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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
ELWhappo Sanchez
1
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Posted - 2013.08.10 12:57:00 -
[241] - Quote
sad day Gallente used to be the drone boat and now they will be the we also have drones boat. you can change domi's name to flower pot now while your at it. thanks alot |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
333
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Posted - 2013.08.10 14:05:00 -
[242] - Quote
The domi was massively over-buffed and we all know it. It's more a shame this wasn't picked up in test. |
Lugia3
Pirates Incorporated
523
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Posted - 2013.08.10 15:18:00 -
[243] - Quote
...And then a simultaneous cry from Gallente pilots all across New Eden was heard. The earth shook and cracked from all the tears. Yarr |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4482
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Posted - 2013.08.10 16:55:00 -
[244] - Quote
This is why CCP tend to balance things in small steps, because if they over buff something and have to take it back down a notch the wailing and gnashing of teeth can be heard for miles. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Peter Tjordenskiold
100
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Posted - 2013.08.10 17:31:00 -
[245] - Quote
The domi isn'ty overpowered but the assist mechanic. In fact it's true for all drone ships. The point here is the code for drone mechanics is so old that CCP doesn't dare to touch this. |
Saint Hecate
Big Diggers Trifectas Syndicate
3
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Posted - 2013.08.10 19:13:00 -
[246] - Quote
I honestly hope this change doesn't go live. I could really understand if it was something like a Gun on a ship or missiles but the problem with drones is literally One stealth bomber dropping One bomb will take out All the sentries. You have a back up set you say? **** it, Drop another bomb! In small gang warfare it only takes one dude roaming around with a smart bomb to ruin your day as well :/.
In your latest post you stated that you are bringing them in line with guns. The problem with this logic i feel is that guns are not destructible. I can't float over to a maelstrom and snap his guns off. You Can float over to my sentries and murder them. Couple that with the Domi being a hefty battleship and during a CTA you are unlikely to be moving or you lose all your drones when your FC warps you out. I think the buff to the Domi finally brought it out of the shadow of the Megathron and I hope you dont destroy this positive change.
Here are my thoughts, I tried to lay them out in a constructive way and hope youll see my point. Hope to hear from you mr CCP Rise.
Best wishes Saint |
Jimmy P De'Souza
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2013.08.11 01:47:00 -
[247] - Quote
Taking the bonus down to 7.5 DOES NOT bring sentries in line with other weapon systems.
Other weapon systems can be fired effectively while the user moves. Other weapon systems have modules which + up the falloff and not just the optimal. Other weapon systems can be scripted. Other weapon systems can be overheated. Other weapon systems don't fall off of your ship if you need to warp out in a hurry. Other weapon systems can choose their damage types without giving up range (not all). Other weapon systems can be remotely boosted. Other weapon systems can't be shot off of your ship. Other weapon systems can't be bombed off of your ship. Other weapon systems can be implant boosted. Other weapon ... (this list will get really damned long if it carries on like this).
That 10% nearly brings domis in line with other sniping fits (not entirely however). If your trying to equalise out the weapons then we need the weapons actually ******* equalised... |
Xequecal
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
31
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Posted - 2013.08.11 02:35:00 -
[248] - Quote
Honestly, rather than nerf the Dominix or drone assist, I'd rather they add something to shake up large-scale fight strategy. RIght now it's all about optimizing the perfect alpha fleet and nothing else matters. That's why sentry domi is so potent, one person can simultaneously fire everyone's weapons at a target to guarantee an instant kill. Not only is this super one-dimensional, but it's boring as **** for everyone that's not having drones assisted to them.
Put in a module that does the following: If you receive over 90% of your ship's total HP in damage within 3 seconds, it automatically activates prevents all damage you would take for the next 8 seconds. After those 8 seconds there's a 5-minute cooldown where it can't activate, and you can't be remote repaired or boosted. Stealth bombers would still be viable, as almost noone gets one-shot by a single bomb.
One-dimenstional sentry drone alpha fleets become bad, just like all other alpha fleets. Shake up the strategy a little bit. |
Irya Boone
TIPIAKS
256
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 03:54:00 -
[249] - Quote
yep and don't forget drones can't be overloaded ... guns yes missiles yes (can't disrupt them ...)
