Torpedos are unguided so atleast that would make sense.

Oh and by the way, there are Several Minerals in Eve that mankind dont even know so why its not simply possible that they can stand Antimatter and such things?

Just some thoughts.

Listening to a friend who ran Lvl 4's in a Tengu complain that he can now 'only' hit at 75 KM or so now, yeah, I'd say that HML's needed a bit of a nerf. The buffs to Medium Turrets should make them a viable option for both PVE & PVP, something that has been badly needed, especially for hybrids (a mission-fit rail Thorax has long been a joke, even with perfect skills in Gunnery).

Now, if you'd only do something about Blasters...

brb refitting ferox

also. Are you going to de-crap heavy missiles now? Before the reason you nerfed them was because you thought buffing all the long range turrets was too much "power creep". Fozzie? Any say on this?

RLMs do more DPS to MWDing battlecruisers than HAMs do if they have links, let alone heavies.

I don't think you quite understand how bad heavies are. There are battleships that take more damage from RLMs than HMLs if skirmish linked, even with no prop mod running.

Anyhow,
that worst thing that has ever come to EVE was the day somebody had that idea of missile tracking about six years ago.

Many missiles have a guidance system that need a target lock, so they don't miss and the payload makes sure, they get the job done.
Well 30.000 year from now mankind is becoming so stupid that they cannot invent a proper guidance system anymore and Titans can "speedtank" citadel torpedos, by accelaration - good times.

Torpedos are unguided so atleast that would make sense.

Oh and by the way, there are Several Minerals in Eve that mankind dont even know so why its not simply possible that they can stand Antimatter and such things?

Just some thoughts.

now that the other medium weapons are being buffed. and the reason for the heavy missile nerf is null and void. can we please get our 10% damage back? and like another 15-20km range?

i agree 120k is stupid for heavy's.. but so is this 50km crap...

oh and for the love of god add some more range to t2 missiles but more importantly make them apply better.. t2 missiles are pointless.

"HIT QUALITY" should not be a totally random number. The same variables should apply to this to some degree. If a ship is standing still and shooting a target of significant size the Qaulity should be on the high side a greater percentage of the time. How does one "Barely Scratch" a POCO in a stationary ship well within Optimal Range of its guns? Missles have no "Hit Quality" applied to them.

No heavy missles and only a marginal bonus to Arty? Ouch... The alpha on medium arty isn't all that strong unless you have absurd numbers. I am pretty sure most people have switched to using Arty Nado's. Honestly, if you see a group of snipe muninn's in space let me know! I love easy HAC kills!

Except that the other long range guns are getting a tracking nerf to compensate and Missiles will still apply their DPS just as well up close as at long range, meaning the Heavy Missile Nerf is still justified. In-fact now with Heavies vs any other long range medium turret you can close to short range and clean house.

Can't do that with Rails, Beams, or Arty.

Speaking of those, if you check the effective ranges on Rails, Beam Lasers, or Artillery you'll see that they're generally short of Heavy Missiles at that damage tier. Or to state that a little more plainly. If you fit these weapons for Heavy Missile ranges you don't get Heavy Missile damage, if you fit them for Heavy Missile damage you don't get Heavy Missile range.

As for the T2 missiles, you have the option of increased DPS application at the cost of a lot of range from Precision missiles (useful for small targets that don't have much range anyway). Or the ability to increase your weapon damage by ~1/3rd at the cost of some range and some damage application ability. This basically means you're shooting up about half a weapon class and means you do a lot of damage to Battleships.

If that's somehow useless then I a bit scared to see your idea of useful.

there are rigs for missile range and exp radius. I think it's reasonable that there should be low slot modules for missile range. low slot modules for explosion radius and velocity might be problematic but it's worth a thought experiment.

it would make the 5 lows on the nighthawk more interesting, and would probably make cruise missiles ridiculously overpowered, but...

1 missiles DONT apply their damage well. ESPECIALLY t2.. while its true the damage application is the same at 0-max range. failing to apply even half is still failing.. with a nighthawks application bonuses, level 4-5 skills and target painters on battlecruiser with an ab.. you hit HALF as hard as you would if you would just use standard noob t1 missiles(non faction).

magical numbers in fitting tools and the fitting dps counter be damned.

3 missiles dont get any kinda low or medium slots to help with tracking or damage application, rails, beams and arty do.. so cry me a river..

