EVE Search - Please Fix Retribution so it can PvP

All Channels

Ships and Modules

Please Fix Retribution so it can PvP

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Nyxus	Posted - 2006.02.16 18:22:00 - [91] DPS of some AF's DPS of AF's The Retribution's damage is marginally better at best with 1 damage mod. Even less so when you consider that the Ishkur can choose damage types. The enyo does more, but requires you to be close range and can get there becuase it has enough slots to use an ab + web/scram. The Harpy has less overall DPS, but has a massive range advantage and enough cpu to fit for EW fairly easily making it more versatile. Retribution: Marginally better DPS, ~10 to 15dps if you are in range. If you fit the AB in order to get in range you are useless for anything other than slightly better tanking. Whoopee. Please change 1 high slot to a mid. Would anyone trade a midslot for 15 more dps? I know that I wouldn't. The Gallente AF's are a perfectly designed pair. Each one with a specific role and very good in that role. Both can contribute to gangs or do moderate soloing. Both have good DPS and enough mids to do the job, and the cpu/grid to fit what you need. All AF's should be like the Gallente ones. Nyxus Macgyver can build an airplane out of gum and paper clips, but Chuck Norris can kill him and take it.
Spartan III	Posted - 2006.02.16 18:40:00 - [92] Originally by: Nyxus DPS of some AF's DPS of AF's The Retribution's damage is marginally better at best with 1 damage mod. Even less so when you consider that the Ishkur can choose damage types. The enyo does more, but requires you to be close range and can get there becuase it has enough slots to use an ab + web/scram. The Harpy has less overall DPS, but has a massive range advantage and enough cpu to fit for EW fairly easily making it more versatile. Retribution: Marginally better DPS, ~10 to 15dps if you are in range. If you fit the AB in order to get in range you are useless for anything other than slightly better tanking. Whoopee. Please change 1 high slot to a mid. Would anyone trade a midslot for 15 more dps? I know that I wouldn't. The Gallente AF's are a perfectly designed pair. Each one with a specific role and very good in that role. Both can contribute to gangs or do moderate soloing. Both have good DPS and enough mids to do the job, and the cpu/grid to fit what you need. All AF's should be like the Gallente ones. Nyxus Thanks for that graph and excellent post. This really shows you that the retribution would not be overpowered. The retri does almost no more damage yet everyone else gets more mids which can be used for EW and render the retri useless, and the retri will be unable to fight with EW of its own If the retri doesn't get 2 mids than neither should the other AFs, that way both the "other" AF and the retri would get that choice of warping away in a 1 on 1. ******************** Join Public Channel "Christian Public Access" for great fellowship and fun OMFWTFYarrBQPwn3d!!!11eleventy-one ~kieron
Livia Tarquina	Posted - 2006.02.16 19:23:00 - [93] It seems like its a lot when you add the damage up. 15Dps is 900 Dpm. In 30 seconds thats an extra 450 dmg on top of what you and your COUGH tackler or EW buddy is doing. This is like arguing over sports cars. A corvette is faster in the straightaways while a porsche is faster in the turns. One has a big engine and the other has a small but more efficient engine. They both win races but in different ways. Its not like the corvette is the true race car and we should all drive corvettes to work.
BillyBong2	Posted - 2006.02.16 19:37:00 - [94] Originally by: Spartan III If the retri doesn't get 2 mids than neither should the other AFs, that way both the "other" AF and the retri would get that choice of warping away in a 1 on 1. Sorry, No. Someone will come on here and say cry more. IF you want what you have been talking about, a solo AF tackler, find another race to pilot. This is about choices, plain and simple. I like the way it is and want it left alone. Siggy by Esturary
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2006.02.16 19:51:00 - [95] I think the obvious conclusion to draw here is that the Vengeance needs to be made more effective.
Lienzo	Posted - 2006.02.16 19:53:00 - [96] If there was such a thing as a micro remote armor rep the beam retribution would be an even better gang ship. Small remote reps/arrays use too much cap for frigs and have too high fitting reqs.
