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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 17 post(s) |
John Ryuk
C0NC0RD P0LICE DEPT.
0
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 00:45:00 -
[811] - Quote
Fix Lag wrote:John Ryuk wrote: It's against Federal Law to smoke ********* yet they do it in WA and CO, but the federal law is rarley enforced, but you push you luck then the local pd can charge you with a Federal Charge instead of a state charge to make it stick.
This rule is likely to be rarley enforced unless someone pushes there luck.
It's a legal tool at there desposial if they need to use it.
They should utilize the "we don't like you" clause of the EULA and ban you for posting crimes against humanity.
Do you think about what you say before you post it or just let whatever pops into your tiny little brain come out on the fourms? |
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
185
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 00:47:00 -
[812] - Quote
Sid Hudgens wrote: Your argument doesn't track with me...
In this situation the GMs are the police officers and the "speed limit" is clearly marked as "don't impersonate anyone."
Except they are not clearly marked. The letter of the law says that if I undock and rename my Ibis to Kenny's Ibis I am now to be punished for impersonating Kenny. Naming my Cheetah shuttle as I often do is now a gray area as I am misrepresenting myself.
We are literally being told lying is out the window and you better be doing everything with good intentions in mind, but scamming is still OK.
Sid Hudgens wrote: I don't see where anyone from CCP has suggested that any violation of the "letter of the law" results in instant ban-hammer...?
As I understand a recent "100kph over" incident resulted in a first offence perma-ban-hammer swing. For comparison, someone modifying game code to bot a 30 barge army while they sleep gets a 3 strike rule. Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38 |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4540
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 00:48:00 -
[813] - Quote
Fix Lag wrote:John Ryuk wrote: It's against Federal Law to smoke ********* yet they do it in WA and CO, but the federal law is rarley enforced, but you push you luck then the local pd can charge you with a Federal Charge instead of a state charge to make it stick.
This rule is likely to be rarley enforced unless someone pushes there luck.
It's a legal tool at there desposial if they need to use it.
They should utilize the "we don't like you" clause of the EULA and ban you for posting crimes against humanity. I think they like having people blindly support them. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4540
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 00:50:00 -
[814] - Quote
Georgina Parmala wrote:Sid Hudgens wrote: Your argument doesn't track with me...
In this situation the GMs are the police officers and the "speed limit" is clearly marked as "don't impersonate anyone."
Except they are not clearly marked. The letter of the law says that if I undock and rename my Ibis to Kenny's Ibis I am now to be punished for impersonating Kenny. Naming my Cheetah shuttle as I often do is now a gray area as I am misrepresenting myself. We are literally being told lying is out the window and you better be doing everything with good intentions in mind, but scamming is still OK. Sid Hudgens wrote: I don't see where anyone from CCP has suggested that any violation of the "letter of the law" results in instant ban-hammer...?
As I understand a recent "100kph over" incident resulted in a first offence perma-ban-hammer swing. For comparison, someone modifying game code to bot a 30 barge army while they sleep gets a 3 strike rule. So you're saying that botting is not as evil as scamming...
No wait, not you but the GMs There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Sam Alkawe
We are not bad. Just unlucky Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 00:50:00 -
[815] - Quote
Sid Hudgens wrote:Sirane Elrek wrote:Sid Hudgens wrote:Do we know CCP is going to use this impersonation clause "a lot"? You would think that perhaps the GMs would use some discretion and only use it in extreme situations ... because ... I don't know ... they are concerned with "consumer good-will?" Unlike the catch-all clause, the other terms in the ToS are actually there for day-to-day use. Remember the thing I said about "looking arbitrary"? It's not arbitrary if something's explicitly forbidden and you act on it. It is however arbitrary if you disallow something and then don't act on it. I'm not going to claim I know how often that rule will be used, because that'd be dishonest. But the fact that there is a rule against misrepresentation now means that it's going to be used. Foul language and hate speech is "explicitly forbidden" and rarely acted upon ... so this would seem to be arbitrary. Why are people not as upset about this clause?
Because unless it's a really bad case, nobody will really report you for that. And if it is a really bad case, then nobody will complain about the ban because it's a really bad case. With scamming every case is the equivalent of a bad case (to the victim). Hence why the difference.
