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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
E'lyna Mis Dimaloun
REUNI0N
Against ALL Authorities
31
   |
Posted - 2013.09.30 15:16:00 -
[181] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:CCP not using the CSM as it was never intended to be used or suggested that it would ever be used is your problem alone.
Please go read up on why the CSM was ever established, and what are its functions and responsibilities to the player-base.
|
Arcueid Saber
Legio XCIX CA
9
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 15:20:00 -
[182] - Quote
Favoritism in a player driven, competitive sandbox is a huge damage to the game and its development. Something is really wrong when you place Incarnia incident above it. This is the same level. CCP wants to create a sale team out of players. If you or your group get more sales through GTC or the like and you get in game perks from CCP. The new TOS change support this nicely. |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1252
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 15:26:00 -
[183] - Quote
Except neither of these issues are closed yet. The ToS issue is under discussion and the end result of the Blink issue could still be that they never use in-game items for promotions again.
You're acting as if the issues are closed when they're still in the process of resolving them. Again, chickenlittling and 99%ing like impotent rubes.
If the CSM goes to the mattresses every time, then CCP will just, rightfully, stop listening to them altogether.
Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
Xeen Du'Wang
Knights of the Black Watch
9
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 15:41:00 -
[184] - Quote
Ethan Snow wrote:Eve Online Forums - where people don't realize how hilarious they are for raging like prats over meaningless vanity items while saying they hate people who care about meaningless vanity items.
LOL you said meaningless vanity items...
Unique ships are worth billions if not trillions of ISK, enough to start your own empire anyway. |
Arcueid Saber
Legio XCIX CA
9
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 15:44:00 -
[185] - Quote
From TOS:
Quote:You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player or authorized representative of CCP, including customer service personnel and volunteers. This includes, but is not limited to: filing support tickets with false information in an attempt to gain from it or have someone else suffer from it; sending excessive e-mails, EVE-mails or support tickets; obstructing CCP Employees from doing their jobs; refusal to follow the instructions of a CCP Employee; or implying favoritism by a CCP Employee.
credit to one of the CSM (you know who you are).
What does that even mean?
|
Xeen Du'Wang
Knights of the Black Watch
9
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 15:50:00 -
[186] - Quote
Arcueid Saber wrote:From TOS: Quote:You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player or authorized representative of CCP, including customer service personnel and volunteers. This includes, but is not limited to: filing support tickets with false information in an attempt to gain from it or have someone else suffer from it; sending excessive e-mails, EVE-mails or support tickets; obstructing CCP Employees from doing their jobs; refusal to follow the instructions of a CCP Employee; or implying favoritism by a CCP Employee. credit to one of the CSM (you know who you are). What does that even mean?
Saying any employee is showing a player favoritism.
Think this is the case here, but it is open and in your face favoritism... For everyone to see, wonder if that counts and we may all get the ban hammer soon. |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
2249
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 16:00:00 -
[187] - Quote
It's not implying a CCP employee is showing favouritism when the CCP employee himself directly states that he's giving these items to a particular group because he's "worked with them" and then stating, in a completely unjustified manner (I very much doubt he has access to their servers and has audited them), that they have been 100% honest
it's just explicit, acknowledged favouritism
CCP want to directly give somer, an in profit, in game organisation, hundreds of billions of isk for shiggles |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
4660
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 20:09:00 -
[188] - Quote
Xeen Du'Wang wrote:Arcueid Saber wrote:From TOS: Quote:You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player or authorized representative of CCP, including customer service personnel and volunteers. This includes, but is not limited to: filing support tickets with false information in an attempt to gain from it or have someone else suffer from it; sending excessive e-mails, EVE-mails or support tickets; obstructing CCP Employees from doing their jobs; refusal to follow the instructions of a CCP Employee; or implying favoritism by a CCP Employee. credit to one of the CSM (you know who you are). What does that even mean? Saying any employee is showing a player favoritism. Think this is the case here, but it is open and in your face favoritism... For everyone to see, wonder if that counts and we may all get the ban hammer soon.
