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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Tao Dolcino
Confederation Navy Research Epsilon Fleet
141
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 16:18:00 -
[211] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:8 seasons of working to build trust with CCP to the point that we are allowed to see things that warrant an NDA. And you would have us throw away that trust by being 'open and transparent'.
At least things are clear, so for you the role of the CSM is to earn the trust of CCP ??? Ahem, excuse me but the CSM has been create to restore the trust the players have lost in CCP... by more transparency... Absolutely hopeless |
Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
3082
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 20:15:00 -
[212] - Quote
Tao Dolcino wrote:Ahem, excuse me but the CSM has been create to restore the trust the players have lost in CCP... by more transparency... Absolutely hopeless Allow me to explain how this works.
CCP tells us a lot of things about any particular topic, like the current controversy. These broadly fit into three categories:
1) Things that are covered under the NDA. We can't talk about those. If we did, we'd blow years of patient work getting CCP to trust us and tell us all sorts of NDA stuff. It is very much in your interests that CCP continue to do so.
2) Things that are not covered by the NDA, which we talk about ad-nauseum.
3) Things that are not covered by the letter of the NDA, but we don't talk about them because we don't think it is in the best interests of the community to make them public.
With respect to (3), no doubt you are thinking "You arrogant bastards, who gave you the right to decide what's in our best interests to know or not know?". Well, you did. You elected us to make those decisions.
If you don't like the calls we are making, toss us out on our asses in the next election. Like any honest politician, "My door is always open, and my hand is always out" |
Liam Todd Bloodstar
The Dothraki
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 20:37:00 -
[213] - Quote
I agree with the NDA stuff and etc etc...
My question is, has CCP been told that they are repeating old disasters that brought the CEO out to apologize to the players?
I dont have a massive number of accounts, and Eve will not notice me leave, but I am thinking about it.... |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
5822
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 04:39:00 -
[214] - Quote
So the event is over and all prizes have been paid out. Good job CCP. Good to see you sitting on your hands and letting things play out instead of doing what's right. My YouTube Videos Latest video: August 25, 2013 |
KIller Wabbit
The Scope Gallente Federation
427
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 09:37:00 -
[215] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:Tao Dolcino wrote:Ahem, excuse me but the CSM has been create to restore the trust the players have lost in CCP... by more transparency... Absolutely hopeless Allow me to explain how this works. CCP tells us a lot of things about any particular topic, like the current controversy. These broadly fit into three categories: 1) Things that are covered under the NDA. We can't talk about those. If we did, we'd blow years of patient work getting CCP to trust us and tell us all sorts of NDA stuff. It is very much in your interests that CCP continue to do so. 2) Things that are not covered by the NDA, which we talk about ad-nauseum. 3) Things that are not covered by the letter of the NDA, but we don't talk about them because we don't think it is in the best interests of the community to make them public. With respect to (3), no doubt you are thinking "You arrogant bastards, who gave you the right to decide what's in our best interests to know or not know?". Well, you did. You elected us to make those decisions. If you don't like the calls we are making, toss us out on our asses in the next election.
Are you kidding me?
There should NEVER be a #3.
CCP Punkturis-á "I want to get in on the goodposter circle jerk!"
