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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Mole Guy
Xoth Inc
377
   |
Posted - 2013.09.28 05:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
people should get suspect timers and be able to be shot for scanning someone. it is an act of aggression.
you guys have it set so that any punk can walk around looking in peoples cars and telling their buddies whats in it so it can be burglarized.
when in actuality, they would be accessories to the fact, they would be arrested and charged with the crime too.
so why shouldnt people who sit in dodixie or jita or any of the trade routes using an out of corp alt and talking on ts to scan passers-bye and report on which ship to hit be charged with the crime too?
they should be able to be shot by anyone.
CCP: you want ships to explode? you want people to be able to do as they please? then let us defend ourselves. give us the tools to blast those people (all participants) in the act.
i got kill rights activated on me the other day in dodixie. i was there to sell a ship. it had nothing on it except rigs.
they bumped me off station and i lost a cnr.
MY BAD...that was on me. it was a good clean kill.
fast forward to today. my alt undocked from jita with a hauler. it was scanned by a criminal i can do nothing too and popped by someone else.
this is an exploit.
there is no penalty for doing this in eve, when there would be irl. i dont mind the high sec ganking, folks do it irl. but there is a penalty for ALL involved. not just gang members, but scouts, informants...everyone.
had there been a method where the scanning ship would have agressed, then i could have shot him. we could start to note who are known scanning ships and prelock them. or at least we would know and we could hunt them down.
i have made this suggestion several times. this isnt a ***** session. |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
1212
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 06:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
Don't think so |
Zappity
Kurved Space
471
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 07:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
Exploit? There is a module specifically for this purpose. Doesn't sound like an exploit to me.
How much was your cargo worth? How much does it cost to gank your freighter? Hint: there is generally a correlation between these and gank probability.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
Arya Regnar
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
239
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 07:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
Good lord these carebears really want to turn eve online into hello kitty online with friendship and magic.
How about we as well make mining, mission running and incursions into a criminal offense to reintroduce risk to this game for everyone.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
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Roime
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Samurai Pizza Cats
3507
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Posted - 2013.09.28 07:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
Arya Regnar wrote:Good lord these carebears really want to turn eve online into hello kitty online with friendship and magic.
How about we as well make mining, mission running and incursions into a criminal offense to reintroduce risk to this game for everyone.
Since you guys have the tendency to apply real life morals to EVE lets compare it this way.
It's criminal to steal from a car but looking through the windows in a parking lot only gives you stare downs, name calling and the others will frown upon you. Doesn't get you into jail does it?
No I don't think real life laws should apply to eve either way.
If you want to punish bad intents to the point where you would make suicide ganking impossible then this is not the game for you.
Well suggesting ship scanning to be made an aggression is not really as much carebearing as wanting to keep it safe.
Ship scanning has only offensive purpose in the game, so yes, it should cause a suspect timer.
Seriously,we won't be bringing back the old unique ships for events. We might give other stuff away that is interesting, but no Guardian Vexor, Opux Luxury Yacht, Fedthron, Impoc, SIR, etc, etc.-á |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
212
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 07:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
I like, it's reasonable.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Zappity
Kurved Space
471
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 07:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
A limited engagement timer would probably be more suitable.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
White Mountain Coalition
404
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 08:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
No, the best way to avoid being a target is to think like the aggressor, they want shiny loot to drop, so fit for tank, not hold space and make sure that your cargo is not worth anything more than 5 times the value of your hull.
Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Mole Guy
Xoth Inc
378
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 08:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
Zappity wrote:A limited engagement timer would probably be more suitable.
this would be acceptable.
i normally dont deal with timers because normally, i live in null.
but i do deal with high sec from time to time.
we have been recouping in low sec for a while, but hopefully, we will be back in null or i will be in worm holes.
we dont do timers there, we kill everything that isnt blue, purple or green.
either way, to scan someone has one intent, to cause them harm or report to those who would cause them harm.
it doesnt matter my cargo or the size of my ship.
right is right. from a shuttle to a freighter. if you scan it, you intend it harm.
maybe my use of criminal or suspect may not be correct, but a limited engagement was the intended result. something that would allow me to shoot anyone active scanning my ship or cargo. |
Humang
Sefem Velox
Swift Angels Alliance
21
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 08:49:00 -
[10] - Quote
Arya Regnar wrote:Since you guys have the tendency to apply real life morals to EVE lets compare it this way.
It's criminal to steal from a car but looking through the windows in a parking lot only gives you stare downs, name calling and the others will frown upon you. Doesn't get you into jail does it?
Perfect analogy, and I agree with it.
Plus there are ways to avoid ship scanners: Put the valuable items in cargo containers in your cargo-hold, If you are ship-scanned by someone, change your route to avoid the next system or two. And don't afk auto-pilot.
The less effort something requires, the less secure it becomes, as it should be.
Witty Comment Here |
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Darling Hassasin
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
20
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Posted - 2013.09.28 08:55:00 -
[11] - Quote
Humang wrote:Arya Regnar wrote:Since you guys have the tendency to apply real life morals to EVE lets compare it this way.
It's criminal to steal from a car but looking through the windows in a parking lot only gives you stare downs, name calling and the others will frown upon you. Doesn't get you into jail does it? Perfect analogy, and I agree with it. Plus there are ways to avoid ship scanners: Put the valuable items in cargo containers in your cargo-hold, If you are ship-scanned by someone, change your route to avoid the next system or two. And don't afk auto-pilot. The less effort something requires, the less secure it becomes, as it should be.
Umm actually you are feeding them now because to change route you need to knwo you are being scanned and you wont know that unless its made an agressive action (passive targetter mkay?)
My issue with the OP is that this will merely cause more noob ship with 5k isk mod losses on the empire ganking side of things OR if it transpires that people see it and cancel warp or something it may lead to gankers ganking indiscriminatively.
Is this a good thing? You have sort of a system now where less than a bill in a freighter you are safe-ish whereas more than 3-4 bill you are effed. With this change it will just be a lottery. All areas of EvE where they have changed certainties with lotteries (example ECM) have suffered from it by and large. EvE is a chess like game with a like minded playerbase (certainly the ones who stick with it). If you make it a baggamon type of game you lose chess palyers imo...
On the other hand its not such a major issue and I wont oppose progress on uncertain fears :P
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Humang
Sefem Velox
Swift Angels Alliance
21
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Posted - 2013.09.28 10:27:00 -
[12] - Quote
As far as I know you can hear it as a 'clicking' noise or similar when you are ship-scanned, but I would agree that it is a bit unnoticeable at times.
I would concede to having it obvious that you are being scanned, just not making it give a criminal flag.
Witty Comment Here |
Mole Guy
Xoth Inc
378
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 10:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
Humang wrote:Arya Regnar wrote:Since you guys have the tendency to apply real life morals to EVE lets compare it this way.
It's criminal to steal from a car but looking through the windows in a parking lot only gives you stare downs, name calling and the others will frown upon you. Doesn't get you into jail does it? Perfect analogy, and I agree with it. Plus there are ways to avoid ship scanners: Put the valuable items in cargo containers in your cargo-hold, If you are ship-scanned by someone, change your route to avoid the next system or two. And don't afk auto-pilot. The less effort something requires, the less secure it becomes, as it should be.
wrong!
if you are part of the criminal process, you will burn for it just the same.
if you are looking to look, thats one thing, but if you tell someone so they can break in, thats actively participating and it is a criminal offense.
something to let you know would be one thing, one could dock back up assuming they heard it. a visual thing would be a good addition to it. something for us hearing impaired. |
Samillian
Angry Mustellid
318
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 10:58:00 -
[14] - Quote
Not supported.
