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Please Fix Retribution so it can PvP

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Marcus Firehawk	Posted - 2006.02.15 12:55:00 - [31] Edited by: Marcus Firehawk on 15/02/2006 12:56:20 Personally I am of the opinion that it doesn't need to be changed. If your ship can't do what you want then change to a different ship or bring a buddy along. I know someone is going to point out that I am minmatar so what do I know If it does get changed I would say change it to a 5/2/4 layout making it similar to the Wolf and Enyo. If you change its utility High slot to a mid then it would still deal the same amount of damage and have a tank better than all the other AF's but then it could also tackle. I think that would unbalance it with the other AFs. If it wants the ability to really tackle then it needs to give up some of its tank.
Spartan III	Posted - 2006.02.15 16:03:00 - [32] VERY SORRY I SAID TACKLING I mean that since it has only 1 mid that must be used for AB that it can't hold its targets and thus cannot be used for solo PvP. I will change my original post so there will be less confusion And yes I was saying change its useless 5th high slot to a mid slot. IT IS THE ONLY AF WITH 1 MID SLOT!!! I havn't checked yet but it is probably the only COMBAT ship with only ONE mid slot. To solo PvP in a frig you need at least a AB/MWD and Scrambler. And yesanything above Low end T1 Cruisers will pwn a vengeance as it has HORRIBLE damage and is REALLY slow. Either the Vengeance needs to switch a mid to a low or the retri needs to change a high to a mid for the Amarrian race to get a good PvP AF that can do more than gank(retri). ******************** Join Public Channel "Christian Public Access" for great fellowship and fun OMFWTFYarrBQPwn3d!!!11eleventy-one ~kieron
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2006.02.15 16:06:00 - [33] Coercer only has one mid too. Yes, it makes solo PvP almost impossible. That doesn't show it's broken though, just that it doesn't do what you want it to do...
LWMaverick	Posted - 2006.02.15 17:12:00 - [34] 120 threads a month about this... Its a GANG ship, so no no and no, its ebil as it is. Stop making all ships the same. /Mav With great power, comes great responsibility.
Meridius	Posted - 2006.02.15 17:18:00 - [35] Originally by: LWMaverick 120 threads a month about this... Its a GANG ship, so no no and no, its ebil as it is. Stop making all ships the same. /Mav The Enyo, Wolf and Harpy work fine in gangs as well as solo. Thanks for coming out. _ __ WE get EVERRYYWHHHEERREEEE!!1 - Imaran
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.02.15 17:22:00 - [36] tbh all af need to be balanced to be more like the harpy, currently the best at what it was designed to do which is splat t1 frigs and cepters. but since they are tech 2 ships a perfect balance is not needed in the game imo, they got the best AF but their HACs are considered to be poor [bar the cerb since patch] so it kinda evens out. -------------------Sig----------------------- Decrease blaster CPU useage Decrease Hybrid cap useage Balance all weapon systems DO IT SOON
slip66	Posted - 2006.02.15 17:44:00 - [37] Originally by: LUKEC Originally by: Cetagee It does have 1 med, so why the hell should it not be able to tackle...?? You can fit a scrambler, can't you?? It does not make sense, but you can... Yeah and die to inty... Anyway, even if it gets 4/2/5 it needs 30more cpu... Still it would be sweet to have scrambler on, too. But then again i see caldari cry already :) no way they can say a darn thing. The harpy is prolly the best all round af with its 4 mids. You can also use 4 guns and a luncher on it :/ unlike the ret. Originally by: StOrM ViPeR Theres a skill called surgical strike in game I've learned that it actually stands for Band of Brothers
LWMaverick	Posted - 2006.02.15 18:20:00 - [38] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: LWMaverick 120 threads a month about this... Its a GANG ship, so no no and no, its ebil as it is. Stop making all ships the same. /Mav The Enyo, Wolf and Harpy work fine in gangs as well as solo. Thanks for coming out. Not as extreme as the retribution. Thanks for comming out?.. eh? With great power, comes great responsibility.
