Good lord these carebears really want to turn eve online into hello kitty online with friendship and magic.

How about we as well make mining, mission running and incursions into a criminal offense to reintroduce risk to this game for everyone.

Since you guys have the tendency to apply real life morals to EVE lets compare it this way.
It's criminal to steal from a car but looking through the windows in a parking lot only gives you stare downs, name calling and the others will frown upon you. Doesn't get you into jail does it?

No I don't think real life laws should apply to eve either way.
If you want to punish bad intents to the point where you would make suicide ganking impossible then this is not the game for you.

A limited engagement timer would probably be more suitable.

Since you guys have the tendency to apply real life morals to EVE lets compare it this way.
It's criminal to steal from a car but looking through the windows in a parking lot only gives you stare downs, name calling and the others will frown upon you. Doesn't get you into jail does it?

Perfect analogy, and I agree with it.
Plus there are ways to avoid ship scanners: Put the valuable items in cargo containers in your cargo-hold, If you are ship-scanned by someone, change your route to avoid the next system or two. And don't afk auto-pilot.

The less effort something requires, the less secure it becomes, as it should be.

Perfect analogy, and I agree with it.
Plus there are ways to avoid ship scanners: Put the valuable items in cargo containers in your cargo-hold, If you are ship-scanned by someone, change your route to avoid the next system or two. And don't afk auto-pilot.

The less effort something requires, the less secure it becomes, as it should be.

The less effort something requires, the less secure it becomes, as it should be.

you guys have it set so that any punk can walk around looking in peoples cars and telling their buddies whats in it so it can be burglarized. when in actuality, they would be accessories to the fact, they would be arrested and charged with the crime too.

I'd be more into seeing cloaked ships able to scan than making scanning a criminal act.

you guys have it set so that any punk can walk around looking in peoples cars and telling their buddies whats in it so it can be burglarized.

If we're using analogies, scanning is 'more than looking inside a car window'; it's akin to also capturing the license plate and VIN numbers. So in that sense, I think the intent is pretty clear. It means that if you scan - you takes your chances.

people should get suspect timers and be able to be shot for scanning someone. it is an act of aggression.

Perfect analogy, and I agree with it.
Plus there are ways to avoid ship scanners: Put the valuable items in cargo containers in your cargo-hold, If you are ship-scanned by someone, change your route to avoid the next system or two. And don't afk auto-pilot.

The less effort something requires, the less secure it becomes, as it should be.

people should get suspect timers and be able to be shot for scanning someone. it is an act of aggression.

you guys have it set so that any punk can walk around looking in peoples cars and telling their buddies whats in it so it can be burglarized.
when in actuality, they would be accessories to the fact, they would be arrested and charged with the crime too.
so why shouldnt people who sit in dodixie or jita or any of the trade routes using an out of corp alt and talking on ts to scan passers-bye and report on which ship to hit be charged with the crime too?

they should be able to be shot by anyone.

CCP: you want ships to explode? you want people to be able to do as they please? then let us defend ourselves. give us the tools to blast those people (all participants) in the act.

i got kill rights activated on me the other day in dodixie. i was there to sell a ship. it had nothing on it except rigs.
they bumped me off station and i lost a cnr.

MY BAD...that was on me. it was a good clean kill.

fast forward to today. my alt undocked from jita with a hauler. it was scanned by a criminal i can do nothing too and popped by someone else.
this is an exploit.

there is no penalty for doing this in eve, when there would be irl. i dont mind the high sec ganking, folks do it irl. but there is a penalty for ALL involved. not just gang members, but scouts, informants...everyone.

had there been a method where the scanning ship would have agressed, then i could have shot him. we could start to note who are known scanning ships and prelock them. or at least we would know and we could hunt them down.

i have made this suggestion several times. this isnt a ***** session.

I don't think this is a good example. Looking into car windows would similar to checking out the guns someone has equipped based on the wep models. Cargo scanning might be compared to viewing the content of the car's trunk where there is some expectation of privacy.

I don't think this is a good example. Looking into car windows would similar to checking out the guns someone has equipped based on the wep models. Cargo scanning might be compared to viewing the content of the car's trunk where there is some expectation of privacy.

Well suggesting ship scanning to be made an aggression is not really as much carebearing as wanting to keep it safe.

Ship scanning has only offensive purpose in the game, so yes, it should cause a suspect timer.

Where, exactly, is looking through a car's windows a criminal offence?

not really. u dnt take the reg of a ship by scanning it. u look at what its carrying. when i look in a tescos van i can see its carrying food and household goods. it is also not an offense to look at it.

however, if someone wants to protect the identity of what they are carrying, they can through the use of containers. Kinda like what happens with valuable or secret items in RL.

the only reason ur vulnerable to scanning is because ur lazy and/or stupid. u deserve to get ganked if u think about it.