so yes ccp go and you should nerf the Bandwith too , and drone bay too Why gallente drone boat should carry more drones than other sips ?? oO non sense
and i think domi can do well with 2 warrior II
my 2 isk RENAME null sec systems With the name of REAL Universe Stellar Name like KOI-730 etc etc It will be awesome. Need Black Ops be able to FIT cover ops cloaking device !!! |
Nolak Ataru
Incursion Osprey Replacement Fund LLC
12
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Posted - 2013.08.11 07:54:00 -
[250] - Quote
yet another "let's make EVE Online into PVP Online" thread... |
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Joan Greywind
Temnava Legion No Holes Barred
104
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Posted - 2013.08.11 10:46:00 -
[251] - Quote
It's not that a big of a nerf anyways, adds up to 12.5% on level 5. That is a decrease of 12.5% to your total tracking, which isn't game changing, so I don't know why the excessive whining. It is more of a tweak than a change, admittedly a deserved one. |
David Xavier
The Scope Gallente Federation
26
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Posted - 2013.08.11 10:51:00 -
[252] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:The domi was massively over-buffed and we all know it. It's more a shame this wasn't picked up in test.
Look another frigates above all crusader being butthurt because there is a single battleship they can't solo. I don't suffer from insanity.. I enjoy it ! |
Doed
Tyrfing Industries Viro Mors Non Est
32
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Posted - 2013.08.11 10:54:00 -
[253] - Quote
Joan Greywind wrote:It's not that a big of a nerf anyways, adds up to 12.5% on level 5. That is a decrease of 12.5% to your total tracking, which isn't game changing, so I don't know why the excessive whining. It is more of a tweak than a change, admittedly a deserved one.
Its more like an 8.33% overall nerf
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Kane Fenris
NWP
72
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Posted - 2013.08.11 11:10:00 -
[254] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Quote: (Remember how in the T1 BS changes thread people said that no-one would ever fly a Dominix over a Geddon?) Glad someone else remembers this =)
do you remember how people said nobody will fly a Tempest? and nobody does fly a tempest! |
David Xavier
The Scope Gallente Federation
26
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Posted - 2013.08.11 11:37:00 -
[255] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Quote:I don't think this is a needed change. It's not soul crushing, and I'm not going to rage about it, but clearly you are targeting how powerful sentry drones are with their massive tracking and range. You're right that there's some distinct disadvantages to using drones (and sentries especially), but think about all the ways the ship is already accounting for that. The biggest one is that it gets more bonuses to its primary weapons than a missile or turret based ship would. This one bonus is giving +50% optimal AND +50% tracking; imagine a Megathron or Maelstrom with that kind of bonus. Drone disadvantages are also balanced by things like having a free top rack that you can use to get even more damage or pick up tons of utility or the ability to switch weapon sizes and damage types freely.
You conveniently forget that drones need damage mods in the lows, tracking and range mods in the mid slots just like turrets, in addition to these high slot modules for control range are need as well! This does not leave any space neither for appropriate mod slots for the "free" weapons nor slots for the weapons themselves, plus said weapons don't receive bonuses from the hull either.
So you can fit a greatly diminished rack of "free" weapons with ****** damage, tracking and range.
Whereas a 1000+DPS turret oriented ship can still launch a flight of lights to swat/harass frigates or EWAR drones for some serious utility, also don't have to worry about their weapon systems being destroyed before the ship itself.
I don't suffer from insanity.. I enjoy it ! |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
333
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 13:07:00 -
[256] - Quote
David Xavier wrote:Morrigan LeSante wrote:The domi was massively over-buffed and we all know it. It's more a shame this wasn't picked up in test. Look another frigates above all crusader being butthurt because there is a single battleship they can't solo.
Nothing to do with that, it was FAR too powerful. Utterly ridiculous. That DPS at those ranges was nonsense. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1443
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 13:20:00 -
[257] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:David Xavier wrote:Morrigan LeSante wrote:The domi was massively over-buffed and we all know it. It's more a shame this wasn't picked up in test. Look another frigates above all crusader being butthurt because there is a single battleship they can't solo. Nothing to do with that, it was FAR too powerful. Utterly ridiculous. That DPS at those ranges was nonsense. And they will lose about 5~10km so rather than bouncers being able to deal 630 DPS out to 136km they will only hit out to 125km Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
763
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Posted - 2013.08.11 13:39:00 -
[258] - Quote
David Xavier wrote:...also don't have to worry about their weapon systems being destroyed before the ship itself. Shouldn't take long if its a 1k+ dps fit .. tank is almost nonexistent when going gank like that. The 10% bonus essentially allowed long range weapons (sentries) to perform equally well at all ranges which is what got HML's nerfed if you recall. Even the toned down 7.5% is borderline as it does not discriminate between combat and sentry drones .. first thing that was done when they started on T2 hulls was to introduce that distinction so it is a big deal.
You are right otherwise, drone platforms do have some slot requirements but it doesn't even come close to the ~10 slots of gun/missile users (primary weapon system + dmg mods) and since drone boats only have one slot deficit they are still way ahead when it comes to options.