|
Alt Two
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
29
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 10:34:00 -
[216] - Quote
KIller Wabbit wrote:Trebor Daehdoow wrote:Tao Dolcino wrote:Ahem, excuse me but the CSM has been create to restore the trust the players have lost in CCP... by more transparency... Absolutely hopeless Allow me to explain how this works. CCP tells us a lot of things about any particular topic, like the current controversy. These broadly fit into three categories: 1) Things that are covered under the NDA. We can't talk about those. If we did, we'd blow years of patient work getting CCP to trust us and tell us all sorts of NDA stuff. It is very much in your interests that CCP continue to do so. 2) Things that are not covered by the NDA, which we talk about ad-nauseum. 3) Things that are not covered by the letter of the NDA, but we don't talk about them because we don't think it is in the best interests of the community to make them public. With respect to (3), no doubt you are thinking "You arrogant bastards, who gave you the right to decide what's in our best interests to know or not know?". Well, you did. You elected us to make those decisions. If you don't like the calls we are making, toss us out on our asses in the next election. Are you kidding me? There should NEVER be a #3. He probably made a small typo. I think #3 was supposed to be "Things that are not covered by the letter of the NDA, but we don't talk about them because we want to make a profit from them before anyone else can." |
Liam Todd Bloodstar
The Dothraki
2
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 10:56:00 -
[217] - Quote
Alt Two wrote:KIller Wabbit wrote:Trebor Daehdoow wrote:Tao Dolcino wrote:Ahem, excuse me but the CSM has been create to restore the trust the players have lost in CCP... by more transparency... Absolutely hopeless Allow me to explain how this works. CCP tells us a lot of things about any particular topic, like the current controversy. These broadly fit into three categories: 1) Things that are covered under the NDA. We can't talk about those. If we did, we'd blow years of patient work getting CCP to trust us and tell us all sorts of NDA stuff. It is very much in your interests that CCP continue to do so. 2) Things that are not covered by the NDA, which we talk about ad-nauseum. 3) Things that are not covered by the letter of the NDA, but we don't talk about them because we don't think it is in the best interests of the community to make them public. With respect to (3), no doubt you are thinking "You arrogant bastards, who gave you the right to decide what's in our best interests to know or not know?". Well, you did. You elected us to make those decisions. If you don't like the calls we are making, toss us out on our asses in the next election. Are you kidding me? There should NEVER be a #3. He probably made a small typo. I think #3 was supposed to be "Things that are not covered by the letter of the NDA, but we don't talk about them because we want to make a profit from them before anyone else can."
LOL, sounds like the US Congress... |
Kara Roideater
161
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 11:31:00 -
[218] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote: 3) Things that are not covered by the letter of the NDA, but we don't talk about them because we don't think it is in the best interests of the community to make them public.
With respect to (3), no doubt you are thinking "You arrogant bastards, who gave you the right to decide what's in our best interests to know or not know?". Well, you did. You elected us to make those decisions.
Not really. A relatively small proportion of the player base elected you and then you make those decisions. Unless you stood on a platform of withholding stuff from the community that you don't have to withhold but think you should you can't claim any kind of electoral endorsement for those choices. You weren't elected to do just whatever you choose to do and you can't use the fact of being elected as a retrospective justification for all your actions as an elected individual. More generally, you were explicitly elected as representatives and conduits of communication, not as people with executive powers.
|
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1280
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 11:59:00 -
[219] - Quote
Dunked. Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
3083
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 12:34:00 -
[220] - Quote
Kara Roideater wrote:Not really. A relatively small proportion of the player base elected you and then you make those decisions. Unless you stood on a platform of withholding stuff from the community that you don't have to withhold but think you should you can't claim any kind of electoral endorsement for those choices. You weren't elected to do just whatever you choose to do and you can't use the fact of being elected as a retrospective justification for all your actions as an elected individual. More generally, you were explicitly elected as representatives and conduits of communication, not as people with executive powers.
I was elected -- 4 times in a row -- to exercise my best judgment on behalf of the community.
If there happens to be something that all 14 CSMs decide not to talk about -- especially since one of us is the pre-eminent EVE blogger -- you can be pretty damn sure we have a good reason.
And as for being elected by a small proportion of the community, well, there's any easy fix for that. Gather together a bunch of people who agree with you that we're a bunch of arrogant, elitist bastards and elect someone who refuses to remain silent. You only need one brave maverick to blow the whistle on our corrupt cabal.
Like any honest politician, "My door is always open, and my hand is always out" |
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Kara Roideater
165
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 12:47:00 -
[221] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:I was elected -- 4 times in a row -- to exercise my best judgment on behalf of the community. If there happens to be something that all 14 CSMs decide not to talk about -- especially since one of us is the pre-eminent EVE blogger -- you can be pretty damn sure we have a good reason. And as for being elected by a small proportion of the community, well, there's any easy fix for that. Gather together a bunch of people who agree with you that we're a bunch of arrogant, elitist bastards and elect someone who refuses to remain silent. You only need one brave maverick to blow the whistle on our corrupt cabal.
The sarcasm sadly doesn't address the points I made. The line about 'elected to use our best judgement' is simply a justification for doing whatever you fancy. Of course, it doesn't stand up to scrutiny. You were elected to convey community views to CCP and to convey information from CCP back to the community. None of you has any kind of mandate to withhold information that you are allowed to release just because you don't think the plebs can be trusted with it.
