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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
28
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Posted - 2013.08.14 05:41:00 -
[391] - Quote
No it means, all 3 sizes of longe range medium turrets. |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children
TOHA Conglomerate
122
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Posted - 2013.08.14 16:04:00 -
[392] - Quote
I have tried the new 250mm railguns on a deimos on SiSi.
There were some fitting issues, but in the end it worked out. They performed pretty well, putting down something like 300dps at 80km (spike + 2 tracking computers with alternate scripts) and 500dps at 20km (dual mag stabs).
I was concerned that the tracking would not work out but the deimos's range bonus and kiting speed seems to sort it out nicely.
Verdict: worked well. Railguns seem to me to be a viable weapons system, although I wonder whether spike M could use a buff to dps.
400 dps from a dual mag-stabbed deimos at 80km would make it more competitive with the ishtar + curators + 2x omni.
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Lord Distortion
The Great Harmon Institute Of Technology
Innovia Alliance
0
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Posted - 2013.08.15 21:50:00 -
[393] - Quote
I'd also like to add a Role Change within the Ranged Weapons themselfs or rather the changing of the Smaller ranged turrets.
Smallest;
Skirmish style, Designed for smaller/faster targets with less penetration & dps
Quad Light Lazor Beam, Dual 150mm rails, ( Dual 250mm Artillery? ) , Rapid Light Launcher,
Decent Range, Tracking and rate of fire with lowish dps.
Medium; Balanced with allowances for some fit
Larger; Glass Cannons
The Amarr Quad Light Lazor Beam; Has 9k range and low fitting requirements... yet all but the droneboats depend on lazor performance( 25% of 1.8x is still not alot and 9km default range is ^%$-ú ). Drone/tank vessels trend towards Small-Size Weapons anyway as they offer a more attractive low-fitting vs. performance. |
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
156
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Posted - 2013.08.16 10:56:00 -
[394] - Quote
Since most weapon system are now playing in the same league (all turrets, most missiles, most drones) regarding damageoutput to application -
is there a chance that
- heavy missiles (currently just 100% overshadowed by cruise missiles regarding increased damage and very similiar application)
- amarrian and caldari combat drones (except sentries) and
- ewar-drones (except jamdrones)
are revisited soon?
Mean with the change of drone interfacing someone clearly forgot to apply the dmg-bonus given to dps-drones in a similiar form to ewar-, webbing- and cap neutralizing-drones.
I only correct my own spelling. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1447
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Posted - 2013.08.16 21:17:00 -
[395] - Quote
I believe the buff to Railguns went too far on this one, a Heavy Neutron Blaster II does 44 DPS, a new 250mm Railgun II will do 40.99 DPS. That is using antimatter in both.
That is just to close to one another.
Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Maximus Andendare
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
448
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Posted - 2013.08.16 21:21:00 -
[396] - Quote
Serenity Eon wrote:So ccp rise, in the post above you put "Medium Rails (all sizes and metas):". Does this mean that small and large railguns are getting buffed alongside mediums? I'm just going out on a limb here, but probably not, considering that he said >>> MEDIUM RAILS <<<.
All sizes and metas is obviously referring to Dual 150mm, 200mm and 250mm MEDIUM rails.
Step onto the battlefield, and you're already dead, born again at the end of the battle to live on and fight another day. |
elitatwo
Congregatio
101
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Posted - 2013.08.17 02:38:00 -
[397] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:I believe the buff to Railguns went too far on this one, a Heavy Neutron Blaster II does 44 DPS, a new 250mm Railgun II will do 40.99 DPS. That is using antimatter in both.
That is just to close to one another.
Interesting observation!
Now if you would take a look at the tracking values of the modules you may notice a slight difference there.
On another note, 150mm dual-rails need a slight range buff and all of them don't need a tracking nerf.
CCP Rise,
when you return from vacation please go on SiSi and fly the fastest kiting railcruiser in zee woold, ze rail Eagle.