LUKEC	Posted - 2006.02.15 18:39:00 - [39] well unless it gets massive cpu boost, 4/2/5 layout won't really help... Oh and please underestimate my retri. I use no guns... i smack to death.
Meridius	Posted - 2006.02.15 18:55:00 - [40] Originally by: LWMaverick Originally by: Meridius Originally by: LWMaverick 120 threads a month about this... Its a GANG ship, so no no and no, its ebil as it is. Stop making all ships the same. /Mav The Enyo, Wolf and Harpy work fine in gangs as well as solo. Thanks for coming out. Not as extreme as the retribution. Thanks for comming out?.. eh? Uh the Harpy has 4 mids and can use it's best ammo at 20km. Far more usefull to a gang then a Retribution. A Harpy can do 150DPS at 20km with a rack of 150mm II's and 2 magstabs. At this point it will have 74cpu/21 pg free to fit it's 4 mids + high. The Retribution can do 196DPS at 11km with 3 sinks. To match the Harpy's range you have to use ultraviolet which gets you 147DPS at 19km of range. At this point you have 3 cpu and 3 pg free to fill your 2 lows, 1 mid and 1 highslot with This setup has a nice damage peak at 11km over the Harpy but that is useless you want to fly around with 4 empty slots and zero defense. You might as well use a Coercer (and i have) since it does more damage then a Retri in the same defenseless fashion...it's also a fraction the price. So lets try dual light beams, 163DPS at 9.8km. Complete crap compared to the Harpy. You'd have to use standard crystals to get 19km and you'll only be doing 108DPS. Yeah, extreme _ __ WE get EVERRYYWHHHEERREEEE!!1 - Imaran
Spartan III	Posted - 2006.02.15 20:05:00 - [41] The Retri is the ONLY AF in frigate sized ship(intys, T1, and T2 frigs) that has only 1 mid slot. Look at the Enyo, an amazing frigate with a great layout and bonuses to complement it. It has great damage, ok tank, and enough mids to stop its enemy from escaping. The retri on the other hand has a horrible layout. It has an unused high slot and only 1 mid slot. Now lets see what happens when the retri attacks a ship of equal base speed(like another AF). It cannot equip an AB unlike its target, but anyway it begins the fight and scrambles. The fight goes on, and lets say that the retri pilot is winning. The other pilot decides to try to get out of scramble range so that he can escape. He turns on his ab and then suddenly is out of range in under 10 seconds easily warping away and out of the fight because the retri was only going half his speed. The retri could always equip an AB instead of a scramble but of course then the target could warp at any time. From an RP perspective amarr piltos wanting to PvP would either have to fly vengeances or fly a retri and have a frigate tackle for the, WHILE THEY THEMSELVES ARE FLYING A FRIGATE!!1! This is unheard of. I do not want to fly another races AF so i am stuck using the vengeance with its crappy damage and slow speed. At least its the cheapest AF at under 10mill a pop, and yes, flying it will get you popped. Please also remember that AFs role is not gang fire support so anyone saying that the retri can be used for that is a noob. It cannot tackle in a gang for the obvious reason of only 1 mid. And it cannot solo PvP for my reasons stated above. So is it doomed to be the BEST NPC AF in the game? I sure hope not, please sign this petition to help get it fixed and move that "unused" high slot to a needed mid slot. And if it needs more CPU(which i don't think it does) than give it a lil extra CPU. ******************** Join Public Channel "Christian Public Access" for great fellowship and fun OMFWTFYarrBQPwn3d!!!11eleventy-one ~kieron