As to being 'pretty damn sure' you have a good reason not to talk about something because you all agree not to, simply no. That is a vapid line that suggests that any group in a position of authority is correct simply on the grounds of their consensus. That is obviously false. I have no reason to think that your collective agreement on a point means that you have an actual good reason, only that you all happen to agree with each other. You mistake consensus for correctness. Unfortunately, you also deny those who you represent the ability to actually make an informed judgement about your actions (something that renders future electoral choices a problematic proposition) since not only are you making this decision, which exceeds your remit, but you are concealing the details of the decision from the public without there being any requirement to do so. |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1281
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 13:00:00 -
[222] - Quote
Even a pathetically insignificant amount of power corrupts
-Sun Tzu X after the Fourth battle of New Carthage, 2050 Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
2283
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 13:07:00 -
[223] - Quote
Does this argument over trebors judgement even matter? CCP have demonstrated they will simply exclude the csm from certain things, and ignore the issues and roll on with the problems even when the CSM do raise their voices. |
KIller Wabbit
The Scope Gallente Federation
428
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 13:09:00 -
[224] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:Kara Roideater wrote:Not really. A relatively small proportion of the player base elected you and then you make those decisions. Unless you stood on a platform of withholding stuff from the community that you don't have to withhold but think you should you can't claim any kind of electoral endorsement for those choices. You weren't elected to do just whatever you choose to do and you can't use the fact of being elected as a retrospective justification for all your actions as an elected individual. More generally, you were explicitly elected as representatives and conduits of communication, not as people with executive powers.
I was elected -- 4 times in a row -- to exercise my best judgment on behalf of the community. If there happens to be something that all 14 CSMs decide not to talk about -- especially since one of us is the pre-eminent EVE blogger -- you can be pretty damn sure we have a good reason. And as for being elected by a small proportion of the community, well, there's any easy fix for that. Gather together a bunch of people who agree with you that we're a bunch of arrogant, elitist bastards and elect someone who refuses to remain silent. You only need one brave maverick to blow the whistle on our corrupt cabal.
Pretty sure the community never knew the CSM was willfully holding back on non-NDA covered items.
I ask that you give an example of such an issue.
Otherwise - the CSM continues to prove it is NOT in the best interest of the EVE community at large.
CCP Punkturis-á "I want to get in on the goodposter circle jerk!"
|
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1282
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 13:19:00 -
[225] - Quote
Yeah, as interesting as this issue is (Jita Park is a better place for it), can we get some feedback from the CSM on the idea of asking CCP to ensure that in-game benefits are not given to in-game entities ever again? That would be the only positive return from this whole event now that it has gone through regardless because they didn't discuss it with the CSM until they were too far gone to turn back anyway. Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
Liam Todd Bloodstar
The Dothraki
2
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 15:22:00 -
[226] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:Yeah, as interesting as this issue is (Jita Park is a better place for it), can we get some feedback from the CSM on the idea of asking CCP to ensure that in-game benefits are not given to in-game entities ever again? That would be the only positive return from this whole event now that it has gone through regardless because they didn't discuss it with the CSM until they were too far gone to turn back anyway.
Yeah... we wont get that.
They said they are going to do it again in the other thread... 3rd party yadda yadda |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
2285
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 16:14:00 -
[227] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:Yeah, as interesting as this issue is (Jita Park is a better place for it), can we get some feedback from the CSM on the idea of asking CCP to ensure that in-game benefits are not given to in-game entities ever again? That would be the only positive return from this whole event now that it has gone through regardless because they didn't discuss it with the CSM until they were too far gone to turn back anyway.
Those of us with more spare tinfoil than the others may argue thats the result CCP want: To go ahead with their extremely biased, poorly thought out ideas then use the backlash as justification to not ever offer other in-game entities similar opportunities. Test it out with the people who cause players to purchase GTCs, rather than with people who provide a massive service to the betterment of the community but without gtc sales mixed in |
Cursan Voran
Jita Traders Society
57
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 19:47:00 -
[228] - Quote
So how much did Somer Blink actually make from this?
Is the 35 trillion figure being claimed total nonsense or not? |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1248
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 21:52:00 -
[229] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Tao Dolcino wrote:
Damn, you're right. In fact what is annoying me the most with the CSM is that they claim to do a lot of things for us which they don't have the right to tell us about. It's maybe true, but in a normal democracy, the ones who are supposed to represent you (the CSM is supposed to represent us, right ?) have the duty to report to us what they do. They are accountable for what they do in our name. I don't have to believe them, i have the right to read transparent and complete reports.
