everyone in their T2s can play, and you're but a liability...they have the skills to fly faster; hit harder and even salvage [an important skill out in null]). "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
Bruce Kemp Autarky The Autonomy 48	Posted - 2013.06.30 05:57:00 - [141] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants. Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink. Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you. THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS Tracking disrupters and other e-war kid, use them. They can mess up a 10 year players guns,lock range,targeting, Kite, deeps, disrupt,jam,damp, take your pick.
Sarton Wells Blackmoon Ltd. 16	Posted - 2013.06.30 06:02:00 - [142] - Quote I'm not sure you understood my point. In eve (unlike most mmorpgs) what matters most is player skills and social contacts. And by the time you gain those you'll have your character skills at the needed level for what you want to do. Just to put in context with wow (since you seem to love to compare eve with theme park mmos) - in WoW a lvl 90 character can defeat an unlimited amount of lvl 10 players. You can send 1000 lvl 10 players and they'll die instantly. In eve 2-3 less than a month old players can cause an unlimited amount of damage to a 10 years old character. It all depends on how you play them.
Mocam EVE University Ivy League 284	Posted - 2013.06.30 06:23:00 - [143] - Quote Let's see if you can understand this... Do you know what a piranha is? It is one of the most famous predator fish on the planet due to how they operate. In large groups, they can strip even a rhino to the bone in a matter of seconds. A single fish isn't a major threat to anything but a school of them? ... Yet... Schooling of fish is a protective measure - a way to confuse and distract hungry nasties from eating them. So if this famous predatory fish forms up in schools, running in huge groups at times; did you ever wonder what the hell keeps them using this as a core defensive tactic? Something still hunts and eats them. Until you get big enough and know enough, I'd suggest you hang with others in a big pack. That "schooling" type approach to how you should run. It's safer and like those little fish with sharp teeth, you'll do well enough against even the largest types of opponents. Over time you'll learn to recognize which are threats and which are safer and after you've learned this, then try the soloing stuff but always remember those roots of sticking with others and when to run...
Ace Uoweme Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 329	Posted - 2013.06.30 06:32:00 - [144] - Quote Mocam wrote: Over time you'll learn to recognize which are threats and which are safer and after you've learned this, then try the soloing stuff but always remember those roots of sticking with others and when to run... But you also can learn that from YouTube, in the safety of your station and not having to spend ISK on lost gear, and save it for skill books, too. What you can learn of the basics you can watch online. So when you're ready to join the schools of sharks for better meals, you can, with teeth sharp enough to bite the other fish's head off, then eat it whole. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3751	Posted - 2013.06.30 06:36:00 - [145] - Quote Mocam wrote: Let's see if you can understand this... Do you know what a piranha is? It is one of the most famous predator fish on the planet due to how they operate. In large groups, they can strip even a rhino to the bone in a matter of seconds. A single fish isn't a major threat to anything but a school of them? ... Yet... Schooling of fish is a protective measure - a way to confuse and distract hungry nasties from eating them. So if this famous predatory fish forms up in schools, running in huge groups at times; did you ever wonder what the hell keeps them using this as a core defensive tactic? Something still hunts and eats them. Until you get big enough and know enough, I'd suggest you hang with others in a big pack. That "schooling" type approach to how you should run. It's safer and like those little fish with sharp teeth, you'll do well enough against even the largest types of opponents. Over time you'll learn to recognize which are threats and which are safer and after you've learned this, then try the soloing stuff but always remember those roots of sticking with others and when to run... Blobbers. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over. TEST Defence, Please Ignore
Sarton Wells Blackmoon Ltd. 16	Posted - 2013.06.30 06:37:00 - [146] - Quote Ace Uoweme wrote: Mocam wrote: Over time you'll learn to recognize which are threats and which are safer and after you've learned this, then try the soloing stuff but always remember those roots of sticking with others and when to run... But you also can learn that from YouTube, in the safety of your station and not having to spend ISK on lost gear, and save it for skill books, too. No, you can't. You really can't. The next best thing to losing isk is the test server but it's still not the real thing.
Istyn Freight Club Whores in space 215	Posted - 2013.06.30 06:44:00 - [147] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. These things aren't really optional for PVP. Even if you did manage to start winning, did you think they would honourably sit there and allow you to kill them?
Ace Uoweme Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 329	Posted - 2013.06.30 06:58:00 - [148] - Quote Sarton Wells wrote: Ace Uoweme wrote: Mocam wrote: Over time you'll learn to recognize which are threats and which are safer and after you've learned this, then try the soloing stuff but always remember those roots of sticking with others and when to run... But you also can learn that from YouTube, in the safety of your station and not having to spend ISK on lost gear, and save it for skill books, too. No, you can't. You really can't. The next best thing to losing isk is the test server but it's still not the real thing. Oh, yes you can. EvE isn't a special snowflake in the gaming world. Don't confuse sandbox with programming and game design -- From WoW to EvE it's exactly the same. A programmer in WoW is like the programmer in EvE. They just use different tools (each house makes their own) to do the same job and have a different design protocols. The rest is no different. What I can learn off a video for BF3; is the same I can learn for WoW; and the same I've been using for EvE (and they do it without the fluff). The last EvE videos I watched and bookmarked was with solo PvP. It was interesting because it wasn't a kid with a jockstrap strapped to his head explaining it. Full HD, and shows his full screen. He explained what he was doing; why he was doing it; reasons for doing A over B; tactics in encounters (like how to bait and separate). Real random encounters in low/null, not outside of a station, too. Yeah, it can be done. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
Sarton Wells Blackmoon Ltd. 16	Posted - 2013.06.30 07:02:00 - [149] - Quote Theoretical knowledge is all good and fine but you still need A TON of practical experience. The same goes for both bf3 and wow.
Ace Uoweme Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 329	Posted - 2013.06.30 07:13:00 - [150] - Quote Sarton Wells wrote: Theoretical knowledge is all good and fine but you still need A TON of practical experience. The same goes for both bf3 and wow. True, true, true. And I'll get that when I have enough skills to actually be part of the prowl. Like in carpentry you measure twice before sawing. I don't jump head first into situations, I'm more a tactician. I watch, observe, learn and then do. And that's a learning style. We all learn differently. Some are hands on, others prefer to read first. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
Prince Kobol 818	Posted - 2013.06.30 07:18:00 - [151] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants. Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink. Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you. THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS Isn't it horrible when somebody blows up your space pixels...
Paul Otichoda Perkone Caldari State 8	Posted - 2013.06.30 07:27:00 - [152] - Quote Bruce Kemp wrote: Paul Otichoda wrote: basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants. Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink. Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you. THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS Tracking disrupters and other e-war kid, use them. They can mess up a 10 year players guns,lock range,targeting, Kite, deeps, disrupt,jam,damp, take your pick. I can't do that because if I load up on e-war I don't have enough weapons to take down the enemy. I would try to find a corp but the recruitment system in this game is so difficult to use. Especially on the forum, why couldn't they have slip advertisment from requests.
