Dear EVE Online players,


When I am bored a little bit I often click around and look at the characters you guys have created. One thing according to the female characters is very ... prominent: It seems you guys mostly like big racks and half naked, skinny bodies.

I know that with a probability of 80 to 90% a man created the character. I am not a feminist. I think this a firstly a questions of aesthetics which of course depends on personal views. But I ask myself is this the imagination you have how a woman should be? This is not an attack on you guys. And I do not want to start a discussion of what you all thing is beautiful. I only wanted to show a conspicuity.

I do not tell you what to do. EVE Online is a free game for which you all pay. You can do what you want. I only wanted to give my opinion.


Regards.

No one cares, I repeat. No one. Not anyone, no individual exist with a real care for this matter. The game is 94% men (90% Male if you wanna be generous) We could have women looking like Quazymodo's grandad after he got his anus pillaged by the Willy Wonka and the chocolate factory and No one would legitimately care.

Dear EVE Online players,


When I am bored a little bit I often click around and look at the characters you guys have created. One thing according to the female characters is very ... prominent: It seems you guys mostly like big racks and half naked, skinny bodies.

I know that with a probability of 80 to 90% a man created the character. I am not a feminist. I think this a firstly a questions of aesthetics which of course depends on personal views. But I ask myself is this the imagination you have how a woman should be? This is not an attack on you guys. And I do not want to start a discussion of what you all thing is beautiful. I only wanted to show a conspicuity.

I do not tell you what to do. EVE Online is a free game for which you all pay. You can do what you want. I only wanted to give my opinion.


Regards.

No one cares, I repeat. No one. Not anyone, no individual exist with a real care for this matter. The game is 94% men (90% Male if you wanna be generous) We could have women looking like Quazymodo's grandad after he got his anus pillaged by the Willy Wonka and the chocolate factory and No one would legitimately care.

For one your toon has no shirt and a fully open jacket, only thing preventing us from seeing cleavage is the fact that EVE CC locks camera angles. So...werble werble...no point to this thread...possible troll...initiating WhyNoOneCares.exe

It is a black top and the west. What I mean are this portraits where you can see the BH of the character. This was what I mean with "half naked". And I am not a so called "troll". I have not attacked anybody only giving my opinion. I only noticed that a lot of the female character portraits have big breasts all the way.

There is at least one. Me. Although correct would be "No one cares except you." And please a little bit more decency.

Dear EVE Online players,


When I am bored a little bit I often click around and look at the characters you guys have created. One thing according to the female characters is very ... prominent: It seems you guys mostly like big racks and half naked, skinny bodies.

I know that with a probability of 80 to 90% a man created the character. I am not a feminist. I think this a firstly a questions of aesthetics which of course depends on personal views. But I ask myself is this the imagination you have how a woman should be? This is not an attack on you guys. And I do not want to start a discussion of what you all thing is beautiful. I only wanted to show a conspicuity.

I do not tell you what to do. EVE Online is a free game for which you all pay. You can do what you want. I only wanted to give my opinion.


Regards.

So, long story short: yes, most males like boobs

EVE Online player like big racks and half naked, skinny bodies!

For one, I *do* identify as feminist, and I think that the problem starts even before a player shows up: all female shoes have high heels. Even combat boots are raised. I mean, seriously, that just makes no sense whatsoever. Is that due to some sort of prevalent disease that requires double X chromosome, some sort of revenge for color blindness?

As for the "no one cares", brigade, lol, irony. Also, Lewis' Law.

Dear EVE Online players,


When I am bored a little bit I often click around and look at the characters you guys have created. One thing according to the female characters is very ... prominent: It seems you guys mostly like big racks and half naked, skinny bodies.

I know that with a probability of 80 to 90% a man created the character. I am not a feminist. I think this a firstly a questions of aesthetics which of course depends on personal views. But I ask myself is this the imagination you have how a woman should be? This is not an attack on you guys. And I do not want to start a discussion of what you all thing is beautiful. I only wanted to show a conspicuity.

I do not tell you what to do. EVE Online is a free game for which you all pay. You can do what you want. I only wanted to give my opinion.


Regards.

So what if a man wants to create an avatar that he enjoys looking at in a video game? What's he going to do, force himself on the avatar?

Seriously, don't go down this road, you won't like the answers, but if you insist on getting them anyway, then you are going to have to accept them for the sake of reality. So, I'll address the only actual question you asked in your entire OP, and leave it there, unless you have any other actual questions.

"But I ask myself is this the imagination you have how a woman should be?"

No, people are usually just making something they enjoy looking at. Whether they expect that image or not in real life is beside the point and definitely not reflected by their choice of avatar creation. This is a world of fantasy, not reality, and you need to learn to separate the two, because you are bordering on the feminist mentality of "you can't do that with pixels because it offends me and gives women a bad image." It doesn't.

I might also add, in your OP, you didn't seem to offer any opinion at all, you really only asked one question amongst a bunch of words that seemed to describe what you were about to ask, but didn't.

No one cares, I repeat. No one. Not anyone, no individual exist with a real care for this matter. The game is 94% men (90% Male if you wanna be generous) We could have women looking like Quazymodo's grandad after he got his anus pillaged by the Willy Wonka and the chocolate factory and No one would legitimately care.

Maybe for the same reason lots of women make toons that look like Ryan Gosling rather than Rab C Nesbitt.

Dear EVE Online players,


When I am bored a little bit I often click around and look at the characters you guys have created. One thing according to the female characters is very ... prominent: It seems you guys mostly like big racks and half naked, skinny bodies.

I know that with a probability of 80 to 90% a man created the character. I am not a feminist. I think this a firstly a questions of aesthetics which of course depends on personal views. But I ask myself is this the imagination you have how a woman should be? This is not an attack on you guys. And I do not want to start a discussion of what you all thing is beautiful. I only wanted to show a conspicuity.