Maybe ask someone to join you and he may want to fly a Vagabon, yes?
Now turn fraps on and tell us the glory tale of the fastest Caldari kiting cruiser in zee woold and how it went for dat Eagle.
Then ask yourself, does zee railguns really need a tracking nerf?
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Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1447
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Posted - 2013.08.17 02:52:00 -
[398] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:I believe the buff to Railguns went too far on this one, a Heavy Neutron Blaster II does 44 DPS, a new 250mm Railgun II will do 40.99 DPS. That is using antimatter in both.
That is just to close to one another. Interesting observation! Now if you would take a look at the tracking values of the modules you may notice a slight difference there.
Yes there is a difference, now if you would kindly look at the optimal and falloff of those weapons you will notice another difference.
Ideas for Drone Improvement |
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
169
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Posted - 2013.08.17 06:44:00 -
[399] - Quote
Please ccp, dont pull another phantasm or rfiter on us.
Take a look at heavy missile laucnhers, atm there are very very few places where they are of any good, they need a buff (hams or rlmls are simply way better).
What you did was nerf them, maybe justly, and then they were in line with the rest of the medium turrets (i.e terrible). What you are doing now is buffing the rest of the medium turrets while ignoring the hmls, leaving them to be never used again. Dont, revert their nerf.
I also think a hybrid long range weapon system should track better then a projectile one, i.e rails should track better then artys, with now isnt the case. |
elitatwo
Congregatio
102
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Posted - 2013.08.17 11:56:00 -
[400] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:elitatwo wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:I believe the buff to Railguns went too far on this one, a Heavy Neutron Blaster II does 44 DPS, a new 250mm Railgun II will do 40.99 DPS. That is using antimatter in both.
That is just to close to one another. Interesting observation! Now if you would take a look at the tracking values of the modules you may notice a slight difference there. Yes there is a difference, now if you would kindly look at the optimal and falloff of those weapons you will notice another difference.
The proposed changes are open for investigation on SiSi, so I would recommend you log on there and take a corpmate with you and make that experiment on your own.
When you have done so, tell us how it went.
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Barry Dylan
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
7
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Posted - 2013.08.17 12:31:00 -
[401] - Quote
Hey the tracking on rails is so bad now, plz fix |
Jerick Ludhowe
trolllolcorp
533
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Posted - 2013.08.17 13:04:00 -
[402] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:I believe the buff to Railguns went too far on this one, a Heavy Neutron Blaster II does 44 DPS, a new 250mm Railgun II will do 40.99 DPS. That is using antimatter in both.
That is just to close to one another.
Yep, the same issue is more or less true in the beam/pulse comparison.
It's pretty obvious that the dps buffs to some of these medium sized long range weapons went way too far.
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Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children
TOHA Conglomerate
150
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Posted - 2013.08.17 13:35:00 -
[403] - Quote
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:I believe the buff to Railguns went too far on this one, a Heavy Neutron Blaster II does 44 DPS, a new 250mm Railgun II will do 40.99 DPS. That is using antimatter in both.
That is just to close to one another. Yep, the same issue is more or less true in the beam/pulse comparison. It's pretty obvious that the dps buffs to some of these medium sized long range weapons went way too far.
Except that you can't hit with them if either you or your target is moving.
This is not true for blasters or pulse lasers.
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elitatwo
Congregatio
102
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Posted - 2013.08.17 15:37:00 -
[404] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:Jerick Ludhowe wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:I believe the buff to Railguns went too far on this one, a Heavy Neutron Blaster II does 44 DPS, a new 250mm Railgun II will do 40.99 DPS. That is using antimatter in both.
That is just to close to one another. Yep, the same issue is more or less true in the beam/pulse comparison. It's pretty obvious that the dps buffs to some of these medium sized long range weapons went way too far. Except that you can't hit with them if either you or your target is moving. This is not true for blasters or pulse lasers.
I thinks its useless to explain long range turrets and short range turrets to some folks, best to ignore them.
Dat tracking nerf needs to go.
