Well thats not true.

OK. So cough up your main and I'll put a merc corp on your ass too. We'll' test your theory as well.

Not sure how that threat has much relevance but sure, go for it. You're still wrong though.

It's not a threat. I just need your main and we'll test your theories about ganking as well. I just paid 100m for a Hulk kill. I got billions. Let's play.

This is ofc that you fly a main in highsec giving you the expertise you sprout.

So you say your last thread was a dumb one, which I actually agree with, it was.

So why make another which is equally dumb?

Yer STILL doin' it.

Like I said before numbnuts, ASK the victims.

In ADDITION to the fact that only miners are easy enough targets for gankers BECAUSE of Concord intervention. No other play type is affected by the gank mechanic.

If you had READ my original post you'd have seen that but like I said, you extract a single sentence and play "20 posts" playing some kind of intellectual mindgame.

If you REALLY want to discuss my point

Why isn't it an issue?

go back to making eve is dying spreadsheets Tippy.

How much would you pay for this?

Because he hasn't been explained why it is one. He made the assertion that it is, so he needs to provide the reasoning why it's true. The onus is on him to prove himself right, not on us to prove his unfounded assertion wrong.
I have to start before I can Gǣgo backGǥ, you knowGǪ
By the way, did you notice that CCP confirmed the worries expressed in the online count graphs? Want to take a stab at guessing what they show now?

The onus is on him to prove himself right, not on us to prove his unfounded assertion wrong.

About the same amount you did. Nothing.

Well I guess I will just settle for blowing you're "only miners get ganked" statement out of the water.

What do you think you're worth Tippia? How much should I spend showing you what a suicide gank feels like? I got billions. Wanna play?

I have an issue with poppy seed buns, the seeds fall off too easily. Therefore there is an issue with poppy seed buns.

Amirite?

So you have no idea, I take it? After all, you've had 7 pages to come with an answer and have failed to do so, relying instead on the hope that others will provide one for you.

So I suppose that settles it: there is, indeed, no issue with suicide ganking GÇö none that you can think of at least. End of debate. Sad, really, because I would have liked to hear some reasons and have a discussion about the nature of conflict in EVE.
It might perhaps be a somewhat silly issue, but at least you explain what the issue is from your point of view. We might quibble about the semantics and logic of creating GÇ£there isGÇ£ out of GÇ£I haveGÇ¥, and the whole thing might slip into a debate over a deliciously fun attempt at defining something as subjective/normative as GÇ£too easilyGÇ¥, but at least we have an issue to discuss. So yes.

Why don't miners just use the Caldari rokh battleship to mine during times of trouble ? Can't you fit a pretty hefty tank on one of those things (enough so that common suicide ships don't have enough firepower to take em down before concordokken) while still maintaining a reasonable mining output ? Didn't miners use them before the mining barges where introduced ?

So how much DO you think you're worth Tippia and where do you fly?

Either that or stfu. You're boring.

Tank is not and never will be enough. It's a flawed mechanic being abused.

Oh come on! I'm the easiest person to find the the EVE cluster. Wow. You really have no clue about ganking have you. Anyway, go start a new thread if you want to discuss my whereabouts GÇö it's not the topic of this thread.

Many arguments stem from the fact that miners should not be risk free and nor should they be able to make isk risk free. It's said that it should be allowed for 'economic' reasons ad nauseum.

However, the same should also be said for mission runners but we know they can't be ganked without serious firepower and dedication. So the whole concept of preventing "risk free income" in highsec is void right there.

If we accept that this is the reasoning behind ganking, we must also ask why suicide ganking is actually neccessary. Why not war-dec and get the free kill? No Concord and no sec status hit. Why indeed?

It's because half the miners (an assumption) sit in NPC corps - many are bots. Even if they join a "real" corp they can simply hop corps on a war-dec. They have MADE mining a relatively risk free pasttime and suicide ganking is the ONLY way to counter it.

With this in mind why should we not seek changes to provide for greater PvP opportunities AND allow for both economic, strategic and tactical advantages by killing both miners AND missioners.

This can only be done with 2 changes imho

1) Remove the ability to stay in an NPC for greater than some arbitrary time. (eg: 90 days). Failure to join a corp involves seizure of assets until you do..

2) Once a war-dec has been declared, NO members can either leave or join during the declaration.

Ofc, the miners still need some kind of protection from mindless violence when there are now more ways to kill them, validly and legitimately. An inability to target unarmed vessels UNLESS war-decced is a potential option.

And ofc, there are those that say this makes for 'consensual PvP' and to some extent it does. But war-dec mechanics exist in highsec for a reason and we should be making these mechanics far more effective. At the moment they're as good as pointless.

The alternative is to invalidate the entire concept of highsec, remove the neccessity to war-dec, remove Concord and let players decide who lives or dies. A true sandbox.

To be frank, it won't make the slightest difference to miners whether highsec, Concord or any such measures exist. They're dying anyway. Let's get highsec missioners and all other risk free isk makers in on the killmails as well.

Discuss....

My locator agent and my scout can't find you.

I betcha there's a merc corp that does and likes my coin. Is it still PvP? Is it still ganking if I pay someone else to do it?

And it is VERY relevant to this topic because I want to SHOW you why ganking is such an issue.

This is where your really agenda is, making high-sec more of a PvP area.

Yes. But as even baltec showed, concerted ganking can kill anything.

Tank is not and never will be enough. It's a flawed mechanic being abused.

Miners are already stuffed. Let's ADD missioners, Incursion runners and EVERY combat vessel to higshec killmails and stop being shallow, lazy cowards with excuses that do NOT apply to the people saying it.

Concerted ganking can kill anything - that's how firepower works. There's only a finite amount of health while you can apply a theoretical infinite amount of dps if you have enough people/ships.

But right now people are complaining about brutixes/Thrashers killing their stuff solo. A rokh can fit a big enough tank so that neither of those ships can take it out quickly. If there's a bunch of them, if you spot them on scan roaming towards you (because groups of battlecruisers/battleship don't just hang a round belts). If you stay aligned you can warp out easliy. You have decent tank to take the small guys.

When the ganking craze dies down you can go back to flying barges. What is the problem ?

Yes. Let's add the people who are already on those killmails. Wait what?

I have no big issues with miners, everyone should be able to play the game as they please.
........
..... should be punnished for falling asleep at the wheel.

G**ns are even killing Orcas mate. My point is no ship is safe - ever - but more so industrials. My argument is, and always has been that suicide ganking in highsec IS illegal (check the repercussions for doing it) but accepted.

It's deemed "neccessary" to kill industrials because guys who want to blow **** up cannot reasonably kill COMBAT vessels.

The mechanic is one sided and broken.

My argument is, and always has been that suicide ganking in highsec IS illegal (check the repercussions for doing it) but accepted.

It's deemed "neccessary" to kill industrials because guys who want to blow **** up cannot reasonably kill COMBAT vessels.

The mechanic is one sided and broken.

wha???
Under war-dec. Yes. Suicide gank. Rare.