Kaarous Aldurald ROC Academy The ROC 341	Posted - 2013.06.30 07:30:00 - [153] - Quote Quote: I can't do that because if I load up on e-war I don't have enough weapons to take down the enemy. >.< E-war goes in the mid slots. Guns go in the high slots. There aren't enough facepalm jpgs in the world for this, so I can only assume we are being trolled. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Paul Otichoda Perkone Caldari State 8	Posted - 2013.06.30 07:34:00 - [154] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Quote: I can't do that because if I load up on e-war I don't have enough weapons to take down the enemy. >.< E-war goes in the mid slots. Guns go in the high slots. There aren't enough facepalm jpgs in the world for this, so I can only assume we are being trolled. yes but my power and CPU max out and I can't use shield extenders/afterburners/weapons/e-war systems at the same time
Ace Uoweme Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 330	Posted - 2013.06.30 07:35:00 - [155] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: I can't do that because if I load up on e-war I don't have enough weapons to take down the enemy. You wouldn't need too. You either saved your hide (as now he can't hit you either); or you delayed him long enough for backup to arrive. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
Bruce Kemp Autarky The Autonomy 48	Posted - 2013.06.30 07:37:00 - [156] - Quote Sarton Wells wrote: I'm not sure you understood my point. In eve (unlike most mmorpgs) what matters most is player skills and social contacts. And by the time you gain those you'll have your character skills at the needed level for what you want to do. Just to put in context with wow (since you seem to love to compare eve with theme park mmos) - in WoW a lvl 90 character can defeat an unlimited amount of lvl 10 players. You can send 1000 lvl 10 players and they'll die instantly. In eve 2-3 less than a month old players can cause an unlimited amount of damage to a 10 years old character. It all depends on how you play them. Thank god i have never played WOW
Paul Otichoda Perkone Caldari State 8	Posted - 2013.06.30 07:41:00 - [157] - Quote Ace Uoweme wrote: Paul Otichoda wrote: I can't do that because if I load up on e-war I don't have enough weapons to take down the enemy. You wouldn't need too. You either saved your hide (as now he can't hit you either); or you delayed him long enough for backup to arrive. one problem, I don't have any back up I would try to find a corp but the tools avaliable aren't that helpful
Kaarous Aldurald ROC Academy The ROC 341	Posted - 2013.06.30 07:41:00 - [158] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Quote: I can't do that because if I load up on e-war I don't have enough weapons to take down the enemy. >.< E-war goes in the mid slots. Guns go in the high slots. There aren't enough facepalm jpgs in the world for this, so I can only assume we are being trolled. yes but my power and CPU max out and I can't use shield extenders/afterburners/weapons/e-war systems at the same time Dude. Get someone to teach you about fitting. Ewar replaces shield mods. They work on a different principle. E-war is more useful than shields when facing a single target, or when fighting in groups (because most ewar besides target painting multipies in usefulness with the number of people using it). Shield extenders, in fact most defensive mods, are more useful than ewar if you are taking damage from more than one source. But, Frigates don't have much defense anyway, no matter how much you tank them. This gave rise to wolfpack style tactics in which frigates use ewar in groups to debuff opponents. And you should always fit a prop mod. No one is saying to use every single mod on e-war. And if your powergrid and cpu max out, you need to improve your fitting skills, and downgrade your guns. If you were using 200mm autocannons, downgrade to 150s, or 125s. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Kaarous Aldurald ROC Academy The ROC 341	Posted - 2013.06.30 07:42:00 - [159] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: Ace Uoweme wrote: Paul Otichoda wrote: I can't do that because if I load up on e-war I don't have enough weapons to take down the enemy. You wouldn't need too. You either saved your hide (as now he can't hit you either); or you delayed him long enough for backup to arrive. one problem, I don't have any back up I would try to find a corp but the tools avaliable aren't that helpful How are the tools not helpful? You can look up every single corp in the game from the game client. There is also a forum on this site for it. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=265 Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Ace Uoweme Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 330	Posted - 2013.06.30 07:47:00 - [160] - Quote Bruce Kemp wrote: Sarton Wells wrote: I'm not sure you understood my point. In eve (unlike most mmorpgs) what matters most is player skills and social contacts. And by the time you gain those you'll have your character skills at the needed level for what you want to do. Just to put in context with wow (since you seem to love to compare eve with theme park mmos) - in WoW a lvl 90 character can defeat an unlimited amount of lvl 10 players. You can send 1000 lvl 10 players and they'll die instantly. In eve 2-3 less than a month old players can cause an unlimited amount of damage to a 10 years old character. It all depends on how you play them. Thank god i have never played WOW It's not that crazy, but like EvE is skill based, WoW is gear based. And you see me here now because heroic raiders can out pewpewpew PvPers in their PvP gear. Worked all that time for CP gear, only to have one patch to give PvE geared players not only a whopping 65% resilience, even more power than your specific gear can provide. -_- That's like in EvE T2 ships are nerfed so T1 shipped players can blow them up...1v1. All that skill time went to waste. All so PvPers can get some more "victims". Yeah, at PvPers expense. Not a happy time in PvP in WoW now. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
Leper ofBacon HELP GRANDMA SMASH HER LEGS IN 31	Posted - 2013.06.30 07:47:00 - [161] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Quote: I can't do that because if I load up on e-war I don't have enough weapons to take down the enemy. >.< E-war goes in the mid slots. Guns go in the high slots. There aren't enough facepalm jpgs in the world for this, so I can only assume we are being trolled. yes but my power and CPU max out and I can't use shield extenders/afterburners/weapons/e-war systems at the same time www.battleclinic.com Just go look at some loadouts, it's all possible if you're actually willing to learn. Also, look at all the other posters in this thread who are all in corps. You just have to make a very brief social connection and then bang you're in a corp within like 5 more clicks.
Paul Otichoda Perkone Caldari State 8	Posted - 2013.06.30 07:47:00 - [162] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Paul Otichoda wrote: Ace Uoweme wrote: Paul Otichoda wrote: I can't do that because if I load up on e-war I don't have enough weapons to take down the enemy. You wouldn't need too. You either saved your hide (as now he can't hit you either); or you delayed him long enough for backup to arrive. one problem, I don't have any back up I would try to find a corp but the tools avaliable aren't that helpful How are the tools not helpful? You can look up every single corp in the game from the game client. There is also a forum on this site for it. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=265 I did make a thread on that forum: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=253992&find=unread it sank without a reply also my main annoyance with the ingame corporation finder is that it lacks a location limit so you get results from people on the other side of the map.
Kaarous Aldurald ROC Academy The ROC 341	Posted - 2013.06.30 07:53:00 - [163] - Quote People aren't going to do everything for you. Yeah, it might tell you a corp halfway across the map. So? Done that plenty of times myself. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Eugene Kerner TunDraGon Drunk 'n' Disorderly 739	Posted - 2013.06.30 08:07:00 - [164] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants. Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink. Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you. THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS You made yourself a friend here....I will probably ask my locator agent some questions... "Also, your boobs " -á CCP Eterne, 2012
Ace Uoweme Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 331	Posted - 2013.06.30 08:14:00 - [165] - Quote Eugene Kerner wrote: You made yourself a friend here....I will probably ask my locator agent some questions... From your looks, I take it the agent is male and likes the rough trade................... "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
Eugene Kerner TunDraGon Drunk 'n' Disorderly 739	Posted - 2013.06.30 08:18:00 - [166] - Quote Ace Uoweme wrote: Eugene Kerner wrote: You made yourself a friend here....I will probably ask my locator agent some questions... From your looks, I take it the agent is male and likes the rough trade................... he does, he does "Also, your boobs " -á CCP Eterne, 2012
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 10452	Posted - 2013.06.30 09:39:00 - [167] - Quote Robert Saint wrote: Malcanis wrote: Ace Uoweme wrote: Eternal Corrosion wrote: Go back to mine so we, the bad people, can kill you in your mining ship and harvest your tears with our t2 guns while we use our faction ammo. Also, go to manufacturing so i can buy a ship to kill you. Bad lowsec piwate o7 Meanwhile, have you seen this? https://robertsspaceindustries.com/about-the-game It'll be PvE. Won't have to worry about low self-esteem basement boys polluting space. Keep pushing and the only thing left for you to play with is some Goon bots. Sounds good. At least goon bots don't fill up the forum with nega-logic spergstorms Dude, your call sign says CSM does it not... aren't you here for the little people - - - all the little people, not just your Mafia? you should keep your own negative comment in control . . . . I was elected CSM precisely to defend against the kind of entirely unoriginal, fact-free, ass-backwards foolishness that people like Ace spout. There's nothing in the CSM White Paper that says I'm not allowed to enjoy doing so. 1 Kings 12:11
Jake Warbird Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 3082	Posted - 2013.06.30 10:30:00 - [168] - Quote Nega-logic spergstorms. I did vote for the right candidate. Muhahaha!
Doc Spectre Caldari Provisions Caldari State 7	Posted - 2013.06.30 10:50:00 - [169] - Quote After 4 years I'm still terrible at PVP. Plus I haven't done enough to consider my self experienced. But I still manage to have huge fun...Stick around, you won't regret it...
Paul Otichoda Perkone Caldari State 8	Posted - 2013.06.30 11:07:00 - [170] - Quote Doc Spectre wrote: After 4 years I'm still terrible at PVP. Plus I haven't done enough to consider my self experienced. But I still manage to have huge fun...Stick around, you won't regret it... but I'm just not sure if I will stay around The pvp is beginning to put me off the game. The basic design is fun but I'm really lacking any thing to do. I'm not in a corp because I can't find one that looks good so I don't really have any support. I'm just training up my skills randomly trying to do everything and yet nothing really seems to be really changing things up. I'm still a tech 1 but I'm not sure if tech 2 will really change things and since pvp ships die very quickly I don't want to waste money on this I don't know how to use. All I do is mine and then go and get blown up by someone so much better than me.