Although, to be fair, that could be another area for change (is there a clarification of what is foul language? What about hate speech? I don't know; haven't read), but that's not why we are here, is it? |
Sirane Elrek
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
199
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 00:50:00 -
[816] - Quote
Sid Hudgens wrote:Foul language and hate speech is "explicitly forbidden" and rarely acted upon ... so this would seem to be arbitrary. Why are people not as upset about this clause? GMs actually hand out temporary mutes quite happily if somebody makes them aware of it, so it does get acted upon. They don't pull out the big guns and outright ban people if somebody goes around and calls Ev0ke *****, but it gets sanctioned. (But since CCP probably don't have the manpower to continually watch all chat channels, this depends on people writing petitions.) |
John Ryuk
C0NC0RD P0LICE DEPT.
0
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 00:51:00 -
[817] - Quote
Anyway, this change was brought around do to people impersonating, CCP GM's and or Devs and scamming new players and making them quit.
This is likley not to be enforced unless you try impersonating CCP or it's staff. So can we please let this die and stop beating a dead horse. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4540
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 00:51:00 -
[818] - Quote
Le Creed wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:John Ryuk wrote:This is to cut down on scammers, and I'm for it. Yeah !! Those pesky scammers and griefers are ruining my mining operation! DOWN WITH SCAMMERS~~~ Mining operation where you whip your slaves back and forth right? There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Le Creed
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
12
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 00:54:00 -
[819] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Le Creed wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:John Ryuk wrote:This is to cut down on scammers, and I'm for it. Yeah !! Those pesky scammers and griefers are ruining my mining operation! DOWN WITH SCAMMERS~~~ Mining operation where you whip your slaves back and forth right?
It's the slaves that are doing the heavy lifting, yes. But I can't have them being scammed out of the minerals they are harvesting. It hurts my bottom line! |
Sirane Elrek
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
199
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 00:55:00 -
[820] - Quote
John Ryuk wrote:Anyway, this change was brought around do to people impersonating, CCP GM's and or Devs and scamming new players and making them quit. says who
impersonating a dev or GM was forbidden even before this change so I'm gonna have to see some proof for your claim here |
|
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
185
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 00:57:00 -
[821] - Quote
Sid Hudgens wrote:Georgina Parmala wrote:Sid Hudgens wrote: Do we know CCP is going to use this impersonation clause "a lot"?
A few pages back we got confirmation they have used it - prior to it actually existing - in a case where a player used the name of a corporation he does not belong to in the contract name of a private scam contract. What do you think? Ok .. so they used it once. What about the catch-all clause? Have they ever used that once? Have that used that one twice? Which is the bigger threat? You didn't play blink around the time this happened, did you?
There were dozens of people watching the blink winners making scam contracts insinuating the person got a double-win but would either scam isk or the item they won. Then suddenly it stopped, and it's not because no one was falling for it any more (despite blink making people aware of the scams being around)
You are also reading into the wording of my example and not the context. Every text box in the game is now a torch waiting for a spark.
Lets take your bio for example:
Quote:Hi pubbieswarm!
Meet the new goons, same as the old BOB.
Meet the new goons eh, sounds to me like you are impersonating a goon. Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38 |
John Ryuk
C0NC0RD P0LICE DEPT.
0
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 00:57:00 -
[822] - Quote
Sirane Elrek wrote:John Ryuk wrote:Anyway, this change was brought around do to people impersonating, CCP GM's and or Devs and scamming new players and making them quit. says who impersonating a dev or GM was forbidden even before this change so I'm gonna have to see some proof for your claim here
Sit in JITA and watch local or any of the new start systems |
James Fnord
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
6
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 01:00:00 -
[823] - Quote
John Ryuk wrote:Sirane Elrek wrote:John Ryuk wrote:Anyway, this change was brought around do to people impersonating, CCP GM's and or Devs and scamming new players and making them quit. says who impersonating a dev or GM was forbidden even before this change so I'm gonna have to see some proof for your claim here Sit in JITA and watch local or any of the new start systems
Right, you seem to be offering no proof at all, so I'm going to make the call that you're talking out of your posterior. |
probag Bear
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 01:02:00 -
[824] - Quote
o7 John Ryuk. Is Jita local still the same? |
Sirane Elrek
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
199
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 01:02:00 -
[825] - Quote
John Ryuk wrote:Sirane Elrek wrote:John Ryuk wrote:Anyway, this change was brought around do to people impersonating, CCP GM's and or Devs and scamming new players and making them quit. says who impersonating a dev or GM was forbidden even before this change so I'm gonna have to see some proof for your claim here Sit in JITA and watch local or any of the new start systems share logs, I've never seen somebody pretend to be a dev or GM in jita also scamming newbies in the starter systems has long been classified as forbidden griefing by CCP, so yeah that's not it either
care to try again? |
John Ryuk
C0NC0RD P0LICE DEPT.