Well suggesting ship scanning to be made an aggression is not really as much carebearing as wanting to keep it safe.

Ship scanning has only offensive purpose in the game, so yes, it should cause a suspect timer.

It could be bent ether way, I could argue that to view the boot, you would have to force your way in, while looking into the car for valuables is simply passive observation, but I understand what you are getting at, so its a mute point.

I hate to say it, but I could suggest that if a ship is cargo-scanned by person A, and then fleet B pop him down the chain, then give person A a suspect timer, for participating; but that could be abused to an extent also.

OP undocked carrying more in a hauler than is wise. Gets blown up, blames the scanner.

This is new and original.

I have a fix for this problem.

Everyone in highsec gets suspect status.

Now you can kill everyone that looks at you in a weird way.

And that is better than CAREBEAR mode for gankers we got now. Trust me gankers would be first to dock in fear.

An angry rant with a forum violation in the first paragraph

I recommend you see a proctologist for all of that butthurt.

Oh, and quit the game. Clearly, the game you want to play is not EVE Online. I suggest you throw some money at Star Citizen, since that promises to be carebear heaven from all the crap I keep hearing about it.

What is Star Citizen?
Is it supposed to be like the Xseries?

No.

This is just weak sauce all around.

No.

Play better or go back to WoW.

No... just no.

I recommend you see a proctologist for all of that butthurt.

Oh, and quit the game. Clearly, the game you want to play is not EVE Online. I suggest you throw some money at Star Citizen, since that promises to be carebear heaven from all the crap I keep hearing about it.

And that is better than CAREBEAR mode for gankers we got now. Trust me gankers would be first to dock in fear.

how do u prove someone isnt just looking to look and is in fact giving info to bad guys?

if i'm seen looking into someones car and then walk away. the police will not arrest me. if that car is then burgled, the police may come and ask me a few questions, but they'd have a hard time proving that i was involved.

so at best, the scanner should only be a suspect AFTER the gank has taken place.

and yes, scanners have an animation and sound. so u dnt need a flag to tell u that u've been scanned.

i dnt like this idea in general, but i also want to ask: What if scanning for contraband becomes a player activity? How do player custom enforcers scan other ppls ships for illegal items without going suspect or entering limited engagements all the time?

i not that bothered by ur own responses, but i'm aware CCP have thought about this and i'm pointing out that this idea would ruin it.

Why i have to quit game i enjoy most of the time? Sure there few aspects about it i would change like thats what we are talking about. You look like someone with ganking alt or stuff like that. Clearly i touched you somewhere you did not want to be touched aka wallet and your stinking money from ganks in high sec.

You are **** thats all , go gank some mission runners in high sec , then go back to forums and tell others to stop play this game - since you know better how to play it. Right ...

im not asking for concord to come hit u, i just wanna be able to do it.

Exactly. This is supposed to be a "sandbox"; we're perfectly capable of handling this ourselves if given the right tools.

ooh, i dunno.
ive been playing since 03, i must wanna do something.
ive seen exploits come and go. whole entire corps banned for exploits.

this is a forum to suggest change.
and there is no butt hurt here. all i am asking is to defend myself. i can do it. i dont need concord.

beat it troll. just because i fly into jita once in a while doesnt mean i am a bear. it means i visited jita. if i were a bear, i would have a freighter. freighters dont get ganked all that much.

There is absolutely no way you can twist using ship/cargo scanners on a ship then communicating the results to a fleet into an exploit. Ship scanners exist for exactly this kind of purpose and the inability to use the knowledge gained by use of the scanner completely negates the point of fitting it in the first place.

By this logic it would be an exploit for me to use a ship scanner on a Bhaalghorn and tell my FC when a target's cap is dry because this will cause a change in primary targets to a ship that is more vulnerable than others.

If you don't want to get ganked there are ways to do it. If you are carrying large quantities of cheap things fit for cargo space because chances are it will not be worth ganking it and even if you do get ganked, it was cheap so you just get another one. When you must transport expensive things use a tanked and/or cloaking ship or hauler which doesn't mean you won't get ganked but will substantially reduce the chance of it working. Finally use an instaundock bookmark to get off the tradehub station and cloak/warp before anyone even gets a look at you.

If you care enough you can move basically anything in basically anything if you do it intelligently, you don't need CCP to cover for being lazy and the price of laziness is the occasional ship loss. If the ship loss in unacceptable to you then don't be lazy.

this would be acceptable.

But hen concord would have to gank itself once they'e scanned your cargo for contraband...