Delta Jax Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 43	Posted - 2013.06.30 11:12:00 - [171] - Quote Hi, Just wanted to stop by and say that in EvE, knowing how to play the game, not just knowing but understanding, is far more powerful than just the meta level of your guns or the size of your ship. Take it from me, I've killed frigates, cruiser, and even a battleship with an iteron Mk5. Twitter : -á@DeltaJax
Delta Jax Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 44	Posted - 2013.06.30 11:16:00 - [172] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: Doc Spectre wrote: After 4 years I'm still terrible at PVP. Plus I haven't done enough to consider my self experienced. But I still manage to have huge fun...Stick around, you won't regret it... but I'm just not sure if I will stay around The pvp is beginning to put me off the game. The basic design is fun but I'm really lacking any thing to do. I'm not in a corp because I can't find one that looks good so I don't really have any support. I'm just training up my skills randomly trying to do everything and yet nothing really seems to be really changing things up. I'm still a tech 1 but I'm not sure if tech 2 will really change things and since pvp ships die very quickly I don't want to waste money on this I don't know how to use. All I do is mine and then go and get blown up by someone so much better than me. Well HTFU and find a corp, the only reason you're sucking is your refusal to learn how to play the game and get help. Twitter : -á@DeltaJax
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3751	Posted - 2013.06.30 11:21:00 - [173] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: I'm not in a corp Paul Otichoda wrote: I don't really have any support. Paul Otichoda wrote: I'm just training up my skills randomly trying to do everything Paul Otichoda wrote: All I do is mine and then go and get blown up by someone so much better than me. EVE Online: Harsh and cold, or Darwinian mechanism design in an MMO setting? There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over. TEST Defence, Please Ignore
Minmatar Citizen160812 The LGBT Last Supper 326	Posted - 2013.06.30 13:24:00 - [174] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: Doc Spectre wrote: After 4 years I'm still terrible at PVP. Plus I haven't done enough to consider my self experienced. But I still manage to have huge fun...Stick around, you won't regret it... but I'm just not sure if I will stay around The pvp is beginning to put me off the game. Will probadly go back to missioning with a diferent destroyer or something. You're going back to something alright...
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 10461	Posted - 2013.06.30 13:30:00 - [175] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: Doc Spectre wrote: After 4 years I'm still terrible at PVP. Plus I haven't done enough to consider my self experienced. But I still manage to have huge fun...Stick around, you won't regret it... but I'm just not sure if I will stay around The pvp is beginning to put me off the game. The basic design is fun but I'm really lacking any thing to do. I'm not in a corp because I can't find one that looks good so I don't really have any support.I'm just training up my skills randomly trying to do everything and yet nothing really seems to be really changing things up. I'm still a tech 1 but I'm not sure if tech 2 will really change things and since pvp ships die very quickly I don't want to waste money on this I don't know how to use. All I do is mine and then go and get blown up by someone so much better than me. Will probadly go back to missioning with a diferent destroyer or something. Have you considered trying to do anything differently, or are you just going to give up? 1 Kings 12:11
Paul Otichoda Perkone Caldari State 8	Posted - 2013.06.30 13:34:00 - [176] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Paul Otichoda wrote: Doc Spectre wrote: After 4 years I'm still terrible at PVP. Plus I haven't done enough to consider my self experienced. But I still manage to have huge fun...Stick around, you won't regret it... but I'm just not sure if I will stay around The pvp is beginning to put me off the game. The basic design is fun but I'm really lacking any thing to do. I'm not in a corp because I can't find one that looks good so I don't really have any support.I'm just training up my skills randomly trying to do everything and yet nothing really seems to be really changing things up. I'm still a tech 1 but I'm not sure if tech 2 will really change things and since pvp ships die very quickly I don't want to waste money on this I don't know how to use. All I do is mine and then go and get blown up by someone so much better than me. Will probadly go back to missioning with a diferent destroyer or something. Have you considered trying to do anything differently, or are you just going to give up? I'll try to do something else, perhaps exploration
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 10461	Posted - 2013.06.30 14:14:00 - [177] - Quote Good man.There's always a way and people who don't give up at the first setback are the ones who thrive in this game. 1 Kings 12:11
Short Stack122 Noblesse Oblige. Cult of War 3	Posted - 2013.06.30 14:41:00 - [178] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: Doc Spectre wrote: After 4 years I'm still terrible at PVP. Plus I haven't done enough to consider my self experienced. But I still manage to have huge fun...Stick around, you won't regret it... but I'm just not sure if I will stay around The pvp is beginning to put me off the game. The basic design is fun but I'm really lacking any thing to do. I'm not in a corp because I can't find one that looks good so I don't really have any support. I'm just training up my skills randomly trying to do everything and yet nothing really seems to be really changing things up. I'm still a tech 1 but I'm not sure if tech 2 will really change things and since pvp ships die very quickly I don't want to waste money on this I don't know how to use. All I do is mine and then go and get blown up by someone so much better than me. Will probadly go back to missioning with a diferent destroyer or something. alright, 9 pages and you are still stuck with your head in the sand. The reason you're not having fun? YOU! you are standing in your own way. These corps you keep finding halfway across the galaxy, JOIN ONE! these skills you're "training at random", train with some thought! you are probably the most stubborn headed, "ive got the be the biggest gun or else i wont do anything", self centered player i have ever read. honestly. if you are not having a good time and 9 pages of players are telling you that it probably has to do with XYZ and you keep telling them that you refuse to do XYZ, then there is NO help for you. either take some of the advice or go back to virtually "lifting things up and putting them down"
Delt0r Garsk Tartarus Legion Domination.. 0	Posted - 2013.06.30 14:56:00 - [179] - Quote Well i am pretty new to the game. I have been playing for 5 months. My wife has been playing for 2 months. So i feel a little qualified as a new player. My wife 2x so. First of all i didn't really want to use all the skill tools on the internet, so i just skilled up what looked like fun. I am 6M now but this is a very un optimal 6M sp. My wife is about 1.5M since she has never bothered with implants at all. Sure we mission together and stuff. Kill rats etc. But i have the most fun PvP. We run sites in low and null sometimes and can take cheap ships. (Rifters are AWESOME!) We went out on our first roam the other day with the corp i am in. Its in the wrong time zone so its not perfect, but these guys are great with newbs, even flying back several gates in null to get my wife when she got lost. She found it very .... nerve racking. I loved it. We got a 2 good kills worth more than 2x the fleet before getting bubbled. And half the fleet got away. I suck at it. But will get better. When i solo or its just me and my brother, or my wife. We just go for it. So when you have a 1.5M isk rifter. You get any kill your going to be a 90% pilot for a long time! (its called my c fit for cheap. I don't always use t2 guns even! still can rat kill). We got jumped (yes i know watch the dscan) when we were running a site by a daredevil. I didn't know anything about them, but i had my first Jaguar assault frig and my wife with a rifter in both PvP fits. I guess he would have expected PvE fits. Well we are new so he did get us both since i didn't know about the web bonus he gets and the PvE towers did 50% of the damage. But he was in hull when we died, which probably caused him/her to have a "oh crap" moment. Recon a little more frosty on the dscan and we could have had a great kill. I don't want first time players to be the same as the vets. Its not fair and then there is no reason to ever be a vet. Right now there is a good balance of playability for new players with so many things to build up for while being rewarding for vets as well. For max fun. Find a good corp or just group of people. Despite the reputation of eve being a really unfriendly galaxy, its mostly untrue. Outside of scamers most people are helpful and at least honest about if there corp is newb friendly. Even with a few weeks of skills you can be useful in a fleet. And still do some lowsec and even null sec if you look at the star map properly. The corridors have the camps. I hate to think how hard eve was when it first came out without all the internet sites and things to help you. Respect the Vets. Even after they podded you and +70M of implants. (yes it happened to me, because of lag!). Also i don't understand why so many complain about cash flow. A poorly skilled BC pilot can do lvl 3 missions pretty easy for the most part. I get between 5M-10M in loot and bounties per mission for the good ones. Average around 3M. I can do a few an hour. A bit of highsec PI on the side (about 4M a day before oxygen prices went down ) and i have cash to burn. The plex from getting my wife to sign up didn't hurt either.