I do not tell you what to do. EVE Online is a free game for which you all pay. You can do what you want. I only wanted to give my opinion.


Regards.

I am a man in real life, does my char's lack of big boobs etc mean that I am gay?

Oh, and if you are a real life woman, why the hell are you not a feminist, do you not want equal rights etc for women?

The Lewis' Law is only jokingly law, it's actually an observation of typical behavior of the "con" side of discussion of feminism. And it being called upon is a way of noting that the discussion here immediately got to the point where it's a good illustration of certain problems we have, as a community (if you don't think we have, just please do note the prevalence of **** jokes in Eve guides, and if you don't think those are a problems, I think we stand on different base assumptions and won't really come into an agreement, also please never meet me in real life). A bit like calling Godwin's Law.

No, it's nothing like Godwin's Law, because where Godwin's Law is grounded in an observed logical fallacy, Lewis' Law is not. People are going to disagree with you, that is inevitable, you do not need to write a law about it.

As for the **** jokes, while they are not something I personally regard as funny, they are protected under free speech whether you like it or not. Actual **** is criminal, the jokes are not. Do you understand? You can have a problem with them and the people who use them all you like, but the fact that they are ALLOWED to say them means there is no problem in the community. The problems would only start if someone were to begin limiting their free speech.

Actually, your current reaction is typical for someone who got Godwined. "BBBBBUuutt I was totally right, ****** was a vegetarian!" (sidenote, no he wasn't).



You seem to think I propose jail time for people who make **** jokes. I don't. Also, you keep using the expression "free speech". I think it means something else than you think it does.

(have fun in this thread, I'm going elsewhere, and the thing is going to go in loops from now on, IMO)

I am a man in real life, does my char's lack of big boobs etc mean that I am gay?

Oh, and if you are a real life woman, why the hell are you not a feminist, do you not want equal rights etc for women?

Dear EVE Online players,


When I am bored a little bit I often click around and look at the characters you guys have created. One thing according to the female characters is very ... prominent: It seems you guys mostly like big racks and half naked, skinny bodies.

I know that with a probability of 80 to 90% a man created the character. I am not a feminist. I think this a firstly a questions of aesthetics which of course depends on personal views. But I ask myself is this the imagination you have how a woman should be? This is not an attack on you guys. And I do not want to start a discussion of what you all thing is beautiful. I only wanted to show a conspicuity.

I do not tell you what to do. EVE Online is a free game for which you all pay. You can do what you want. I only wanted to give my opinion.


Regards.

Well, when I sculpted this character, her breasts were in the average range. One day I wanted to put on my fancy new Right Arm 'Nature' Tattoo and I noticed that my bust size had increased to, quite frankly, a ridiculous proportion. I poked around a bit and it seems that CCP modified some of the configuration stuff for the female bodies so that some of the clothing would fit better, and re-rendered everyone. This resulted in a mega-rack for quite a lot of people. Not what I really wanted.

That's what I heard through the grapevine anyway, haven't seen it 100% confirmed.

Has anyone attempted a petition for a resculpt? Was it successful? I don't really want this character to look like she's about to fall over at any moment.

Dear EVE Online players,


When I am bored a little bit I often click around and look at the characters you guys have created. One thing according to the female characters is very ... prominent: It seems you guys mostly like big racks and half naked, skinny bodies.

I know that with a probability of 80 to 90% a man created the character. I am not a feminist. I think this a firstly a questions of aesthetics which of course depends on personal views. But I ask myself is this the imagination you have how a woman should be? This is not an attack on you guys. And I do not want to start a discussion of what you all thing is beautiful. I only wanted to show a conspicuity.

I do not tell you what to do. EVE Online is a free game for which you all pay. You can do what you want. I only wanted to give my opinion.


Regards.

Let me ask a question: If you (would be a female and) could design the male you want - would it be ugly as hell? Would he have small genitals? Would he be a big, fat and hairy bear with a tiny pen*s? I seriously doubt it, and I think most women would indeed create a male character they would like to look at aswell.

With this in mind - what's the point in making this thread anyway?

I can honestly say I didn't go this route. I prefer B cups, small teardrop shaped beauties wrapped in a mildly form fitting t-shirt. Because unwrapping presents and finding two small handfuls of joy makes me happy.

EVE Online is a free game for which you all pay.

When i was in school i learned that we all basicaly start off as women ( that must be the reason men have nipples). So i was thinking maybe thats the reason why big warm soft or small but firm and neat boobs make such an impact on real life and game decisions.

.. prominent: It seems you guys mostly like big racks and half naked, skinny bodies.

I know that with a probability of 80 to 90% a man created the character.

Your main problem is that you just let everyone know you are female.

Let us know how many PMs you recieve and how many offers you get to join a corp and join vent/mumble etc


Good luck

Dear EVE Online players,


When I am bored a little bit I often click around and look at the characters you guys have created. One thing according to the female characters is very ... prominent: It seems you guys mostly like big racks and half naked, skinny bodies.

I know that with a probability of 80 to 90% a man created the character. I am not a feminist. I think this a firstly a questions of aesthetics which of course depends on personal views. But I ask myself is this the imagination you have how a woman should be? This is not an attack on you guys. And I do not want to start a discussion of what you all thing is beautiful. I only wanted to show a conspicuity.

I do not tell you what to do. EVE Online is a free game for which you all pay. You can do what you want. I only wanted to give my opinion.


Regards.

Heh. Many years ago, my husband wanted to know why I giggled about his characters. So I finally broke down and told him how very, very easy it was for us women to pick out a toon that was created by a man/boy. He actually took it to heart, and makes his toons a bit more... realistic, let's say.