You're serious, aren't you? 8 seasons of working to build trust with CCP to the point that we are allowed to see things that warrant an NDA. And you would have us throw away that trust by being 'open and transparent'. Representation is more than being spies to what is coming next. It is telling CCP what will happen if they do this or that. It is bringing concerns of the players to CCP. We are not your reporters or your pipeline to the 3 or 5 year plans. I signed an NDA and i have seen things, heard things, that give reason for that document. m btw if you think any democracy is totally transparent you live in a utopia far beyond any way for me to reach you with an argument based on rational thought
Fck you just got me before I could do it, well I'd be a bit less comprehensive and bit ruder. Mkay I'm out don't ban me yet
*removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1285
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 01:05:00 -
[230] - Quote
Liam Todd Bloodstar wrote:
Yeah... we wont get that.
They said they are going to do it again in the other thread... 3rd party yadda yadda
Well I'm not ready to accept that. I'd also like assurances that the ToS issue is moving forward.
CCP can pretend this stuff never happened, but the general sense of disappointment and dissatisfaction that these incidents create is cumulative, and they're running up a steep tab at an accelerated pace. A few more disasters like this, and they'll be back to Incarna levels of player mistrust.
Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4670
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 07:41:00 -
[231] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:CCP can pretend this stuff never happened, but the general sense of disappointment and dissatisfaction that these incidents create is cumulative, and they're running up a steep tab at an accelerated pace. A few more disasters like this, and they'll be back to Incarna levels of player mistrust. oh comeon, it's just spawning expensive stuff for their starlet 100% honest heros of the day
and clarifying a tos change that was actually always like that
and There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4670
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 07:42:00 -
[232] - Quote
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:Mike Azariah wrote:Tao Dolcino wrote:
Damn, you're right. In fact what is annoying me the most with the CSM is that they claim to do a lot of things for us which they don't have the right to tell us about. It's maybe true, but in a normal democracy, the ones who are supposed to represent you (the CSM is supposed to represent us, right ?) have the duty to report to us what they do. They are accountable for what they do in our name. I don't have to believe them, i have the right to read transparent and complete reports.
You're serious, aren't you? 8 seasons of working to build trust with CCP to the point that we are allowed to see things that warrant an NDA. And you would have us throw away that trust by being 'open and transparent'. Representation is more than being spies to what is coming next. It is telling CCP what will happen if they do this or that. It is bringing concerns of the players to CCP. We are not your reporters or your pipeline to the 3 or 5 year plans. I signed an NDA and i have seen things, heard things, that give reason for that document. m btw if you think any democracy is totally transparent you live in a utopia far beyond any way for me to reach you with an argument based on rational thought Fck you just got me before I could do it, well I'd be a bit less comprehensive and bit ruder. Mkay I'm out don't ban me yet basically sit down and shut up its all taken care of
nothing to see here
play somer blink more There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
416
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 08:14:00 -
[233] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Tao Dolcino wrote:
Damn, you're right. In fact what is annoying me the most with the CSM is that they claim to do a lot of things for us which they don't have the right to tell us about. It's maybe true, but in a normal democracy, the ones who are supposed to represent you (the CSM is supposed to represent us, right ?) have the duty to report to us what they do. They are accountable for what they do in our name. I don't have to believe them, i have the right to read transparent and complete reports.
You're serious, aren't you? 8 seasons of working to build trust with CCP to the point that we are allowed to see things that warrant an NDA. And you would have us throw away that trust by being 'open and transparent'. Representation is more than being spies to what is coming next. It is telling CCP what will happen if they do this or that. It is bringing concerns of the players to CCP. We are not your reporters or your pipeline to the 3 or 5 year plans. I signed an NDA and i have seen things, heard things, that give reason for that document. m btw if you think any democracy is totally transparent you live in a utopia far beyond any way for me to reach you with an argument based on rational thought
This is the lamest attempt at legitimacy I've yet read. Personally, I don't think it's your job to represent the player base to CCP as most of them didn't vote for you. However evidenced by your reply we can all tell that it is your job to represent CCP to the player base. You do not serve the people, you are a pipeline or a mouth piece for CCP, nothing more. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
791
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 13:30:00 -
[234] - Quote
Let me get this straight; CCP decided to try to outsource a bit of nepot-/favouritism (assume because their skin is raw from all the hand-washing the past few years) by putting up some collectors items that have close to zero impact on Eve as a whole only to pull them and add a rather significant real world cash prize on top of a collectors item .. how is that better?
