Dear Elitatwo

Thank you for the explanation.
PVP is not much for noobs with zero EWAR skills and very beginner spaceship and gunnery skills
as far as i understand the proposed changes the Gallente newbies are to
1) train Battlecruisers as soon as possible (becaise neigther Myrmidon nor Dominix have Hybrid weapon bonuses)
2) train Projectile Weapons (because of way less capacitor consuption)

in other words CCP tells me - if you want to fly the drone boat DO NOT use cruisers but train BattleCruisers ASAP instead and DO NOT train Hybrid weapons. Same applies to Caldari newbie - learn Missiles and DO NOT train Hybrids
I see a little problem here: proposed changes may be nice for "ALL 5" gurus, but (IMHO!) not much newbie-friendly
of maybe i do not realize anything right and "new" rails are OK for beginners. I protest that much hoping to be heard and hoping my questions to be answered

I like the changes, bring 'em on.

I used medium rails and switched to arty as I found it better for missions, this may well give me a reason to switch back to rails again and try a Gallente gun boat instead of a drone boat.

Not quite sure I understand the number of people who are basically saying "I want to be able to install the best weapons, but then also install all the armour or shield tank I want, plus whatever else I want - make that change now"

Surely the point is that to have one thing brilliant you are going to have to pick and choose and sacrifice something else?

Are you implying any of that gun damage would land at 50km? Which, let's check, is 10km outside falloff?
Or was there some other purpose to this post that I can't make out?

Any plan to make defender missiles viable?

I just saw a very interesting comparison over at The Mittani:

250mm Railgun II with Spike:
DPS: 20 (27 after change)
Alpha: 92 (106 after change)
Optimal: 65 km
Falloff: 15 km
Cap/sec: -1.1 (-1.29 after change)
PG: 187.2
CPU: 31.5

Heavy Beam Laser II with Aurora:
DPS: 21 (26 after change)
Alpha: 91 (114 after change)
Optimal: 54 km
Falloff: 10 km
Cap/sec: -3.8
PG: 223.2
CPU: 27.8

Doesn't take tracking into account, yeah, but we're talking sniping ammo here. Mot relevant points bolded out.

Is it me or is there something terribly wrong here?

I just saw a very interesting comparison over at The Mittani:

250mm Railgun II with Spike:
DPS: 20 (27 after change)
Alpha: 92 (106 after change)
Optimal: 65 km
Falloff: 15 km
Cap/sec: -1.1 (-1.29 after change)
PG: 187.2
CPU: 31.5

Heavy Beam Laser II with Aurora:
DPS: 21 (26 after change)
Alpha: 91 (114 after change)
Optimal: 54 km
Falloff: 10 km
Cap/sec: -3.8
PG: 223.2
CPU: 27.8

Doesn't take tracking into account, yeah, but we're talking sniping ammo here. Mot relevant points bolded out.

Is it me or is there something terribly wrong here?

Oh ma gawd, I can see it now
If you would have a boat with 5 of these gun, that would mean you can poke someone with an 530hp damage alpha strike at 65km.
This is totally OP, no other ship can do so much damage with one shot at 65km.

Somebody call the goverment, we have a revolution on our hands!!!

Will Concord be able to intervene?

-snip-

He is pointing at beams having less optimal than rails.

You know and rails now using even more cap.

858dps rail astarte 1016 with drones @ 20o+27f

Confirming rails are now OP and need to be nerfed

a bit out of whack maybe? maybe its just the Astarte that's broken, which would be odd since no one ever complained about it?

Oh okay but I don't see why this is a problem? So far there is no ship below battleship size that could fit those anyway

Yes CCP Team Balance Boats, no cruiser or battlecruiser sized ship can even fit medium beams so there is no point in fitting them in the first place.
And even if you could, the boats that would benefit from fitting those cannot kite because of agility and speed.

The same applies to railguns. Every tech 1 cruiser will be able to run you over and mock you for your fitting choice in a slow boat.

Everything looked fine until you snipped off 15% of the already poor tracking Railguns have.

Are you trying to make Caldari gunboats into things that HAVE to sit at 150 kilometers because of weak tank, caused by PG-hungry turrets, that STILL don't really have enough of a punch to be justified fitting at all?