Retrillion Iron Mongers Yulai Federation 2	Posted - 2013.06.30 14:58:00 - [180] - Quote ok so you start a game, as a noob then you think that you should be as good as someone who has been playing the game for like 5-7 years HTFU and just play the game stop crying on the forum cause you cant kill a bc in your t1 frig... just enjoy the game and fly with a corp or a group of friends it makes stuff more fun solo pvp is hard if you can even find it so dont complain cause itll just kill the game for yourself we were all there once... Ret
Paul Otichoda Perkone Caldari State 9	Posted - 2013.06.30 15:18:00 - [181] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: I'll try to do something else, perhaps exploration Quick update on this, decided to jump into a wormhole after scanning it. Got my ship instant killed by a sleeper, then as I attempted to attack in the pod to sucided another 2 players came along and killed the drones. And then killed me for purely existing. overall rather annoying but kind of fun.
Chin MonWang Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2013.06.30 16:06:00 - [182] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants. Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink. Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you. THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS Interesting comment that is: my proposal is the following (possibly already mentioned): next to the existing PvP (= kinds of arts requiring much anticipation before the actual fight: battleclinic..load-outs etc.)..maybe next to the existing one there should be a second type of PvP competative characteristics of which: 1) Players use exactly the same ships (same frigates, I propose) 2) Players have to use exactly the same load-outs and ammunition. This will make such a second type of PvP pretty competative for all easily. And since PvP takes place using the same frigates only some skills "core competency" to be trained...but that can be done fast There will of course remain some differences whereas navigation (=speed) and gunnery concerned but these can be overcome and the influence of those are more marginal. And last: to make it even more competative and challenging for also new players one could add PvP skill-classifications: 0-2500 2500-5000 5000-7500 etc. Such a second type of PvP would no doubt make it more challenging for also the new players: being possible to play PvP on the same grounds and open outcome. Interesting to think about.
Ckra Trald Stellar Essence STELLAR CONSTELLATION 204	Posted - 2013.06.30 16:17:00 - [183] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: Victoria Sin wrote: Paul Otichoda wrote: basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants. Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink. Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you. THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS Get into a T1 frigate with T1 fittings and join RvB (make sure you keep plenty of spares). why should I bother wasting my time on pvp when I can just go back to mining where I can actually make money and feeling like I'm doing something. In PvP I feel like nothing. Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: Somebody losed a duel..... No I spend the night going round faction warfare systems trying to find a frigate to fight against and got instant killed in all cases. Then got gate camped and pod killed. You see why I'm not having fun join factional warfare and swim in good LP rewards and PvP at the same time. assuming you have good control like 150% or something you can earn 100-200mil per hour with a manticore ^^ poorly made blunt forum post above ^^
Paul Otichoda Perkone Caldari State 9	Posted - 2013.06.30 16:27:00 - [184] - Quote Ckra Trald wrote: Paul Otichoda wrote: Victoria Sin wrote: Paul Otichoda wrote: basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants. Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink. Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you. THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS Get into a T1 frigate with T1 fittings and join RvB (make sure you keep plenty of spares). why should I bother wasting my time on pvp when I can just go back to mining where I can actually make money and feeling like I'm doing something. In PvP I feel like nothing. Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: Somebody losed a duel..... No I spend the night going round faction warfare systems trying to find a frigate to fight against and got instant killed in all cases. Then got gate camped and pod killed. You see why I'm not having fun join factional warfare and swim in good LP rewards and PvP at the same time. assuming you have good control like 150% or something you can earn 100-200mil per hour with a manticore I tried using a kesteral in FW space ,it didn't go well https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=253514&find=unread I've trained rigs so its bit better but not much
SmokinDank Horizon Research Group 6	Posted - 2013.06.30 16:30:00 - [185] - Quote 10 pages and you haven't learned how to fly a frigate yet? Must be real easy to prove a point when all you have to do is fail
Spurty 902	Posted - 2013.06.30 16:35:00 - [186] - Quote Join corp Go roam in fleet of 20 Find lamer 1v1 hero Alpha them Wait for tears on forums (no tears, assume they cried a lot on their corp comms) Be smug Profit (probably not as your corp Mate with salvagers and tractor beams that joins every fleet in a rifter got the isk --- GÇ£If you think this Universe is bad, you should see some of the others.GÇ¥ GÇò Philip K. ****
BoSau Hotim Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated 5844	Posted - 2013.06.30 16:40:00 - [187] - Quote Understand that there is a learning curve to every game. Some people call this a learning cliff in Eve. Maybe start changing your mindset to "I can" or " I will be able to soon" instead of all these " I can't do this, I can't do that, I don't like this" etc etc. Maybe try Eve University first and learn from them. I'm not a carebear... I'm a SPACE BARBIE!-á Now... where's Ken?
Chin MonWang Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2013.06.30 16:48:00 - [188] - Quote SmokinDank wrote: 10 pages and you haven't learned how to fly a frigate yet? Must be real easy to prove a point when all you have to do is fail Well, the point he made about PvP in relation to acquired skillpoints no doubt is an objective/valid one. So, creating PvP catagories (flying all standard frigates and standard modules/ammunition) would make it more competitive and attractive for new players. Something to realy think upon: thus a 2nd Pvp-sytem next to the existing one. I myself now have acquired 26.3 mn skill points..and withing 3 months I reach the stage that I can fly all frigates and all existing cruisers (caldari) and Tengu under the optimal conditions (= skill points level 5 + core-competency elite)....and my reasons/goals for acquiring such is defenitely not striving for easy winnings in PvP against new players (that would realy be silly and unfair). So, I propose PvP catagory-sytem (based skill-points) for the new players, they would much like more competitive PvP..that is for sure. So, interesting to think upon such a brainstorming suggestion I made (especially when you realize that I myself do not need it, I morely would advacate such for the new players). And last: don't we all want to see EVE going beyond 1 million players/subscibers in time! (I for one would very much like such happened!)
Yusef Brion Big Yellow Pidgeon Inc. 9	Posted - 2013.06.30 16:53:00 - [189] - Quote Ace Uoweme wrote: Mocam wrote: Over time you'll learn to recognize which are threats and which are safer and after you've learned this, then try the soloing stuff but always remember those roots of sticking with others and when to run... But you also can learn that from YouTube, in the safety of your station and not having to spend ISK on lost gear, and save it for skill books, too. What you can learn of the basics you can watch online. So when you're ready to join the schools of sharks for better meals, you can, with teeth sharp enough to bite the other fish's head off, then eat it whole. You can't learn how and when to press the right buttons, position the windows on your screen, or where your eyes should be flicking by watching a youtube video leaning back in the station. I doubt you will even learn why the ship featured is fitted as such, or what skills it takes to make it possible and effective. Moreover, the OPs main problem is his refusal to learn the lessons from his losses. Or heed any of the advice given here. Hell, I've learned a lot just from this thread. But then, WoW WoW Blizzard WoW Blizzard Blizzard WoW. So you've got me on that point.
Zappity Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 158	Posted - 2013.06.30 18:30:00 - [190] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: Paul Otichoda wrote: I'll try to do something else, perhaps exploration Quick update on this, decided to jump into a wormhole after scanning it. Got my ship instant killed by a sleeper, then as I attempted to attack in the pod to sucided another 2 players came along and killed the drones. And then killed me for purely existing. overall rather annoying but kind of fun. Yes, wormholes are very unforgiving. Try high and lowsec exploration sites first. You will want a covert ops frigate ASAP for low. Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.")
Paul Otichoda Perkone Caldari State 9	Posted - 2013.06.30 18:35:00 - [191] - Quote Zappity wrote: Paul Otichoda wrote: Paul Otichoda wrote: I'll try to do something else, perhaps exploration Quick update on this, decided to jump into a wormhole after scanning it. Got my ship instant killed by a sleeper, then as I attempted to attack in the pod to sucided another 2 players came along and killed the drones. And then killed me for purely existing. overall rather annoying but kind of fun. Yes, wormholes are very unforgiving. Try high and lowsec exploration sites first. You will want a covert ops frigate ASAP for low. I've been trying and haven't found much. Found one relic site but didn't get anything good from it. And I've spent 2 hours running around doing nothing as I scan targets that turn into wormholes that I can't use. It takes me 20 minute to scan down one location and sometimes it just vanishes. This route just doesn't seem to give you anything at this level.