Meridius	Posted - 2006.02.16 20:09:00 - [97] Originally by: LWMaverick Man.. your a pain in the ass huh? Here we go: 4 Medium pulses t2 Small dimishing nos Fleeting web(90%) 2 Small t2 armor reps N-type Enegergized thermic(or t2) CPR HS T2 /Mav Wow what a ****ty setup. You'll be racing to your target at a top speed of what, 300m/s with guns that have an optimal of 5km? So is that your role in a gang? By the time you get to your target tech I Rifters would have outdamaged you Why do i bother. _ __ WE get EVERRYYWHHHEERREEEE!!1 - Imaran
Livia Tarquina	Posted - 2006.02.16 20:26:00 - [98] armor tanking just using passive modules and armor plating the insane amount of damage resistances would make it take a long time to kill. That'd be like locking up a tanks treads and having the barrel pointed right in your face.
LWMaverick	Posted - 2006.02.16 20:34:00 - [99] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: LWMaverick Man.. your a pain in the ass huh? Here we go: 4 Medium pulses t2 Small dimishing nos Fleeting web(90%) 2 Small t2 armor reps N-type Enegergized thermic(or t2) CPR HS T2 /Mav Wow what a ****ty setup. You'll be racing to your target at a top speed of what, 300m/s with guns that have an optimal of 5km? So is that your role in a gang? By the time you get to your target tech I Rifters would have outdamaged you Why do i bother. Yeah why do you bother?.. Youre just another example of a guy that havent flown the ship he is talking about... now bugger off, my setup is tested and i know it works, how about you flame boy? /Mav With great power, comes great responsibility.
Wizard	Posted - 2006.02.16 20:39:00 - [100] Edited by: Wizard on 16/02/2006 20:40:34 Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Kryptic1 Originally by: Spartan III The retribution can't tackle period. If the slots could just be changed from 5/1/5 to 4/2/5 than it could still have the tankability needed for missions so carebears woudn't whine, but it would actually be able to tackle and be able to do solo PvP or at least tackle in gangs. Have you noticed how every race's AFs (except caldari) include one that has few midslots but does more damage and has more tank, and one that has 3 midslots, but doesn't do as much damage or tank as much? Do you know that Amarr has another(!) AF called the Vengeance, which happens to have 3 midslots? Have you ever thought that maybe if you wanted to have a tackling AF, you could use the vengeance? Have you noticed that the Retribution is the only AF with 1 midslot? To make things worse it gets a useless highslot instead of getting a launcher slot like the Wolf, Enyo or Harpy. The Vengeance is a piece of ****, only a nub would say otherwise. Normally aggree with u meridius on your posts but i have to disagree, i love the amarr afs ESPECIALLY the vengeance. ^^cant think of a 1v1 ive lost in my vengeance v any other af/intie from memory, i will however put up no arguement in the debate that the retri needs 1 more mid slot ( take the 5th high away ). If its not solo for you then the retri in small gangs is awesome, medium beam t2 setup rocks for damage.
Nyxus	Posted - 2006.02.16 20:50:00 - [101] Just for kicks.....I added in a Vengeance. OMG the Veng sucks! No Wai! Wow. I knew it blew chunks. I just didn't realize quite exactly how much....... Please note the Ishkur and the Veng. Both are 4/3/3, it's just that the Ishkur does 40 MORE DPS than a Veng and gets a lot more choice on damage types. Oh yea, in this graph it doesnt have any damage mods on either, where the Veng has 1 HSII, which is a completely unrealistic fitting for the Veng. So can anyone explain a situation where I would rather have a Vengeance over an Ishkur? Because I can't think of one. But of course I can't really think of a situation where a Retribution significantly outshines an Enyo either. Macgyver can build an airplane out of gum and paper clips, but Chuck Norris can kill him and take it.