There is absolutely no way you can twist using ship/cargo scanners on a ship then communicating the results to a fleet into an exploit. Ship scanners exist for exactly this kind of purpose and the inability to use the knowledge gained by use of the scanner completely negates the point of fitting it in the first place.

By this logic it would be an exploit for me to use a ship scanner on a Bhaalghorn and tell my FC when a target's cap is dry because this will cause a change in primary targets to a ship that is more vulnerable than others.

If you don't want to get ganked there are ways to do it. If you are carrying large quantities of cheap things fit for cargo space because chances are it will not be worth ganking it and even if you do get ganked, it was cheap so you just get another one. When you must transport expensive things use a tanked and/or cloaking ship or hauler which doesn't mean you won't get ganked but will substantially reduce the chance of it working. Finally use an instaundock bookmark to get off the tradehub station and cloak/warp before anyone even gets a look at you.

If you care enough you can move basically anything in basically anything if you do it intelligently, you don't need CCP to cover for being lazy and the price of laziness is the occasional ship loss. If the ship loss in unacceptable to you then don't be lazy.

stuffs

Its a win-win for everyone involved EXCEPT the carebear scout whos too afraid to get his guns warm but still wants the loot. its pathetic really.

so even if scanners go suspect, the best counter to ganks are STILL and ALWAYS WILL BE:

1) carry less/take more trips
2) avoid dangerous systems
or failing both of those,
3) fly with scouts, logi, webbers, boosters and ECM buds.

...

The fact is that you now know you've been scanned (Cargo Scanned) and that person is now "Suspect" and you can make a note of who scanned you. If you wanted to take action you could, if any residents wanted to take action they could but everyone loves to pile on a suspect timer .

This isn't about avoiding the gank (which is unavoidable by because the scanner tells the gankers how many ships they need to pop you) it's about making people think twice before committing the intent to commit piracy. As noted before it is the intent to steal that "gank scanners" get away with, the gankers are dealt with by Concord or whatever as they go into "Criminal" flag and possibly lose they're ships (not that they are that bothered obviously).

Why should the cherry-picking-scanners get all the odds stacked in their favour? It's like asking for a Pod\Implant scanner to choose which Pods to ransom and how much to ransom for.

There is so much bad in this tread one can barely compute its magnitude. So let's look at it:

- Pirates mount an organized effort.
- Their scout monitors the traffic for prey and signals where it's going
- Fleet coordinates for an attack that has to destroy the targets within 10-15 seconds before CONCORD responds
- In the end, all ships are lost in the attack and the dropped module/cargo value is not guaranteed to cover said losses.

Prey:

- Wants to autopilot through hisec, likely AFK, no scout, with valuables in cargo, unaware of the fact that high-traffic routes are often camped.

I don't see a reason, none whatsoever, why odds shouldn't be massively stacked against the prey. If it was smart, it'd be flying a Blockade Runner, not be AFK and cloak on each jump. Flown properly those things are pretty much uncatchable in hisec.

Especially when there are already existing counters to the real problem most of u have (which is ganking, this whole thread is about ganking, not scanning.)

Well, I don't remember the last time I got arrested for looking into someone's car.
If you don't want your ship to be looked at, cloak.

I said before, that's what blockade runners are for. Fast, cloaky and immune to scanning.

Well, it's a sacrifice: cloak and safety/small hold vs. flying visible and getting scanned, big cargo. Working as intended.

Ganksquad goes all-in, always. They don't always get the loot. There's risk of failure, losing the loot or the target getting smart: taking a detour, docking and logging off upon getting scanned.

New Eden is supposed to be dangerous. Adapt or die - I'm sure someone will benefit from your demise.

So address the pre-cursor to the gank and stop taking this off topic if you would please. Tell me where is the risk to the scout\scanner in all this?

There is none. But that's the way gankers like it - no risk.
Scan ship/cargo - nothing valuable, find something else. Find something shiny, gank it.

Probably because it's not an inherently hostile action. Ship scanning is just that, it's not tackling, it's not aggression, it's just scanning.

The very existence of the passive scanner heavily implies that this action is supported by CCP. There's an entire category of mods specifically dedicated to enabling it.

Probably because it's not an inherently hostile action. Ship scanning is just that, it's not tackling, it's not aggression, it's just scanning.

The very existence of the passive scanner heavily implies that this action is supported by CCP. There's an entire category of mods specifically dedicated to enabling it.

-------------------------------
scanners and suspect flag??! wtf
From: Robert Caldera
Sent: 2013.09.30 13:53
To: Maximus Aerelius

there should be no risk for scanner since the actual risk appears in the instant of the gank, if any happens at all.
you can mitigate your risk being ganked by using proper ships like cloaky haulers or jump freighters.
I dont think suicide ganks should be made any harder to do, they were nerfed already too much.

