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FFS CCP do something against suicide ganks in empire

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F'nog	Posted - 2006.03.01 23:12:00 - [151] Originally by: Nimie ccp doesn't play their game. I think all of the devs and their many accounts, I think some of them have even more than CYVOK, will disagree. Originally by: Bl4zer But, cmon, this is the Eve forums, we don't let facts get in the way of pointless speculation.
F'nog	Posted - 2006.03.01 23:35:00 - [152] And for those really, really, REALLY upset about losing their stuff when they get ganked, maybe this will help put things in perspective. Originally by: Bl4zer But, cmon, this is the Eve forums, we don't let facts get in the way of pointless speculation.
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2006.03.01 23:49:00 - [153] Originally by: Nimie ccp doesn't play their game. Oh but they do.
Xio2	Posted - 2006.03.01 23:55:00 - [154] im going to fly using containers lol. thats smart. -------------- now this is the way a sig should be Xio2
Asane	Posted - 2006.03.02 00:07:00 - [155] Well turnschuh has earned the Trollbait award of the week. Getting a thread to hold this long and not even talk in it
jokerb	Posted - 2006.03.02 00:24:00 - [156] Originally by: Ikvar Edited by: Ikvar on 01/03/2006 18:14:20 Originally by: Tobiaz People losing T2 BPO's to a empire suicide gank didn't deserve them in the first place. Couldn't have said it better myself. If you're moving a T2 BPO that takes up no cargo room in a ship that can be killed before CONCORD/Sentry intervention in highsec, you are an idiot. I'm a NOOB. I belong to a NOOB corporation. We transport even the 30000 isk BPO's with escorts in armed and armored vehicles. If a noob in a nooblet corp. knows better and takes appropriate precautions for the simplest of tranfers, what was the OP and other morons thinking as they lose high value cargo to pirates? You want safe areas? Go play tiddly winks, EVE is for adults.
Nimie	Posted - 2006.03.02 01:16:00 - [157] for adults, almost all of the insults have come from adults. not to mention many of you adults have reading problems and have continuouly spamed vague empty rhetoric even after it was point out for you. things like "this is a pvp game" is called empty rhetoric. let's make it so you can pod people while they're in stations. that should be ok since "nowhere in eve is safe" and "this is a pvp game". let's make it permadeath too since "eve is hardcore" and "eve is suppose to be brutal". Originally by: Nimie it only means pirates will change their hunting grounds from low sec to empire. given time, it means that both pirate's and carebear's home and working area will be in empire and low sec will be held by nooone. i truly feel that this is not ccp's intentthis is why i want a response. i can't understand how people can get so off tangent so i'll keep it in small simple and as few words as possible. 1)where is a pirate's work place, roughly? there's really only three types of answers for this a)empire>low sec, meaning empire should be more profitable than low sec b)empire<low sec, meaning empire should be less profitable than low sec c)empire=low sec, meaning empire should be as equally profitable as low sec at the current time, empire is the most profitable. if you are ok with how things are now, then you belive ccp wants a). otherwise, b) and c) means you belive ccp will change the current system.
Erotic Irony	Posted - 2006.03.02 01:36:00 - [158] It is a foregone conclusion that the majority of players on the forums are extremely defensive to the point of irrelevance; parroting the same tired risk v reward rhetoric and pirate v carebear distinctions as if they actually believe it. Lets not forget the false analogy crowd. Ignore them. As has been said, a covert ops frogate with a covert cloak is among the best answers. Take heart though. As the crime and punishment board illustrates, the victims will have the last laugh when the aggressor's security status plummets and the killers complain about the difficulty in regaining it.