Welp, so really...
this was a honeypot
There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Doris Dents
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
317
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 20:56:00 -
[189] - Quote
Arcueid Saber wrote:From TOS: Quote:You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player or authorized representative of CCP, including customer service personnel and volunteers. This includes, but is not limited to: filing support tickets with false information in an attempt to gain from it or have someone else suffer from it; sending excessive e-mails, EVE-mails or support tickets; obstructing CCP Employees from doing their jobs; refusal to follow the instructions of a CCP Employee; or implying favoritism by a CCP Employee. credit to one of the CSM (you know who you are). What does that even mean?
I think it means CCP thinks favoritism would be a bad thing to be associated with given some unpleasant history and the extremely competitive nature of the game. Odd that. |
Xeen Du'Wang
Knights of the Black Watch
9
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 21:02:00 -
[190] - Quote
Exactly... This is a competitive game.... And giving anyone a leg up for no reason other then... knowing someone?
Well thats part of it, the other part is money.
|
Kirren D'marr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
54
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 22:06:00 -
[191] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:The following is a summary of CSM activity over the last few days regarding the SOMER Blink promotion.
The CSM was not consulted in advance about this promotion, so it was just as much a surprise to us as it was to the community. Our reaction was broadly similar to that expressed in the forums.
On Thursday the 26th, we received an update on the situation from CCP Dolan after our regular Stakeholder meeting with Team Five-0. Later in the day, we got a second update from CCP Dolan and CCP Manifest.
During those meetings, we outlined five areas of concern that we felt CCP's response should address. These were:
1. Reintroduction of historically important or unique ships.
2. Favoring one community fan site over others.
3. Trusting a community fan site, and more particularly, a player, with the task of selecting the winners.
4. Forcing players to use SOMER Blink in order to enter -- which may have legal consequences in some jurisdictions.
5. Providing direct benefit to a for-profit gambling fansite.
I would add:
6. Giving control over access to a community-wide event to a player organization.
In light of recent events involving EVE representatives withdrawing from certain RP chat channels in order to avoid individual players' whims preventing participation by other players, this one seems particularly hypocritical. Somer has the power to determine who can and can't participate in their promotions, and can ban individuals, regardless of how those players may stand with CCP and the rules and conditions of EVE.
Quote:First, we are developing a program to allow all 3rd parties the opportunity to apply to participate in these kinds of events and promotions with CCP support, and we will have news on that shortly. In general, we believe CCP should foster the activities our players enjoy, and it is clear these kinds of activities have a lot of support in the EVE community, much like we see in other games.
That said, we recognize it is imperative for CCP to remain impartial with respect to which 3rd parties receive CCP support for these kinds of activities. To that end, we will develop a clear policy on how we plan to conduct future events, including how we will determine which 3rd parties and which events will receive CCP support, and we will develop that policy in consultation with the CSM.
In order to prevent a lot of the controversy of the past few days, this aboslutely needed to be in place before selecting any player organization to receive these items. The fact now is that Somer was selected without being vetted against any such policy, and because of this, the whole issue still stinks of corruption. Future intentions and improvements will not change that; reversing the decision would help though.
Still, I woudl argue that even with such a policy in place, giving items to an organization such as SOMER Blink is a huge mistake, and a slap in the face to the rest of the EVE community. The fact is that CCP has given Somer a free means to make in-game profit via increased traffic to and use of their lottery services (can you spot when the prize announcement was made?), and this gives an unfair in-game advantage to one player corporation over others.