---

Re: scanners and suspect flag??! wtf
From: Maximus Aerelius
Sent: 2013.09.30 14:07
To: Robert Caldera

Wow...

Post your comments in the Forum and not actually through IG mail? I've posted several posts in ways to which hauling could be improved e.g. extend the immune to cargo scanning to all T2 DST's and not just to Blockade Runners.

As I said in the thread it's the intent to steal hence the use of the scanning module. I'm not the OP but I'm just thrashing out the ideas behind his post.

I'll see you in the thread.

---

From: Robert Caldera
To: Maximus Aerelius
INBOX
Remove Label

no, any further nerf would make high sec hauling even more secure than it is now as people
already use unscannable cloaky haulers.
There should be no risk for scanners, you should be able to tell with no big issues if the
target is worth ganking or not, this is all right. No more safety for high sec needed, too much of it already.

i received this in my inbox..lol.

Well, I don't remember the last time I got arrested for looking into someone's car.
If you don't want your ship to be looked at, cloak.

Ganking is the symptom of which Cargo Scanning is the cause. You scan before you gank (if you're in it for the profit\loss I believe) and hence all the "Wahhh" in this thread.

ive never seen a bigger display of carebear crying!

"wahhh we wanna stealz yer stuff but dont wanna risk anything, please CCP i dont wanna lose T1 frig!!!!"

bunch of whining little scaredy-bears.

and put aside your personal agenda for like one second. this idea makes EVE, more EVE-y! its just a plain old cool idea and like many have said, its got real world roots.

and FFS, no one hauls AFK without having the money to back the loss.

AFK haulers rarely complain on the forums because they are too busy making serious bank and laughing at the ganker who thinks taking down one of his 15 freighters that day is a good way to make money.

There is none. But that's the way gankers like it - no risk.
Scan ship/cargo - nothing valuable, find something else. Find something shiny, gank it.

cry moar

That's an interesting and detailed rebuttal of the point made by Daichi Yamato.

Thinking about it, you should go into politics.

i like the idea of using scanning for espionage and for players being able to scan other players cargo holds for contraband. If something more solid can come from this idea that does not affect either of the mentioned careers, i'd probably be more inclined toward change.

But players don't scan others cargoholds for contraband as "Customs Officer" isn't a career path in EVE currently, they scan them to pick the juiciest cargo. I'm still thinking about this idea and what you added above though. My comments not a flame just more of an observation but give me an IG actual example of someone playing "Customs Officer" and I'll retract

containers and double wrapping cargo already nullify scans as well.

I am all for it.

Wouldn't stop me or people who fly with me,
but would put a stop to all these lazyass cowards sitting at gates doing nothing but scanning passers by.

Supported!

how would u tell if he was playing customs officer or gank scanner? they are one in the same. the gankers just have to say they have declared trit an illegal commodity and then gank anyone carrying it. all of a sudden they are customs agents.

the customs officer thing has been hinted at by CCP for a future development. Rather than having NPC's check player cargo, leaving it to other players who can flag ppl carrying what the sov holders consider contraband. maybe it was an idea just thrown out there, but i liked it.

its true the primary use of cargo scanners is to find good targets to gank. there are few other reasons to want to know what someone else is carrying. but the whole scanning process is all part of a meta game, like spying, and having cloaky alts to provide warp ins. i would prefer that u didnt go suspect for providing a warp in during a dec, even though u are an accessory to the attack. For all concord can tell, u are an innocent bystander. Just like ppl 'scoping out a joint' in the movies.

When it boils down to it, its not the scanning that ppl mind, its the ganking to which there are already ways to mitigate risk. The proposal does little to remedy ganking. containers and double wrapping cargo already nullify scans as well.

Caught you at work in *System Removed* last night...did chuckle a little.

That's an interesting and detailed rebuttal of the point made by Daichi Yamato.

Thinking about it, you should go into politics.

considering that the scanner is an alt, in free noob frig that can jump or warp the second the scan has gone through, how much risk do u think going suspect will add to the scanner? realistically? not a lot...all they have to do is dock with their pod to get another ship, fit a scanner and come straight back out again.


i'm saying this as a hauler myself, it accomplishes very little. u WILL just learn to ignore those scanning u just as u learn to ignore ninja salvagers.

fast forward to today. my alt undocked from jita with a hauler. it was scanned by a criminal i can do nothing too and popped by someone else.
this is an exploit.

umm quote me his "point" and ill be super erudite about responding to it. at the moment all i heard was "please dont shoot me!!"

You can't user "Future" as a reasonable argument. Future development isn't current IG.