In short: Tracking is one of the best bonuses that can applied to a ship these days and can be balanced by having said ship stay in the low end of paper dps (ex. Apocalypse), but once you add damage (and in the case of the Dominix range as well) it immediately enters the "risk of OPness" column. Even shorter: Revision is well deserved and overdue. |
Oliver Stoned
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
11
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 15:20:00 -
[259] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:David Xavier wrote:...also don't have to worry about their weapon systems being destroyed before the ship itself. Shouldn't take long if its a 1k+ dps fit .. tank is almost nonexistent when going gank like that. The 10% bonus essentially allowed long range weapons (sentries) to perform equally well at all ranges which is what got HML's nerfed if you recall. Even the toned down 7.5% is borderline as it does not discriminate between combat and sentry drones .. first thing that was done when they started on T2 hulls was to introduce that distinction so it is a big deal. You are right otherwise, drone platforms do have some slot requirements but it doesn't even come close to the ~10 slots of gun/missile users (primary weapon system + dmg mods) and since drone boats only have one slot deficit they are still way ahead when it comes to options. In short: Tracking is one of the best bonuses that can applied to a ship these days and can be balanced by having said ship stay in the low end of paper dps (ex. Apocalypse), but once you add damage (and in the case of the Dominix range as well) it immediately enters the "risk of OPness" column. Even shorter: Revision is well deserved and overdue. I disagree.
My question would be "How many of the (NERF the Dominix) actually fly it on a regular basis?" Just because it did well in the Alliance Tourney and now it's overpowered? How many ships that did well in the Tournaments got nerfed next available patch?
Finally the Dominix starts performing like it should and it gets the Nerf whack. It's a drone boat or a mini drone carrier. That is it's main weapon.
First they started with the EOS loosing bandwidth and now tracking on Dominix. What's next?
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kogelbiefstuk
Contraband Inc
0
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Posted - 2013.08.11 15:50:00 -
[260] - Quote
Anharat wrote:CCP Rise wrote: Drone assist is a much larger issue and we aren't looking to make any changes to it for 1.1. . This is disappointing. Time to up my media library so i can watch movies while my sentry boat shoots what the FC points at for the next year.
And lazy people like that are exactly the reason. The point is to get more people to play the game themselves, not be lazy f1 pushers.
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Jimmy P De'Souza
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2013.08.11 16:23:00 -
[261] - Quote
Joan Greywind wrote:It's not that a big of a nerf anyways, adds up to 12.5% on level 5. That is a decrease of 12.5% to your total tracking, which isn't game changing, so I don't know why the excessive whining. It is more of a tweak than a change, admittedly a deserved one.
Thats the kind of stupidity were looking at here as well...
The reasoning behind it supposedly is to bring them in line with other weapons. Other weapons have a huge amount of advantages over drones. Even just looking at the long range side of it your talking out of your arse.
Drone tracking mods just give you 25% optimal and 25% tracking, whereas TC give you 16% Optimal and 32% falloff, or 35% tracking. TC are better.
It takes 2 tracking mods to enable unbonused rails to hit to 249, 1 to allow 200. Take that to 3 and 2 with other weapons. Do you know how many it takes for a domi to hit out to those ranges with Wardens? 11. And that is currently, after this change it just isnt going to be possible.
That isnt in line, that is a ship which is built to be a sniping ship being made even worse than the other sniping ships than it already is.
Now supposedly it is to hinder people drone assist abusing in PVP, but this change isn't going to do **** about that, and the only thing that could do **** about that they arent willing to touch for some reason. |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
422
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 16:24:00 -
[262] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:David Xavier wrote:Morrigan LeSante wrote:The domi was massively over-buffed and we all know it. It's more a shame this wasn't picked up in test. Look another frigates above all crusader being butthurt because there is a single battleship they can't solo. Nothing to do with that, it was FAR too powerful. Utterly ridiculous. That DPS at those ranges was nonsense.
When you need EIGHT mods to make the things usefull
i.e. x3 Omni x3 Damage Amps x3 Link Augmentors
exactly how powerful are they supposed to be?
....oh and that isn't counting a Sebo to actually use the range on every not garde sentry. |
Jimmy P De'Souza
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2013.08.11 16:39:00 -
[263] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:In short: Tracking is one of the best bonuses that can applied to a ship these days and can be balanced by having said ship stay in the low end of paper dps (ex. Apocalypse).
..?!