But yeah... overly muscular and as tall as toons can be made? Boy with the wrong idea of what attractively masculine is or man with insecurity issues. BIG rack and tiny waist? Nearly always a male player behind the keyboard (although I have knows some on line seductresses who... well, let's not go there).

And in reality not all woman have big breasts and are skinny. I am not a fan of this ideal of beauty. So this was the main intention of this thread, maybe. Will lead to some replies I guess.

We could have women looking like Quazymodo's grandad after he got his anus pillaged by the Willy Wonka and the chocolate factory and No one would legitimately care.

When I am bored a little bit I often click around and look at the characters you guys have created. One thing according to the female characters is very ... prominent: It seems you guys mostly like big racks and half naked, skinny bodies.

In reality some woman are skinny with big breasts after having implants usually. These woman are considered beautiful because being fat is sloppy and unhealthy. And big breasts is good for babies. This is whats beautiful though any ugly chick can find a guy that will get horny for her.

U are not a fan of this ideal probably because u dont match it. But theres no denying thats whats lusted after. I believe we have answered ur question that we like boobs and skinny. Ur not going to make some realize they actually like flabby chicks with flat chest so might as well move on

Dear EVE Online players,


When I am bored a little bit I often click around and look at the characters you guys have created. One thing according to the female characters is very ... prominent: It seems you guys mostly like big racks and half naked, skinny bodies.

I know that with a probability of 80 to 90% a man created the character. I am not a feminist. I think this a firstly a questions of aesthetics which of course depends on personal views. But I ask myself is this the imagination you have how a woman should be? This is not an attack on you guys. And I do not want to start a discussion of what you all thing is beautiful. I only wanted to show a conspicuity.

I do not tell you what to do. EVE Online is a free game for which you all pay. You can do what you want. I only wanted to give my opinion.


Regards.

ITT: Women saying their version of beauty is the only correct one. Men's idea of beauty is sexist, women's idea of it is empowerment.

No one cares, I repeat. No one. Not anyone, no individual exist with a real care for this matter. The game is 94% men (90% Male if you wanna be generous) We could have women looking like Quazymodo's grandad after he got his anus pillaged by the Willy Wonka and the chocolate factory and No one would legitimately care.

Pfft... Giant boobs... Regular boobs are great, also who needs cleavage portrait when you have hair portrait

the problem starts even before a player shows up: all female shoes have high heels. Even combat boots are raised. I mean, seriously, that just makes no sense whatsoever.

This.

I've always found that any woman who emphatically states that men's standards of female beauty are sexist, inappropriate, etc, typically would not be considered attractive based on those standards.

Have-nots, hating on the haves. A lot of human interaction and motivations can be ascribed to this.

That is right. The gender is choosen very late in the development of an unborn child. But I think it is more a symbol for fertility. We are all still driven by instincts.

I can't tell if you're serious or not, but I'm pretty sure gender is determined at conception. It doesn't get much earlier than that.

Also, wtf is "******" censored? People do understand the "he who must not be named" bits are satire right? Censoring history is not OK.

Let's sort this out.

Gender is determined upon conception. Anyway, the earlier stages of embryonic development are common and so at an early stage everyone had the same precursor structures. Later those structures develop in a way or another depending on hormones, but the point of "everyone was female" is not accurate, as commonality affects non gender-specific structures. As fascinating as is the topological transformation of those structures into gender specific genitals, males never had a vagina or a womb.

And just in case you wonder what are the edge cases of such embryo development...

66-Year-Old Hong Kong Man Discovers He Is Woman After Doctor Visit Reveals He Has Turner Syndrome

Dear EVE Online players,


When I am bored a little bit I often click around and look at the characters you guys have created. One thing according to the female characters is very ... prominent: It seems you guys mostly like big racks and half naked, skinny bodies.

I know that with a probability of 80 to 90% a man created the character. I am not a feminist. I think this a firstly a questions of aesthetics which of course depends on personal views. But I ask myself is this the imagination you have how a woman should be? This is not an attack on you guys. And I do not want to start a discussion of what you all thing is beautiful. I only wanted to show a conspicuity.

I do not tell you what to do. EVE Online is a free game for which you all pay. You can do what you want. I only wanted to give my opinion.


Regards.

Wait till Femen find out that we female avatars can't remove our tops ... there will be hell to pay in Iceland and an invasion of half naked Russian chicks ... oh the horror ..

This.

I've always found that any woman who emphatically states that men's standards of female beauty are sexist, inappropriate, etc, typically would not be considered attractive based on those standards.

Have-nots, hating on the haves. A lot of human interaction and motivations can be ascribed to this.

I wonder then if radical feminism isn't actually an inherent hatred of men, but rather ironically, an inherent hatred of other women instead. This line of reasoning would indeed go a long way towards suggesting that, and it's not entirely far fetched. Just think of all the times you've encountered supposed feminists telling other women how they should live their lives in order to be a 'real' feminist, the 'with us or against us' mentality.

Oh, you have no idea...

I can't keep count of how many other women have attempted to tell my wife that she isn't really happy being a housewife and a stay at home mom, and those same women scream and howl about how much they hate working in their very next forum post.

It's actually observable very easily. For instance, the majority of men like long hair on women. However, attempt to observe (or get the conversation secondhand) a group of married women discussing the possibility of one of them cutting her hair. "oh, it would look so cute on you!" and "it would make you look more youthful!", etc, etc. It does no such thing, however, and subconsciously they are aware of this. But in groupthink, lowering someone else's attractiveness is the same thing as improving yours, without even having to do anything.

Also note, that in almost every case, none of them will tell her to ask the one person whose opinion *should* be most important when it comes to her attractiveness. Her husband. Instead, she dresses and behaves in the manner of the consensu of whatever her social group is.

