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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 63 post(s) |
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CCP RedDawn
C C P C C P Alliance
386
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Posted - 2013.11.15 08:52:00 -
[331] - Quote
Lena Lazair wrote:I edited my previous post to include a bunch of numbers and in particular a suggestion for how to balance the multipliers on the Ascendancy implants that makes sense with the existing WS-6xx values and gives the LG Omega a reason to exist. Just adding this reply to bump thread for visibility since all that cool info went into a quiet, unassuming edit :)
I'm passing this on to CCP Fear but at this late stage of the game, I'd bet that any further changes to the implants will be after release. Team Kuromaku |
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CCP Fear
C C P C C P Alliance
257
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Posted - 2013.11.15 11:00:00 -
[332] - Quote
While balancing the implants we wanted to keep consistent patterns between the implant sets we have already. This however posed the problem that the existing hardwire made the Omega Ascendancy implants rather undesireable. We tried increasing the power but the overall power-curve was just too much.
We are discussing options right now and we will be including a balance pass on them very very soon after Rubicon hits TQ. But unfortunately we are only a few days away from release and can't include it in the release proper.
Stay tuned for more info. |
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Maru Sha
The Department of Justice
31
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Posted - 2013.11.15 12:55:00 -
[333] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: Sure it will... unless you're capable of making some simple risk/reward assesment.
Why should you NOT bother with Ghost Sites?
- they're randomly spawned = you may not find any while you're logged in - everyone can see them if just looks for them = you'll be competing with the guy who undocked 30 seconds earlier & everyone else in local - the first player to arrive triggers a random hidden timer = the NPC may spawn before you're done or even have a chance to try - the loot is destroyed if you fail to hack it = the sites may be spoiled by failed hacks even before you start trying - the NPC will be powerful enough so only strong ships can withstand them = you risk getting killed by vicious NPCs unless you bring a powerful fit which would be better used elsewhere - NPCs have no bounty nor loot = if you miss, you totally miss - drops are random = even if you do everything right, you may get only carp, supercrap or ubercrap for your efforts - hisec will not get BPC nor anything high grade = even if you try, you're assured to not get anything worth it, never
Don't know you, but I like to log out feeling like I accomplished something...
In other words it will be challenging and only few people will do it while the demand for the implants will justify a certain price on the market which should be stable with low input? Well, that sounds just alright to me ;-)
On the other hand ... with "it" I meant the new implants and the new possibility to assemble your own implants.
Yet, on another note ... I agree, certain aspects of the Ghost sites could be improved. |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Forsak3n.
384
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Posted - 2013.11.15 14:37:00 -
[334] - Quote
I went and played around with these last night to get an idea of what to expect and see how well (or not) it would work. For my testing I started with this character and brought a Stratios with T1 hacking module. My skills for combat are very well trained. Hacking/exploration skills are slightly above average.
My Stratios was shield tanked with a single hacking module, 10MN MWD, and damage mods for both drones and lasers. First run on an easy site I completed all 4 cans and thought "Well, that was easy." How wrong I was!
After a couple more easy runs I found that the timers on all sites were often ridiculously short. It seemed that first run was simply luck. RNG is random, amirite? So I went back and refit to an armor tank with cargo scanners. This allowed me to scan the cans for the good stuff (implant/depot BPCs) and go directly for those first.
I found my tank was sufficient to survive a failed hacking attempt and escape from the rats with a comfortable margin. But looking at my oft shredded armor, I thought that having an armor repper or depot of my own in the cargo so I could refit to an armor repper would be very nice.
After several successful attempts on the low level sites I went for the higher ones. But my hacking skills were not sufficient to complete the grids. At this point I swapped over to my exploration alt.
My alt is not a real combat pilot. She can fly nothing bigger than dictor, bomber, haulers, or covops frigates. But she has max hacking/archaeology skills. So I dropped her into a Helios and went to work.
15 seconds after decloaking the rats show up. Seriously? 15 seconds? Try to run and the can explodes. Pop. -1 Helios.
Maybe just bad luck on the timer. I reship and try again. First can completed. Beta implant BPC. Start on the second can because of meta depot BPCs. Rats show up. Result is the same. Down another Helios.
Ok. Let's try the SoE frigate.
30 seconds this time. Still not enough time to finish the first can. I try to run and pop. Killed by 1 can again.
Once more. This time with full-on exp tank.
I get the first can done. Rats show up during the second can. Try to run and... Not dead yet! 10% structure. Oh, wait. Still rats. Pop.