Dear Elitatwo

Thank you for the explanation.
PVP is not much for noobs with zero EWAR skills and very beginner spaceship and gunnery skills
as far as i understand the proposed changes the Gallente newbies are to
1) train Battlecruisers as soon as possible (becaise neigther Myrmidon nor Dominix have Hybrid weapon bonuses)
2) train Projectile Weapons (because of way less capacitor consuption)

in other words CCP tells me - if you want to fly the drone boat DO NOT use cruisers but train BattleCruisers ASAP instead and DO NOT train Hybrid weapons. Same applies to Caldari newbie - learn Missiles and DO NOT train Hybrids
I see a little problem here: proposed changes may be nice for "ALL 5" gurus, but (IMHO!) not much newbie-friendly
of maybe i do not realize anything right and "new" rails are OK for beginners. I protest that much hoping to be heard and hoping my questions to be answered

So, since I don't use them, I just didn't realise how **** beams were.

Taking two omen fits:

[Omen, Armour Kite]
Internal Force Field Array I
800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 400
Warp Disruptor II

Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M

Medium Energy Locus Coordinator I
Medium Energy Locus Coordinator I
Medium Energy Collision Accelerator I

[Omen, Beams lol]
Damage Control II
800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 400
Warp Disruptor II

Focused Medium Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Xray M
Focused Medium Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Xray M
Focused Medium Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Xray M
Focused Medium Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Xray M
Focused Medium Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Xray M

Medium Energy Locus Coordinator I
Medium Energy Locus Coordinator I
Medium Energy Metastasis Adjuster I

These both have a 26km optimal, that's great, right at the edge of heated point range. Here's the thing, currently the pulse one does 297 dps and the beam does 248. Post patch that'll be 310. Here's the rub, currently the tracking on the pulses is .084 and on the beams it's .060. Post patch that will be worse and of course the pulse one has the option of switching out to high damage high tracking multifreq.

So for 13dps, you're getting 30% less tracking, no close range option and .1 GJ/s less cap use on each gun. Oh and of course you use more cpu which means you have to drop an EANM for an adaptive, losing you ehp.

TLDR lol beams.

But you selectively use T1 ammo on the beams one and t2 on the pulse one..


TRY AGAIN!! PLot a graph for all their ammos and you will see why there are times where beams are better.

BEams have.... superior tracking

Its hard enough to hit things with artillery as it is decreasing the amount of time it takes will give you a slightly better chance of hitting but you'll probably just end up running out of ammo much quicker than before. not that a 5 percent reduction is that big of a deal but it can eventually become just that.

Ho indeed my instacane will indeed suffer tons from this because artillery was really really bad amirite?

By the way, no one ever sees Arty Tornados Arty instacanes Arty lokis/munins Arty Cynabals or even Arty Maelstroms/Tempests...

Medium Rails (all sizes and metas):
-15% Tracking Speed

So, since I don't use them, I just didn't realise how **** beams were.

Taking two omen fits:

[Omen, Armour Kite]
Internal Force Field Array I
800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 400
Warp Disruptor II

Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M

Medium Energy Locus Coordinator I
Medium Energy Locus Coordinator I
Medium Energy Collision Accelerator I

[Omen, Beams lol]
Damage Control II
800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 400
Warp Disruptor II

Focused Medium Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Xray M
Focused Medium Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Xray M
Focused Medium Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Xray M
Focused Medium Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Xray M
Focused Medium Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Xray M

Medium Energy Locus Coordinator I
Medium Energy Locus Coordinator I
Medium Energy Metastasis Adjuster I

These both have a 26km optimal, that's great, right at the edge of heated point range. Here's the thing, currently the pulse one does 297 dps and the beam does 248. Post patch that'll be 310. Here's the rub, currently the tracking on the pulses is .084 and on the beams it's .060. Post patch that will be worse and of course the pulse one has the option of switching out to high damage high tracking multifreq.

So for 13dps, you're getting 30% less tracking, no close range option and .1 GJ/s less cap use on each gun. Oh and of course you use more cpu which means you have to drop an EANM for an adaptive, losing you ehp.

TLDR lol beams.

Short range T2 ammo for long range weapons give extra tracking, Gleam in this case.

Gleam would leave the beams with (I don't have EFT on hand...) about 9km Optimal.