I have seen this in groups of women from figure skaters to book clubs to cheerleaders to business executives. Same thing, every time.

Oh, you have no idea...

I can't keep count of how many other women have attempted to tell my wife that she isn't really happy being a housewife and a stay at home mom, and those same women scream and howl about how much they hate working in their very next forum post.

It's actually observable very easily. For instance, the majority of men like long hair on women. However, attempt to observe (or get the conversation secondhand) a group of married women discussing the possibility of one of them cutting her hair. "oh, it would look so cute on you!" and "it would make you look more youthful!", etc, etc. It does no such thing, however, and subconsciously they are aware of this. But in groupthink, lowering someone else's attractiveness is the same thing as improving yours, without even having to do anything.

Also note, that in almost every case, none of them will tell her to ask the one person whose opinion *should* be most important when it comes to her attractiveness. Her husband. Instead, she dresses and behaves in the manner of the consensu of whatever her social group is.

I have seen this in groups of women from figure skaters to book clubs to cheerleaders to business executives. Same thing, every time.

Biology class in EvE, LOL love it!
Yes you are correct the mother has a XX (female) chromosome. The father provides an XY (male) or XX (female).

Dear EVE Online players,
It seems you guys mostly like big racks and half naked, skinny bodies.

Now there's a shocker

Yes, in general, men like slender, half naked chicks with nice boobs.

As for EVE: the char creator pretty much spews out pretty chicks by itself. If you want to create a big ugly hag it requires effort, I don't like effort....

Yeah, I know. I've actually seen people seemingly shocked by the revelation that men like slender women with big breasts.

The truth shouldn't offend anyone. And if it does offend you, then you were clinging to a lie in the first place.

Oh, introspective thought, when will you be back amongst our lives?

I started wondering if this is a perceived majority or a real one.

Based on the only relevant studies I could easily find:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20169468
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0057623
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-013-0081-5
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18089285

It depends on where you draw the line between small/medium/large/xtra, but men generally prefer something closer to medium (certainly not a super-majority in any case).

Large breast size preference also correlates with lower economic status and sexism.

I hope this truth doesn't offend you.

Considering that the only one of your cited sources that has a sufficiently large amount to account for a margin of error studied men in Malaysia?

That's a very weird and untrue thing to base your obstinance on. I guess it did offend you; apologies.

In Study 1, 266 men from three sites in Malaysia varying in relative socioeconomic status (high to low) rated a series of animated figures varying in breast size for physical attractiveness.

I suppose reading your own sources was too much to ask for? Second link from the top, first paragraph, third sentence:

You'll have to help me through your reasoning process. As a scientist, I'm having trouble understanding how one of the studies being conducted in Malaysia makes the others have insignificant sample sizes.

But then, I guess the predication that I am talking about Western Civilization was too much to ask for.

only one of your cited sources that has a sufficiently large amount to account for a margin of error

So your only complaint is that one of the four studies was conducted in Malaysia and the



bit was just posturing? I guess we can throw out the economic correlation if it bothers you that much.

Oh, how you do try. Your bluster is irrelevant to me. It only serves to amuse me further at how very mad you must be. Which of my offhanded comments was it that offends you so? Hmm?

Oh, and at some point, you may wish to get back on topic, since we are after all talking about female character models and what is/isn't percieved as attractive.

Does this work on anyone? It seems pretty graceless as far as emergency exits go.



What men find attractive and why seems relevant enough to me.

Why can't I have mustaches for my lady alts?

Save that Malyasian standards of beauty aren't on the menu here. This is a game largely played by Western countries. That standard of beauty is the topic of discussion, not whatever third world anthropological study you can conjure.

Dear EVE Online players,


When I am bored a little bit I often click around and look at the characters you guys have created. One thing according to the female characters is very ... prominent: It seems you guys mostly like big racks and half naked, skinny bodies.

I know that with a probability of 80 to 90% a man created the character. I am not a feminist. I think this a firstly a questions of aesthetics which of course depends on personal views. But I ask myself is this the imagination you have how a woman should be? This is not an attack on you guys. And I do not want to start a discussion of what you all thing is beautiful. I only wanted to show a conspicuity.

I do not tell you what to do. EVE Online is a free game for which you all pay. You can do what you want. I only wanted to give my opinion.


Regards.

Dear EVE Online players,


When I am bored a little bit I often click around and look at the characters you guys have created. One thing according to the female characters is very ... prominent: It seems you guys mostly like big racks and half naked, skinny bodies.

I know that with a probability of 80 to 90% a man created the character. I am not a feminist. I think this a firstly a questions of aesthetics which of course depends on personal views. But I ask myself is this the imagination you have how a woman should be? This is not an attack on you guys. And I do not want to start a discussion of what you all thing is beautiful. I only wanted to show a conspicuity.

I do not tell you what to do. EVE Online is a free game for which you all pay. You can do what you want. I only wanted to give my opinion.


Regards.

You wanna tell me your character looks like you do in real life?
I'm NOT saying you are most likely ugly, in fact, i would never ever say such a thing, but i do speculate that you are not at ease with your own appearance, like most women.

Are you feeling uncomfortable with the fact that most female chars look like they do, because you have a negative self-image?

Biology control minds: skinny woman = young, healthy, in reproductive age. Blonde hairs = younger (blonde hairs tend to become dark over time). Bigger boobs = satiated, healthy children.

It depends on the culture. The more centuries you go back in history the more you will see that round and curvy women were what they call healthy and prolific. If you would put some Hollywood figure or model into some medieval age village they would try to feed her because they would thing she is nearly dying a starvation death. Look at ancient Greek statues. You will not see a big rack.

Yet look at ancient fertility sculptures and you most certainly will. Granted, they were certainly not skinny.