Mocam EVE University Ivy League 287	Posted - 2013.06.30 20:59:00 - [192] - Quote Ace Uoweme wrote: Mocam wrote: Over time you'll learn to recognize which are threats and which are safer and after you've learned this, then try the soloing stuff but always remember those roots of sticking with others and when to run... But you also can learn that from YouTube, in the safety of your station and not having to spend ISK on lost gear, and save it for skill books, too. What you can learn of the basics you can watch online. So when you're ready to join the schools of sharks for better meals, you can, with teeth sharp enough to bite the other fish's head off, then eat it whole. No, you really can't learn "doing" from "watching". It takes participation and interaction. All you'll gain from watching is theory and ideas. PvP takes a feel for it by situation. e.g. you may watch a lot of fights but that won't prep you for those incoming punches. It takes participation to get a feel for it and each encounter tends to differ.
Zappity Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 158	Posted - 2013.06.30 21:43:00 - [193] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: Zappity wrote: Paul Otichoda wrote: Paul Otichoda wrote: I'll try to do something else, perhaps exploration Quick update on this, decided to jump into a wormhole after scanning it. Got my ship instant killed by a sleeper, then as I attempted to attack in the pod to sucided another 2 players came along and killed the drones. And then killed me for purely existing. overall rather annoying but kind of fun. Yes, wormholes are very unforgiving. Try high and lowsec exploration sites first. You will want a covert ops frigate ASAP for low. I've been trying and haven't found much. Found one relic site but didn't get anything good from it. And I've spent 2 hours running around doing nothing as I scan targets that turn into wormholes that I can't use. It takes me 20 minute to scan down one location and sometimes it just vanishes. This route just doesn't seem to give you anything at this level. Have a look at Sir Livingston's youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mc6hn3t5Dw He has some videos about the new exploration system which might be useful. I think competition in highsec is high so you might be better off in lowsec. Better rewards too apparently. Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.")
Ace Uoweme Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 335	Posted - 2013.06.30 21:47:00 - [194] - Quote Mocam wrote: e.g. you may watch a lot of fights but that won't prep you for those incoming punches. It takes participation to get a feel for it and each encounter tends to differ. Let me introduce you to -- Tankspot... http://www.tankspot.com/forumdisplay.php?206-Project-Marmot-TankSpot-Raid-Movie-Guides When you're raised well, and on a diet of videos, yes you will be good when you get into an encounter from the knowledge. It's not just theory (theory is like Elitist Jerks, where they do the math and sims). TankSpot is the default place to go for all raid encounter info for all roles, and if you're a competitive raider you're even expected to study them (don't waste players time otherwise). So I do understand what you're saying but one size fits all training doesn't work, because there's many ways to train than just be cannon fodder for a month or longer, wasting time and resources. Your method is to be gank fodder to gain experience, mine is to study mechanics; strats and situations via videos first as it's most efficient. When I first started in EvE I spent the nights listening in on the gate coms with the vets. That's how I learned about protecting territory, and how it's done. A visual idea wasn't needed, what was is when A occurs what do you do (that FC was the best, he could rattle off the numbers and do the napkin math just like a RL pilot). It's like how other professionals learn, be it a ATC or a pilot even (you realize they don't just jump into a 767 and fly it, they must put time in simulators and classroom instruction). So don't worry, I'll learn and learn well. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
Chessur Life of lively full life thx to shield battery 74	Posted - 2013.06.30 21:52:00 - [195] - Quote You should totally PM me, for I will show you the art of PvP. Come fly with me and my homies, and learn from some of the best in small gang PvP
Fenix Caderu Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2013.06.30 22:09:00 - [196] - Quote Ok instead of adding more flames against you, here's the key - like I said earlier, it's just your mindset that needs to change, not the game mechanics. SP is a huge factor and modules too, but the biggest factor is experience. Nothing tops it. You CANNOT get that from vids... The vids will not tell you exactly when to orbit, to approach, to kite, or to use your ewar. It can't tell you how well you tank certain situations. You have to learn this from experience. You have to find the "sweet spots" at web range, disruptor range, scram range, etc that work for your play style. You have to actually fight ppl to get used to that. Some of my alts are years old but I have still lost ships to new players just because I had the wrong ship and they had the right one. No matter how much SP you have, if you have an AB fit brawler ship and get kited by a fast MWD nano ship with dps, you are helpless in 1 v 1 and if u cant warp off, youre dead no matter how much sp you have. Unless you have drones, but that won't last long. There's lots of ways noobs can get kills on even the oldest players...that's just one of em. Target selection. Mindset. Practice. Go.
Gallowmere Rorschach Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats 283	Posted - 2013.06.30 23:15:00 - [197] - Quote Ace Uoweme wrote: Mocam wrote: e.g. you may watch a lot of fights but that won't prep you for those incoming punches. It takes participation to get a feel for it and each encounter tends to differ. Let me introduce you to -- Tankspot... http://www.tankspot.com/forumdisplay.php?206-Project-Marmot-TankSpot-Raid-Movie-Guides When you're raised well, and on a diet of videos, yes you will be good when you get into an encounter from the knowledge. It's not just theory (theory is like Elitist Jerks, where they do the math and sims). TankSpot is the default place to go for all raid encounter info for all roles, and if you're a competitive raider you're even expected to study them (don't waste players time otherwise). So I do understand what you're saying but one size fits all training doesn't work, because there's many ways to train than just be cannon fodder for a month or longer, wasting time and resources. Your method is to be gank fodder to gain experience, mine is to study mechanics; strats and situations via videos first as it's most efficient. When I first started in EvE I spent the nights listening in on the gate coms with the vets. That's how I learned about protecting territory, and how it's done. A visual idea wasn't needed, what was is when A occurs what do you do (that FC was the best, he could rattle off the numbers and do the napkin math just like a RL pilot). It's like how other professionals learn, be it a ATC or a pilot even (you realize they don't just jump into a 767 and fly it, they must put time in simulators and classroom instruction). So don't worry, I'll learn and learn well. The problem with TankSpot is that it is generally used as a source for raiding knowledge, and raid mechanics are usually few in number (even compared to Eve frigate combat), and all they can teach is "watch for this, and this is about to happen", basically. It doesn't really work that way in Eve PvP. People do unexpected stuff all of the time. I've seen people use armor tanked bait Merlins, for example. I've also seen people do silly stuff (that would seem like a terrible idea at first) like compromise their entire fit on a frigate to put on 2 MASBs, but the rest of their fit doesn't matter much when you can't even remotely dent their tank while they plink you to death. Comparing Eve PvP to a TankSpot video would only be accurate if raid bosses had the potential to change their behavior and mechanics at random. Some do, to a very small degree (and people ***** about RNG in WoW all of the time), but it's still nowhere near the same level of "WTF just happened?"
Kaarous Aldurald ROC Academy The ROC 353	Posted - 2013.06.30 23:44:00 - [198] - Quote Quote: The problem with TankSpot is that it is generally used as a source for raiding knowledge, and raid mechanics are usually few in number Yes, yes they are. Don't stand in fire. Swap at 5 stacks of whatever debuff the boss uses. Repeat until boss is dead or you are. If boss is dead: Loot. If you are dead: Yell at your dps. That's how you be a tank. (to establish qualifiers for this, I mained a raid tank for 7 years full heroic ICC too, until I realized WoW was ********) Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Zhade Lezte 117	Posted - 2013.06.30 23:46:00 - [199] - Quote PVP, and eve in general, is totally unfair for new players, and that makes overcoming the odds all the more satisfying. That's probably not gonna change OP, it's part of what makes Eve as cold and harsh as it is. There are certainly Other Games if this bad game is not the game for you, and I personally don't mind if you decide it isn't.