If you want to avoid being scanned best to use a Blockade Runner, which of course comes with its own risks. I would be more in favour of a mid-slot module that blocked or decreased the efficiency of scanning while running than additions to Crimewatch mechanics.
NBSI shall be the whole of the Law |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
212
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 11:00:00 -
[15] - Quote
Humang wrote:The less effort something requires, the less secure it becomes, as it should be.
That's fine for cargo scanning, but there's nothing you can do with respect to cloaking ship modules. Any type of scanning outside of a fleet or corporation (maybe not?) should trigger a limited engagement.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
876
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Posted - 2013.09.28 11:08:00 -
[16] - Quote
Mole Guy wrote:you guys have it set so that any punk can walk around looking in peoples cars and telling their buddies whats in it so it can be burglarized. when in actuality, they would be accessories to the fact, they would be arrested and charged with the crime too.
Where, exactly, is looking through a car's windows a criminal offence? |
Daichi Yamato
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
790
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 11:13:00 -
[17] - Quote
how do u prove someone isnt just looking to look and is in fact giving info to bad guys?
if i'm seen looking into someones car and then walk away. the police will not arrest me. if that car is then burgled, the police may come and ask me a few questions, but they'd have a hard time proving that i was involved.
so at best, the scanner should only be a suspect AFTER the gank has taken place.
and yes, scanners have an animation and sound. so u dnt need a flag to tell u that u've been scanned.
i dnt like this idea in general, but i also want to ask: What if scanning for contraband becomes a player activity? How do player custom enforcers scan other ppls ships for illegal items without going suspect or entering limited engagements all the time?
i not that bothered by ur own responses, but i'm aware CCP have thought about this and i'm pointing out that this idea would ruin it.
There are no vets in EVE. Only varying levels of Noobery. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
212
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 11:22:00 -
[18] - Quote
If we're using analogies, scanning is 'more than looking inside a car window'; it's akin to also capturing the license plate and VIN numbers. So in that sense, I think the intent is pretty clear. It means that if you scan - you takes your chances. 
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Mocam
EVE University
Ivy League
302
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 11:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
No.
I'd be more into seeing cloaked ships able to scan than making scanning a criminal act.
Seriously. Some privacy I can see being important but if you're flying with junk or a fortune - their ability to see this should be shown so *SKILL* and *TACTICS* are used.
Lame pukes popping ships for lulz is just that - lame. This is not what scanning ships to determine worth by assessing risks & costs is about. Scanning is a skilled form of piracy.
All this suggestion would do is drop piracy activities back down to just the drooling half-wits that blow stuff up "because they can" vs those who actually plan their efforts and pick targets for logical, profit oriented reasons.
Such "dumbing down" of interactions is something I'm firmly against. More thought, more penalties, more strategic and tactical planning - good things to see and removal of this is not helpful and won't stop random ganks by the half-wits. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
212
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 11:33:00 -
[20] - Quote
Mocam wrote:I'd be more into seeing cloaked ships able to scan than making scanning a criminal act.
Sure, that works - and would only trigger a limited engagement if you're uncloaked (essentially you're detected).
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
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HiddenPorpoise
BG-1
The Craniac
73
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Posted - 2013.09.28 11:47:00 -
[21] - Quote
Mole Guy wrote:you guys have it set so that any punk can walk around looking in peoples cars and telling their buddies whats in it so it can be burglarized.
Good god, is this Florida now?
Since when can you shoot people for looking at things? |
Daichi Yamato
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
790
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 11:49:00 -
[22] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:If we're using analogies, scanning is 'more than looking inside a car window'; it's akin to also capturing the license plate and VIN numbers. So in that sense, I think the intent is pretty clear. It means that if you scan - you takes your chances.
not really. u dnt take the reg of a ship by scanning it. u look at what its carrying. when i look in a tescos van i can see its carrying food and household goods. it is also not an offense to look at it.
however, if someone wants to protect the identity of what they are carrying, they can through the use of containers. Kinda like what happens with valuable or secret items in RL.
the only reason ur vulnerable to scanning is because ur lazy and/or stupid. u deserve to get ganked if u think about it.