Some are arguing that Somer is receiving these prizes as a reward for them sponsoring the EVE Vegas event. Frankly, that's ridiculous logic. Let me give you an example: let's say you have a real-life company which owns a racing team. This company decides to sponsor a race, in which their team will participate. Should the track owners give this company's car a head start in the race in exchange for their sponsorship? Of course not! If they did, no other teams would participate, as it's a rigged event! Yet that is exactly what we have happening here with CCP and Somer - the "impartial" referees are giving one group of players an advantage over the others, merely becaue they sponsored an event. The rewards of sponsorship are visibility and advertising, not direct handouts and unfair advantages.
If CCP really wants to give out these sorts of prizes in the future, then there needs to be some better criteria for which player groups participate and controls over how the prizes are given. I would suggest the following:
1. If using a lottery-type giveaway, any such prizes must be given out must be given out through a truly random and fair system. By fair, I mean that all EVE players with active subscriptions may participate, and the organizing entity cannot exclude anyone. Also, the organizing entity cannot make money (in-game or real) from the giveaway, either through direct purchase for participation in the giveaway, or indirectly through giving advantages to those who purchase other services.
2. These prizes may also be given out as awards for a contest of arms or other competition. Such a competition must be open to all EVE subscribers, and again, the organizing entity cannot make profit from such an event (e.g., a tournament requiring an entry fee will undoubtedly make more ISK if they can offer unique items as prizes, meaning they make free ISK from CCP's gift).
(to be continued)
Why a switch on/off?
Because the new animation doesn't add anything to gameplay and it's graphically annoying.
In other words, it's worse than bad: it's useless.
Simple as that.-á-á-á-á-á - Kina Ayami |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
4660
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 22:16:00 -
[192] - Quote
Doris Dents wrote:Arcueid Saber wrote:From TOS: Quote:You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player or authorized representative of CCP, including customer service personnel and volunteers. This includes, but is not limited to: filing support tickets with false information in an attempt to gain from it or have someone else suffer from it; sending excessive e-mails, EVE-mails or support tickets; obstructing CCP Employees from doing their jobs; refusal to follow the instructions of a CCP Employee; or implying favoritism by a CCP Employee. credit to one of the CSM (you know who you are). What does that even mean? I think it means CCP thinks favoritism would be a bad thing to be associated with given some unpleasant history and the extremely competitive nature of the game. Odd that.
Welp, good thing they can ban everyone who posted in a thread about...
wait
There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Kirren D'marr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
54
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 22:21:00 -
[193] - Quote
(continued from above)
3. In general, these prizes should not be given to player organizations designed as a profit-making enterprise, regardless of what they offer the community. However, if CCP finds it absolutely necessary to give these prizes to such groups, then they need to take measures to mitigate any in-game advanage that would be bestowed on these groups. It should be required that all excess ISK generated by such an event be put back into additional prizes for the participants. If the giveaway would generate additional income for the organization indirectly (e.g., through the sale of other services normally offered), then any ISK made by the organization above their average income through these means also needs to be put towards additional prizes. This needs to be verfied by an extensive audit, the results of which need to be public and transparent to the community.
4. As an alternative to point 3., these organizations may be allowed to earn a profit from such events, if they do not receive the prizes from CCP for free, but are instead required to pay an approzimate fair market value for them. In such a case, the prizes cannot be offered to a single entity, but must be open for purchase by any player organization who wishes to obtain them (with the requirement of course that they be given as prizes and not kept by the members of the organization). If the prizes are of a nature that there are limited quantities available, then they should be made available through a bidding process, again accessible by all groups who wish to participate.
5. Regardless of how prizes are given, no member of the player entity organizing the giveaway may be the recipient of any prizes (whether the prizes provided by CCP or by the player entity itself). Nor can anyone associated with the entity receive such prizes. This includes players directly involved in organizing the event and any of their alts, their corp mates, their alliance mates, or their family members. Any abuse of this immediately disqualifies the player entity from participating in any future giveaways (in addition to whatever individual punishment CCP may mete out; item/ISK confiscation, banning, etc.). This is true even if it is done supposedly without the knowledge of the entity's leadership (something which is impossible to prove), as if an entity cannot effectively control its members for such an event, they cannot be expected to be able to do so in the future either.