0
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 01:03:00 -
[826] - Quote
James Fnord wrote:John Ryuk wrote:Sirane Elrek wrote:John Ryuk wrote:Anyway, this change was brought around do to people impersonating, CCP GM's and or Devs and scamming new players and making them quit. says who impersonating a dev or GM was forbidden even before this change so I'm gonna have to see some proof for your claim here Sit in JITA and watch local or any of the new start systems Right, you seem to be offering no proof at all, so I'm going to make the call that you're talking out of your posterior. I just told you where to find proof and you still call BS, Well I can't fix stupid. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
13720
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 01:03:00 -
[827] - Quote
John Ryuk wrote:Sirane Elrek wrote:John Ryuk wrote:Anyway, this change was brought around do to people impersonating, CCP GM's and or Devs and scamming new players and making them quit. says who impersonating a dev or GM was forbidden even before this change so I'm gonna have to see some proof for your claim here Sit in JITA and watch local or any of the new start systems Currently in Jita, can't see anybody impersonating Devs, GMs or ISD members. There's some folks shooting at the statue, plenty of "isk doublers" impersonating Erotica1 (the only honest Isk doubler), and plenty of contracts misrepresenting what they actually contain. I am furnishing this post "as is" I do not provide any warranty whatsoever, whether express, implied, or statutory, including, but not limited to, any relevance or fitness for purpose or any warranty that the contents herein are error-free.
Article 8 is ToSh |
probag Bear
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 01:05:00 -
[828] - Quote
Sirane Elrek wrote:John Ryuk wrote:Sirane Elrek wrote:John Ryuk wrote:Anyway, this change was brought around do to people impersonating, CCP GM's and or Devs and scamming new players and making them quit. says who impersonating a dev or GM was forbidden even before this change so I'm gonna have to see some proof for your claim here Sit in JITA and watch local or any of the new start systems share logs, I've never seen somebody pretend to be a dev or GM in jita also scamming newbies in the starter systems has long been classified as forbidden griefing by CCP, so yeah that's not it either care to try again?
Here you go:
n++[ 2013.09.11 23:49:41 ] John Ryuk > Thats cool, BTW I'm a GM, so let me just find that report |
Sid Hudgens
Totally not an NPC Corp
145
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 01:06:00 -
[829] - Quote
Sirane Elrek wrote:Sid Hudgens wrote:Foul language and hate speech is "explicitly forbidden" and rarely acted upon ... so this would seem to be arbitrary. Why are people not as upset about this clause? GMs actually hand out temporary mutes quite happily if somebody makes them aware of it, so it does get acted upon. They don't pull out the big guns and outright ban people if somebody goes around and calls Ev0ke *****, but it gets sanctioned. (But since CCP probably don't have the manpower to continually watch all chat channels, this depends on people writing petitions.)
Fair enough. I haven't seen much of this personally but I'm willing to stipulate that you may have played a lot more EVE than I have and have certainly done it with a larger group of people. (Thus giving you access to far more anecdotal evidence... which is all we have in this case since CCP doesn't disclose data on this stuff.)
So people have received minor sanctions for what most I'm sure most reasonable people would consider minor violations. People have received minor sanctions (name changes, etc.) for previous violations of what CCP claims to be the exact same policy. Is there any reason to believe that they're going to go off the deep end now? Or would it be more reasonable to think that they will reserve the ban-hammer for extreme cases? (I'm thinking of the recent incident where the wiki was edited to portray a scammer as someone who was vetted as a trusted party by CCP representatives?) "....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced." |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4542
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 01:07:00 -
[830] - Quote
Sirane Elrek wrote:John Ryuk wrote:Sirane Elrek wrote:John Ryuk wrote:Anyway, this change was brought around do to people impersonating, CCP GM's and or Devs and scamming new players and making them quit. says who impersonating a dev or GM was forbidden even before this change so I'm gonna have to see some proof for your claim here Sit in JITA and watch local or any of the new start systems share logs, I've never seen somebody pretend to be a dev or GM in jita also scamming newbies in the starter systems has long been classified as forbidden griefing by CCP, so yeah that's not it either care to try again? You're a goon, you're just scared There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
|
John Ryuk
C0NC0RD P0LICE DEPT.
