The damage buff is far to massive, there will be little reason at all to use blasters and auto cannons with this numbers outside solo pvp, the only saving grace of puls is that beams are nearly unfit able on everything except the Harbinger, Zealot and Absolution and puls got scorch ammo.

The major issue of medium rails is the lack of tracking in combination with fast movement at 18-28km kitting ranges and that caldari hulls lack the effective turrets(gallente hulls with drones + rails already get ok damage on paper). The reason why small rails work is that they are used within web range and large rails are used on hulls with a lot of tracking mods or at far higher ranges. Damage is not the source of the problem with medium rails(at least on gallente hulls), it is damage application and all you gain by this change is wrecking medium blasters and auto cannons.

Tank and dps is fine for level 3 missions. Tank should be enough for Guristas level 4s.

[Drake, L3 Active PvE Drake]

Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Internal Force Field Array I

10MN Afterburner II
Medium Shield Booster II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile

Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst I

Corresponing cap use reduction?

At present an Omen with Heavy Beams will burn about 10.5 GJ per shot while a Thorax with 250mm Rails burns 10. (According to the values listed in the EVElopedia). The base ROF on the two turrets is the same 6s (the Omen than has an ROF bonus of course).
The ROF gain of new rails puts a significant, additional cap pressure on the ships using them - pushing them closer to Lasers with ammo use...

Just shut up please. Alpha is NOT > DPS every day. Alpha is > DPS only if ALpha is high enough to kill the enemy. When you are fightign larger ships.. DPS >>>>> ALPHA.

Great points on medium beams, it is still far easier to just fit pulse scorch and save the ass ache of trying to make a beam fit work with the PG fitting and cap use.

Especially when you consider the ramifications of having to put a PG mod in a lowslot instead of a heat sink as a result.

In that case, it's still Pulse >>> Beams.

The range, I presume, cannot change all that much without causing balance issues. So the solution lies in the fitting requirements and cap use. But then, I've had this argument all before. At least Bouh hasn't popped up yet to scream about how you can't buff beams at all ever.

And these changes aren't making LR weapon HACs any better or better choice than ABCs but they will have some uses.

Just shut up please. Alpha is NOT > DPS every day. Alpha is > DPS only if ALpha is high enough to kill the enemy. When you are fightign larger ships.. DPS >>>>> ALPHA.

so why do med rails have less tracking then med arty? do you plan on changing that for all sizes?

also shield rail brutix now does more dps then armor blaster one \o/

HACs, on their own? Maybe, maybe not. But they are still the pre-alpha, the starting point for discussion, as Rise mentioned. Hence why this discussion is so important.

I was just EFTing, and you cannot fit an 800mm plate thorax with 200mm rails without investing in an ACR or some implants. It's the same for an 800mm plated 250mm rail deimos.
Also, this falloff bonus is stupid for railguns, adds less and less as you go up the ranges. Should switch all gallente range bonuses to optimal, then make blasters more optimally than falloffy.

Indeed but for what we can read all around everyone has his version of what HACs/SACs are meant to be, which clearly demonstrates ther is no real defined role for T2 assault cruisers in between T1 versions and ABC's, meanwhile HAC/SAC are supposed to be SPECIALIZED ships.

My question after T1 cruisers rebalance, after ABCs rebalance is, and legitimate I think: what are AHAC/SHAC supposed to be specialized at?
Being expensive with no real benefit over T1 versions nor good enough to compete with ABC's? -what's the point?

Of course this is only my version and vision of AHAC's/SHAC's but ihmo for a very specialized ship they need to get the special role they're meant to and most important the tools to achieve their task:

-be dam fast with a nasty small signature and tank (via resist profile), 0 sign bloom when MWD or change bonus to 100% AB speed eventually even bigger to catch MWD speeds

-deliver average 650dps at least (BC dps for a T2 specialized cruiser isn't OP) with in disruption/web range without requiring additional range modules

-get a 3rd rig slot !! this is clearly important and there's no reason they shouldn't have it to increase the interest over T1's

With these changes the natural way to balance those bonus is to force those ships to resist profile tank rather than buffer

->very small signature with good speed and nasty resist profile and only after------->DPS


Only my opinion of course

How medium arties are used at the moment, Lokis? Hurricanes?
Aren't they been used in a sort of "niche" combat only (certain fleet types in certain conditions) ?

It's an honest question, I only fly frigs (and badly), I really don't know the current application/meta of medium arties.
If one day I decide to upgrade to cruisers (solo - small gang low sec roamer), I really can't see why should I use them.

really thats crazy i assume blasters with 2 mags against Rails with 3 mags?

[Brutix, 250s shield_buffer]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Damage Control II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II

NEW 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
NEW 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
NEW 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
NEW 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
NEW 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
NEW 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
[empty high slot]

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


Hammerhead II x5

[Brutix, mixed_blasters higher_tank armor_buffer]
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I

Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M
[empty high slot]

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I


Hammerhead II x5

Also, this falloff bonus is stupid for railguns, adds less and less as you go up the ranges. Should switch all gallente range bonuses to optimal, then make blasters more optimally than falloffy.

Bomber defense for larger fleets, mainly.

Given this buff, Heavy Missiles also need to be brought back in line with the long range turrets to make sure they stay competitive, especially given that they have flight time.

I think that's the point and the difference between a gallente hybrid boat and a Caldari one. The gallente boat is designed to be strapped with blasters hence falloff and tracking bonuses while the Caldari boats are designed for rails and hence get optimal bonuses

I'm saying this since the beginning of this thread, HM's are now uninteresting as hell, after turrets rebalance HM's will be of no interest at all.

Tech 2 HM's were the first weapon system I trained for in eve. On my Damnation with 3 ballistic controls 2's and all support skills to 4 , I only get 236.9 DPS. I wish i trained for HAM's now