I'm a RL gay man, and I'm po'd that I can't exaggerate 'the thing' on my avatar that I want to exaggerate. CCP is biased towards girls.


Actually:

Glad to see that I'm not the only one exasperated by this ! :D

Also, huge racks and naked bodies are as ugly as faces are detailed in this game, imo. So a woman described by OP isn't even attractive. Still imo. :p

It depends on the culture. The more centuries you go back in history the more you will see that round and curvy women were what they call healthy and prolific. If you would put some Hollywood figure or model into some medieval age village they would try to feed her because they would thing she is nearly dying a starvation death. Look at ancient Greek statues. You will not see a big rack.

Dear EVE Online players,


When I am bored a little bit I often click around and look at the characters you guys have created. One thing according to the female characters is very ... prominent: It seems you guys mostly like big racks and half naked, skinny bodies.

I know that with a probability of 80 to 90% a man created the character. I am not a feminist. I think this a firstly a questions of aesthetics which of course depends on personal views. But I ask myself is this the imagination you have how a woman should be? This is not an attack on you guys. And I do not want to start a discussion of what you all thing is beautiful. I only wanted to show a conspicuity.

I do not tell you what to do. EVE Online is a free game for which you all pay. You can do what you want. I only wanted to give my opinion.


Regards.

Which might be a valid criticism if the other three studies weren't from France, England, and New Zealand.

It's also worth noting that the study in question tried to differentiate between their hypothesis and potential cultural differences in a second study with university students. (I'm guessing you didn't read the full thing though)

On a side note: While I've never been to the city in the study, it doesn't strike me as very third world: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kota_Kinabalu

and they have not cited a single source that demonstrates that "Men's Oppressive Beliefs" are oppressive at all, nor does it explore beyond a very simplistic generalisation of "Men's Beliefs".

I strongly suggest, if you have the access I do, as a real scientist, that you continue your research and re-evaluate the conclusions you established previously, because there is no scientific or sociopolitical evidence that suggests that what men find attractive is related to sexism.

If that's the case, based on the argument of that one article, then what is what women find attractive based on? The majority of women are searching for men with stable jobs and income, and many women will admit that what they want in a man is based on money. Therefore, it could be argued, from the biased point of view of a man who's angry at the world, that women are no more than common whores. But we know this is simply not the case, because we know why women are interested in men who "do" as opposed to men being attracted to women because they "are". And it's based on evolution, which is why those capable of birthing offspring are more attractive, more emotional, more protective, and more caring than men, who are strong, calculating, and predatory by nature.

What you're claiming is that it's sexism that determines what men find attractive.

No, sorry, only one study concluded sexism, and if you were to conduct a proper contextual literary review, as someone looking for a conclusion rather than someone who's already determined one and is looking for the evidence, you would find the same thing.

Just a head's up before I start: your post was very painful to read; extremely rambling and repetitive.

What? They state very clearly that they are drawing on feminist psychology for their survey and definitions, citing something like 10+ sources to that effect.

Unless you're referring to other sources you haven't mentioned, none of the other studies look at the correlation. So... it doesn't have to discredit anything, it's just exploring new research.

I'm not sure why you're so proud of having access to academic databases. That probably makes you... a college student, or a college employee, or at a library, or somewhere within wifi range of a college/library, or someone with any amount of googling ability. In any case, I just linked you scientific evidence. While it admittedly depends on how you define sexism, sexism itself is not a particularly scientific concept.

I claimed nothing of the sort. I merely referenced a study which found they are correlated.

Psychology is very influenced by philosophy and bias in general, but that's not particularly my fault.

Which makes it bias, therefore, inconclusive.

Don't lie. The evidence is in your post. You asserted it after posting the studies, but nowhere in your assertion did you state, "according to this research", or try to justify the research as legitimate. This was a statement made by you, as if it was a well established fact, when it is nothing of the sort.

The other reason why I stated I had access to these databases was to indicate that I've been able to read more of the studies than just the abstracts, which is all you have provided. An abstract is a good way to find out what an article is about, but it's no way to determine its methodology or many other aspects of its accuracy or the author's expertise on the matter.

I have done you the courtesy of explaining what was wrong with that assertion, instead of just saying, "that's wrong, you're an idiot". Do me the courtesy of at least providing a legitimate argument with merit and citations or evidence in response, or conceding the point. Stating something like "psychology is based in philosophy and bias in general" without demonstrating how or why that is the case is merely an assertion without evidence, and it will be dismissed as such.

No oversized rack.
No cleavage.
Decent and realistic body type/size.
Looks more like a badass, not a *****.
Male player.

I don't know about the rest of the player base, but I made and RP this character as the exact opposite of myself IRL.

In reality some woman are skinny with big breasts after having implants usually. These woman are considered beautiful because being fat is sloppy and unhealthy. And big breasts is good for babies. This is whats beautiful though any ugly chick can find a guy that will get horny for her.

U are not a fan of this ideal probably because u dont match it. But theres no denying thats whats lusted after. I believe we have answered ur question that we like boobs and skinny. Ur not going to make some realize they actually like flabby chicks with flat chest so might as well move on

But I ask myself is this the imagination you have how a woman should be?

Not everyone is a 16 year old boy. Honestly Akirei isn't very feminine.

As far as skinny goes, it's hard to make a decent looking obese character using the character creator. Women just get bigger butts and chunkier arms, but there are no apple shapes.

Is it just me or is this a Hey Im a girl thread in disguise ?

No. This was not my intention. Although EVE Online is a mostly men dominated game I very appreciate the opionions of the girls/women playing EVE Online to have also the "other (gender-) side".

I tried playing a male toon once.. and was instantly asked if I am gay.. :P

My avatar was made on a image from my missues.