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:... Supporting groups that have a clear educational/public service focus in-game is one thing; supporting a group that is distinctly for-profit -- and one that can use the ISK it generates to secretly support in-game groups -- breeds distrust for CCP in the community. Nothing new, Devs have been accused of bias (in some cases probably warranted) ever since CCP started recruiting heavily from the player base. The mere fact that the game, especially 0.0 was allowed to develop as it has with 2-3 massive power-blocs each with the in-game funds and sheep herds to break the game at any time should they so choose more than indicates that some decision makers in Iceland has agendas that goes beyond offering an awesome game .. null is being revised and that revision will reveal if it has become systemic, woe unto us if it has.
Not sure when the camel broke its back, best guess would be the melding of real world money with ISK when PLEX were introduced. That alone essentially incentivizes CCP employees to favour changes that benefit the bottom-line rather than the game proper, in most cases it is probably not conscious though (or at least I hope not!) but the impetus is there .. IA needs to be put to buffed and given the task of giving all plans a once over, flagging anything that involves or encourages PLEX sales either directly or indirectly.
In short: CCP has like each and every corporate and governmental entity before it grown corrupt due to the lack of measured regulation, oversight and ability to police itself.
PS: In Denmark any winnings from a game or lottery outside the EU is generally to be taxed as personal income, just FYI .. hope that extra 20-30% is included in the 'all expenses paid' line . There are exceptions, but they pretty much all involve game/lottery being either state run, government regulated or non-profit oriented none of which seem to apply. |
Liam Todd Bloodstar
The Dothraki
2
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 04:33:00 -
[235] - Quote
Cursan Voran wrote:So how much did Somer Blink actually make from this?
Is the 35 trillion figure being claimed total nonsense or not?
I would like to know this...
Because if they actually made 35 trillion.... That equates to almost $1million at PLEX prices. |
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
677
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 09:06:00 -
[236] - Quote
Well, all there is now is to wait for the inevitable RMT scandal. Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |
Scooter McCabe
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
302
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 06:13:00 -
[237] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Tao Dolcino wrote:
Damn, you're right. In fact what is annoying me the most with the CSM is that they claim to do a lot of things for us which they don't have the right to tell us about. It's maybe true, but in a normal democracy, the ones who are supposed to represent you (the CSM is supposed to represent us, right ?) have the duty to report to us what they do. They are accountable for what they do in our name. I don't have to believe them, i have the right to read transparent and complete reports.
You're serious, aren't you? 8 seasons of working to build trust with CCP to the point that we are allowed to see things that warrant an NDA. And you would have us throw away that trust by being 'open and transparent'. Representation is more than being spies to what is coming next. It is telling CCP what will happen if they do this or that. It is bringing concerns of the players to CCP. We are not your reporters or your pipeline to the 3 or 5 year plans. I signed an NDA and i have seen things, heard things, that give reason for that document. m btw if you think any democracy is totally transparent you live in a utopia far beyond any way for me to reach you with an argument based on rational thought
I think you need to step down from the CSM as your attitude does not reflect what the actual role of a CSM member should be. The whole reason the CSM came into existence were CCP was an incident just like this. In fact the CSM was designed to bridge the schism of trust between CCP and the player base, not the other way around. CCP was supposed to be getting better over those 8 years and regaining the players trust.
You are certainly not a "spy," you are a safeguard against what could happen when CCP got ethically lazy. Trust can only exist in an environment that is open and transparent. A lack of transparency is an EVEmail privately telling a group of players not to suddenly rush the market with gifted ships because "it would look weird." That's exactly the thing you are supposed to protect against. You hand waving this all away because of an NDA is just chicken ****.
What if CCP told you that they were going to secretly favor a select few players and this was all going to be covered under the NDA so you can't alert the player base something is terribly wrong? What becomes of your purpose on the CSM?
As for democracies not being "totally transparent" you'll notice that people seem to have a problem a lack of transparency in real life. The argument for the necessity of transparency is a rational one and is a reoccurring theme in what makes for good governance. The other part of good governance is actually representing those that elected you and I don't remember the player base clamoring the enabling of CCP's secrecy and favoritism. |
Argus Sorn
Star Frontiers Dirt Nap Squad.
146
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 06:40:00 -
[238] - Quote
Has there been an official CCP response on any of this?
As Trebor said, there are some issues here that are CCP's business decision to make - but their decisions have been horrdenous.