People 'scoping out joints' are generally found, thrown up against a wall and charged with being an accessory or aiding and abetting I believe but we can't do that in EVE.

It's the scanning that leads to the ganking I'm afraid. If you didn't know for sure what was in it then how do you know that it'd be worth the cost\risk of actually ganking it? You wouldn't. Now some people do gank anything just for the lols and they will but most do it for profit and will only hit what they think will payback +profit on their loss.

As for the disposable alts mostly used for ganking...well there's a flaw in the system that this clearly highlights don't you think? The fact that ganking and the chars used are so disposable would highlight that to me.

We understand that the illusion of fitting against a gank can be achieved however you cannot stop a dedicated gank (and I don't mean two ships) which destroys your ship in 1 volley. So what can you do? Look to the root cause. What caused those 20 T2 fitted Catalysts with 14400 damage in Volley #1 to pick that particular hauler? I'll let you think on that for a bit.

I'm sorry but I don't follow the "warp in for a dec" analogy. You'll have to expand on that one or explain "dec" to me as could be a number of things.

your fault for not using an insta-undock. the first chance someone should get to scan you is when you break gate cloak your first jump out of jita

see, what a stupid reply.

it doesnt matter WHERE you get scanned. it matters that they DO scan you. once they do, no matter WHERE you are, you run the risk of being shot.

auto targeter, hot guns, when u go flashy, you pop. pretty soon, itll cost you 50-100 mill a day to run this operation. just think of how many ship you guys scan.. pop, pop, pop, pop

and im not a hauler. im not a pve guy. im not a pvper. im a person who does a little of all. when i fly somewhere, i expect to be able to defend myself. thats it.

i myself, will park my combat guys (i have multiple toons) in high traveled areas where they are camps and gank the gankers. i will make it my mission to cost you guys. because i can.
everytime you scan someone, pop.
its automatic. cant be avoided.

go get another ship. i will spend a couple weeks in high sec just for fun. rack up a noob ship kill log from hell. oh, btw...go get another ship.

1. Use a T2 Hauler which is immune to cargo scanners.
2. be immune to cargo scans.
3. ??????
4. PROFIT!

if u missed it, thats ur poor reading and comprehension skills. Everyone else understood it just fine.

Ah someone else who doesn't know what they are talking about\can't read 4 pages of a thread before posting in a thread. Go try and haul anything in T2 Blockade Runner at least once and then comment back after you've read the thread.

T2 Industrials are mentioned in-depth on Page 3 by myself.

Saying Blockade runners have little cargo is hardly mentioning something in-depth.

They made ships with special roles for a reason.
In a Blockade Runner, noone will be able to scan you.

Even in a T1 Hauler with a Cloak noone will be able to scan you if you aren't stupid.
So how is getting scanned a problem? This thread is almost as pathetic as the make highsec safer thread.

But I still like the idea on the limited engagement for scanning. I'd love to be able to shoot freighters anywhere at anytime.

it doesnt matter WHERE you get scanned. it matters that they DO scan you. once they do, no matter WHERE you are, you run the risk of being shot.

no matter where u are u run the risk of getting shot by undocking...

no matter where u are u run the risk of getting shot by undocking...

which is fair enough.

i'm just stressing what i believe is the root cause of ganking: Undocking in something that might be worth ganking

Maximus Aerelius, fit a MWD, fit a Cloak. Be immune to Cargo Scanners if you're smart enough to use insta undocks and similar smart things.

which is fair enough.

i'm just stressing what i believe is the root cause of ganking: Undocking in something that might be worth ganking

im afraid this statement isnt correct.

the root cause of gankings are pieces of crap who cant go earn a buck for themselves. they would rather sit somewhere where there is no risk for them and shoot defenseless things and take.

i rat, i build, i go in worm holes and do gas or mine, run sites, i do a wide variety of things to positively contribute.
i have given away tons of rigs from salvage to noobs who cant afford to buy stuff for their new ship.

this is MY play style. this is how *I* like to play. i am not saying everyone else has too, but *I* get the most enjoyment out of helping others.

gankers are afraid to go somewhere where they might be targeted and chased down. they sit in high secuntil they find something easy to steal. of course, with my 10 years of military, i find this and those who do it to be the lowest forms of life, but thats *THEIR* play style.

all i am asking for is the ability to hold accountable *ALL* people involved with the process.
if the scanner has to reship every 3 seconds and has to buy cargo scanners every 3 seconds, itll eventually break them. i would shoot the wreck so the scanner couldnt be reused. every scan....pop.

every
time.

you play your way, make it right so i can patrol and defend the weak against the lazy.