Ace Uoweme Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 335	Posted - 2013.06.30 23:59:00 - [200] - Quote Gallowmere Rorschach wrote: The problem with TankSpot is that it is generally used as a source for raiding knowledge, and raid mechanics are usually few in number (even compared to Eve frigate combat), and all they can teach is "watch for this, and this is about to happen", basically. It doesn't really work that way in Eve PvP. People do unexpected stuff all of the time. I've seen people use armor tanked bait Merlins, for example. I've also seen people do silly stuff (that would seem like a terrible idea at first) like compromise their entire fit on a frigate to put on 2 MASBs, but the rest of their fit doesn't matter much when you can't even remotely dent their tank while they plink you to death. Comparing Eve PvP to a TankSpot video would only be accurate if raid bosses had the potential to change their behavior and mechanics at random. Some do, to a very small degree (and people ***** about RNG in WoW all of the time), but it's still nowhere near the same level of "WTF just happened?" You're taking it literally. I posted about TankSpot to show you the media a WoW player uses to keep tabs. EvE doesn't have the addons and such for monitoring. My WoW UI looks like a 747 cockpit, as I'm a healer and I have to monitor the situation (you realize what role I eventually will play in EvE, right? Not logics, command because that's what I have done for years and enjoy it). And I single handily healed a current level 25 man raid that the healers just all died but me, a tank and 1 DPS with 30% of the boss health left (want to talk about close shaves???). Oh, I know all about the unconventional (like 10k mana cycle healing fail groups and raids). Why? Because I study and study well. When others are calling for a wipe, I show them it can be done (and sometimes I am the only one alive to get the job done). I'm not your typical player. I realize players can even armor tank a Drake (put 1+1 together it's not rocket science). Those are tactics. Once you learn what you can do and when, you can figure out how to fit what for a situation. If you specialize you can be really unconventional (and I like that). Most of the work is figuring out WHAT you can do and HOW and WHEN. Those things you don't need direct hands on experience. Hands on experience is like mega fleets, because that is difficult to simulate or watch on a video (too many things in the background), but I won't be doing those things for a while as I study. Still working on the Drake and pushing what it can do, and experimenting with fits both in EFT and in practice. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
Oxandrolone Bite Me inc Bitten. 193	Posted - 2013.07.01 00:22:00 - [201] - Quote Join a PvP corp who already knows what they are doing, you dont have to reinvent the wheel and figure everything out for yourself
Eram Fidard Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 168	Posted - 2013.07.01 01:54:00 - [202] - Quote I read this post this morning, decided not to reply, then I got home this evening, and look! IT'S STILL A TERRIBLE ******* POST.
SmilingVagrant GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1797	Posted - 2013.07.01 06:05:00 - [203] - Quote I will joust with you noble space knight.
Ace Uoweme Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 335	Posted - 2013.07.01 06:08:00 - [204] - Quote SmilingVagrant wrote: I will joust with you noble space knight. When EvE's PvP is affordable; not a bot haven and friendly to 1v1. The jousting then will be more widespread! "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
Xercodo Xovoni Astronautical Manufacturing and Engineering 2476	Posted - 2013.07.01 08:22:00 - [205] - Quote I was on a live stream a week ago where I fit up a T1 tormentor using all meta 0 modules and I killed an incursus and a rifter, podded the rifter pilot too. :D The Drake is a Lie
Kaarous Aldurald ROC Academy The ROC 354	Posted - 2013.07.01 08:27:00 - [206] - Quote Ace Uoweme wrote: SmilingVagrant wrote: I will joust with you noble space knight. When EvE's PvP is affordable; not a bot haven and friendly to 1v1. The jousting then will be more widespread! You're doing it wrong if PvP isn't affordable to you, because a whole BUNCH of guys that I know, and occasionally myself, just throw away ships and laugh about it. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Maybelater Headache Republic University Minmatar Republic 74	Posted - 2013.07.01 09:17:00 - [207] - Quote Spurty wrote: Join corp Go roam in fleet of 20, at least 4 Falcons , one Arazu and a Rapier Find lamer 1v1 hero Alpha them Wait for tears on forums (no tears, assume they cried a lot on their corp comms) Be smug Profit (probably not as your corp Mate with salvagers and tractor beams that joins every fleet in a rifter got the isk Fixed it for you.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 10471	Posted - 2013.07.01 09:21:00 - [208] - Quote Ace Uoweme wrote: SmilingVagrant wrote: I will joust with you noble space knight. When EvE's PvP is affordable; not a bot haven and friendly to 1v1. The jousting then will be more widespread! What kind of industrialist cant afford T1 cruisers? 1 Kings 12:11
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 10471	Posted - 2013.07.01 09:23:00 - [209] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: Zappity wrote: Paul Otichoda wrote: Paul Otichoda wrote: I'll try to do something else, perhaps exploration Quick update on this, decided to jump into a wormhole after scanning it. Got my ship instant killed by a sleeper, then as I attempted to attack in the pod to sucided another 2 players came along and killed the drones. And then killed me for purely existing. overall rather annoying but kind of fun. Yes, wormholes are very unforgiving. Try high and lowsec exploration sites first. You will want a covert ops frigate ASAP for low. I've been trying and haven't found much. Found one relic site but didn't get anything good from it. And I've spent 2 hours running around doing nothing as I scan targets that turn into wormholes that I can't use. It takes me 20 minute to scan down one location and sometimes it just vanishes. This route just doesn't seem to give you anything at this level. IIRC there are ways to filter your results. 1 Kings 12:11
Skawl Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore 41	Posted - 2013.07.01 09:30:00 - [210] - Quote Peter Raptor wrote: Ive played over 3 years, and have never got a kill, but been killed plenty of times, I joined a corp, and soon contributed to about 9 kills, moral of the story, Eve is about team work, if you wanna solo pvp get a corp to teach you, so you still need a corp. This. Most of the time, if you're trying to solo PvP, the only people who will engage you either have a massive amount of training/fitting superiority (and probably offgrid boosing alts) or have support waiting to come in. You can still win fights but you'll need zen like levels of patience waiting for the right targets (and the knowledge of what is the right target for what you are flying). In small/med gangs, newbros can shine. Get your navigation and prop jamming skills up a bit and a small roaming gang will love your ability to stop people running away. Get your cap skills and remote shield/armor transfer skills trained and small gangs will love that you keep them of the field even when the odds are against them. Get your ECM / sensor damp skills up and your gang will love your ability to take other ships out of the fight. Get those trained and you have a decent amount of versatility for PvP. The good news is that since the recent ship rebalacing, the tech 1 varieties of these ships are pretty awesome so you can give each of these roles a try without investing massive amounts of SP. You can then specialise in the one(s) you enjoy most to get to the tech 2 ships and modules.
Harry Forever SpaceJunkys 184	Posted - 2013.07.01 12:55:00 - [211] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants. Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink. Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you. THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS honestly i have to say it really sucks, lost 10-20 ships until i brought my first opponent down, however as soon as that happens it will start to be fun, maybe fly with me and my team, we go to VFK and kick some goons in the butt, some old players some new, no skill is needed except maybe a T1 cloak device... I'm not older then 3 month in the game as well, however its doable... OMG! the asteroid is depleted!
Bort Malice VINING ENGINEERING AND SALVAGE TEAM Turing Tested 7	Posted - 2013.07.01 13:31:00 - [212] - Quote TEST tried to gank me last night. They outnumbered me 5 to one, and similarly outgunned me. My brain was bigger however and by practising DvP (Denial vs Player Combat) I defeated them.
Jarod Garamonde Action Bastards 283	Posted - 2013.07.01 13:32:00 - [213] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants. Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink. Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you. THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS I had less than 2.5 mil SP when I got my first kill. And, bigger ship doesn't always equal better than smaller. In fact, it RARELY does. "you can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose."-á --áBienator II
Gallowmere Rorschach Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats 293	Posted - 2013.07.01 13:38:00 - [214] - Quote Jarod Garamonde wrote: Paul Otichoda wrote: basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants. Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink. Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you. THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS I had less than 2.5 mil SP when I got my first kill. And, bigger ship doesn't always equal better than smaller. In fact, it RARELY does. Bigger only=better when you are shooting at structures...christ those things have a lot of HP.
Jarod Garamonde Action Bastards 284	Posted - 2013.07.01 13:50:00 - [215] - Quote Gallowmere Rorschach wrote: Jarod Garamonde wrote: Paul Otichoda wrote: basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants. Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink. Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you. THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS I had less than 2.5 mil SP when I got my first kill. And, bigger ship doesn't always equal better than smaller. In fact, it RARELY does. Bigger only=better when you are shooting at structures...christ those things have a lot of HP. Rookie Ships can fit all the equipment needed to send an orbital bombardment for our DUSTbunny friends. In under a week, any pilot can have all the skills they need to tackle a target for their corpmates. You need only be able to use combat scan probes, fit a cloak, and be able to withstand one cycle from a large smartbomb, and you can kill Marauders in highsec mission pockets... that can be done within the first month. Duelling is a valid PvP pursuit, and honestly... that's the only fair PvP there is, if you do it right. The other guy meets your terms, or you don't accept. If you're observant enough, there can be no surprises except for fittings, and nobody else can interfere. You can start that from the first hour after your toon is "born". I could keep going. "you can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose."-á --áBienator II
Jarod Garamonde Action Bastards 284	Posted - 2013.07.01 13:52:00 - [216] - Quote But my real point is..... EVE, much like real life, ain't supposed to be fair. Get used to it, or give me all your stuff, and I'll paste the link to Aion for you. Embrace the unfair. Love the unfair. Become one with the unfair. Revel in it. That's how bittervets are created. "you can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose."-á --áBienator II
don santo 43	Posted - 2013.07.01 14:02:00 - [217] - Quote It does not take long to train up t2 small guns and frigates. The problem also seems to be you went to faction warfare solo. faction warfare is a group effort. If you want to solo go gank ratters or bait mission runners. Eve Coalition Map
Gallowmere Rorschach Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats 295	Posted - 2013.07.01 14:08:00 - [218] - Quote don santo wrote: It does not take long to train up t2 small guns and frigates. The problem also seems to be you went to faction warfare solo. faction warfare is a group effort. If you want to solo go gank ratters or bait mission runners. You can get some decent solo action in FW, you just have to develop a feel for calling it. As an example, I saw a Condor sitting outside my novice plex for a good two to three minutes. Something about it didn't feel right, so I aligned out. As soon as he entered the plex and started yellowboxing me, his five man gankwagon jumped in system, so I warped out. Luckily for me, their timing was terrible, as they didn't actually wait for him to point me. I suppose they were worried that they wouldn't make the 15 AU warp before my Firetail melted the Condor....oh, and the fact that a Condor was willing to engage a Firetail that was already in a plex was a pretty big giveaway too.