0
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 01:09:00 -
[831] - Quote
probag Bear wrote:Sirane Elrek wrote:John Ryuk wrote:Sirane Elrek wrote:John Ryuk wrote:Anyway, this change was brought around do to people impersonating, CCP GM's and or Devs and scamming new players and making them quit. says who impersonating a dev or GM was forbidden even before this change so I'm gonna have to see some proof for your claim here Sit in JITA and watch local or any of the new start systems share logs, I've never seen somebody pretend to be a dev or GM in jita also scamming newbies in the starter systems has long been classified as forbidden griefing by CCP, so yeah that's not it either care to try again? Here you go: n++[ 2013.09.11 23:49:41 ] John Ryuk > Thats cool, BTW I'm a GM, so let me just find that report Edit: n++[ 2013.09.11 23:50:40 ] John Ryuk > probag Bear I closed the ticket, Mwah n++[ 2013.09.12 00:02:34 ] John Ryuk > especially since I'm screen printing this whole conversation n++[ 2013.09.12 00:02:48 ] John Ryuk > and sending it in n++[ 2013.09.12 00:05:54 ] John Ryuk > probag Bear lol GM Shirmad just called me out those, I told him 1 hour ban for each report lol
Lol theres your proof and stop impersonating a bear, we have been threw this |
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
185
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 01:11:00 -
[832] - Quote
John Ryuk wrote:Anyway, this change was brought around do to people impersonating, CCP GM's and or Devs and scamming new players and making them quit.
This is likley not to be enforced unless you try impersonating CCP or it's staff. So can we please let this die and stop beating a dead horse. No it's not.
It's brought around and actively enforced due to characters impersonating other "mundane" characters and their organizations. Like trusted third party services and major gambling cartels. Policy is being dictated by corporate lobbying and gangs now.
EvE is REAL Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38 |
Sirane Elrek
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
201
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 01:15:00 -
[833] - Quote
Sid Hudgens wrote:Is there any reason to believe that they're going to go off the deep end now? Or would it be more reasonable to think that they will reserve the ban-hammer for extreme cases? Oh I'm not going to pretend CCP will start to ban me if I go around and tell people I'm in fact GSF Logistics Director Kismeteer/PL Chief Angry Person Grath Telkin/Trustworthy Third Party Darknesss. But scamming requires people to be liberal with the truth, and since scamming people with more money than sense has a long tradition in EVE, I'm against any rule change that will curb this. (Especially since checking with Kismeteer/Grath/Darknesss if I'm really him is as trivial as sending him a message.) |
John Ryuk
C0NC0RD P0LICE DEPT.
1
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 01:17:00 -
[834] - Quote
So, time for me to stop trolling, As you can see by all my previous post there has been plently of posts, evidence, pretending to impersonate etc etc.
This has all been done to prove, that this rule is not likely to be highley enforced as I'm still here, It's at discreation.
Thought I would like to say this toon will probley be banned to prove a point by the GM's.
But stop worrying about this UNTIL it becomes a problem.
I'm out |
Bayushi Tamago
Lost soulz
54
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 01:18:00 -
[835] - Quote
http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/eve-online-terms-of-service-update-1/ What was this news bit meant to accomplish? All it's done is repeat the same thing again, which as we all know is inappropriately vague. |
Le Creed
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
12
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 01:18:00 -
[836] - Quote
John Ryuk wrote:So, time for me to stop trolling, As you can see by all my previous post there has been plently of posts, evidence, pretending to impersonate etc etc.
This has all been done to prove, that this rule is not likely to be highley enforced as I'm still here, It's at discreation.
Thought I would like to say this toon will probley be banned to prove a point by the GM's.
But stop worrying about this UNTIL it becomes a problem.