Railguns and beam lasers already struggle to apply any of the damage they might to to a star that doesn't move as much as ships in EVE do.
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Deacon Abox
Justified Chaos
177
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Posted - 2013.08.17 15:55:00 -
[405] - Quote
In general the damage buff and the tracking nerf on all the long ranged medium guns needs to be toned down a little.
Simultaneously some tiericide needs to happen between the tiers of these guns (i.e. between dual 150, 200, and 250 rails, or between 650 and 720, and between quad, focused, and heavy beams). At this time there is little reason to use anything other that the largest unless fitting dictates.
And, the quad beams and dual 150s stats are absolutely terrible. They need some buff in comparison to their larger brothers. Probably more range at the very least. The damage and fitting could stay tiered, but having the range so harshly tiered makes the smaller guns within the groups almost worthless. Especially since the range is so bad, and even with the better tracking of these lowest tier guns in comparison to higher tiers, they get outperformed by the largest tier short ranged medium guns of each type. |
Alex Tutuola
Specter Syndicate
Tactical Narcotics Team
3
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Posted - 2013.08.17 19:46:00 -
[406] - Quote
Deacon Abox wrote:
And, the quad beams and dual 150s stats are absolutely terrible. They need some buff in comparison to their larger brothers. Probably more range at the very least. The damage and fitting could stay tiered, but having the range so harshly tiered makes the smaller guns within the groups almost worthless. Especially since the range is so bad, and even with the better tracking of these lowest tier guns in comparison to higher tiers, they get outperformed by the largest tier short ranged medium guns of each type.
Alternately, could leave the stats the same on dual 150s and quad lights, and give them a signature resolution of 40. It always seemed like they should track like frigate class weapons if they were claiming to be double/quad frigate weapons. :) |
Leskit
The Night Wardens
Viro Mors Non Est
41
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Posted - 2013.08.17 21:54:00 -
[407] - Quote
Rise hasn't posted in this topic in 29 days. I don't think he's going to do anything here  |
Alex Tutuola
Specter Syndicate
Tactical Narcotics Team
4
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Posted - 2013.08.17 21:57:00 -
[408] - Quote
Leskit wrote:Rise hasn't posted in this topic in 29 days. I don't think he's going to do anything here
He's done this a few times in the HAC thread, too. I suppose he's decided the player base cannot be pleased, and he'll just put down what changes he feels like. =P |
Leskit
The Night Wardens
Viro Mors Non Est
41
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Posted - 2013.08.17 22:18:00 -
[409] - Quote
Alex Tutuola wrote:Leskit wrote:Rise hasn't posted in this topic in 29 days. I don't think he's going to do anything here He's done this a few times in the HAC thread, too. I suppose he's decided the player base cannot be pleased, and he'll just put down what changes he feels like. =P
CCP has has fairly regular (weekly or better) replies, this one had a first day reply, that was it. We don't need to be coddled and babied, but no feedback is...well...no feedback. I wonder if he even uses medium guns, especially after using a talos for the gun comparison  |
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
156
|
Posted - 2013.08.17 23:06:00 -
[410] - Quote
Barry Dylan wrote:Hey the tracking on rails is so bad now, plz fix
Nothing a huginn can't fix 
I only correct my own spelling. |
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Alex Tutuola
Specter Syndicate
Tactical Narcotics Team
5
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Posted - 2013.08.18 01:26:00 -
[411] - Quote
Leskit wrote:CCP has has fairly regular (weekly or better) replies, this one had a first day reply, that was it. We don't need to be coddled and babied, but no feedback is...well...no feedback. I wonder if he even uses medium guns, especially after using a talos for the gun comparison
And, once again, he used ammunition that gives a tracking penalty to the talos to show that the medium rails track better. :/ |
GreenSeed
645
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Posted - 2013.08.18 08:03:00 -
[412] - Quote
Beam weapons got WAY too blappy.