You are aware that the Apoc when fitted with Beams has better paper dps to greater ranges than a sentry domi while using less mods right? Or that you can fit a pulse apoc to hit to garde ranges with garde dps, but with the ability to ammo and OH to 1300+ dps.
Right? |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
764
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 17:05:00 -
[264] - Quote
Oliver Stoned wrote:My question would be "How many of the (NERF the Dominix) actually fly it on a regular basis?".. It is one the daftest questions out there only trumped by 'post with your main'. Do you have to jump of a high-rise in speedo's to know it is a bad idea? What you should have asked to retain any sort of credibility and relevance was if the people not crying their eyes out over the change know how tracking works and are knowledgeable in PvP in general.
PS: Eos is being made into a dream boat in case you missed. Expect it and its sibling to get the bat prior to release though, a tad over the top both
Onictus wrote:...When you need EIGHT mods to make the things usefull... You mean like a gunboat that has to spend 7-8 slots for guns, 2-3 lowslots for damage/TE and midslots to run it all? .. droneboats, even when tricked out for all out sniping does not come close to the 'other' hulls.
Jimmy P De'Souza wrote:Veshta Yoshida wrote:In short: Tracking is one of the best bonuses that can applied to a ship these days and can be balanced by having said ship stay in the low end of paper dps (ex. Apocalypse). ..?! You are aware that the Apoc when fitted with Beams has better paper dps to greater ranges than a sentry domi while using less mods right? Or that you can fit a pulse apoc to hit to garde ranges with garde dps, but with the ability to ammo and OH to 1300+ dps. Right? Ok, I'll humour you.
Assuming you are talking about Tachyon's with Aurora for the first falsehood: Eight (8) Tachyons needing fitting help to get on augmented by seven HSII's gives you a whopping 438 dps (OH = 515) @ 163km .. so the biggest bore guns with an outright silly amount of damage mods doesn't do it. What is your secret?
Assuming you are talking about MegaPulse with Conflagration (closest to Garde range, highest dps) for the second falsehood: Eight (8) Mega Pulse augmented by seven HSII gives you a whopping 892 dps (OH = 1026) @ 21+10km .. so the biggest bore guns with an outright silly amount of damage mods doesn't do it. What is your secret?
Would you like to do the same for Sentry Dominix or should I? You have 15 slots (8 + 7) to use as you see fit. |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
334
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 17:15:00 -
[265] - Quote
Onictus wrote:Morrigan LeSante wrote:David Xavier wrote:Morrigan LeSante wrote:The domi was massively over-buffed and we all know it. It's more a shame this wasn't picked up in test. Look another frigates above all crusader being butthurt because there is a single battleship they can't solo. Nothing to do with that, it was FAR too powerful. Utterly ridiculous. That DPS at those ranges was nonsense. When you need EIGHT mods to make the things usefull i.e. x3 Omni x3 Damage Amps x3 Link Augmentors exactly how powerful are they supposed to be? ....oh and that isn't counting a Sebo to actually use the range on every not garde sentry.
You cannot change the fact it's was (possibly even still is) too much damage at those ranges. Compare the numbers to other "sniper" or hell even just longish range boats, cruise excluded due to travel time/firewall shenannigans. The other ships aren't even at the races. |
Goldensaver
Khanid Regional Directorate
221
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Posted - 2013.08.11 17:28:00 -
[266] - Quote
Jimmy P De'Souza wrote:Veshta Yoshida wrote:In short: Tracking is one of the best bonuses that can applied to a ship these days and can be balanced by having said ship stay in the low end of paper dps (ex. Apocalypse). ..?! You are aware that the Apoc when fitted with Beams has better paper dps to greater ranges than a sentry domi while using less mods right? Or that you can fit a pulse apoc to hit to garde ranges with garde dps, but with the ability to ammo and OH to 1300+ dps. Right? And the tracking?
How does the tracking compare?
Just to go with "Less mods" on the Apoc, so 9 mods fit to Domi I can get:
With Garde II's: 78km Optimal, 12km Falloff, 751 DPS, and 0.093 tracking.
Meanwhile the Apoc:
With 8 Mega Pulses (Scorch): 62km Optimal, 10km Falloff, 353 DPS, and 0.043 tracking
With 8 Tachyon Beams (Navy Xray to match range): 79KM Optimal, 25KM Falloff, 314 DPS, and 0.023 tracking
So with this both Apocs get less than half as much DPS with less than half the tracking at the ranges the Garde hits with "less mods". Oh, and the 8 Tachs fit doesn't even fit (short on PWG).
Now, to compare the same with 3 TE's, 3 Heat Sinks (14 slots on each, far less than the Domi's 9 more than making up for -1 slot).