The only diff is she has brown hair instead of black. I choose black to go with the name

Remiel, first of all, you are awesome. I am not a scientist, nor do I claim to be(unlike some). I am well educated, yes, but you possess the credentialed authority to defeat the false appeal to authority so frequently used by such people that I do not, and it was delightful to read. I've always hated the "Well science, so you lose" fiat arguments.

So have a few likes.

Secondly, this is something I'd like to have brought up before, had the discussion not been derailed. What, really, is the point of "radical feminism" in general engaging in such blatant bias? Not that it wasn't obvious from the outset, but I do wonder what the expected gain is of such disinformation. The motivations behind it have always confused me.

Is it change the expected norm of female beauty? And if so, for what end? Is it to attempt to alter some other perception by shaming men for their views?

Sorry but where have you seen these "radical feminists"? I live in Sweden where pretty much everyone considers themselves to be feminists (I.E. giving women an equal opportunity in our society) and I almost never see a "radical". I did once see one that could be categorised as such on television, but nobody cared about her.

I would rather have ridiculously large endowed women avatars modeled after ******** barbie dolls than anything modeled after your typical feminist.... As my hero Rush Limbaugh has said, feminists are typically only ugly women.


.... LOL (Have fun with that you pinko commie pricks)

@ Remiel Pollard

And where do you sort in this Gender-movement?

Some example from my country what happens recently on the university of Leipzig according to feminism and Gender-movement:
In German normally the masculine form of a word is the neutrum form if you adress a group of mixed sexes or if you have a PhD or Professor titel e.g.. Because the director of the university (a women) believes that this discriminates the women carring this titel she changed the statute of the university in the way that all professors must adress with the female form (german "Professorin") no matter whether men or woman. No joke. The male Professors must now adress with "Herr Professorin". I do not know whether there is an englich expressions for that.

Some years before a group a women in Hamburg argue that it is discriminating for women that traffic signs for walkways and on traffic lights you only see male figures. They wanted to change the figures to female forms with children.

The traffic law was recently changed because in it was told of "cyclist" (german Radfahrer). Someone feels that this discriminiates the women because the masculine form is the neutrum, so now you read "bicycling people", "cardriving people" etc..

All this stuff comes from Brussels.

The feminists do not except the masculine form as neutrum but do not want to create a new neutrum. Now in fact they discriminate the men because the use the female forms as neutrum.

I would rather have ridiculously large endowed women avatars modeled after ******** barbie dolls than anything modeled after your typical feminist.... As my hero Rush Limbaugh has said, feminists are typically only ugly women.


.... LOL (Have fun with that you pinko commie pricks)

I don't have a position in the 'gender movement', because I consider the 'gender movement' an illusion, one that we are all capable of seeing straight through but sometimes, unfortunately, choose not to. The most important thing people need to remember is that gender is not a role. It can be whatever else you want to be, as long as you don't make it a role, and you'll suddenly realise that it no longer counts amongst the merits of an individual.

Agreed. The people I have spoken with see this Gender-thing is extremely dangerous and destructive for the order in society. The best is really to ignore them and their enates like in Leipzig. But you cannot deny that they have influences on governments especially on Brussels and a number of followers especially in the female politicians in the EU. They try to convince other poor states and people around the world to follow their "ideals".

Some time ago, I become a mail via Youtube from one of this women because I told what I said above about this Gender-movement. Very disturbing what they think the world should be. Summarized a reign of feminist women and gays with no norms and rules in society.

I am no one who wants that women stay at home or at the kitchen if they do not want it. But I think that men and women should have a role in society and not all roles can men or women fullfil. What these radical feminists and Gender-guys want is to force the humans into their picture of the world and destroy traditional orders in society which have worked good for thousands of years. I believe the members of both radical feminits, genders (and gays) are some kind of "impaired" women (and men). Rebuffed, alone, despaired and dissatisfied with the way the socitey treats them. Just my opinion.

I am not a feminist.

See, the problem is, there is definitely a need for reform. Tradition is not a reason to keep doing something if it is found that what we are doing is harmful or non-productive. There is a degree of feminism that is required in many parts of the world, because what happens if we allow tradition to prevail in say, Pakistan, where 11 year old girls are shot for trying to get education rights for women? There are many examples of pay inequality in the workforce in the developed world, as well, which would make sense if the difference was based on performance and merit, but it's usually not. There are many motes of inequality between genders that really do exist, but there are many as well that are blown out of all proportion.

I'm not an anarchist, but I wholly agree with exploring alternatives to 'traditional orders in society'. Traditional democracy, for example, or democracy as we know it, is based off the false notion that my ignorance might be just as relevant as your knowledge, so I for one would prefer to see implemented a democratic meritocracy, where those that have earned a right to vote are allowed to vote. Not those who have paid for it, those who have worked for it and proven themselves. Of course, there are problems with this, as well, not the least of which is the question, what of the impaired who cannot prove their merits? Does someone with merit speak for them, and if so, how much room does that leave for corruption or the abuse of that impaired person?

So still traditional democracy prevails where I live, because it is still the best option out of a collection of many bad options. Our real saving grace in Australia is our mixed economic system, where we have a balance between socialist and capitalist economics, such a balance that our economy is one of the strongest in the world, with 31 countries owning bonds in our debt. In this case, I can stand by tradition because so far, with only a few minor wrinkles, this tradition has worked in Australia. But there are many traditions that do little more than create an almost myopic fear of change and do nothing but prevent progress.

Why on Earth not? Feminism is just the philosophy that women are people and should be treated as such.

Correctly applied, it's a term that it should make almost no sense to be proud of. It should be like gloating about breathing. Saying you're "not a feminist" should be along the lines of saying "I'm not a breather".


As for the topic at hand though - it's a fantasy! If somebody wants a nigh-nude character who looks like two watermelons glued to a lamppost, fine, whatever. Let them be shallow, it's not harming any real person.