LWMaverick	Posted - 2006.02.15 20:33:00 - [42] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: LWMaverick Originally by: Meridius Originally by: LWMaverick 120 threads a month about this... Its a GANG ship, so no no and no, its ebil as it is. Stop making all ships the same. /Mav The Enyo, Wolf and Harpy work fine in gangs as well as solo. Thanks for coming out. Not as extreme as the retribution. Thanks for comming out?.. eh? Uh the Harpy has 4 mids and can use it's best ammo at 20km. Far more usefull to a gang then a Retribution. A Harpy can do 150DPS at 20km with a rack of 150mm II's and 2 magstabs. At this point it will have 74cpu/21 pg free to fit it's 4 mids + high. The Retribution can do 196DPS at 11km with 3 sinks. To match the Harpy's range you have to use ultraviolet which gets you 147DPS at 19km of range. At this point you have 3 cpu and 3 pg free to fill your 2 lows, 1 mid and 1 highslot with This setup has a nice damage peak at 11km over the Harpy but that is useless you want to fly around with 4 empty slots and zero defense. You might as well use a Coercer (and i have) since it does more damage then a Retri in the same defenseless fashion...it's also a fraction the price. So lets try dual light beams, 163DPS at 9.8km. Complete crap compared to the Harpy. You'd have to use standard crystals to get 19km and you'll only be doing 108DPS. Yeah, extreme Listen up smarty... Damage is not all now is it? Being able to nos, tank ebil and deal crazy damage at the same time is really useful, and the Retribution does all that really really good. And don't give me that "but harpy tanks better with a gisti Sb..." cause imagine a Retribution with faction reps/hardners/nos? /Mav With great power, comes great responsibility.
Miabio	Posted - 2006.02.15 21:42:00 - [43] It needs another mid slot. I really don't care about the arguments concerning sol and group pvp, tackling and other pointless diversions. What I see in the Retribution is a great ship that can't hold down a target. Solo or not, Scrams and AB/WMD are the first two mods you fit for PvP group or solo. Cases where you fit otherwise s an exception to your 'standard' outfit. With three mids, you fit Web, WMD, Scram, and so forth, The Retri needs a scond mid - its not going to make it overpowered. As for the vengence (for that matter all Khanid ships). . . moving a few mod slots is not going to fix it - it needs a total reworking. Its too bad since I love that siver shine!! Stay on topic, the retri needs a second mid.
Spartan III	Posted - 2006.02.16 01:47:00 - [44] Originally by: Miabio It needs another mid slot. I really don't care about the arguments concerning sol and group pvp, tackling and other pointless diversions. What I see in the Retribution is a great ship that can't hold down a target. Solo or not, Scrams and AB/WMD are the first two mods you fit for PvP group or solo. Cases where you fit otherwise s an exception to your 'standard' outfit. With three mids, you fit Web, WMD, Scram, and so forth, The Retri needs a scond mid - its not going to make it overpowered. As for the vengence (for that matter all Khanid ships). . . moving a few mod slots is not going to fix it - it needs a total reworking. Its too bad since I love that siver shine!! Stay on topic, the retri needs a second mid. Your completely right about the Retri and vengeance. ******************** Join Public Channel "Christian Public Access" for great fellowship and fun OMFWTFYarrBQPwn3d!!!11eleventy-one ~kieron
Lienzo	Posted - 2006.02.16 01:59:00 - [45] 3rd AF for everyone! holyporkchops! 4/2/4 Amarr AF w/ tracking bonus sounds sweet.
GigaIndy	Posted - 2006.02.16 03:56:00 - [46] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Kryptic1 Originally by: Spartan III The retribution can't tackle period. If the slots could just be changed from 5/1/5 to 4/2/5 than it could still have the tankability needed for missions so carebears woudn't whine, but it would actually be able to tackle and be able to do solo PvP or at least tackle in gangs. Have you noticed how every race's AFs (except caldari) include one that has few midslots but does more damage and has more tank, and one that has 3 midslots, but doesn't do as much damage or tank as much? Do you know that Amarr has another(!) AF called the Vengeance, which happens to have 3 midslots? Have you ever thought that maybe if you wanted to have a tackling AF, you could use the vengeance? Have you noticed that the Retribution is the only AF with 1 midslot? To make things worse it gets a useless highslot instead of getting a launcher slot like the Wolf, Enyo or Harpy. The Vengeance is a piece of ****, only a nub would say otherwise. ' fit a nos.