Professor McFly	Posted - 2006.03.02 01:46:00 - [159] Originally by: Nimie 1)where is a pirate's work place, roughly? there's really only three types of answers for this a)empire>low sec, meaning empire should be more profitable than low sec b)empire<low sec, meaning empire should be less profitable than low sec c)empire=low sec, meaning empire should be as equally profitable as low sec at the current time, empire is the most profitable. if you are ok with how things are now, then you belive ccp wants a). otherwise, b) and c) means you belive ccp will change the current system. Where is a bank robber's most profitable place of work? In the middle of a rich bustling metropolis, or out in the lawless deserts where most of their prey has learned to pack heavy weapons themselves? Concord is not like the real world police, all they care about is punishing unlawful warfare. They aren't gonna stop someone in a noob corp picking up loot cans, just as they aren't gonna investigate your corp's assets theft for you and catch the bad guy. High sec may be more profitable for certain pirates, but that is a case of natural selection, NOT a game-breaking imbalance as you suggest. The tools for prevention are there. It's like saying cars should be taken off the road because 5% of people don't wear seat belts. __________________ Retard's handbook
Jhonen Senraedi	Posted - 2006.03.02 01:56:00 - [160] Having been a victim of a suicide ganker near Jita myself in the past..lost some faction gear...and bpc's i'd purchased...and yes I was hauling them in n unfitted Badger because ..a)it was there..and b)I thought I'd be relatively safe. I lost oh..80-100 mill...went back to get some of the gear in my Reaper..but guy's alt or mate had nabbed it. Ok..Now to the point...Ganking in High sec may be pretty low etc...BUT..It's part of the game...and it spices it up as it makes you realise that there could be danger anywhere.So..NO..Ganking in high sec should not be stopped... The things that should be applied though are.. 1/No Insurance payouts to those deshipped by Concord for whatever reason...new or old..all know the consequences of aggression in high sec..It's in the tutorial. 2/Possibly some form of criminal flag for any looters of said gear other than attacker..to prevent looting by alts(And definitely by npc corp types..as you can't even war dec them.) 3/When I got ganked the response time of Concord was a bit slow...but thats being fixed in the Blood patch...so no need to dwell on that. 4/Perhaps relate sec loss to system sec level...lower losses in low and mid sec compared to high sec..rather than a set loss per victim...that way there'd be more opportunity to kill in low-sec and mid sec...before having to work off status penalty or retreat from empire higher sec areas...thus more opportunities for the hardcore pirates and PvPer's in low-mid sec. Oh and to those who said fit a ship for speed...doesn't always work...recently lost a slasher with an arc-jet and an engine injector..doing 1150-1200m/s or more...when scanned..targetted..shot at twice..trying to get through a gate...so speed and small sig doesn't always work.. Bottom Line ..Keep high sec ganking as it makes the game more interesting but..try and make it a bit more logical..especially with regards to insurance payouts..or rather not paying them out.

mrg29	Posted - 2006.03.02 01:57:00 - [161] Originally by: Nimie for adults, almost all of the insults have come from adults. not to mention many of you adults have reading problems and have continuouly spamed vague empty rhetoric even after it was point out for you. things like "this is a pvp game" is called empty rhetoric. let's make it so you can pod people while they're in stations. that should be ok since "nowhere in eve is safe" and "this is a pvp game". let's make it permadeath too since "eve is hardcore" and "eve is suppose to be brutal". Originally by: Nimie it only means pirates will change their hunting grounds from low sec to empire. given time, it means that both pirate's and carebear's home and working area will be in empire and low sec will be held by nooone. i truly feel that this is not ccp's intentthis is why i want a response. i can't understand how people can get so off tangent so i'll keep it in small simple and as few words as possible. 1)where is a pirate's work place, roughly? there's really only three types of answers for this a)empire>low sec, meaning empire should be more profitable than low sec b)empire<low sec, meaning empire should be less profitable than low sec c)empire=low sec, meaning empire should be as equally profitable as low sec at the current time, empire is the most profitable. if you are ok with how things are now, then you belive ccp wants a). otherwise, b) and c) means you belive ccp will change the current system. i'm not really sure from reading most of your posts what point you are trying to make in this thread. u seem to be making wild assumptions about where it is more profitable to pirate and what the margins are without once trying to back up any of those statements. simple fact is piracy exists in high sec because players in high sec do not tend to take the same precautions that those who live in low sec do. in addition the number of targets not taking precautions in high sec available to said pirates, carrying high value cargoes, will significantly exceed those in low sec. pirates will hunt where they have targets they can attack. if said targets do not use the available game mechanics to make it more difficult for the pirates and make themselves viable targets by carrying a cargo of sufficient value to make it worthwhile for the attckers to sacrifice a ship then that is the players own problem. the game gives sufficient options to avoid this happening and ccp have recently added functionality to allow possible targets the option of taking "free" revenge not only on te attacker themselves but on whoever had looted the can. i agree wholly with the principle of forfeiting insurance payments if you are destroyed by concord for attacking a player in high sec, this however will not stop high sec piracy only make the margins different in terms of possible profit. -
Lisento Slaven	Posted - 2006.03.02 02:14:00 - [162] Originally by: turnschuh this is just plain stupid, you cannot transport stuff in empire worth more then 200mil since you just get blown up buy a lame suicide BS. make passive scanning an aggression. make cargo scanning an aggression. fix concord. this is not risk vs reward, empire is not save anymore and CCP is just ignoring it. Passive scanning - No. Why should you get in trouble for scanning someone? Cargo scanning - No. Why should you get in trouble for scanning someone? Fix concord. - In what way do you think its broken? Eve is still "risk vs reward" and you took a risk by moving stuff in a very crappy ship and well, your risk left you in the hole because someone else, took a GREATER RISK to put you there. Empire was never safe and never will be as long as people are allowed to activate weapons in Empire. I say activate weapons because you don't have to lock on to someone in order to use a smartbomb. I respond to the original post because everyone else has gone off on a tangent and things are no longer productive (my opinion seperate of the topic).