No surprise but I have to agree with Mole Guy. If they have to scrap alts because they got popped for scanning by someone and have to do thta so often it will eventually turn into either you get "Professional Scanners" as a career (a new career path perhaps) or people get so sick of creating new chars that they no longer use disposable alts.

I, personally, have never seen the joy in ganking haulers\cargo runners. It seems cowardly and bottom feeding to me but that's my opinion. You bite the hand that feeds you and you're going to starve...

I'm all for cause and consequence as well and if I went around breaking the locks on truck doors in a freight yard I'd expect security to say "OI! WTF do you think you're doing" and then the big hairy arsed trucker driver to come out and kick my arse (or at least the co-driver).

"pop, pop, pop, pop"
From: xxx x xx
Sent: 2013.10.02 13:00
To: Mole Guy,

do freighters and haulers if they carry too much.

Its ok this way, gankers already loose their ships. No more safety for high sec, **** off stupid moron.

keep it on the forums.

See that kind of message really annoys me and I'd report it for harassment. Forums is forums and should stay that way but the maturity of some can seriously be questioned with that kind of message.

It's a shame because I've had some awesome discussions with the likes of Lucas Kell, Nago and Nikk Narrel to name but a few (and they've got heated, oh have they) but they never went so far as to harrass my inbox.

Keep it on the forums folks and keep it civil

nikk does have some weird ideas at times, but bad azz ideas other times.

Well suggesting ship scanning to be made an aggression is not really as much carebearing as wanting to keep it safe.

Ship scanning has only offensive purpose in the game, so yes, it should cause a suspect timer.

WOW is that way --->
Remember to biomass your characters as well.

god damn why is this thread seven pages

people like you are literally what's killing this game

what im looking for is not just a limited engagement between the 2 parties, i want it to anyone can shoot. what good is having a limited engagement between a hauler and a scanning ship?

i think anyone should be able to engage, but no concord interference.

i will setup a corp or fleet around every main gate on a trade route or outside every main station.

you go flashy from scanning ANYONE, i will pop ya.

not just between the 2 people.

what ever you wanna call it, thats the desired effect i seek.
i will build a corp around hunting these people down. will make it more costly to leave folks alone.

This doesn't make ganking harder it just gives more opportunities for ship explosions! which is what we all want right? well, except the gankers complaining here.. how does this make highsec any safer you're still gonna destroy the freighter if it has nice loot you just can't go around doing it the easiest way now.

I don't think people are getting the idea here especially the gankers, it's not about making highsec safer or easier for freighters it's about consequences, cargo scanning is equal to truck scanning or someone openning the lock of your car to check out what's inside, looking through a car irl is the same as look at ship command has nothing to do with cargo scanning, and ship scanning is like popping the hood.

Great idea.

Can we please keep the name calling and derisory comments on other peoples play style out if this. You can justify your ideas without such things.

Also it still remains against the rules to post personal mail here. You're not helping your stance by doing any of these things.

alternate ways of securely transporting it - from wrapping it inside of a container

Wrong and this hasn't worked for some time now. Not even the good old double wrap as AFAIK. Also they removed the immunity from the Orca so you can't transport anything now without a Cargo Scanner being able to see it, not the SMA, Fleet Hanger, Ore Hold anything. The only thing you can do is run in a Blockade Runner with crap cargo hold capacity and that doesn't even need the immunity due to it being cloakable.

I dont see cargo or ship scanning as an act that needs to be given any kind of timer. You are not and have not committed a crime. What I do have an issue with is that a Cargo Scan is a pretty serious scan that should not be able to be done passively. Scanning cargo through both hull and armor should be detectable. There should be some kind of alarm tone to notify you that you have been scanned. Once the scanner has been identified, its time to bookmark him as a potential ganker, and if you are carrying valuable cargo and you see him or her in system, it might be time to dock up till they leave.

Dock up you say....interesting. Now tell me how you would get anything in any trade hubs in EVE if every hauler was docking up when they spotted a ganker? Please read the whole thread and then post a suitable answer to the OP.

EDIT:

Now I agree with the "Scanning cargo through both hull and armor should be detectable. There should be some kind of alarm tone to notify you that you have been scanned" and it should go further. I refer to the "intent to steal" and "popping the lorry doors" analogy that has been made several times in previous posts.

EDIT 2: While it's not the ganking that this thread is against (that shizz gonna happen) it's the lack of consequences for the person scanning and then tipping of the gankers.

If you are carrying valuable cargo into a trade hub, a timer or suspect status for getting scanned is moot. You are already targeted and they will have a criminal tag before anyone notices a suspect tag.

With the tipping off portion, A suspect flag will likely help the gankers or have no effect at all as they will use their scan ships to not only tip them off to good cargo, but also as bait so they can warp in for some combat with no Concord interference..