Meridius	Posted - 2006.02.16 04:09:00 - [47] Originally by: LWMaverick Listen up smarty... Damage is not all now is it? Being able to nos, tank ebil and deal crazy damage at the same time is really useful, and the Retribution does all that really really good. And don't give me that "but harpy tanks better with a gisti Sb..." cause imagine a Retribution with faction reps/hardners/nos? /Mav Being able to nos wow, with 1 whole small nos. Insane! Please stop pumping this forum with tripe and paste in your leet Retribution setup. You do have one don't you? Paste it so i can tear it. _ __ WE get EVERRYYWHHHEERREEEE!!1 - Imaran
Weirda	Posted - 2006.02.16 04:44:00 - [48] Edited by: Weirda on 16/02/2006 04:52:04 Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii To people suggesting the Vengeance... lol It is hands down the worst Af in the game, It does NOTHING better than anything else. I use it occasionaly as for solo pirating the Retri just isn't practicle. But tbh the only kills you will get are on badly setup ships or miners Alliaanna or enyos... or ishkurs... or hawks... or harpys... but maybe you haven't tried to kill them though (noticing miners on you list) @Retribution Weirda have said this over and over... if it had 2 mids, all other AS would be pointless. really. truly. __ Weirda Assault Ship deserve a 4th Bonus and More!
Sandler	Posted - 2006.02.16 04:48:00 - [49] /Signed. Being able to fit a webber would be kinda helpful in PVP.
Weirda	Posted - 2006.02.16 04:50:00 - [50] Originally by: Meridius Have you noticed that the Retribution is the only AF with 1 midslot? To make things worse it gets a useless highslot instead of getting a launcher slot like the Wolf, Enyo or Harpy. thank god for that extra 7 dps (roflcopter) Originally by: Meridius The Vengeance is a piece of **, only a nub would say otherwise. noob here - but Meridius know Weirda noob already but it is not a piece of **. could use it missing slot (4th mid plz) and a 4th bonus though. @OP: check weirda sig link - post some idea there... when AS get they 4th bonus and the 'weirdo' AS get their missing slot it might not be the issue it is now. __ Weirda Assault Ship deserve a 4th Bonus and More!
Kyguard	Posted - 2006.02.16 05:19:00 - [51] Originally by: LUKEC And die to any inty out there? Ok maybe ares & raptor cannot break your tank, but anything else will kill vengeance. QFT. Any interceptor will break a vengeance's tank. Amarr AFs simply lack in any AF aspect. -\|- Join LFC, become someone, become family.
Aeaus	Posted - 2006.02.16 05:24:00 - [52] Want to buy clue. Spartan, as I have noted on the other forums and my observations of you. The retribution isn't a versitile AF like other ones can be, it will constantly perform and excell at specific roles, any it can fill many roles but tackling is not one of them. Most people fly AFs in gangs, very rarely are they used for solo combat. The retribution is the punching power of any good frigite gang, it will tear mercilessly through targets, from interceptors to battleships. It is a very high damaging ship capable of taking massive ammounts of damage. Startbombing battleships are simply shrugged off. And I will say this as nicely as possible. Do not assume you can get a cookie cutter setup for an ship piloted by more skilled pilots and do good. The retribution is like a megathron of the assault frigites. It needs a good setup, good tactics, and a good pilot to be deadly, much more deadlier then most AFs. (Spare me the range and web arguements) Other AFs are more forgiving, the retribution is not. I do belive that the retribution is a gang ship, but I have seen relative success using it solo, many times my targets would be naive to warp out before the pod came sailing out of their ship. Other times with my quick dabble into empire piracy I would swap out my propulsion mods for a warp disruptor, but then again; please underestimate the ship, hope to see you on the field.