But this would lead us back to the topic. Would female players playing a male character create it in their imagination of beauty... and from where comes this imagination ... and is it likewise stereotype like that from the men ... ? There was one reply about that.

additionally, i'll add that i think the pressure on men to conform to these "standards" or "stereotypes" of appearance are significantly less dramatic than what women have to deal with. in much of the "first" world, we are bombarded from a very early age by these pressures. i'm not trying to downplay the pressures men are exposed to...i just believe that we women feel the brunt of success or failure in upholding those "stereotypes" more keenly.

Man - rational, logical. Women - emphatic, emotional.

WTF is this bullshit?
You keep dropping these atrocious walls of text about your oh-so-deep opinions about boobs and feminism and, after eight pages, you come up with this?

My 90 years old grandfather would provide me way less obvious and trite stereotypes.

Link me some of these 'various biological and psychological sciences'. Reliable sources.

Also, there is very little room for constructive debate with someone who literally reasons by stereotypes.

I find this whole thread to be sexual harassment. Everyone here has been warned!

Next step will be to report this to management..

I do not collect all things I read or hear. Proof me the opposite of what I am said.

Where have I used stereotypes?

I don't have to proof anything. You started the whole parade.

Pretty much your entire thought process through this thread is made of stereotypes, from the starting fit of bigotism in the OP, to the final "male=rational vs female=emotional" gross generalization.

Final reply from me on the topic. You are way too boring and predictable to warrant future replies.

I do not collect all things I read or hear. Proof me the opposite of what I am said.

Where have I used stereotypes?

You made the claim, it's reasonable for someone to ask that you supply the sources to support the said claim.

I once heard a poem that is appropriate for this thread:

Roses are ****
Violets are ****
I like ****
**** **** ****

(why it blanks out all but one occurrance of the word eludes me)

By basing those definitions on the premise that the topic is subjective and bias without justifying what makes it so, makes the premise false and therefore, the definitions are irrelevant. The topic is not subjective, the paper is utter rubbish.

the myriad of studies that already exist using more substantial methodology that present results to the contrary.

That's all well and good for people that have access to the databases where that information is stored, but when you only link to an abstract without providing some discussion of the paper and just establishing the conclusions with nothing in between, you are not making a case worthy of discussion.

I didn't misquote you, I copied and pasted your words directly, and even provided a link to where it can be found. This is your second obvious lie, and your intentions to save face rather than man up and concede on one small point are becoming more and more obvious. I have no stomach for intellectual dishonesty.

"More formal fields" is a laugh coming from you. You've demonstrated the kind of scientific illiteracy and ignorance and/or denial of discussion I expect from a Playboy Playmate by the name of Jenny McCarthy, or her idiot ex Jim Carrey. Your first failure is that you think psychology is a field unto itself. There are many fields of psychological science, and it is far from a 'soft' science. It's actually a common trait of creatards to dismiss psychology as a 'soft science', but there isn't a real scientist on the face of the planet that dismisses it so easily. There are certainly fields of psychology in their infancy, but don't think for one second they haven't garnered considerable scientific interest. In fact, biologists have worked very closely with psychological researchers on a number of occasions to make some incredible findings.

I'd propose that, given the tendency of only one gender to really engage in the kind of group mindset and social pressure that such things require, that this problem is neither created nor enforced by men at all.

Here's what confuses me the most, though. Everything else you claimed was fine, and supported by plenty of research. I'm only pointing out one claim you made that was fallacious, and you're throwing a tantrum about it. What's wrong with, "Oh, well, I guess I'd better check it out then," at the very least. I don't even expect you to admit you were wrong, or concede defeat, I'm not trying to compete, just establish the facts. You seem to be having trouble with accepting the facts, and I wouldn't have a problem with that, but using the excuse that I'm rambling is offensive, especially considering the irony you show in such an incoherent defence with zero merit of a single point of contention.

And then, you go and claim you're a scientist, as if an argument from authority will do the trick? Mate, I'm a science writer, I do this **** for a living and I don't get my material from the Australian Science Media Centre (which isn't a terrible resource for less scientifically literate journalists, like those just starting out), I get it from the scientists and the journals. I'm telling you now, if you are a scientist, then whoever gave you your PhD was drunk. Anyway, I wouldn't care if you were a hairdresser, the fact is, you still got most of what you said right. I'm talking about one little thing you got wrong. And you're kicking up a stink as if I insulted your mother.

the article is titled with and filled with assertions that male thinking is oppressive by nature, and that there is no exception. This is the premise on which its arguments are based, and they have not justified the premise. This is the primary reason why that article is just terrible, and along with its citations, suggests a radical feminist agenda. If you're going to base your conclusions on that, go for it. Fortunately, for the rest of us, your assertions, and your opinion, are not supported by the facts, so we can continue to enjoy life and learn from it while you carry on about sexism and the false notion that it is the cause of anything.

It can certainly determine what men or women might CLAIM to be attractive for the sake of social acceptance, but that is as far is it goes.

Tell you (at least in the United States) hippy flower powered panzies what..... When Men get the same amount of Maternity leave when their wives have babies, and when women are required to register for the draft.... and military standards are THE SAME AKA no dumbS**** lightweight PT standards for female war fighters.... then come and talk to me about 'sexism' ..... until then STFU, because you really DON'T want 'equality' .... you want a hand out just like Al Sharpton and Obama voters.

I'm just sick of being victimized by women so this thread hits close to home. You know that women like red because they picked berries in caveman days? Also it's called caveman days because women didn't do any of the hunting ever so now they are controlling us men because they're bitter like an ancient cluster of berries.

Welp, this thread turned into actual sexism pretty quickly (and I'm not talking about FO|2TY8 who is obviously being sarcastic).