Well. This is pointless. Because the timers on the sites are so short, if you bring a frigate of any kind you will lose it if you try more than one can. Half the time, you will lose it on the first can. They simply cannot handle the aoe damage. I know this is a very small sample size. But I don't need to run 1000 sites to know that the results should come out the same on a regular basis.
Here is what is going to happen in hisec: the hordes of newbs to whom these sites are the intended audience will flock in and get blapped over and over again. The forums will fill with hisec pubbie tears about how broken these sites are.
Meanwhile, those of us that can fly the Stratios or other suitable exploration fit cruiser will flood hisec for the easy content and make bank. The harder sites will almost never get finished because the combination of ridiculously short timer and hacking game difficulty pretty much guarantees the rats will appear before the first can is ever finished.
No one of these attributes (short timer, aoe damage, and hacking game difficulty) is OP by itself. But the combination of them is going to make these implant sets very difficult to complete. It will however, make the Stratios highly desirable for nulsec/w-space ghost sites due to it's place as the only cruiser-sized hull with hacking bonuses. It can at least escape a failed attempt without dying.
Timers need to be longer on average, and have slightly less variation in total time before rats show up. Let me put it this way: instead of throwing 1d12, throw 2d6. This will change the timer from a totally random number to something a little more predictable. (Table-top reference ftw) Free Ripley Weaver! |
Cheng Musana
BetaMax Beta
26
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Posted - 2013.11.15 14:51:00 -
[335] - Quote
After reading the feedback i think i better take concords advice and stay away from them. Otherwise i just loose my ship for nothing. Ah well i better stick with relic+combat sites in null then trying to attempt to run a ghost site. |
Nicen Jehr
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
283
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Posted - 2013.11.15 14:52:00 -
[336] - Quote
I posted this in the thread for the Rubicon trailer, and then the Ghost Site Devblog thread, but now I found this thread which also seems suitable.
---
So the CONCORD guy is like 'Stay the f* out, there will be consequences.' But the only consequences are the pirates' response, there are no consequences from the empires.
If you really are aiming to sow dissension between capsuleers and the empires, you should grant a suspect flag to all capsuleers on grid when a ghost site explodes in empire space. CONCORD's sensor arrays (presumably the same ones that keep Local running) would notice the energy anomaly and punish the capsuleer for disobeying the mandate. Little Things to improve GëíGïüGëí-á| My Little Things posts |
Solstice Project
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
4520
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Posted - 2013.11.15 15:40:00 -
[337] - Quote
I hqven't done any sites yet, but i need to ask for something related.
Could you PLEASE not make NPCs spawn, but warp in?
It makes no sense that they all just magically appear and assuming that they all sit close by with cloaks makes even less sense.
If you could somehow manage that NPCs stopped spawning out of thin air vacuum in EvE, but actually have to warp in JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE it would add a lot.
Thank you. |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
56
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Posted - 2013.11.15 15:42:00 -
[338] - Quote
Soldarius wrote: Here is what is going to happen in hisec: the hordes of newbs to whom these sites are the intended audience will flock in and get blapped over and over again.
Good.
Quote:The forums will fill with hisec pubbie tears about how broken these sites are.
They should be mocked for being bad.
Quote:Meanwhile, those of us that can fly the Stratios or other suitable exploration fit cruiser will flood hisec for the easy content and make bank. The harder sites will almost never get finished because the combination of ridiculously short timer and hacking game difficulty pretty much guarantees the rats will appear before the first can is ever finished.
The only time I've encountered a timer as short as you're describing is when there was already another player in the site when I warped in. |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
56
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Posted - 2013.11.15 15:50:00 -
[339] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Maru Sha wrote:Looking forward to the new game play opportunities it will create. :-) Sure it will... unless you're capable of making some simple risk/reward assesment. Why should you NOT bother with Ghost Sites? - they're randomly spawned = you may not find any while you're logged in - everyone can see them if just looks for them = you'll be competing with the guy who undocked 30 seconds earlier & everyone else in local - the first player to arrive triggers a random hidden timer = the NPC may spawn before you're done or even have a chance to try - the loot is destroyed if you fail to hack it = the sites may be spoiled by failed hacks even before you start trying - the NPC will be powerful enough so only strong ships can withstand them = you risk getting killed by vicious NPCs unless you bring a powerful fit which would be better used elsewhere - NPCs have no bounty nor loot = if you miss, you totally miss - drops are random = even if you do everything right, you may get only carp, supercrap or ubercrap for your efforts - hisec will not get BPC nor anything high grade = even if you try, you're assured to not get anything worth it, never Don't know you, but I like to log out feeling like I accomplished something...