Xio2	Posted - 2006.02.16 05:51:00 - [53] haha..i see some of you comparing the Retributions mid's to the harpys. roflomgbbz..its caldari and it shield tanks. plz. -------------- now this is the way a sig should be Xio2
Shin Ra	Posted - 2006.02.16 05:58:00 - [54] I've had great success with a Vengreance as a tackler. A raven hunting angels isn't going to take you down, period. Slap a couple of nos' on and you never running out of cap either.
Hobbledehoy	Posted - 2006.02.16 06:24:00 - [55] Originally by: hylleX Signed lol at the nubs tellin ppl to use vengeance, try it yourself ffs its khanid need i say more Call me a noob if you want, but I don't think the vengeance is 'bad' it's just what the person that started this thread is looking for. It's more sturdy than a ceptor and has mid slots to fit a web + scramble + AB or EW. As for the tank issue, it has 3 low slots which is more than enough to set up a nice armor tank. All you're missing is the dammage dealing potential; if you want a good tank, you have to sacrifice DPS. Conclusion: it's a different style of ship for a different fighting style. Here's the 2 strategies: Retribution: out tank, out gun everything you see & hope that they don't run or that your buddy can keep them from running. Vengeance: more well rounded ship with some EW potential, mediocre DPS and Mediocre tank. <--- for an AF, good dps and tank compared to ceptors, cruisers, t1 frigs. my 2 cents, Hob PS: I think the vengeance is very comparable to the Ishkur, which I love.
Cosmo Raata	Posted - 2006.02.16 06:35:00 - [56] Signed-- Just dump both Amarr AF & start over pls.
Livia Tarquina	Posted - 2006.02.16 07:27:00 - [57] Reading some how some posters have one single style of playing that they force others to accept when others have had success with different ways of playing makes me a little sick to my stomach. The act of automatically slapping 2 nos's, a scrambler, a webber, and a couple of blasters for every ship, an industrial if they could and probably will whine for, smacks of cookie cutter syndrome. I joined eve to get away from that. Retribution fits the old traditional Amarr form of warfare which is big heavy brute force wins over subtlety. Debuffing is something that outsiders do which is why it makes sense that the Khanid designed ship is made for tackling. Most amarr ships from the looks of it have less midslots on the average than other races. Why not argue for more mids on ALL amarr ships.
munkehdotnet	Posted - 2006.02.16 07:54:00 - [58] I'm torn between saying add another mid/ not but look at the harpy with a gistii it can Tank & do as much damage as a retri with blasters(using blasters since you cant actually fit beams with a decenty setup on the retri). so like the harpy can tank web scram and have damage mod & pdu II in the lowslots & it has the utility slot for a nosf. the veng sucks i've sparred vs people in them that are older than me in the game and i just *****thier shields and armor in a retri. & to people who say you should pvp with corp mates etc. well there is times where i will be the only person online in my corp and i cant exactly get fred my inivisble corpmate to tackle can i?
Meridius	Posted - 2006.02.16 08:08:00 - [59] Originally by: Weirda noob here - but Meridius know Weirda noob already but it is not a piece of **. could use it missing slot (4th mid plz) and a 4th bonus though. @OP: check weirda sig link - post some idea there... when AS get they 4th bonus and the 'weirdo' AS get their missing slot it might not be the issue it is now. The Vengeance gets outdamaged by tech i frigates. I'm sorry, i just can't get past that as it is an Assault Frigate**. _ __ WE get EVERRYYWHHHEERREEEE!!1 - Imaran
Elaina Cosengo	Posted - 2006.02.16 09:33:00 - [60] Originally by: kessah im all for boosting ships specially amarr, but imho its not what the bution is about, cram as much dmg as u can on it and u wont need tackle gear. Its such a brutal ship far superior than all other t2 frigs in the dmg department in fairness. It will destroy harpy and enyo without problems, well ive never had probs lol thats a joke right kessah, haha give the Ret its extra mid slot aint nothing gonna save it v Harpy. hehe that made my day

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