Domi: Garde II's: 78KM Optimal, 12km Falloff, 751 DPS, 0.093 tracking
Apoc: (DPS/Heat DPS) Mega Pulse:78km Optimal, 16km Falloff, 584/672 DPS, 0.054 tracking Tachyon (Navy Gamma): 72km Optimal, 39km Falloff, 635/747 DPS, 0.029 tracking.
So, even with many more mods being used, they get inferior DPS (even with heat!) at the same ranges as Garde's, and inferior tracking meaning that not only is paper DPS worse, but also applied. The tracking is almost half of the Garde's in both situations.
Also, at any point the Domi can switch out to any other sentry types it has in bay, such as Bouncers, or Wardens for substantially more range.
Now this is with the 10% per level. For post patch simply multiply the Optimal and Tracking of the Domi by 0.916666. Those stats will still be better.
Now admittably, the Pulse Apoc has the advantage of being able to switch to Multifrequency for being stronger at short ranges, but the tracking is still worse... |
Tobias Hareka
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
77
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 17:41:00 -
[267] - Quote
Jimmy P De'Souza wrote:Other weapon systems can choose their damage types without giving up range (not all).
There's only two weapon systems that allow damage type selection: - Missiles - Projectiles (T2 limited to expl/kin)
Your statement is only true for missiles. |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
422
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 17:44:00 -
[268] - Quote
Goldensaver wrote:Jimmy P De'Souza wrote:Veshta Yoshida wrote:In short: Tracking is one of the best bonuses that can applied to a ship these days and can be balanced by having said ship stay in the low end of paper dps (ex. Apocalypse). ..?! You are aware that the Apoc when fitted with Beams has better paper dps to greater ranges than a sentry domi while using less mods right? Or that you can fit a pulse apoc to hit to garde ranges with garde dps, but with the ability to ammo and OH to 1300+ dps. Right? And the tracking? How does the tracking compare? Just to go with "Less mods" on the Apoc, so 9 mods fit to Domi I can get: With Garde II's: 78km Optimal, 12km Falloff, 751 DPS, and 0.093 tracking. Meanwhile the Apoc: With 8 Mega Pulses (Scorch): 62km Optimal, 10km Falloff, 353 DPS, and 0.043 tracking With 8 Tachyon Beams (Navy Xray to match range): 79KM Optimal, 25KM Falloff, 314 DPS, and 0.023 tracking So with this both Apocs get less than half as much DPS with less than half the tracking at the ranges the Garde hits with "less mods". Oh, and the 8 Tachs fit doesn't even fit (short on PWG). Now, to compare the same with 3 TE's, 3 Heat Sinks (14 slots on each, far less than the Domi's 9 more than making up for -1 slot). Domi: Garde II's: 78KM Optimal, 12km Falloff, 751 DPS, 0.093 tracking Apoc: (DPS/Heat DPS) Mega Pulse:78km Optimal, 16km Falloff, 584/672 DPS, 0.054 tracking Tachyon (Navy Gamma): 72km Optimal, 39km Falloff, 635/747 DPS, 0.029 tracking. So, even with many more mods being used, they get inferior DPS (even with heat!) at the same ranges as Garde's, and inferior tracking meaning that not only is paper DPS worse, but also applied. The tracking is almost half of the Garde's in both situations. Also, at any point the Domi can switch out to any other sentry types it has in bay, such as Bouncers, or Wardens for substantially more range. Now this is with the 10% per level. For post patch simply multiply the Optimal and Tracking of the Domi by 0.916666. Those stats will still be better. Now admittably, the Pulse Apoc has the advantage of being able to switch to Multifrequency for being stronger at short ranges, but the tracking is still worse...
You can't blow mega pulse IIs off the side of the ship either......and when you warp they go with you.
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Goldensaver
Khanid Regional Directorate
221
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Posted - 2013.08.11 17:50:00 -
[269] - Quote
Onictus wrote: You can't blow mega pulse IIs off the side of the ship either......and when you warp they go with you.
Sorry, I took particular offence to:
Jimmy P De'Souza wrote: ..?!
You are aware that the Apoc when fitted with Beams has better paper dps to greater ranges than a sentry domi while using less mods right? Or that you can fit a pulse apoc to hit to garde ranges with garde dps, but with the ability to ammo and OH to 1300+ dps.
Right?
I agree, there are disadvantages to drones. I just had to correct this. This bothered me. |
Tobias Hareka
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
77
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 18:01:00 -
[270] - Quote
Comparing sentry drones to Tachs is also a bit... dumb.
There's multiple ships that can utilize sentry drones properly. There's only ship that can utilize Tachs properly. |
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