(I personally still find points 3 and 4 questionable at best, but they are a way around some issues and ideas presented by others, so I included them as possible options, if not the best)
These sorts of requirements should greatly reduce the appearance of corruption and favoritism, and provide more equitiable options for distributing such prizes without threatening the balance of the sandbox.
Why a switch on/off?
Because the new animation doesn't add anything to gameplay and it's graphically annoying.
In other words, it's worse than bad: it's useless.
Simple as that.-á-á-á-á-á - Kina Ayami |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
Casoff
1565
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 06:17:00 -
[194] - Quote
oh dear lord just how much isk did ccp hand over to blink |
Imiarr Timshae
Funny Men In Funny Hats
76
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 07:40:00 -
[195] - Quote
This is the first time I have ever actually seen anything positive come out of the CSM.
Thank you so ******* much for making a fuss about CCP acting in an ill-thought manner.
Imiarr's Services:
The Standing Correction Agency : https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=41506
Imiarr Timshae's FREE 3rd Party and Collateral Holding Service : https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3297432&#post3297432 |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
2255
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 07:52:00 -
[196] - Quote
So is this the only response we're getting on the matter? Refusal to address any of the important points, and saying in the future they'll do it again but hopefully it'll be very very slightly less biased, unregulated and disastrous? |
Sirane Elrek
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
275
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 08:11:00 -
[197] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:So is this the only response we're getting on the matter? Refusal to address any of the important points, and saying in the future they'll do it again but hopefully it'll be very very slightly less biased, unregulated and disastrous?
You've been playing this game long enough that you know the answer to that question. |
Xeen Du'Wang
Knights of the Black Watch
11
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 11:02:00 -
[198] - Quote
OK CSM, time for some answers.... |
Tao Dolcino
Confederation Navy Research
Epsilon Fleet
141
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 11:30:00 -
[199] - Quote
Xeen Du'Wang wrote:OK CSM, time for some answers....
They cannot speak without the authorisation of their master CCP. It's written in the contract they have signed.
I think that we can't hope for anything tangible from the CSM. It's not their fault, it's just that only CCP own the key of their chains.
We must fight by ourselves, paying subscribers. *raises his fist* |
Xeen Du'Wang
Knights of the Black Watch
11
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 11:47:00 -
[200] - Quote
Tao Dolcino wrote:Xeen Du'Wang wrote:OK CSM, time for some answers.... They cannot speak without the authorisation of their master CCP. It's written in the contract they have signed. I think that we can't hope for anything tangible from the CSM. It's not their fault, it's just that only CCP own the key of their chains. We must fight by ourselves, paying subscribers. *raises his fist*
I agree, I just want to poke the CSM to get some answers anyway lol.
We must fight. With our wallets if necessary. |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
2260
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 12:19:00 -
[201] - Quote
You're assuming, of course, that the CSM have actually been given any answers or further information
considering they were deliberately cut out of this at the start, I wouldn't be surprised if they've only got a few worthless tidbits that don't address any issues |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1257
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 12:42:00 -
[202] - Quote
I've given up on them rolling this one back, but we should be pushing so that it never happens again. I'd like the CSM to be pushing that point. There are a number of alternate ways of achieving the same goals without giving away an in-game fortune to an in-game entity. It just shouldn't happen, ever.
Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
Tao Dolcino
Confederation Navy Research
Epsilon Fleet
141
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 12:58:00 -
[203] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:You're assuming, of course, that the CSM have actually been given any answers or further information
considering they were deliberately cut out of this at the start, I wouldn't be surprised if they've only got a few worthless tidbits that don't address any issues
Damn, you're right.
In fact what is annoying me the most with the CSM is that they claim to do a lot of things for us which they don't have the right to tell us about.