Ranger 1 Ranger Corp 4327	Posted - 2013.07.01 14:46:00 - [219] - Quote I too would like to have the win/loss record of an ace pilot... without actually spending the time necessary to learn the personal skills to become one. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base.
Ramona McCandless The McCandless Clan Turing Tested 511	Posted - 2013.07.01 14:47:00 - [220] - Quote Wait How can something that is competitive be fair? If competitions were fair They would constantly be draws Tell The Others
Verunae Caseti Viziam Amarr Empire 8	Posted - 2013.07.01 14:49:00 - [221] - Quote Bort Malice wrote: TEST tried to gank me last night. They outnumbered me 5 to one, and similarly outgunned me. My brain was bigger however and by practising DvP (Denial vs Player Combat) I defeated them. Last confirmed kill: 05/20/12 19:51:00 Yeah, this totally happened.
Gallowmere Rorschach Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats 296	Posted - 2013.07.01 14:49:00 - [222] - Quote Ranger 1 wrote: I too would like to have the win/loss record of an ace pilot... without actually spending the time necessary to learn the personal skills to become one. I have over 90% efficiency, due to being carried by my corp, because I am a terribad. It's almost like this isn't a single player game or something. vOv (No, that wasn't a direct jab at your comment, it just inspired me to say that, so I quoted it.)
Ace Uoweme Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 336	Posted - 2013.07.01 14:54:00 - [223] - Quote Skawl wrote: Peter Raptor wrote: Ive played over 3 years, and have never got a kill, but been killed plenty of times, I joined a corp, and soon contributed to about 9 kills, moral of the story, Eve is about team work, if you wanna solo pvp get a corp to teach you, so you still need a corp. This. Most of the time, if you're trying to solo PvP, the only people who will engage you either have a massive amount of training/fitting superiority (and probably offgrid boosing alts) or have support waiting to come in. You can still win fights but you'll need zen like levels of patience waiting for the right targets (and the knowledge of what is the right target for what you are flying). In small/med gangs, newbros can shine. But that's the fun part, solo PvP. When you can ace another 1v1 that a thrill. It's even better if you can kill a group solo. That's why I'm in no rush to pewpewpew in a destroyer as some webber/scrambler. Spending the time to skill up and study instead. It's no different than what I did in WoW. I'm a healer the #1 target, but I'll flag myself taking flags and waiting for a juicy target (like a overconfident rogue). Most memorable PvP I had is when a rogue comes out, can't lock down, and I cream him on pure skill alone (as I have no DPS as a healer). I'll save the grouping for things like incursions (as they're like raids). But PvP, I'll be looking for targets, juicy targets. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 10477	Posted - 2013.07.01 14:57:00 - [224] - Quote Verunae Caseti wrote: Bort Malice wrote: TEST tried to gank me last night. They outnumbered me 5 to one, and similarly outgunned me. My brain was bigger however and by practising DvP (Denial vs Player Combat) I defeated them. Last confirmed kill: 05/20/12 19:51:00 Yeah, this totally happened. er, I think he means he ran away. 1 Kings 12:11
Bort Malice VINING ENGINEERING AND SALVAGE TEAM Turing Tested 9	Posted - 2013.07.01 14:59:00 - [225] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Verunae Caseti wrote: Bort Malice wrote: TEST tried to gank me last night. They outnumbered me 5 to one, and similarly outgunned me. My brain was bigger however and by practising DvP (Denial vs Player Combat) I defeated them. Last confirmed kill: 05/20/12 19:51:00 Yeah, this totally happened. er, I think he means he ran away. Yes I ran away! DvP: DENIAL of player combat. I dont waste my ships in one sided PVPs I dont win! Which is all of them, as Veruca Castment there pointed out, Im not very good at killing folk.
Seven Koskanaiken Clan Steel Wolves 238	Posted - 2013.07.01 15:10:00 - [226] - Quote Gallowmere Rorschach wrote: [quote=don santo]...oh, and the fact that a Condor was willing to engage a Firetail that was already in a plex was a pretty big giveaway too. In zero sum games where all players are assumed to be rational actors the optimal strategy is to refuse all offers one's opponents make voluntarily a.k.a...it's a trap.
Ace Uoweme Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 336	Posted - 2013.07.01 15:15:00 - [227] - Quote Bort Malice wrote: Malcanis wrote: Verunae Caseti wrote: Bort Malice wrote: TEST tried to gank me last night. They outnumbered me 5 to one, and similarly outgunned me. My brain was bigger however and by practising DvP (Denial vs Player Combat) I defeated them. Last confirmed kill: 05/20/12 19:51:00 Yeah, this totally happened. er, I think he means he ran away. Yes I ran away! DvP: DENIAL of player combat. I dont waste my ships in one sided PVPs I dont win! Which is all of them, as Veruca Castment there pointed out, Im not very good at killing folk. From what I know of TEST, they're quite easy to kill. Null corp I was in was farming them pretty regularly as it is. They regarded them as n00bs. So chances are you could've killed them. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
Bort Malice VINING ENGINEERING AND SALVAGE TEAM Turing Tested 9	Posted - 2013.07.01 15:20:00 - [228] - Quote Ace Uoweme wrote: From what I know of TEST, they're quite easy to kill. Null corp I was in was farming them pretty regularly as it is. They regarded them as n00bs. So chances are you could've killed them. Possibly, but my weapons weren't in any way tailored for PvP and with a cyno up , that in my mind gives them a maximum fleet size of the entire alliance, so like all combat, I didnt want to risk it when I could just leave the battlefield.
Alundil Seniors Clan Get Off My Lawn 214	Posted - 2013.07.01 15:28:00 - [229] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants. Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink. Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you. THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS Learn the mechanics of the various ships you may choose to fly. Learn the mechanics of the various ships you may choose to engage. Learn the mechanics of the weapons systems employed on each. Armed with that knowledge, don't engage what you should (at that point) know will kill you 1v1. If you don't know how to get this data, or where to start, then ask questions like a mature person seeking solutions as opposed to coming to the forums claiming "it's not fair....blah blah blah" Character age/SP is only a small facet of the meaningful conditions of PVP engagements (just a hint: it's not the most important part either)
Soylent Jade Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 7	Posted - 2013.07.01 15:47:00 - [230] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: why should I bother wasting my time on pvp when I can just go back to mining where I can actually make money and feeling like I'm doing something. In PvP I feel like nothing. Don't forget to buy your mining permit if you decide to do that. Making hisec better...one Catalyst at a time
Ramona McCandless The McCandless Clan Turing Tested 515	Posted - 2013.07.01 15:51:00 - [231] - Quote Soylent Jade wrote: Paul Otichoda wrote: why should I bother wasting my time on pvp when I can just go back to mining where I can actually make money and feeling like I'm doing something. In PvP I feel like nothing. Don't forget to buy your mining permit if you decide to do that. Also here is a free tear as I figure Paul is all cried out; . Enjoy Tell The Others
Norm Tempesta The Konvergent League Sev3rance 33	Posted - 2013.07.01 17:50:00 - [232] - Quote Gallowmere Rorschach wrote: Ranger 1 wrote: I too would like to have the win/loss record of an ace pilot... without actually spending the time necessary to learn the personal skills to become one. I have over 90% efficiency, due to being carried by my corp, because I am a terribad. It's almost like this isn't a single player game or something. vOv (No, that wasn't a direct jab at your comment, it just inspired me to say that, so I quoted it.) Haha, proviblob for the win.