Livia Tarquina	Posted - 2006.02.16 20:54:00 - [102] Thats not very scientific even though you have a graph with nice colored lines. The setups are hardly similar and you used drones on the ishkur too. "Big guns and heavy armor what else is there?" --Amarrian Admiral before entering battle against Jove Navy
Liare	Posted - 2006.02.16 21:13:00 - [103] Originally by: LWMaverick Originally by: Meridius Originally by: LWMaverick Man.. your a pain in the ass huh? Here we go: 4 Medium pulses t2 Small dimishing nos Fleeting web(90%) 2 Small t2 armor reps N-type Enegergized thermic(or t2) CPR HS T2 /Mav Wow what a ****ty setup. You'll be racing to your target at a top speed of what, 300m/s with guns that have an optimal of 5km? So is that your role in a gang? By the time you get to your target tech I Rifters would have outdamaged you Why do i bother. Yeah why do you bother?.. Youre just another example of a guy that havent flown the ship he is talking about... now bugger off, my setup is tested and i know it works, how about you flame boy? /Mav near total lack of mobility ? check short ranged weapons ? check extremely limited tactical flexibility ? check where is the redeeming part of this setup hidden again ? both of the Amarr AF's blows PVP wise, while some people might prefer not to use them for that i fail to understand why the gaping shortcomings should be accepted. the Retribution has good damage and tanking ability to boot, yes but its such a inflexible tool from a tactical point of view (hampered by either a lack of mobility or a lack of mobility denial tools) compared with other AF's. and the Vengance is just flashy to look at, it has better survivability than a T1 frigate, and the ability to mound a jammer along side its typical armaments, big deal since its damage output is limited at best compared to ships it should be able to compete against. suffice to say, i have yet to claim a single AF kill with my Vengance unless it has been more or less "my show", such as very close range on Artillery wolf's and so on. (im running medium pulse's and a standard launcher) my retribution has whooped a enyo more than once who made the rather foolish mistake of attempting to compete with its tanking and damage output in close. but that is more about him thinking he could compete with four medium pulse lasers at close range than the actual ships capabilities, the lack of mobility or ability to keep a hostile in check dooms this vessel if the opposing pilot has half a brain. compare that to the harpy i used to fly, before it met a untimely end, or the Thrashers i toss away it just doesnt make sence to pick a Amarr AF. _____________________________ Ex-Coretech, We still shoot people.
Grut	Posted - 2006.02.16 21:38:00 - [104] Give it an extra mid.... dont bump the cpu & it'll have to drop a dmg mod to fit anything reasonable. WTF is this bring a tackler bs.... 2v1 ofc you'll win 2v2 and your tacklers gonna get owned long before you get into range. I used a retri for abit to see if it was as pants as everyone said, it is. Incase some nubs handnt noticed frig vs frig pvp is FAST you willnot coordinate a tackler/af combo you need to lock whatevers close enough pop it fast which requires a webbie. gl hitting inties passing at 4kms . 's not even good 1v1 a blaster enyo would wipe the floor with it. Just to rub salt in you cant even get a good beam setup to fit Kinsy > deadman you there? Kinsy > are either of us in pods, becase we dont know... Mostly harmless [ 2005.12.09 19:22:50 ] (notify) You have started trying to warp scramble the Dreadnought
Nyxus	Posted - 2006.02.16 21:39:00 - [105] Edited by: Nyxus on 16/02/2006 21:42:11 Originally by: Livia Tarquina Thats not very scientific even though you have a graph with nice colored lines. The setups are hardly similar and you used drones on the ishkur too. There are no setups other than the weapons (T2 for main weapons, t1 for secondary to try to keep it realistic) and the damage mods. I only used the number of damage mods that are normally feasible to fit on an AF setup, 1 for most of the AF's. I even put 1 on the Vengeance even though it HIGHLY unlikely someone would mount a damage mod on that ship. Please note the Ishkur didn't get any damage mods at all. If you have different weapons you would like to see I will be happy to post them. Ironically, if you put t2 weapons on the secondaries of the Harpy, Enyo, etc it will only further marginalize the damage difference between them and the Retribution. I have 125 II's on the Ishkur, if you want me to put Neut II's on it I will. Retribution needs 1 high swapped to a mid. Vengeace needs....something to make it as useful as an Ishkur. EDIT: The Ishkur has drones in the DPS figure because it has a dronebay. 15m3 4tw baby! Macgyver can build an airplane out of gum and paper clips, but Chuck Norris can kill him and take it.
Liare	Posted - 2006.02.16 21:41:00 - [106] Originally by: Nyxus Originally by: Livia Tarquina Thats not very scientific even though you have a graph with nice colored lines. The setups are hardly similar and you used drones on the ishkur too. There are no setups other than the weapons (T2 for main weapons, t1 for secondary to try to keep it realistic) and the damage mods. I only used the number of damage mods that are normally feasible to fit on an AF setup, 1 for most of the AF's. I even put 1 on the Vengeance even though it HIGHLY unlikely someone would mount a damage mod on that ship. Please note the Ishkur didn't get any damage mods at all. If you have different weapons you would like to see I will be happy to post them. Ironically, if you put t2 weapons on the secondaries of the Harpy, Enyo, etc it will only further marginalize the damage difference between them and the Retribution. I have 125 II's on the Ishkur, if you want me to put Neut II's on it I will. Retribution needs 1 high swapped to a mid. Vengeace needs....something to make it as useful as an Ishkur. enough PG to make it a viable ship with a rack of medium beams and a standard launcher putting it in the "long" range amarr slot perhaps ? (or say, a specific bonus for medium beam lasers or something) _____________________________ Ex-Coretech, We still shoot people.