Cry more. 'Sexism' my arse, its a discussion between dweebs about stuff that nobody who works for a living even cares about.

People are whining about digital boobs.


P.S. the other things you feminist ***** are hypocritical on is abortion and pornography. Legalized Abortion devalues the meaning of women and makes it much easier for pedophiles and abusers to hide their crimes. Pornography and the culture that surrounds it is the most disgusting and demeaning and objectifies all women as sex objects, same with rap/hip-hop music.

So if your a Woman, and you have a problem with men staring at your ass all day like a lion stares at a lamb.... well blame the morons who destroyed western culture back in the '60s and '70s.

thats the thing, in america, there are very rarely "equalist" feminists, a majority of them want favoritism, they want all the "benefits" they believe they miss out on, WITH all the "benefits" permitted by "chivalry" while at the same time, not wanting ANY of the "negatives" men have to deal with.

honestly though, half of it is the american government, they do the same thing with race, to "ensure equality" they allow the laws to give blatant favoritism. same kinda crap attitude that changes whats politically correct every other week, im sorry but i will NEVER use the term "african-american" unless they can point to an immediate blood relative born adn raised in africa, if they cant they are just black.

Same in Germany.

The whippet cookie was as long as it exists called "Negerkuss" (translated into Englisch "kiss of a black"). Since last year they found this name not "political correct" because of "neger". Although it comes from the latin word "niger" meaning simply "black". Now they call it "Schokokuss" (Engl. chocolate kiss). Another example is "Zigeunerschnitzel" (Engl. gypsy(ish) cutlet) simply a specific dish from this region. Erased from usage by government because of "not political correct".

While the mentioning of a "whippet cookie" might give people an idea what you are talking about, it's still a different kind of candy than your GÇ£NegerkussGÇ¥. And its name stems from the original French name GÇ£T+¬te de n+¿greGÇ£, which led to different terms throughout the German language.
And your claim that certain terms were erased from usage by government is utter nonsense. These terms are generally being avoided (for years now) for their racist connotations, but they are neither outlawed nor otherwise forbidden.

Oh, and btw, I'd say "Schnitzel" is best translated to "schnitzel" (at least in American English).

Cry more. 'Sexism' my arse, its a discussion between dweebs about stuff that nobody who works for a living even cares about.

People are whining about digital boobs.


P.S. the other things you feminist ***** are hypocritical on is abortion and pornography. Legalized Abortion devalues the meaning of women and makes it much easier for pedophiles and abusers to hide their crimes. Pornography and the culture that surrounds it is the most disgusting and demeaning and objectifies all women as sex objects, same with rap/hip-hop music.

So if your a Woman, and you have a problem with men staring at your ass all day like a lion stares at a lamb.... well blame the morons who destroyed western culture back in the '60s and '70s.

Sorry. I am not familiar with proper names in English and must trust the translator. Last year there were some discussions around "political correct words" in Germany. Possible that my examples are outdated. But I wanted to add some examples to the political correctness discussion that this not only happens in the USA, although coming from the USA. These stuff around political correctness and female equality etc. comes in the EU mostly from Brussels. Perhaps "erased" was an exaggerated term. Actually no one sentence you for using this words. But it shows that something is going on in western societies.

Sorry. I am not familiar with proper names in English and must trust the translator. Last year there were some discussions around "political correct words" in Germany. Possible that my examples are outdated. But I wanted to add some examples to the political correctness discussion that this not only happens in the USA, although coming from the USA. These stuff around political correctness and female equality etc. comes in the EU mostly from Brussels. Perhaps "erased" was an exaggerated term. Actually no one sentence you for using this words. But it shows that something is going on in western societies.

You should really consider using phrases like GÇ£I believeGÇ¥, GÇ£I thinkGÇ¥ or GÇ£I guessGÇ¥ more often.

The discussion about GÇ£political correctness and female equalityGÇ¥ as you like to call it, is not coming from the US nor is it coming from Brussels. ItGÇÖs a social development that is (in the end) based on the jus naturae which goes back to Greek philosophers in ancient times. However, probably the most important development with regard to "female equality" happened during the French Revolution in 1791, when Olympe de Gouges wrote and published the GÇ£D+¬claration des droits de la Femme et de la CitoyenneGÇ¥ GÇô the GÇ£Declaration of the Rights of Woman and the Female CitizenGÇ¥.

Hurrrrrrrrrrrrr

I have heard from two sources (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUPX44NQl64 and ... I must lie Juergen Elsaesser I think) that it comes from the USA and the EU commission in Brussels. They have not conceived it of course but they are in some way influenced by this ideals and try to implant it into the societies.

I hope you are joking.
Are you aware that the YouTube link you posted leads to scene from a TV show? That the people shown are actors? That the dialogues follow a script? That it's only fiction?

The problem is that you will hardly find European and system critical sources in the mass media. So you need to find independend sources like investigative journalists or people like Juergen Elsaesser (chief editor of the "Compact" magazine), Christoph Hoerstel or Ken Jebsen (independend journalist) to name a few. Also there are good YouTube videos from ordinary people working on these topics. In the US some good sources are Alex Jones or Stefan Molyneux.

But I think from myself that I am capable of finding the difference between fiction and truth or possible truth. I am no one who blame everything instantly as nonsense.

I wasted some time to google the backgrounds of the first three "sources" you mentioned. It was quite enlightening. Conspiracy theorists are not really good sources in my book. But thatGÇÖs only my opinion of course and you are entitled to have your own. I just hope you always remember to put on your tinfoil hat before differentiating between fiction and truth or possible truth.

Death to the white male.

Death to the white male.

Death to the white male.

Why pick less when you can have more?

It is called 'humility'. Seldom used in consumption driven world where people define themselfs only through property what results in greed and envy.