I'm out You will die a martyr. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
4101
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 01:19:00 -
[837] - Quote
John Ryuk wrote:It's against Federal Law to smoke Marijuan-a yet they do it in WA and CO, but the federal law is rarley enforced, but you push your luck then the local pd can charge you with a federal charge instead of a state charge to make it stick.
This rule is likely to be rarley enforced unless someone pushes there luck.
It's a legal tool at there desposial if they need to use it.
Local law enforcement officers are not in any way empowered to enforce federal law, just like Federal law enforcement officers are not empowered to enforce state law (absent special agreement, i.e. many NPS LE Rangers are deputized by the local LE dept).
The Local Police officer who tried to arrest you for something that is not against any law he can enforce would be setting his department up to lose a significant lawsuit.
In addition, Law enforcement actions are public. GM actions are not. The public can find out how often the local PD is illegally holding pot users for the FBI. The public cannot find out how often GMs are doing anything nor can we find out for what reason they're doing it.
The legal tools at their disposal that covers "I want to ban someone in a fit of pique" and related offenses are found in TOS sections 25 and 26.
Anyway, why do you think it should be against the rules to associate your alt and main? "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ |
Sid Hudgens
Totally not an NPC Corp
145
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 01:21:00 -
[838] - Quote
Georgina Parmala wrote:Sid Hudgens wrote: What about the catch-all clause? Have they ever used that once? Have that used that one twice? Which is the bigger threat?
You didn't play blink around the time this happened, did you? There were dozens of people watching the blink winners making scam contracts insinuating the person got a double-win but would either scam isk or the item they won. Then suddenly it stopped, and it's not because no one was falling for it any more (despite blink making people aware of the scams being around) You are also reading into the wording of my example and not the context. Every text box in the game is now a torch waiting for a spark. Lets take your bio for example: Quote:Hi pubbieswarm!
Meet the new goons, same as the old BOB. Meet the new goons eh, sounds to me like you are impersonating a goon.
Well ... I've had many extended "breaks" from EVE so I'm not familiar with the incident with the blink winners. But I think you just made my argument for me? Not sure what's happening here....
Regarding the Bio:
Wow, I forgot I even had one. I really need to update that. The whole Goons=Bob thing was, I admit, already tired when I put it in there ... but with the new rental empire and everything the goonies have really owned that one and rode it into the ground. I don't, however, think that I'll be banned because someone thinks I'm using that bio to impersonate goons. If I was banned for that you guys would then have some real ammo for your argument.
If I do get banned then I won't be here to concede that you were all right and this was a big deal and something to get all worked up about. I'm not real worried about it though. "....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced." |
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
185
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 01:23:00 -
[839] - Quote
Sirane Elrek wrote:Sid Hudgens wrote:Is there any reason to believe that they're going to go off the deep end now? Or would it be more reasonable to think that they will reserve the ban-hammer for extreme cases? Oh I'm not going to pretend CCP will start to ban me if I go around and tell people I'm in fact GSF Logistics Director Kismeteer/PL Chief Angry Person Grath Telkin/Trustworthy Third Party Darknesss. But scamming requires people to be liberal with the truth, and since scamming people with more money than sense has a long tradition in EVE, I'm against any rule change that will curb this. (Especially since checking with Kismeteer/Grath/Darknesss if I'm really him is as trivial as sending an evemail and waiting for the reply.) Yet even if said people are ok with you using their name, the victim can petition to get his stuff back and get you a warning, if not a temp ban, because you misrepresented yourself with malicious intent.
Cold, harsh universe 2012Gäó RIP
As far as I recall (correct me if that's changed) even Blizzard only returns the content of your pillaged guild bank if someone gets keylogged and a person other than the account owner does the crime. Not when you just gone derped and handed it over to a dishonest player. Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38 |
Echo Echoplex
71
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 01:36:00 -
[840] - Quote
John Ryuk wrote:So, time for me to stop trolling, As you can see by all my previous post there has been plently of posts, evidence, pretending to impersonate etc etc.
This has all been done to prove, that this rule is not likely to be highley enforced as I'm still here, It's at discreation.
Thought I would like to say this toon will probley be banned to prove a point by the GM's.
But stop worrying about this UNTIL it becomes a problem.
I'm out You're # 7,433,102,996,099 on the list. Sit tight, they'll get to you. Untutored courage is useless in the face of educated bullets. Gen. George S. Patton |
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