There is literally no defense for this sort of favoritism. The fact is that the only way to truly be sure there are no conflicts of interest is to avoid absolutely everything and anything that even smells of one. Engaging in the slightest of questionable activities opens the door to tremendous abuse and EVEN IF NOT ABUSED, creates questions that seed distrustt between the company and its customer base. And that is exactly what we are seeing here.
And nothing can really be said to ever make that customer base feel comfortable with the situation. The fact is that the appearance creates the sentiment, no matter what the truth. This is why you simply NEVER engage in this sort of favoritism. And CCP Pokethulu makes the age old mistake of trying to defend by saying that CCP will be able to make sure it is not abused and remains balanced. These are the sorts of claims made by the foolish and corrupt. No one can be sure this is not abused - therefore it should not occur. Simple as that.
No player run organization should be gifted items of such significant value within the game. Give them plaques, letters, tours of CCP offices, or their name engraved on the walls of Hilmar's private bathroom - but to grant them items of in game value is to give them isk. And herein lies the problem. For CCP to be in the business of handing out isk to players is highly disturbing and threatens the integrity of the game itself. Even when those items are given to be given out via lottery - they will profit the entity in question, therefore providing them with isk! Why is CCP basically handing a ton of isk over to SomerBLINK?
I sat with Hilmar at Fan Fest and had dinner with him. I basically said something along the lines that I felt he got a bit of a rough shake when it came to the whole monocle debacle. I mean, why can't a CEO be glad his company is making money? Despite my support, he took ownership and apologized and made it clear he felt he had made a mistake, and had failed to understand what the players wanted.
Hilmar, if you have any sense of what the players care about you will realize what a tremendous mistake this favoritism toward SomerBLINK is. It reeks of impropriety and corruption and secret deals with Somer. And for your own people to sit there and say they think Somer is 100% trustworthy - first it makes them look like complete fools and shows a complete failure on their part to understand the problem. Does CCP know who every alt of every Somer employee is? Why you might think so, I highly doubt it given that I've seen more than one player receive a permaban on their main while their alts did not. Once again: the ONLY way to insure no impropriety is to not engage in any activity that could come close to it.
So now, on the heels of this we find that Somer 'employees' are being gifted hundreds of billions of isk in special release ships. Once again, this is giving players isk. And for what? Because they are such a great fansite? They have already been rewarded for this. If they've paid out more than a quadrillion in isk, then just think how much they've made in profit! That profit is their reward. CCP is going to hand them rare, in game prizes for being good at getting you to pay them isk? That's ludicrous. Clearly there is some level of bias here, or plain stupidity... one or the other.
And please realize, Somer is just as much to blame. It is the responsibility of a business to turn down gifts that could either result in or give an image of impropriety.
So for the players, the answer is simple: stop patronizing SomerBlink. Boycott SomerBlink and if they truly value your business they will return any and all gifts and prize ships. Otherwise, kiss them goodby and stop handing over your hard earned isk so that they can bask in the glory of CCP's adoration. They are being gifted ships from CCP for one reason: YOU GAVE THEM ISK. So, stop giving them your isk. They clearly don't deserve it.
Argus
P.S. And for the love of god, stop witch hunting the CSM on this. Look to Somer and CCP as that is where the problem is. Boycott Somer and demand better of CCP. |
Scooter McCabe
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
303
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Posted - 2013.10.05 06:46:00 -
[239] - Quote
Argus Sorn wrote: P.S. And for the love of god, stop witch hunting the CSM on this. Look to Somer and CCP as that is where the problem is. Boycott Somer and demand better of CCP.
A witch hunt would be like going after people who sign their posts. This is a legitimate expression of concern that the people elected to the CSM may not understand why it is they are actually there. |
Argus Sorn
Star Frontiers Dirt Nap Squad.
146
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Posted - 2013.10.05 06:55:00 -
[240] - Quote
Scooter McCabe wrote:Argus Sorn wrote: P.S. And for the love of god, stop witch hunting the CSM on this. Look to Somer and CCP as that is where the problem is. Boycott Somer and demand better of CCP.
A witch hunt would be like going after people who sign their posts. This is a legitimate expression of concern that the people elected to the CSM may not understand why it is they are actually there.
I get your point and you are entitled to your opinion. However I think it has derailed the discussion from something which seems more concerning to me, and that is CCP gifting isk to EVE players because they think that their gambling site is nifty.
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