Gallowmere Rorschach Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats 309	Posted - 2013.07.01 17:51:00 - [233] - Quote Norm Tempesta wrote: Gallowmere Rorschach wrote: Ranger 1 wrote: I too would like to have the win/loss record of an ace pilot... without actually spending the time necessary to learn the personal skills to become one. I have over 90% efficiency, due to being carried by my corp, because I am a terribad. It's almost like this isn't a single player game or something. vOv (No, that wasn't a direct jab at your comment, it just inspired me to say that, so I quoted it.) Haha, proviblob for the win. Provi? I fly in FW now, and was in Wicked Creek before that, and Querious before that.
Norm Tempesta The Konvergent League Sev3rance 33	Posted - 2013.07.01 17:54:00 - [234] - Quote Gallowmere Rorschach wrote: Norm Tempesta wrote: Gallowmere Rorschach wrote: Ranger 1 wrote: I too would like to have the win/loss record of an ace pilot... without actually spending the time necessary to learn the personal skills to become one. I have over 90% efficiency, due to being carried by my corp, because I am a terribad. It's almost like this isn't a single player game or something. vOv (No, that wasn't a direct jab at your comment, it just inspired me to say that, so I quoted it.) Haha, proviblob for the win. Provi? I fly in FW now, and was in Wicked Creek before that, and Querious before that. I was agreeing with you about the value of corpmates. We are known around here for blobbing, I guess.
Gallowmere Rorschach Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats 310	Posted - 2013.07.01 18:05:00 - [235] - Quote Norm Tempesta wrote: I was agreeing with you about the value of corpmates. We are known around here for blobbing, I guess. Ohhh, I gotcha. Yeah, I've had some interesting fights in Provi before when wormholes were kind to my alliances. I remember going over there in a frig/kitchen sink roam once, and getting met by Drakes with Rapid Light Missile Launchers fit. I was not expecting a Drake to be able to kill a Punisher in just a few volleys. xD
Paul Otichoda Perkone Caldari State 10	Posted - 2013.07.01 19:24:00 - [236] - Quote Update I've ditched the Kestrel, its just too weak to engage in pvp with support and gone over to the merlin. That is much better, can actually equib a warp jammer and still tank. Also got into a good fight with a frigate as well. Seem to have tech 1 weapons and was probadly a new player like me. Was able to get him an orbit where I was damaging him more than me. He was active armour tanking and I think I was about to exhaust his capacitor. It was at this point that he burned away from me outside my warp jammer range and escaped. Now that was actually kind of fun and not just a hopeless fight. Wish there where more people like that on the battlefield. might try the condor next.
Bloodpetal Sal's Waste Management and Pod Disposal The Mockers AO 1298	Posted - 2013.07.01 19:42:00 - [237] - Quote Ok. Let's have a discussion with which you can relate. If this is world of warcraft and your nubby level 2 character tried to attack a level 80 character with mad lootz. Who would win? Ya, ok. Now, here's the difference from your little world of warcraft mentality. If you get yourself a decent PVP crew. Destroy any egocentric narcissistic attitude, humble yourself and learn to fight properly, you can learn to be a better player and wipe any semblance of advantage that "skill points" give. There is a reason when you join the real military, they shave you down, they work your ass into submission until you have nothing left to make you feel like a special little butterfly. EVE isn't about how you're a special butterfly. It's about being a rabid blood thirsty rabbit dug into a (worm) hole armed only with the razor ship buck teeth you honed on the corpses of your victims. If you're lucky enough. Where I am.
Gallowmere Rorschach Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats 315	Posted - 2013.07.01 19:51:00 - [238] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: Update I've ditched the Kestrel, its just too weak to engage in pvp with support and gone over to the merlin. That is much better, can actually equib a warp jammer and still tank. Also got into a good fight with a frigate as well. Seem to have tech 1 weapons and was probadly a new player like me. Was able to get him an orbit where I was damaging him more than me. He was active armour tanking and I think I was about to exhaust his capacitor. It was at this point that he burned away from me outside my warp jammer range and escaped. Now that was actually kind of fun and not just a hopeless fight. Wish there where more people like that on the battlefield. might try the condor next. Condor works very similar to the Kestrel. It shines best when used as a kiter. If brawling is more your style, stick with something like the Merlin or blaster Incursus. Or hell, if you want a decent tank as well as the ability to kite, try a rail Incursus or the Tristan. Oh, make sure to use a scrambler and web, not a disruptor on brawler ships. If you can't shut off a kiter's MWD, they will quickly get out of range of your blasters, then just proceed to spend five minutes making you feel stupid as they plink you to death from 20+km away.
Ramona McCandless The McCandless Clan Turing Tested 529	Posted - 2013.07.01 19:53:00 - [239] - Quote Gallowmere Rorschach wrote: Paul Otichoda wrote: Update I've ditched the Kestrel, its just too weak to engage in pvp with support and gone over to the merlin. That is much better, can actually equib a warp jammer and still tank. Also got into a good fight with a frigate as well. Seem to have tech 1 weapons and was probadly a new player like me. Was able to get him an orbit where I was damaging him more than me. He was active armour tanking and I think I was about to exhaust his capacitor. It was at this point that he burned away from me outside my warp jammer range and escaped. Now that was actually kind of fun and not just a hopeless fight. Wish there where more people like that on the battlefield. might try the condor next. Condor works very similar to the Kestrel. It shines best when used as a kiter. If brawling is more your style, stick with something like the Merlin or blaster Incursus. Or hell, if you want a decent tank as well as the ability to kite, try a rail Incursus or the Tristan. Oh, make sure to use a scrambler and web, not a disruptor on brawler ships. If you can't shut off a kiter's MWD, they will quickly get out of range of your blasters, then just proceed to spend five minutes making you feel stupid as they plink you to death from 20+km away. I recommend Bantam " Ramona McCandless, you're my hero." - Domanique Altares, Rifterlings, Point Blank Alliance Tell The Others
Gallowmere Rorschach Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats 316	Posted - 2013.07.01 20:03:00 - [240] - Quote Ramona McCandless wrote: I recommend Bantam I couldn't figure out why I knew that ship name, yet couldn't recall what it did. Then I looked it up....bwahahahahahahalogifrig. Yeah, that was a good idea, on paper.
Private Pineapple Tea And Sympathy Ltd. Liability Reckless Ambition 373	Posted - 2013.07.01 20:07:00 - [241] - Quote When I read the topic title I facedesked... Trolling EVE forums since 2006.
Gallowmere Rorschach Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats 316	Posted - 2013.07.01 20:08:00 - [242] - Quote Private Pineapple wrote: When I read the topic title I facedesked... Is that what happened to your avatar's hair?
Kijo Rikki Powder and Ball Alchemists Union The Predictables 431	Posted - 2013.07.01 20:11:00 - [243] - Quote When I look at his avatar, all I hear is "soon" in a stereotypical homosexual's voice. (No offense, bros! I didn't know the most PC way to type what I'm thinking.)
Ramona McCandless The McCandless Clan Turing Tested 535	Posted - 2013.07.01 20:30:00 - [244] - Quote Kijo Rikki wrote: When I look at his avatar, all I hear is "soon" in a stereotypical homosexual's voice. (No offense, bros! I didn't know the most PC way to type what I'm thinking.) I dont even know what you mean the way you said it that time either! " Ramona McCandless, you're my hero." - Domanique Altares, Rifterlings, Point Blank Alliance Tell The Others
Private Pineapple Tea And Sympathy Ltd. Liability Reckless Ambition 374	Posted - 2013.07.01 20:45:00 - [245] - Quote Gallowmere Rorschach wrote: Private Pineapple wrote: When I read the topic title I facedesked... Is that what happened to your avatar's hair? Kijo Rikki wrote: When I look at his avatar, all I hear is "soon" in a stereotypical homosexual's voice. (No offense, bros! I didn't know the most PC way to type what I'm thinking.) my reply to the both of you Trolling EVE forums since 2006.
Gallowmere Rorschach Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats 320	Posted - 2013.07.01 20:48:00 - [246] - Quote Private Pineapple wrote: my reply to the both of you Oh...my...god....it's like I'm getting the Burt stare from an overly tanned Eminem.

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