Tell me about it. Next expansion, CCP should just put an "Accomplish Something" button in my CQ. If I'm about to log off and haven't managed to do anything useful, I can push the button and get some loot and possibly an achievement. |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Forsak3n.
384
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Posted - 2013.11.15 15:54:00 -
[340] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:The only time I've encountered a timer as short as you're describing is when there was already another player in the site when I warped in.
With my small sample size I suppose its possible I was just extremely unlucky. But every site I went into I was the first one there. I was able to blitz through them because of max virus strength. But getting all 4 cans in a small site was almost impossible.
Free Ripley Weaver! |
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
56
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Posted - 2013.11.15 15:59:00 -
[341] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:The only time I've encountered a timer as short as you're describing is when there was already another player in the site when I warped in. With my small sample size I suppose its possible I was just extremely unlucky. But every site I went into I was the first one there. I was able to blitz through them because of max virus strength. But getting all 4 cans in a small site was almost impossible.
Well, that's obviously by design. There would be no point in having them detonate if it were reasonably practical to get all of the cans all or even most of the time.
The whole point of the mechanic is that you have to actually weigh the option to keep hacking cans against the risk of eating a detonation. |
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CCP Habakuk
C C P C C P Alliance
798
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Posted - 2013.11.15 16:45:00 -
[342] - Quote
FYI: EZA-FM is now no longer spawning all the sites. With the next reboot they should be gone completely. CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Gridlock-á Bug reporting | Mass Testing |
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Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Forsak3n.
384
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Posted - 2013.11.15 17:55:00 -
[343] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Well, that's obviously by design. There would be no point in having them detonate if it were reasonably practical to get all of the cans all or even most of the time.
The whole point of the mechanic is that you have to actually weigh the option to keep hacking cans against the risk of eating a detonation.
True enough. Should one decide to run hisec sites in a frigate, I would recommend just grabbing a stack of T1 exploration frigates and using those. Otherwise, you gonna lose a lot of stuff. The timer WILL screw you half the time. As for less secure space, a Stratios really is the best choice. Frankly, its the best choice everywhere.
But I would still like to see a more predictable timer. Not a lot more predictable. Just a little bit more. Free Ripley Weaver! |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
56
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Posted - 2013.11.15 18:03:00 -
[344] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:Well, that's obviously by design. There would be no point in having them detonate if it were reasonably practical to get all of the cans all or even most of the time.
The whole point of the mechanic is that you have to actually weigh the option to keep hacking cans against the risk of eating a detonation. True enough. Should one decide to run hisec sites in a frigate, I would recommend just grabbing a stack of T1 exploration frigates and using those. Otherwise, you gonna lose a lot of stuff. The timer WILL screw you half the time. As for less secure space, a Stratios really is the best choice. Frankly, its the best choice everywhere. But I would still like to see a more predictable timer. Not a lot more predictable. Just a little bit more.
TBH I don't really agree with this. I threw together a buffer fit SOE frigate that survived lessers just fine, and it was far from an optimized fit - I didn't bother theorycrafting it, just tossed on whatever I thought I could make work.
I'm pretty sure a buffer-fit assault frigate could do high sec sites with minimal risk. |
Valarian Dumonte
black-body Abandon Ships
0
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Posted - 2013.11.15 19:10:00 -
[345] - Quote
CCP Habakuk wrote:FYI: EZA-FM is now no longer spawning all the sites. With the next reboot they should be gone completely.
Does that mean they will stop spawning anywhere, or that they will start to be evenly distributed across New Eden now? |
Hi O
Galactic Organization of Tariff and Trade.
4
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Posted - 2013.11.16 05:05:00 -
[346] - Quote
Just to make sure I have this straight...The container explosion itself will one shot any ship with bonuses to analyzers. On top of that there are rats to prevent pilots from salvaging their own wreckage.
Finally, you made locating these super rare sites as easy as possible thereby guaranteeing the end result will always be the same: Some kid with Fraps will warp in right after me, click his relic mod, and then immediately warp out as my ship explodes in the background all for prepubescent lulz and immediate uploading to YouTube.