Nyxus	Posted - 2006.02.16 21:56:00 - [107] Nyxus>Uh oh, I made a mistake! Unwashed Masses> o rly! Nyxus>Yep, I put cruiser lasers on the veng in the last comparison. Ironically, when I corrected it the Veng DPS actually went down a little bit. AF DPS - Veng still sucks Just for fun I put Beams and a standard launcher on the Veng to see if that would help. Beam Veng DPS Nope. Veng still sucks, and can't hold a candle to the Harpy's range. Was worth trying though. Nyxus Macgyver can build an airplane out of gum and paper clips, but Chuck Norris can kill him and take it.
Meridius	Posted - 2006.02.16 22:15:00 - [108] Originally by: Wizard Normally aggree with u meridius on your posts but i have to disagree, i love the amarr afs ESPECIALLY the vengeance. ^^cant think of a 1v1 ive lost in my vengeance v any other af/intie from memory, i will however put up no arguement in the debate that the retri needs 1 more mid slot ( take the 5th high away ). Why would you want to use a Vengeance when you can use an Ishkur, do way more damage, pick your damage types and do damage from Harpy like ranges. Originally by: Nyxus OMG the Veng sucks! No Wai! Check that _ __ WE get EVERRYYWHHHEERREEEE!!1 - Imaran
Meridius	Posted - 2006.02.16 22:17:00 - [109] Originally by: Liare Originally by: LWMaverick Originally by: Meridius Originally by: LWMaverick Man.. your a pain in the ass huh? Here we go: 4 Medium pulses t2 Small dimishing nos Fleeting web(90%) 2 Small t2 armor reps N-type Enegergized thermic(or t2) CPR HS T2 /Mav Wow what a ****ty setup. You'll be racing to your target at a top speed of what, 300m/s with guns that have an optimal of 5km? So is that your role in a gang? By the time you get to your target tech I Rifters would have outdamaged you Why do i bother. Yeah why do you bother?.. Youre just another example of a guy that havent flown the ship he is talking about... now bugger off, my setup is tested and i know it works, how about you flame boy? /Mav near total lack of mobility ? check short ranged weapons ? check extremely limited tactical flexibility ? check where is the redeeming part of this setup hidden again ? Quoted for saving me the time _ __ WE get EVERRYYWHHHEERREEEE!!1 - Imaran
OrangeAfroMan	Posted - 2006.02.16 22:33:00 - [110] Edited by: OrangeAfroMan on 16/02/2006 22:41:20 Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Kryptic1 Originally by: Spartan III The retribution can't tackle period. If the slots could just be changed from 5/1/5 to 4/2/5 than it could still have the tankability needed for missions so carebears woudn't whine, but it would actually be able to tackle and be able to do solo PvP or at least tackle in gangs. Have you noticed how every race's AFs (except caldari) include one that has few midslots but does more damage and has more tank, and one that has 3 midslots, but doesn't do as much damage or tank as much? Do you know that Amarr has another(!) AF called the Vengeance, which happens to have 3 midslots? Have you ever thought that maybe if you wanted to have a tackling AF, you could use the vengeance? Have you noticed that the Retribution is the only AF with 1 midslot? To make things worse it gets a useless highslot instead of getting a launcher slot like the Wolf, Enyo or Harpy. The Vengeance is a piece of ****, only a nub would say otherwise. Yeah man, UTILITY high slots are so worthless. I wonder why they're called... UTILITY?! Retri is fine as is, if it had 2 mids it would be imbalanced. AFs are for two things: Tanking and Shooting, if you want to tackle, get a friend who flys an Inty. Or a frigate. Or that has a brain. Also it would be very dissappointing to see the Retri become just like every other AF..
