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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |

Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
127
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 15:12:00 -
[301] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:Soldarius wrote:Omens are fine. Lrn2pvp If by fine you mean worse at its given job than all other cruisers, sure.
That's surprising. I always thought of the omen as the third great T1 Cruiser, settling behind the Vexor, followed by the caracal, followed by the Omen, followed by the Thorax. It's maybe cause I never flew it armortanked. Guess that way, it would be crap.
I only correct my own spelling. |

Erutpar Ambient
Real Nice And Laidback Corporation Black Core Alliance
58
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 20:14:00 -
[302] - Quote
What I would like to see is ammo changes for medium weapons. I want to see highest damage ammo give no range modifications, instead energy and tracking(or gun sig since its a bigger modifier?) penalties. This way your optimal rage on your gun is the best damage, but as ships get closer you lose the ability to project damage on them.
Then your ship will be a long range ship instead of multiple range damage tiers. Just like it should be :) |

Ronny Hugo
Dark Fusion Industries Limitless Inc.
10
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 21:33:00 -
[303] - Quote
+1. @ original post. The T2 ammo needs a revamp though, having just 2 for each weapon seems backwards, why not have T2 ammo as something even better than each of the normal T1 ammos (and better than faction T1, but same damage, not counting T2 ammo skill)? So T2 gamma crystals, T2 multifrequency etc. As a suggestion to how the T2 could be better; better cap bonuses would do nicely for T2 beam and pulse crystals. But a clean-up in the amount of turrets would be nice, there are too many tier-ish options. One should do one thing best, another should do another thing best. So Tachyons should be medium to long range damage dealers, another beam should be medium to long-range cap-stable damage dealer, another beam should be short-medium range damage dealers (then with more damage than tachyons, but the same tracking as tachyons), etc. Or different ones (these are just suggestions). PS: Tachyons are epic weapons as is, but the ammo cap bonuses mean you can realistically only fight at ranges around 100km with large tachyons, everywhere else you can cycle the gun enough times to kill anything. So a slight adjustment of the cap bonuses to reflect beam and pulse use would be nice (beams get less cap use at long to medium range, pulse get less cap use from medium to short range). A fun idea I wonder if it would work, is if it would be somehow possible to have cap penalties on pulses on long ranges, and cap penalties on beams on short ranges, but then have a more flat distribution of damage on all ranges. Don't know what the equivalent bonus for projectiles and hybrids would be though. At least an idea to store for later. |

Veng3ance
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
18
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 03:53:00 -
[304] - Quote
Great changes all around! Thx CCP! |

Luscius Uta
Unleashed' Fury Forsaken Federation
51
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 08:40:00 -
[305] - Quote
Tracking nerf on Rails is pretty big (even though it can be compensated by replacing falloff bonus on all ships that have it with a tracking bonus, but I don't expect that to happen), and +15% RoF increase seems nice only until you realize that Hybrids are the only weapon system consuming both cap and ammo. I would remove both of those changes but increase damage bonus to 20 or 25%. |

Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1025
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 09:45:00 -
[306] - Quote
Luscius Uta wrote:Tracking nerf on Rails is pretty big (even though it can be compensated by replacing falloff bonus on all ships that have it with a tracking bonus, but I don't expect that to happen), and +15% RoF increase seems nice only until you realize that Hybrids are the only weapon system consuming both cap and ammo. I would remove both of those changes but increase damage bonus to 20 or 25%.
Mandatory cap booster+cargo full of ammo/charges and eventually cap booster/ammo truck, imho this might be fun for small engagements and yadaya but as soon as you have to stay on the field this brings nothing fun but tedious, cap chain from logistics ships already overpowered or have dedicated ones for that on top of cap booster management etc, how can someone thing this is fun gaming or adds anything interesting?
It's nothing but tedious and boring, logistics pain and uninteresting game play. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |

Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
268
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 09:52:00 -
[307] - Quote
I'm wondering what is the point of using medium rails on a ship that has a tracking bonus when your guns tracking penalty is working against you?
Also heavy missiles should be buffed as they had their dps lowered by 10% last year to match medium guns now with a buff to the afore mentioned medium guns dps and rate of fire it's high time the HM nerf was reversed. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |

Akimo Heth
State War Academy Caldari State
30
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 13:25:00 -
[308] - Quote
Luscius Uta wrote:Tracking nerf on Rails is pretty big (even though it can be compensated by replacing falloff bonus on all ships that have it with a tracking bonus, but I don't expect that to happen), and +15% RoF increase seems nice only until you realize that Hybrids are the only weapon system consuming both cap and ammo. I would remove both of those changes but increase damage bonus to 20 or 25%.
Technically lasers do too, nobody uses T1 crystals. |