There are no vets in EVE. Only varying levels of Noobery. |
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
479
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 13:12:00 -
[23] - Quote
Mole Guy wrote:people should get suspect timers and be able to be shot for scanning someone. it is an act of aggression.
You OBVIOUSLY don't do any form of PvP or meaningful fleet combat (or even significant PvE, like incursions). Ship scanners are essential to ensure that a fleet doesn't have the wrong modules fit.
Maybe if you were less shortsighted, you wouldn't undock with a cargo full of expensive stuff and then blame a game mechanic when you got popped. |
chaosgrimm
Universal Production and Networking Services
24
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Posted - 2013.09.28 13:23:00 -
[24] - Quote
Humang wrote:Arya Regnar wrote:Since you guys have the tendency to apply real life morals to EVE lets compare it this way.
It's criminal to steal from a car but looking through the windows in a parking lot only gives you stare downs, name calling and the others will frown upon you. Doesn't get you into jail does it? Perfect analogy, and I agree with it. Plus there are ways to avoid ship scanners: Put the valuable items in cargo containers in your cargo-hold, If you are ship-scanned by someone, change your route to avoid the next system or two. And don't afk auto-pilot. The less effort something requires, the less secure it becomes, as it should be.
I don't think this is a good example. Looking into car windows would similar to checking out the guns someone has equipped based on the wep models. Cargo scanning might be compared to viewing the content of the car's trunk where there is some expectation of privacy. |
Silvetica Dian
Manson Family
105
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 13:45:00 -
[25] - Quote
Mole Guy wrote:people should get suspect timers and be able to be shot for scanning someone. it is an act of aggression.
you guys have it set so that any punk can walk around looking in peoples cars and telling their buddies whats in it so it can be burglarized.
when in actuality, they would be accessories to the fact, they would be arrested and charged with the crime too.
so why shouldnt people who sit in dodixie or jita or any of the trade routes using an out of corp alt and talking on ts to scan passers-bye and report on which ship to hit be charged with the crime too?
they should be able to be shot by anyone.
CCP: you want ships to explode? you want people to be able to do as they please? then let us defend ourselves. give us the tools to blast those people (all participants) in the act.
i got kill rights activated on me the other day in dodixie. i was there to sell a ship. it had nothing on it except rigs.
they bumped me off station and i lost a cnr.
MY BAD...that was on me. it was a good clean kill.
fast forward to today. my alt undocked from jita with a hauler. it was scanned by a criminal i can do nothing too and popped by someone else.
this is an exploit.
there is no penalty for doing this in eve, when there would be irl. i dont mind the high sec ganking, folks do it irl. but there is a penalty for ALL involved. not just gang members, but scouts, informants...everyone.
had there been a method where the scanning ship would have agressed, then i could have shot him. we could start to note who are known scanning ships and prelock them. or at least we would know and we could hunt them down.
i have made this suggestion several times. this isnt a ***** session.
You haven't gone far enough. people are looking at your ship all the time thinking about making it explode. In a spaceship shooting game this is wrong and everyone on your overview should get suspect status.
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Arya Regnar
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
241
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 13:46:00 -
[26] - Quote
I have a fix for this problem.
Everyone in highsec gets suspect status.
Now you can kill everyone that looks at you in a weird way.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
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HardRockLife
War Decs Inc
4
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Posted - 2013.09.28 14:41:00 -
[27] - Quote
Why not just disable the copy paste function and have the scan window close when some one is off grid?
Now if they want to gank you they have to market scour from either a screen shot or hope they got it right.
Or for real fun have it disable the counter and either show every individual item (yes please I want to hear the best computer is given to the guy doing the least ) or just give a short list and you dont know how much is present.