Livia Tarquina	Posted - 2006.02.16 22:47:00 - [111] Methinks the people here are having buyer's remorse at spending 20 mill ISK on a ship. "Big guns and heavy armor what else is there?" --Amarrian Admiral before entering battle against Jove Navy
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.02.16 23:12:00 - [112] it is not a solo PvP ship, and turning a high to a mid would over power it drastically. IMO, it shouldn't be changed, and stay as the ultimate gang AF, but if it gets changed, a low should become a mid, not a high sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault
tenp1	Posted - 2006.02.17 00:22:00 - [113] Edited by: tenp1 on 17/02/2006 00:22:35 How would moving the utility high to a mid make it overpowered? Plenty of people have been saying it but none have been explaining why. Like I said previously, I can only assume that they assume extra mid with extra cpu, which would not need to be the case, so not overpowered in any way. So again I repeat how does the extra mid make it overpowered, if it has to reduce tank or damage or both to be able to use it? . A simple explanation is all it takes, claims without facts is not good enough. On this setup, the ret would be short range, slow and about 7 cpu short 163 cpu needed, 156 available (hence the cpu II). 4xMedium Pulse II 1xFaint scram, 1xFleeting Web 1x S. rep II, Energised Thermic II, CPU II, HS II, nano or refuge adapive nano plate. If you want longer range you would need to use dual light beam and sufer a further damage reduction. Again I don't see the problem.
Meridius	Posted - 2006.02.17 00:24:00 - [114] Originally by: HippoKing IMO, it shouldn't be changed, and stay as the ultimate gang AF I'm sorry, can someone explain how 20 more dps over the competition makes it the 'ultimate' gang AF? Sounds like bull**** to me. Give it another turret so it leads the DPS race by a significant value. _ __ WE get EVERRYYWHHHEERREEEE!!1 - Imaran
OrangeAfroMan	Posted - 2006.02.17 00:27:00 - [115] Edited by: OrangeAfroMan on 17/02/2006 00:29:52 Perhaps its tanking ability or the ability to use that utility high to run a remote repper? While keeping such great dps.. Malka Badi'a = My idol, listen to her.
Aeaus	Posted - 2006.02.17 01:10:00 - [116] Retribution will probably fight close anyways, so that utility -> nosferatu for draining and maintaining even more capacitor. Secondly the T2 laser crystals catapult it into extreme damage ranges, and having one damage mod on a retribution isn't exactly the brightest thing in the world. To fly a retribution effectively you need a proper setup, and that setup will of course include a propulsion mod in the one medium slot. Just because you can't do everything you want in it, doesn't mean it should be changed! And before you comment yes I fly retributions, and yes I have plenty of experience with them. The vengeance on the other hand is pretty crap except for one or two overly awkard setups.
Livia Tarquina	Posted - 2006.02.17 01:17:00 - [117] 20 dmg per second means 600 damage in 30 seconds and 1200 in a minute. Spike damage is good in a ganking situation but DOT builds up in a gang on gang situation. "Big guns and heavy armor what else is there?" --Amarrian Admiral before entering battle against Jove Navy
Spartan III	Posted - 2006.02.17 01:23:00 - [118] Originally by: Aeaus Retribution will probably fight close anyways, so that utility -> nosferatu for draining and maintaining even more capacitor. Secondly the T2 laser crystals catapult it into extreme damage ranges, and having one damage mod on a retribution isn't exactly the brightest thing in the world. To fly a retribution effectively you need a proper setup, and that setup will of course include a propulsion mod in the one medium slot. err no the retribution having only 1 mid slot will not be able to fight close because the enemy will dominate the range since it can fit an AB, Web+ more depending on its mids. The retribution will have to fit a disruptor to hold its opponent and will be unable to get within range without an AB. If it equips and AB instead than the enemy pilot could just equip an AB and web, still dominating the range.... ******************** Join Public Channel "Christian Public Access" for great fellowship and fun OMFWTFYarrBQPwn3d!!!11eleventy-one ~kieron
Antic	Posted - 2006.02.17 02:00:00 - [119] if you want to have a tank on a harpy in PVP you dont get a scrambler either. Usual setups include a webber instead.
Meridius	Posted - 2006.02.17 02:03:00 - [120] Originally by: Livia Tarquina 20 dmg per second means 600 damage in 30 seconds and 1200 in a minute. Spike damage is good in a ganking situation but DOT builds up in a gang on gang situation. That means **** all when you consider the Retri can't contribute towards webbing or scrambling in a gang. I would rather have another scrambler in my gang then a pathetic 20+DPS Retri. _ __ WE get EVERRYYWHHHEERREEEE!!1 - Imaran

Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.