Scuzzy Logic
Midnight Elites United Federation of Commerce
45
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 19:50:00 -
[309] - Quote
Akimo Heth wrote:Luscius Uta wrote:Tracking nerf on Rails is pretty big (even though it can be compensated by replacing falloff bonus on all ships that have it with a tracking bonus, but I don't expect that to happen), and +15% RoF increase seems nice only until you realize that Hybrids are the only weapon system consuming both cap and ammo. I would remove both of those changes but increase damage bonus to 20 or 25%. Technically lasers do too, nobody uses T1 crystals.
The thing is, Scorch is just plain OP. I have no clue how to fix it without making it Conflagration clone, but as long as that Crystal allows me to shoot at beam ranges, I'm going to fit pulses.
Now that I think about it, does anyone use medium or small gleam? I've only ever used it for POS shooting... |

Akimo Heth
State War Academy Caldari State
30
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 19:54:00 -
[310] - Quote
Scuzzy Logic wrote:Akimo Heth wrote:Luscius Uta wrote:Tracking nerf on Rails is pretty big (even though it can be compensated by replacing falloff bonus on all ships that have it with a tracking bonus, but I don't expect that to happen), and +15% RoF increase seems nice only until you realize that Hybrids are the only weapon system consuming both cap and ammo. I would remove both of those changes but increase damage bonus to 20 or 25%. Technically lasers do too, nobody uses T1 crystals. The thing is, Scorch is just plain OP. I have no clue how to fix it without making it an instantly-reloading Void clone, but as long as that Crystal allows me to shoot at beam ranges, I'm going to fit pulses. Now that I think about it, does anyone use medium or small gleam? I've only ever used it for POS shooting...
I'm not sure it's a problem with Gleam specifically, its just that small/medium beam aren't very useful. I also don't think its Scorch's fault, it's just that beam's are too much of an ass ache to fit and take far too much cap that Scorch becomes a default choice if you want to do something else, tank and tackle for instance, with your powergrid and capacitor. |

Sub Tzero
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.27 00:44:00 -
[311] - Quote
From a small scale lowsec PVP perspektive, HMs will not become any worse with this change, because there is no comparative to "utterly useless". The number of targets whos tank you can break with HMs solo is already zero. |

Luscius Uta
Unleashed' Fury Forsaken Federation
51
|
Posted - 2013.07.28 10:28:00 -
[312] - Quote
Akimo Heth wrote:
Technically lasers do too, nobody uses T1 crystals.
Not in PvP, but nobody uses Medium Rails in PvP either :)
|

Aglais
Liberation Army
306
|
Posted - 2013.07.28 16:40:00 -
[313] - Quote
Luscius Uta wrote:
Not in PvP, but nobody uses Medium Rails in PvP either :)
And nobody will after this 'rebalance' either. |

Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
392
|
Posted - 2013.07.28 18:27:00 -
[314] - Quote
. delete |

Javius Rong
Sigillum Militum Xpisti Fatal Ascension
7
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 00:00:00 -
[315] - Quote
The changes look good for medium LR turrets.
I see a bunch of people complaining about HML balance being out of wack with these changes. I am not sure that the raw DPS is off for HML but their ability to apply DPS rapidly and against Cruiser sized targets. I would like to see HMs get an increase in their velocity by +25% with a corresponding -25% to flight time, on top of that increase the HMs explosion velocity by +25% for better damage application. |

Akimo Heth
State War Academy Caldari State
30
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 02:09:00 -
[316] - Quote
Javius Rong wrote: The changes look good for medium LR turrets.
I see a bunch of people complaining about HML balance being out of wack with these changes. I am not sure that the raw DPS is off for HML but their ability to apply DPS rapidly and against Cruiser sized targets. I would like to see HMs get an increase in their velocity by +25% with a corresponding -25% to flight time, on top of that increase the HMs explosion velocity by +25% for better damage application.
So you say they can apply dps rapidly against cruisers but then call for a exp velocity buff? |

Drake Doe
SVER True Blood
246
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 02:51:00 -
[317] - Quote
Akimo Heth wrote:Javius Rong wrote: The changes look good for medium LR turrets.
I see a bunch of people complaining about HML balance being out of wack with these changes. I am not sure that the raw DPS is off for HML but their ability to apply DPS rapidly and against Cruiser sized targets. I would like to see HMs get an increase in their velocity by +25% with a corresponding -25% to flight time, on top of that increase the HMs explosion velocity by +25% for better damage application.
So you say they can apply dps rapidly against cruisers but then call for a exp velocity buff? He's saying he thinks that the raw damage they can do probably isn't the problem, but the application is. A little punctuation goes a long way. "The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! *pops more corn*" ---Evernub-- |