As for a full criminal flag, I cant support that for two reasons. 1. If the pirates stop, it will make hauling even more boring than it already is. 2. Instead of targeted ganking with intel, pirates might just start hitting randomly. Not a nice thought.

I'm just going to say read the actual thread in it's entirety as it's a PITA to repeat what's already been said.

On the random though...they'd soon give that up as it'd become unsustainable if they were profit\loss gankers.

I have read the thread and do agree that pirates have it too easy with scanning, but I already listed the reasons I disagree with most of the suggested fixes. The one decent idea had to do with reducing and randomizing the accuracy of the scans. Guns dont hit with 100% accuracy so why should cargo scanners? That is a suggestion I would fully support.

Then my apologies. Now that is an interesting idea but I personally disagree and think that your average "scan and gank" char would soon go do something more profitable or turn professional...still interesting ideas.

Profit isnt everything in this game, doing what you enjoy tends to come first, I am a miner and I know the are many more profitable things to do in EVE yet I still will spend an entire evening sitting in a belt popping rocks because I am one of those sick individuals that actually finds it relaxing and enjoyable.. I have no doubt the pirates feel the same way about what they do.

And that there's no defence or way to combat the gankers except to just re-ship and try again?

...so even if scanners go suspect, the best counter to ganks are STILL and ALWAYS WILL BE:

1) carry less/take more trips
2) avoid dangerous systems
or failing both of those,
3) fly with scouts, logi, webbers, boosters and ECM buds.

If you are carrying valuable cargo into a trade hub, a timer or suspect status for getting scanned is moot. You are already targeted and they will have a criminal tag before anyone notices a suspect tag.

With the tipping off portion, A suspect flag will likely help the gankers or have no effect at all as they will use their scan ships to not only tip them off to good cargo, but also as bait so they can warp in for some combat with no Concord interference..

As for a full criminal flag, I cant support that for two reasons. 1. If the pirates stop, it will make hauling even more boring than it already is. 2. Instead of targeted ganking with intel, pirates might just start hitting randomly. Not a nice thought.

anyone else?

around butthurt morons who can't be asked to double wrap their cargo.

Sure, I'll throw my hat back in the ring.

Your idea is senseless, baseless, pointless, and useless.

Not only would it not solve any actual problem beyond your childlike need for petty revenge after a loss you could have avoided, but it would also render use of the modules in question for legitimate uses a suspect flag act.

In short, your idea will never be implemented because not only is it a bad idea, but CCP has a tendency not to design module features around butthurt morons who can't be asked to double wrap their cargo.

Yeah, that's the other reason, I forgot. There already exists a way around the so called problem you want to fix with this.

[Edit: So basically, you do not have the right to ask for features to de-facto legislate people you don't like out of existence just because you were playing the game wrong in the first place. If you learn to play the game the right way, you will find that you have a lot less upsets and losses. Try it sometime.

Double wrapping doesn't work any more...now someone point out the moron here?

Double wrapping doesn't work any more...now someone point out the moron here?

Sure, I'll throw my hat back in the ring.

Your idea is senseless, baseless, pointless, and useless.

Not only would it not solve any actual problem beyond your childlike need for petty revenge after a loss you could have avoided, but it would also render use of the modules in question for legitimate uses a suspect flag act.

In short, your idea will never be implemented because not only is it a bad idea, but CCP has a tendency not to design module features around butthurt morons who can't be asked to double wrap their cargo.

Yeah, that's the other reason, I forgot. There already exists a way around the so called problem you want to fix with this.

[Edit: So basically, you do not have the right to ask for features to de-facto legislate people you don't like out of existence just because you were playing the game wrong in the first place. If you learn to play the game the right way, you will find that you have a lot less upsets and losses. Try it sometime.

It doesn't? Hmm, that's what I get for not hauling anything in a ship that isn't named Prowler for the last year or so.

Well, the point still stands. He flew about 700 mil in an untanked Mammoth, if I got the killmail right. Nothing about that is anything but his fault.

OK, this kind of reply I can get one with. I believe (if you're talking about Mole Guy) that he admitted it was his fault? But we're aren't talking about ganking and gank squads, we're talking about the intelligence gathering\cargo scanning to be more precise.

Yes, we are. And that's not a hostile act.

And given the very existence of the passive scanning module, clearly such gameplay is intended. So what are we even talking about here, aside from a childish desire to get back at people for taking advantage of his foolish mistake?

They played within the rules. You died.

Get over it, and learn from it, don't leap feet first into the forums and beg for changes to the game.

The OP has openly admitted that was his mistake and this is F&I so he is proposing a change. He has stated why and the to and fro are all in this thread.