Is it the strategic direction of the board to milk this cow dry, Mr. Fozzie? |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
60
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Posted - 2013.11.16 07:39:00 -
[347] - Quote
Hi O wrote:Just to make sure I have this straight...The container explosion itself will one shot any ship with bonuses to analyzers.
You don't have it straight and, in fact, being as completely wrong as you are is something that must have taken a concerted effort on your part. |
ConranAntoni
Empyrean Warriors Insidious Empire
108
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Posted - 2013.11.16 08:11:00 -
[348] - Quote
Will drone region get these sites or will it remain a barren hole? |
ExookiZ
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
105
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Posted - 2013.11.16 13:47:00 -
[349] - Quote
a strategic cruiser with the subsystems for hacking can easily handle the explosions, rig them for hacking, t2 module and even the superior level sites arent too bad. Explosions barely dent the tank at all.
Personally I wish cargo scanners wouldnt work, it really detracts from the theme of exploration, I shouldn know whats in this encrypted data bank...until I have hacked it. The Wormhole Kid |
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CCP Habakuk
C C P C C P Alliance
798
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Posted - 2013.11.16 16:05:00 -
[350] - Quote
Valarian Dumonte wrote:CCP Habakuk wrote:FYI: EZA-FM is now no longer spawning all the sites. With the next reboot they should be gone completely. Does that mean they will stop spawning anywhere, or that they will start to be evenly distributed across New Eden now?
They are now evenly distributed across New Eden (well, with the exception of Jita and not accessible regions like Jove space). But you have to fly through quite a few systems to find one. CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Gridlock-á Bug reporting | Mass Testing |
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CCP Habakuk
C C P C C P Alliance
798
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Posted - 2013.11.16 16:09:00 -
[351] - Quote
ConranAntoni wrote:Will drone region get these sites or will it remain a barren hole?
Yes, drone regions get their share. Other pirate factions have seized the opportunity and operate ghost sites there as Rogue Drones are not invested in this. CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Gridlock-á Bug reporting | Mass Testing |
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Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
1192
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Posted - 2013.11.17 06:08:00 -
[352] - Quote
Are they in rookie systems? I suggest that they be removed from those. (Ditto for wormholes). https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. The difference between an enemy and a friend is that you stab your enemies in the front. |
Orionos Irvam
Enso Holdings Inc.
107
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Posted - 2013.11.17 18:15:00 -
[353] - Quote
This has probably been covered but I'm hung over and my brain is a soup at the moment. What module do these sites require to begin hacking? Data or relic analysers? |
J'Ribs
Eleutherian Guard Villore Accords
12
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Posted - 2013.11.17 18:35:00 -
[354] - Quote
Either will work, I am told.
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NUXI7
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
152
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Posted - 2013.11.18 03:29:00 -
[355] - Quote
Quote: "The empires demand full compliance with the following directive. Capsuleer access to these illicit facilities is strictly forbidden. Unathorized interactions will be considered a violation."
-CONCORD Spokesman
Will there be concord/security/faction standing hits for entering these sites in high sec and if not why does your trailer lie? |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
94
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Posted - 2013.11.18 03:41:00 -
[356] - Quote
NUXI7 wrote:Quote: "The empires demand full compliance with the following directive. Capsuleer access to these illicit facilities is strictly forbidden. Unathorized interactions will be considered a violation."
-CONCORD Spokesman
Will there be concord/security/faction standing hits for entering these sites in high sec and if not why does your trailer lie?
Someone suggested that hacking the cans should give a suspect flag - I rather liked that idea, it seems to fit well with the theme. |
DeadNite
2 Girls - 1 Corp
17
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Posted - 2013.11.19 03:23:00 -
[357] - Quote
Spent a bit of time over the last few days looking into these sites. Here are my impressions:
First Site: Standard Blood Raider Covert Research Facility (Lowsec, 0.3 System) Object Hacked: Secure Databank Thoughts: First hack seemed pretty rough. Cleared most of the nodes and was left with 5ish firewalls. Failed the hack eventually after taking a few of them out and the Databank exploded and put me at ~70% armor from full armor/shields. Downtime happened right as I took damage and I got logged in a few minutes later when SiSi came back up. Came back on grid to find 6ish NPC cruisers and started attacking them with weapons and drones right as the site exploded. I am unsure if I triggered it by not killing a key NPC ship or the hidden timer expired. The site explosion put my ship to about ~40% armor from about 10% shields. Site explosion put my Garde IIs into ~15% structure (Have Gal Cruiser V and Drone Durability V)
Second Site: Standard Blood Raider Covert Research Facility (Lowsec, 0.3 System) Object Hacked: Secure Lab: Thoughts: The hacking board generated seemed a bit easier this time. I was able to solve it with no problems unlike before. I collected my drones as I had them out to test Sentry survivability after the first site almost killed them. I made my way to the Secure Databank and started hacking. Cruisers spawned so I engaged them and then the site exploded after about 2 minutes and 40 seconds of being on grid. Had to do the same as above to collect my Gardes.