Cofalib
RESURGENCY
14
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 04:12:00 -
[318] - Quote
I have a concern, that I am not sure is valid, since I haven't tested the values myself yet, but how are medium rails, with the RoF and Damage increase, gonna compared to PULSE LASERS. As medium pulse right now is fairly low on DPS, and only seems to be used for It's nice range dictation.
Since rails will have that same range dictation, with a nice damage increase because of this change, I feel that medium PULSE lasers may start to get over shadowed as a nice mix of range and damage, and people will simply opt for medium rail ships.
If anyone has tested the numbers, and compared these 2 gun types, I would appriciate an answer.
Edit: Just to clarify, I understand pulse lasers will not be changed, and that beams are getting a buff as well, I'm just wondering if the medium rail buff will kinda just walk over what medium pulse currently do. |

Mariner6
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
170
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 13:48:00 -
[319] - Quote
Cofalib wrote:I have a concern, that I am not sure is valid, since I haven't tested the values myself yet, but how are medium rails, with the RoF and Damage increase, gonna compared to PULSE LASERS. As medium pulse right now is fairly low on DPS, and only seems to be used for It's nice range dictation.
Since rails will have that same range dictation, with a nice damage increase because of this change, I feel that medium PULSE lasers may start to get over shadowed as a nice mix of range and damage, and people will simply opt for medium rail ships.
If anyone has tested the numbers, and compared these 2 gun types, I would appriciate an answer.
Edit: Just to clarify, I understand pulse lasers will not be changed, and that beams are getting a buff as well, I'm just wondering if the medium rail buff will kinda just walk over what medium pulse currently do.
Pulse with lolscorch will still be in a very good place because of the difference between pulse tracking and rail tracking. Those pulses apply solid damage all the way from scorch range all the way in tight and with the insta crystal change ability its really powerful as you can project damage far out, hit reliably, and very quickly up the damage if/when you targets gets in close. |

Gabriel Karade
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
112
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 18:35:00 -
[320] - Quote
Sort of on/off topic but what the heck....
It's time to admit that new tracking 'physics' is required with a new formula: she's done alright has the old girl [tracking formula], but hasn't been updated since early 2004 when the signature resolution vs signature radius modification was added. It's now 2013....
There's loads that it currently can't handle, ship physical sizes being one glaring emission for example ("oh god, its blotting out the sun, we can't possibly miss.... oh wait"), ship rotation/ predictable orbits to name but two more.
A new formula would give new ways to open up the field to balance all guns including the 'low tier' guns that currently don't have purpose. It would also remove the need for 'hacky' solutions such as the bolt on for Titan guns.
If you don't update the core physics of tracking you'll be left with less and less wriggle room for balancing.
Gallente MkII: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1227770 War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293 |

Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1046
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 10:24:00 -
[321] - Quote
Aglais wrote:Luscius Uta wrote:
Not in PvP, but nobody uses Medium Rails in PvP either :)
And nobody will after this 'rebalance' either.
With a 15% tracking nerf knowing they already track badly the only hulls worth fitting those are still Thorax and Proteus but in most pvp situations a blaster or rails Talos will be far better anyway. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |

Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
122
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 13:18:00 -
[322] - Quote
Rejig to the tracking formula would be great. I'd love it to take into account constant broadside shots whilst orbiting in the right ship and fix a lot of the weird niggles we have ingame already. Would be a huge change to make though |

Edward Olmops
Sirius Fleet Cerberus Unleashed
86
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 14:31:00 -
[323] - Quote
But now for something (almost) completely different:
If all Medium Long Range Weapons get a Damage buff... what about Heavy Missiles? Will they fall behind now? Or did you do the HM nerf already with this turret buff in mind so they will end up even? |

Sarkelias Anophius
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
28
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 16:48:00 -
[324] - Quote
FBL Mallers may actually be a thing. Interesting... |

J A Aloysiusz
Precision Strike Brigade Angeli Mortis
20
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 17:06:00 -
[325] - Quote
I have two issues with medium ranged weaponry:
-They're strongly overshadowed by attack BCs. Why fit out an Eagle, when you can fit a naga with twice the range and twice the DPS for half as much ISK? The 50% mwd sig bonus to HACs might help aid this to some degree, however I strongly doubt the Eagle will be able keep its sig below 400 without loki OGB (which is next on the chopping block!), thus it's not a reasonable counter. That being said, I do support the capacitor and speed bonuses in the HAC changes.
-The second is the fitting requirements (this primarily applies to the PWG rails). A prime example, the Deimos can't even fit neutrons with a 1600 plate, let alone 250mm rails, so it will either be a Heavy ship or an Assault ship, but not both ;D |

Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1053
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 19:01:00 -
[326] - Quote
J A Aloysiusz wrote:I have two issues with medium ranged weaponry:
-They're strongly overshadowed by attack BCs. Why fit out an Eagle, when you can fit a naga with twice the range and twice the DPS for half as much ISK? The 50% mwd sig bonus to HACs might help aid this to some degree, however I strongly doubt the Eagle will be able keep its sig below 400 without loki OGB (which is next on the chopping block!), thus it's not a reasonable counter. That being said, I do support the capacitor and speed bonuses in the HAC changes.
-The second is the fitting requirements (this primarily applies to the PWG of rails). A prime example, the Deimos can't even fit neutrons with a 1600 plate, let alone 250mm rails, so it will either be a Heavy ship or an Assault ship, but not both ;D
You can fit Deimost with 1600 and Neutrons, but you're giving away a rig slot for an ACR and fit AB only. It's a matter of CCP vision of ships and fittings, they rather force you to use fitting mods and rigs rather than fix things correctly and take a slot away, problem being a T1 does as better and once that fitting rig slot fitted they still have 2 left to improve dps and tank. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |

J A Aloysiusz
Precision Strike Brigade Angeli Mortis
20
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 20:21:00 -
[327] - Quote
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:J A Aloysiusz wrote:I have two issues with medium ranged weaponry:
-They're strongly overshadowed by attack BCs. Why fit out an Eagle, when you can fit a naga with twice the range and twice the DPS for half as much ISK? The 50% mwd sig bonus to HACs might help aid this to some degree, however I strongly doubt the Eagle will be able keep its sig below 400 without loki OGB (which is next on the chopping block!), thus it's not a reasonable counter. That being said, I do support the capacitor and speed bonuses in the HAC changes.
-The second is the fitting requirements (this primarily applies to the PWG of rails). A prime example, the Deimos can't even fit neutrons with a 1600 plate, let alone 250mm rails, so it will either be a Heavy ship or an Assault ship, but not both ;D You can fit Deimost with 1600 and Neutrons, but you're giving away a rig slot for an ACR and fit AB only. It's a matter of CCP vision of ships and fittings, they rather force you to use fitting mods and rigs rather than fix things correctly and take a slot away, problem being a T1 does as better and once that fitting rig slot fitted they still have 2 left to improve dps and tank.
ok big issue with your post there. It's either Deimos, or Diemost, not Deimost.
You're right though... On a ship with an MWD bonus, it takes dropping to an afterburner and using one of your two rig slots (why do t2's have only 2 rig slots anyway? Based on that pattern, T3's should have 1, not 3?!) to fit a reasonable tank+gank setup. Maybe I'll go post "diemost needs a pwg buff!" in the other thread. I think I will, actually... |

xHxHxAOD
Southern Cross Incorporated Flying Dangerous
3
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 01:30:00 -
[328] - Quote
should hvy missles not be buffed just a bit bc they were nerfed to be more in line the other med guns and such |

Aliventi
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
335
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 01:40:00 -
[329] - Quote
xHxHxAOD wrote:should hvy missles not be buffed just a bit bc they were nerfed to be more in line the other med guns and such No. If you look at the damage numbers they are in line with the medium long range guns. In other words, the medium long range guns were buffed to the current heavy missiles. Some numbers: Link "tbh most people don't care about removing local from highsec. They want it gone from nullsec. I want to be able to solo roam hunt without everyone knowing I am there without them actually seeing me jump through the gate. Effortless intel is bad." ~Me |

Alsyth
64
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 14:04:00 -
[330] - Quote
Put an Eagle/Zealot/Deimos/Muninn 50km from a nano cruiser (say vanilla cynabal. a new HAC will be even worse with signature bonus), fire -> maximum damage, no matter which direction the cruiser is facing, awesome transversal or not, etc.
Take a heavy missile, faction -> at 60km you won't hit because your missiles are too slow. Unless your ship has a bonus to velocity of missiles. -> at 40km you might hit. For 30% of maximum damage only. Take a usual non-nano cruiser, you still won't do more than 50%, even if he rushes towards you with no transversal.
"If the target is close missiles will hit better". Yes. How close though?
T2 hi-tracking (and hi-damage) ammo means arty/beam/rails will still do close to maximum damage to such a nano cruiser when he has top transveral at 20km. Things only get bad if you get caught under 20km and if the target manage to keep extremely hi transveral (and then, you failed hard and deserve to die :D ).
With missiles? No, even if he gets close and you use precision (low damage) a vanilla cynabal with no boost no snakes will not take more than half of your (very bad) dps. He does not even need to keep a good transversal!
Of course it's even worse with AB, against frigates, or signature bonused ships (HACs, Inties, Talwars, AFs). You simply cannot apply dps reliably to those unless they are heavily webbed and painted. With turrets, you only need a small instant of low transversal (and you can compensate that with your own speed when you know how to pvp) to hit for max damage (it's still hard to do on inties and AB frigs, but easy on everything else)
Here is the heavy missile problem: damage application is aweful even on unbonused, non-nano cruisers.
Add to this the aweful way CCP has to force all Caldari missile-using cruisers/BC in kinetic only damage... And you get the absolute worse weapon system for cruisers/BCs. |
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