Ganking should not be disallowed the issue is that the ganker cant be stopped until its to late to save the freighter.
Therefore we are stuck in this conundrum of a real time game without being able to defend yourself from a very obvious action.
Which kind of breaks the whole thing. |
SOL Ranger
SOL.
28
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Posted - 2013.09.28 14:55:00 -
[28] - Quote
chaosgrimm wrote:
I don't think this is a good example. Looking into car windows would similar to checking out the guns someone has equipped based on the wep models. Cargo scanning might be compared to viewing the content of the car's trunk where there is some expectation of privacy.
I agree, you can ogle the ships as much as you want visually, internally scanning ships is a hostile act no doubt, if detected; What I'm insinuating is maybe there should exist a risk of being exposed and additionally a spy craft which specifically do scans of ships undetected, this has no doubt been voiced before but here goes.
Ship and scanner properties:
High SP requirements.
Scanner success/partial success and failure all dependant on sensor strength formulas in a linear manner.
Scanner full success provides full data on target.(usually only on smaller craft)
Scanner partial success provides fragmented/inaccurate data, which can be improved with subsequent scans.
Scanner subsequent scans increase risk of failure/detection, preferably not chance based but RNG could be used.
Failure/detection exposes the craft and it is then considered a thief and can be freely engaged.
The ship:
Beholder
Role: Covert Ops Spy Frigate
Role Bonus:
+100% to Cargo Scanner and Ship Scanner effectiveness.
Minmatar Frigate Skill Bonus:
5% bonus to Small Projectile Turret Damage per level
10% bonus to Small Projectile Turret Optimal Range per level
Covert Ops Skill Bonus:
20% reduced CPU need for Cloaking Devices per level
10% increase to scan strength of probes per level
10% reduction to survey probe flight time per level
Notes:
Can fit covert ops cloaks and covert cynosural field generators. Cloak reactivation delay reduced to 5 seconds.
Can use Cargo Scanner and Ship Scanner when cloaked.
Both Ship Scanner and Cargo Scanner would need to be overhauled so they provide partial/inaccurate data only per cycle highly dependant on sensor strength, there are many ways to do this, one way would be to just show some of cargo/statistics per cycle, another would be to scramble the statistics values a bit and further scans would reduce the error to a median.
Results:
Scanners no longer in most cases give out full/accurate data immediately.
Dedicated high SP characters can become very effective spies.
Prolonged/careless scans on protected vessels will get you blown up.
Common ships would be able to get rudimentary data without getting detected, however further prying will expose them, a spy craft would be rarely detected and if it was it would be because it insisted on a prolonged scan on a high sensor strength ship. |
Humang
Sefem Velox
Swift Angels Alliance
21
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 15:05:00 -
[29] - Quote
chaosgrimm wrote:I don't think this is a good example. Looking into car windows would similar to checking out the guns someone has equipped based on the wep models. Cargo scanning might be compared to viewing the content of the car's trunk where there is some expectation of privacy.
It could be bent ether way, I could argue that to view the boot, you would have to force your way in, while looking into the car for valuables is simply passive observation, but I understand what you are getting at, so its a mute point.
I hate to say it, but I could suggest that if a ship is cargo-scanned by person A, and then fleet B pop him down the chain, then give person A a suspect timer, for participating; but that could also be abused to an extent also.
Witty Comment Here |
Iome Ambraelle
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
67
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 17:35:00 -
[30] - Quote
The car analogy isn't quite applicable here. It's not that the lookout is glancing through the car windows to see what's sitting in plain view. In the case of cargo scanners, it more akin to popping open the trunk and seeing what's inside it. For ship scanners it would be like popping open the hood to see what kind of engine and accessories you have installed. It's pretty different really.
Forum refresh for the win. Several people beat me to it. ^^^
Shield Tanking - Why armor tanking can't have nice things. |
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