Observations/Concerns: Drone survivability might be a problem unless this is intended as part of the risk - Assuming your drones have taken no damage, only Heavy/Sentry drones will survive (If you have Gal Cruiser to 5 and Drone durability to 5). - Guard IIs went to 10-20% structure when the site exploded having taken no damage up to that point. - Lost connection to them when the site exploded. I used the reconnect function and some where showing as incapacitated (in the first attempt, same thing happened second time but no incapacitated status). - Had to manually scoop them into drone bay after site explosion.
Rats spawned after first hack on the way to the second object a few seconds before the site blew and then warped away shortly after. - What is their purpose if the site explodes shortly after they arrive? - Perhaps one of them is the trigger for the site exploding?
Cargo scanner seems like almost a must considering the sites I did exploded shortly after the first hack. Perhaps you can bring friends to reduce the need of a cargo scanner. - Not sure how big explosion radius of the facilities are, if you bring friends make sure you can tank at least 2 explosions. (9k explosive damage each according to earlier dev post, not sure what they are now)
Make sure you can survive a single explosion - Not sure if frigs or destroyers will be viable here unless you don't mind loosing them. - Until we can figure out what causes the site to explode after first hack (assuming the timer isn't intentionally that short), GTFO after first hack...if you can.
Stratios Fit Used High Power - 3x Heavy Pulse Laser II - 1x Core Probe Launcher I - 1x Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Medium Power - 1x Relic Analyzer I - 1x 10MN Afterburner II - 2x Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I - 1x Data Analyzer I Low Power - 1x Medium Armor Repairer II - 1x Reactive Armor Hardener - 2x Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II - 1x Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer Rig Slot - 1x Medium Anti-Explosive Pump II - 1x Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II - 1x Medium Nanobot Accelerator I Charges - 6x Conflagration M - 3x Imperial Navy Multifrequency M - 6x Scorch M - 18x Navy Cap Booster 800 - 20x Sisters Core Scanner Probe - 500x Nanite Repair Paste Drones - 10x Hobgoblin II - 5x Vespa EC-600 - 8x Garde II - 10x Hammerhead II
About the fit above: I didn't really know what I was coming up against so I tried to be able to tank as much as possible in case I had to deal with several explosions while fighting NPCs. I didn't have a cargo scanner either as I was more concerned about survival. This is going to be an amazing ship for exploration.
Would love to test them out some more but only found two in over a hundred jumps as they had been removed from EZA-FM at the time I was testing.
Video of my second attempt:http://youtu.be/DyG5CM4zfJE |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
105
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Posted - 2013.11.19 04:27:00 -
[358] - Quote
You spent too much time tinkering with your drones (except PvP). There's really no need to bother with offense of any kind. The rats aren't going to hang around for very long.
Quote:- Not sure if frigs or destroyers will be viable here unless you don't mind loosing them.
The retribution I've been testing with barely notices the explosions. I have a 400mm II plate on there and raw armor of 3023.
04:20:56Combat676 from Secure Lab - Hits 04:23:05Combat605 from Secure Databank - Hits
Almost all of that damage was against my shield - the reason I took less damage the second time is because my shield hadn't fully recharged yet.
I would probably scale the tank back quite a bit on TQ. Quite certain I could make a T1 frig work, too, at least for low and high sec. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
1204
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Posted - 2013.11.19 04:38:00 -
[359] - Quote
Meh, I was looking forward to going into these in highsec in a massively buffer tanked battleship, failing them on purpose, then looting all the player wrecks created by the explosion.
Might not be able to do that now :( https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. An enemy is just a friend that you stab in the front. |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
105
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Posted - 2013.11.19 04:40:00 -
[360] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:Meh, I was looking forward to going into these in highsec in a massively buffer tanked battleship, failing them on purpose, then looting all the player wrecks created by the explosion.
Might not be able to do that now :(
It will still be lulzy for loot denial and I am sure plenty of people will be rolling up into these with active mission fits and exploration ships. |
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