I've been over this with him before, in fact, I believe on page 4. When I told him that clearly the existence of the passive scanning modules means that CCP supports this.

OK, then let us have a discussion as I'm not directly affected.

Passive Targetting Modules...great. A noob can fit one (Electronics L1, Targetting L1)...if they care to. A professional "Cargo Scanner Scout" would fit one and if the change proposed was implemented we might see more of them in use and thus this increases the demand, drives economy puts ISK in peoples pockets. It also shows some thought in that they are thinking about what to fit and not just throwing on a Cargo Scanner to a noob ship and sitting on a gate.

Now for those that don't fit a Passive Targetting Module (PITA\Can't be bothered) get a Suspect Flag. This may lead to more PVP (from people engaging e.g. the haulers escort\alt) or mean that you can make note of that "Cargo Scanner Scout" names for future reference. If they die in a ball of fire or that Char gets known they have to go through the rigmoral of biomassing and getting a new name, creating an avatar, getting to where they want to scan etc. PITA that might discourage this kind of behaviour from the casual "Cargo Scanner Scout",

I'd be happy with an "audible alarm" or "visible cargo scanner icon" on the overview like they have done for EWAR and Scrams\Webs etc.

What I would like to see is something to say "You've just been scanned by this person" at the very least and that would give me the opportunity to A) Be more alert (we aren't always on the ball B) Put bounty on his head and let others do the work for me.

Feel free to come back at me with any of the above suggestions as I'd like to know your thoughts being in the opposite camp.

No effect. Firstly because it's just going to make people use the passive scanner (and then all that happens is that the guys with the T2 BPOs for that mod get rich). Secondly because scanning alts are mostly week old alts anyway. Noobships are still free, and that's never going to change.

Third point. I have no problem with an icon popping up to tell you that you have been scanned in the instance they aren't using a module to mask it. That at least, out of the rest of these ideas, doesn't heavily encourage afk gameplay.

I support a thread asking for it but to engage that "Suspect" you wouldn't be AFK, as Mole Guy was saying he'd pop pop pop that "Suspect" himself on an alt.

Rabbit-minded revenge fantasies do not overly concern me. If anyone actually cares to make an impact, they need to shoot the guy who loots the wreck. And he's already flagged by the existing mechanics.

I agree. Criminals, or wanna be criminals get away with far too much. There are no real repercussions for guys flying around with some sort of PVP intent.

As far as I know you can hear it as a 'clicking' noise or similar when you are ship-scanned, but I would agree that it is a bit unnoticeable at times.

I would concede to having it obvious that you are being scanned, just not making it give a criminal flag.

i guess reading the thread before you insult people isnt really a concern of yours either.

6 people before you have said "lawls just double wrap it, MORONZ!!!!"

and 6 times, some one here has nicely reminded us that...that doesnt work anymore, and hasnt for a long time...

but here comes little miss forum warrior back to remind us ignorance is no reason not to have an opinion.

thanks for your input! lets all make sure we pay attention to the highly informed kaarous

Yes, we are. And that's not a hostile act.

And given the very existence of the passive scanning module, clearly such gameplay is intended. So what are we even talking about here, aside from a childish desire to get back at people for taking advantage of his foolish mistake?

They played within the rules. You died.

Get over it, and learn from it, don't leap feet first into the forums and beg for changes to the game.

Yes, and he is wrong.

I've been over this with him before, in fact, I believe on page 4. When I told him that clearly the existence of the passive scanning modules means that CCP supports this, he told me something along the lines of:

"Well CCP never intended highsec ganking to be a thing".

That speaks for itself. He has no clue what he is talking about.

Whether he admitted responsibility or not, this thread is still about his lost ship, and that is written all over his posts. So bringing it up is still relevant, because it's the complete and total foundation for this "idea".

if they intended for people to be shot everywhere in eve, there wouldnt be security in the first place.
think about it.

they gave you the tools to clear your sec status, not give me the tools to chase and kill all involved with the gank...

As I said before, I don't haul in anything that isn't a Prowler. It hasn't been a concern for me in some time, and thus I was unaware that double wrapping had been removed.

As for the rest, you might have wanted to read the context of that before you got so very upset about it. But, if you would like to make this thread about me, be my guest, I love talking about me more than Toby Keith does.

That doesn't really change the fact that any desire to shoot the scanner is little more than a revenge fantasy, and if you actually care enough to make an impact, the person you need to shoot at is the looter.

i want to sit in jita off of 4-4 and shot EVERY scanner. i want to change the game. i want to patrol down shipping lanes and stop at random camps and start disrupting even if its only for 20 mins so that other players might have a bit of security.