It's maybe true, but in a normal democracy, the ones who are supposed to represent you (the CSM is supposed to represent us, right ?) have the duty to report to us what they do. They are accountable for what they do in our name.
I don't have to believe them, i have the right to read transparent and complete reports. |
arabella blood
I Swear She Looked 18
180
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 13:31:00 -
[204] - Quote
Tao Dolcino wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:You're assuming, of course, that the CSM have actually been given any answers or further information
considering they were deliberately cut out of this at the start, I wouldn't be surprised if they've only got a few worthless tidbits that don't address any issues Damn, you're right. In fact what is annoying me the most with the CSM is that they claim to do a lot of things for us which they don't have the right to tell us about. It's maybe true, but in a normal democracy, the ones who are supposed to represent you (the CSM is supposed to represent us, right ?) have the duty to report to us what they do. They are accountable for what they do in our name. I don't have to believe them, i have the right to read transparent and complete reports.
As i said in my previous post here. Hiding behind the NDA and doing nothing is basicly what the CSM is all about.
Troll for hire. Cheap prices. |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
2266
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 14:22:00 -
[205] - Quote
arabella blood wrote:Tao Dolcino wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:You're assuming, of course, that the CSM have actually been given any answers or further information
considering they were deliberately cut out of this at the start, I wouldn't be surprised if they've only got a few worthless tidbits that don't address any issues Damn, you're right. In fact what is annoying me the most with the CSM is that they claim to do a lot of things for us which they don't have the right to tell us about. It's maybe true, but in a normal democracy, the ones who are supposed to represent you (the CSM is supposed to represent us, right ?) have the duty to report to us what they do. They are accountable for what they do in our name. I don't have to believe them, i have the right to read transparent and complete reports. As i said in my previous post here. Hiding behind the NDA and doing nothing is basicly what the CSM is all about.
You can't really blame the CSM themselves for that. CCP are the ones who write up these NDAs. It's fun to say "hey players, heres a group of people who represent you and who we talk to" - great pr, for sure. But then when you legally gag those representatives and deliberately cut them out of conversations, it makes them pointless |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation
DemSal Unlimited
647
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 14:33:00 -
[206] - Quote
Tao Dolcino wrote:
Damn, you're right.
In fact what is annoying me the most with the CSM is that they claim to do a lot of things for us which they don't have the right to tell us about.
It's maybe true, but in a normal democracy, the ones who are supposed to represent you (the CSM is supposed to represent us, right ?) have the duty to report to us what they do. They are accountable for what they do in our name.
I don't have to believe them, i have the right to read transparent and complete reports.
You're serious, aren't you?
8 seasons of working to build trust with CCP to the point that we are allowed to see things that warrant an NDA. And you would have us throw away that trust by being 'open and transparent'. Representation is more than being spies to what is coming next. It is telling CCP what will happen if they do this or that. It is bringing concerns of the players to CCP.
We are not your reporters or your pipeline to the 3 or 5 year plans.
I signed an NDA and i have seen things, heard things, that give reason for that document.
m
btw if you think any democracy is totally transparent you live in a utopia far beyond any way for me to reach you with an argument based on rational thought
Mike Azariah-á CSM8 |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1267
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 15:01:00 -
[207] - Quote
Or that the CSM represent some sort of sovereign democratic power of the playerbase. Get a grip, guys.
We have a channel beyond the usual market action of not purchasing products we don't want. Nothing more. Learn to engage with it effectively, or lose it.
Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
KIller Wabbit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
427
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 15:45:00 -
[208] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:arabella blood wrote:Tao Dolcino wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:You're assuming, of course, that the CSM have actually been given any answers or further information
considering they were deliberately cut out of this at the start, I wouldn't be surprised if they've only got a few worthless tidbits that don't address any issues Damn, you're right. In fact what is annoying me the most with the CSM is that they claim to do a lot of things for us which they don't have the right to tell us about. It's maybe true, but in a normal democracy, the ones who are supposed to represent you (the CSM is supposed to represent us, right ?) have the duty to report to us what they do. They are accountable for what they do in our name. I don't have to believe them, i have the right to read transparent and complete reports. As i said in my previous post here. Hiding behind the NDA and doing nothing is basicly what the CSM is all about. You can't really blame the CSM themselves for that. CCP are the ones who write up these NDAs. It's fun to say "hey players, heres a group of people who represent you and who we talk to" - great pr, for sure. But then when you legally gag those representatives and deliberately cut them out of conversations, it makes them pointless
Agreed. When many parties of CCP simply refusing to take one minute to ping an idea off of the CSM there's not anything the CSM can do. With the apparent ongoing lack of consequences for putting CCP in the crapper with its customers there is zero incentive for those parties to make the effort.
I have been wondering if there is a required reading lore kit for CCP employees. With so much of EVE leveraged on its lore - you'd think it would be as much of a required reading as the employee handbook.
(and please Lord forgive me this trespass for defending the CSM)
CCP Punkturis-á "I want to get in on the goodposter circle jerk!"
|
KIller Wabbit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
427
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 15:51:00 -
[209] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Tao Dolcino wrote:
Damn, you're right.
In fact what is annoying me the most with the CSM is that they claim to do a lot of things for us which they don't have the right to tell us about.
It's maybe true, but in a normal democracy, the ones who are supposed to represent you (the CSM is supposed to represent us, right ?) have the duty to report to us what they do. They are accountable for what they do in our name.
I don't have to believe them, i have the right to read transparent and complete reports.
You're serious, aren't you? 8 seasons of working to build trust with CCP to the point that we are allowed to see things that warrant an NDA. And you would have us throw away that trust by being 'open and transparent'. Representation is more than being spies to what is coming next. It is telling CCP what will happen if they do this or that. It is bringing concerns of the players to CCP. We are not your reporters or your pipeline to the 3 or 5 year plans. I signed an NDA and i have seen things, heard things, that give reason for that document. m btw if you think any democracy is totally transparent you live in a utopia far beyond any way for me to reach you with an argument based on rational thought
You could easily take credit without breaking a NDA. "Log 01/10/13 3 consultations with UI team on new ideas. Shot down 1 of them, suggested improvements for 1, agreed with 1, spawned off 2 new ideas during consult. Marketing - rejected 3 bad ideas, agreed to think about revised travel plans. CCP General - two more departments have opened up dedicated Skype channels and established consult schedule"
CCP Punkturis-á "I want to get in on the goodposter circle jerk!"
|
Xeen Du'Wang
Knights of the Black Watch
11
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 16:01:00 -
[210] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Tao Dolcino wrote:
Damn, you're right.
In fact what is annoying me the most with the CSM is that they claim to do a lot of things for us which they don't have the right to tell us about.
It's maybe true, but in a normal democracy, the ones who are supposed to represent you (the CSM is supposed to represent us, right ?) have the duty to report to us what they do. They are accountable for what they do in our name.
I don't have to believe them, i have the right to read transparent and complete reports.
You're serious, aren't you? 8 seasons of working to build trust with CCP to the point that we are allowed to see things that warrant an NDA. And you would have us throw away that trust by being 'open and transparent'. Representation is more than being spies to what is coming next. It is telling CCP what will happen if they do this or that. It is bringing concerns of the players to CCP. We are not your reporters or your pipeline to the 3 or 5 year plans. I signed an NDA and i have seen things, heard things, that give reason for that document. m btw if you think any democracy is totally transparent you live in a utopia far beyond any way for me to reach you with an argument based on rational thought
Please then, tell us why CCP thinks its okay to support a player based organization with huge profit potentials. Dont they think that is giving them an advantage? Or do they not care?
As a side note: I do not care about the trips to Vegas, other then the fact they allowed a Player group to profit in game from it. |
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