4 precision missiles??? HA HA HA HA HA look at the stats bro. basically the same or less damage then standard and faction missiles. less range.. and OMG WHAT IS THAT? SAME DAMAGE APPLICATION!... if their goal was to make them precisely useless. then MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! =) 11 extra exp velocity and 15 extra explosion radius is pretty damn pore for a precision missile. especially considering your normally hitting stuff for full effect anyway (which is jack **** now might i add) with t1 and faction missiles... so whats the point of them?

mm.. cruises got overbuffed

[quote=cade windstalker]


Then either use Precision Missiles (you know, the ones with better damage application) or use your standard T1 missiles... Fury are specialized T2 ammo and you don't use them against an ABing BC, you use them on a Battleship (preferably one that's not fitting a prop mod) to deal extra damage to that larger target.

thats the problem i have with them.. their suppose to be heavy damaging missiles... but they arent.
heavys are suppose to kill cruisers and battle-cruisers.. and you cant even use the t2 variant on ABing battleships... that combined with it skips 2 ship classes before it even starts applying anything. is pretty pathetic... t2 heavys are only really useful on a battleship or dreadnaught standing still, or pocos... and if im going after them ied rather use a blaster naga and kite...

dont even get me started on t2 cruise and torps.. oh dear god..

and rigs arent enough. it still needs those medium and low slot modules. i really hope ccp is serious and adds them..

i would like all 10% of my damage back. but i would be ok with 7.5% damage returning, like i said an extra 15-20k range with max skills.

5%-7.5% more application in each velocity and exp radius, would be very welcome with furys/rages t2s.

lastly i dont think cruise missiles got over buffed at all. i think the other long range weapons like (large rails) need to be brought upto-par with other long range weapons like cruise/artillery.

long range weapons shouldn't be useless.. they should kill things at range, as effectively as blasters/autocannons/torps do up-close. but if you get in close/under them, they shouldn't be-able to hit much. thus maintaining balance/purpose

Speaking of those, if you check the effective ranges on Rails, Beam Lasers, or Artillery you'll see that they're generally short of Heavy Missiles at that damage tier. Or to state that a little more plainly. If you fit these weapons for Heavy Missile ranges you don't get Heavy Missile damage, if you fit them for Heavy Missile damage you don't get Heavy Missile range.

There are going to be situations for one type of missile and then situations for another. Just because a missile does more damage against large targets doesn't mean you should use it against every such target. You have to use decision making the same way high damage short-range ammo for weapons is not always the best choice

*sigh* Had a large post, and the 'save' thing ate it.

Anyway, I did some BC fits up in EFT and used its DPS graphing function. Beams and Rails can equal or beat HML applied DPS vs cruisers, even when those cruisers have high transversal, and they can do it whilst cap-stable. Vs BCs and up HMLs are superior past ~35km. Vs. cruisers and smaller with little transversal beams and rails just own HMLs. Arty sucks for DPS, still.

HMLs are only superior to beams and rails for two things - <5km ranges (in which case why aren't you using short range weapons?), and long range sniping at large ships (for which we have ABCs). I don't think HMLS need a range buff (though I do miss the range my Drake once had), or a raw DPS buff, but they could use a buff to their ability to apply DPS to small and/or fast targets.

The problem is that the advantage to using the perfect T2 missile is fairly minor in most cases, and it's a 10s reload time to change over, so generally unless you're sure you'll only be shooting at one type of target for an entire magazine (admitedly not that long with torps or cruises, because they hold far too little ammo) it's not worth using T2 ammo - just use faction ammo for everything.

Will arti/autocannons get some close attention in near future?
What the one of their stated biggest advantages? Its diversity of damage types they can deliver... with t1/faction ammo. But not with t2, for some reason. We have t2 versions for only 2 t1 ammo types - AFAIR they are nuclear and fusion ones, and this effectively ties us to explosion/a little of kinetic damage type if choosing to use t2 ammunition.

And as for those that already in game, here is a quote from eve university's wiki:
"Hail does a lot of damage, on paper. Unfortunately it also cuts your tracking speed by 30% and falloff by 50%. (It also cuts your optimal by 50%, but you didn't want that optimal anyway, right?)
When fighting large, stationary targets, Hail may actually be useful. Generally, however, Hail's penalties mean that other ammunition will actually do more real, applied damage even if Hail offers the best on-paper damage. "
Quake t2 arty ammo has a similar reputation, and for good reason.

... along with T2 blaster ammo, conflagration and T2 missiles of all kinds....

...what's your point, sir?

I've submited corrections to this post after you've quoted it. My main point is that it should has its damage type diversity in t2 variants just as it has in t1. Blasters and lasers don't have such diversity from the start, for example. Under 'damage type' I mean exp/em/therm/kin.

On the other hand it's also possible that CCP took this into account in the original projectiles rebalance and the ammo would have to lose a bit of damage in order to gain that damage variation.

Also if you look at the actual damage dealt by various projectile ammo types you'll note that every single one deals at least some explosive or kinetic damage and most deal both, so this isn't that out of line for the weapons system at all.