with 10+ cruisers on grid shooting Aurora you can melt anything of the same size before they can close the gap and faction standard will continue the carnage before long point range, only if switching to gleam for brawling will the -10% tracking come into play, rendering the tracking completely useless as explained by many different posters already, +25% tracking ammo is WAY too weak, they need to be changed to at the very least +50% tracking.
as it is, on high optimal, its just a +25% damage bonus, period.
if artys got a 10% RoF buff instead of damage, to prevent the alpha from getting any crazier, why did the energy guns get +25% damage?
im not saying long range lazors don't need a buff, everyone agrees that energy guns in general need some love, specially long range. i'm just saying that damage wasn't the problem, the problem with long range lazors was the fact they were useless up close. now they are even more useless up close, while making doctrine use completely overpowered.
and the argument of "well they are long range, so... if you have to swich to Gleam you are using them wrong" only applies to a FC moving 50 Omens or harbis into brawl range, only to whelp the fleet. (hypothetical doctrine here, don't flame). any FW dude flying a Omen on his daily roam hunting plexers will never, ever, risk that "drawback" he will just fit Pulse lasers and shoot scorch.
why?, well because he can't dictate range outside of long point. so he can't shoot anything but multifrequency... only to be penalized with -10% tracking if he gets webbed. and he will, because of :armor:.
so the whole point of the changes to energy weapons is lost. no one who wouldn't have used them will, and the ones that would, will, but with a +25% damage modifier.
i feel this is one of those changes that needs to be reviewed under the "but what will 500 lazors do?" lenses. |
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
37
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Posted - 2013.08.18 10:22:00 -
[413] - Quote
When does the Ammunition Balancing Update is coming?! |
Alex Tutuola
Specter Syndicate
Tactical Narcotics Team
5
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Posted - 2013.08.18 14:30:00 -
[414] - Quote
Lephia DeGrande wrote:When does the Ammunition Balancing Update is coming?!
SoonGäó! |
Leskit
The Night Wardens
Viro Mors Non Est
41
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 16:11:00 -
[415] - Quote
GreenSeed wrote:
if artys got a 10% RoF buff instead of damage, to prevent the alpha from getting any crazier, why did the energy guns get +25% damage?
That was done so the (obscene) capacitor use doesn't get any worse. The faster the lasers fire, the more cap they use. They could up the ROF, but then they would have to decrease the cap use on every single medium sized beam laser in the game- a LOT more work. It's about efficiency of time spent. |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises
Ad-Astra
17
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Posted - 2013.08.18 23:41:00 -
[416] - Quote
Leskit wrote:GreenSeed wrote:
if artys got a 10% RoF buff instead of damage, to prevent the alpha from getting any crazier, why did the energy guns get +25% damage?
That was done so the (obscene) capacitor use doesn't get any worse. The faster the lasers fire, the more cap they use. They could up the ROF, but then they would have to decrease the cap use on every single medium sized beam laser in the game- a LOT more work. It's about efficiency of time spent.
It's also about not stepping on Pulse Lasers too much, or ending up with some really weird balance issues around cap use.
Actually now that you mention it the cap on medium rails is going to suck now :| |
Jack Miton
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
2258
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Posted - 2013.08.19 02:40:00 -
[417] - Quote
is it just me or do beans now out DPS pulses?
call me old fashioned, but that seems wrong...
PS: tracking nerf on the rails is WAY too harsh. |
Leskit
The Night Wardens
Viro Mors Non Est
41
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Posted - 2013.08.19 03:02:00 -
[418] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:is it just me or do beans now out DPS pulses?
call me old fashioned, but that seems wrong...
yes, go back to page 19 and see my chart/post. |
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
176
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Posted - 2013.08.19 05:10:00 -
[419] - Quote
Again, dont forget heavy missile launchers. |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children
TOHA Conglomerate
160
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Posted - 2013.08.19 07:17:00 -
[420] - Quote
W0lf Crendraven wrote:Again, dont forget heavy missile launchers.
HMLs are about right, given the capabilities of the new cerberus.
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