Agent Kenshin	Posted - 2006.03.02 02:26:00 - [163] Originally by: Nimie Edited by: Nimie on 01/03/2006 22:53:59 Originally by: Turas Kain Originally by: Nimie Edited by: Nimie on 01/03/2006 22:17:10 Originally by: Turas Kain How's about we just say - CCP made the game. CCP knows this has been happening for a long time. CCP have not changed it. Seems to me they have already answered. that answer has already been used and that old answer is unsatisfactory. a more recent response is desired. A more recent response? If CCP decide it is not as intended I think we'll notice - because they'll change it. It really is that simple However I digress, its been a while since I spoke to my wall. ccp doesn't play their game. they rely on their customers. that is also why we have a test server. as the voice of their customers can change, so does the order and plans they have for the game as well as ccp's actual voice. Oh you really think they dont play their game??? Theyve stated numerious times they do play. Originally by: MAXSuicide only carebears call pvpers 'greifers' ehehehh....
w0rmy	Posted - 2006.03.02 02:32:00 - [164] Originally by: Nimie at the current time, empire is the most profitable. Youre joking right? the most profitable crime is the crime that takes place, in the places with the most money. I never would have guessed that Of course people whine, its cause your sig sucks
Peregrine	Posted - 2006.03.02 02:36:00 - [165] You put a target on your nose, I am sure as hell going to punch you in it. You dont want to be ganked in empire? Then Dont fly 10bill in BPO around afk in a 200k hauler. It realy isnt rocket science.
Lienzo	Posted - 2006.03.02 02:43:00 - [166] Restriction of insurance won't really make much difference. The 30-80% is recovery that would be surrendered would still pale in comparison to the benefit which prompts the attacker to go for the big goal. It would just be a complicated-to-implement system that would result in more lag in post-kill scenarios. All you need is secure cans/shrink wrap. Those give you more cargo anyhow. Finis. Nobody thinks about all the hard, boring work the poor peglegger has to do out in 0.0 space, and the assets needed to do it, just to be able to go back to his job in empire. If we must be tied to empire, and to npcs no less, then make some means of restoring sec in empire or losec. Npcs should all give equal status gain every 15minutes. It sucks being knocked out of the action for days or weeks at a time.
Jhonen Senraedi	Posted - 2006.03.02 02:54:00 - [167] Maybe Implementing Insurance Nullification would be harder work..but a lot of people here seem to think it's a decent compromise. As far as margins changing and ganking still going on..well that's fair enough...but a higher margin would a)reduce the frequency of such attacks..and b)protect the newer players....if that margin was pushed up to 200 mill to make aprofit instead of 100.... As for the older players hauling BPO's..and T2 ones at that....well....shame on you..you should know better!
Gamer4liff	Posted - 2006.03.02 02:56:00 - [168] Do not move expensive stuff in a badger 2, it's that simple. The main issue however is using alts for suicide kills and dodgeing the sec hit on the main, but I don't think there is really anything CCP can do about it.
Nimie	Posted - 2006.03.02 02:57:00 - [169] Originally by: w0rmy Originally by: Nimie at the current time, empire is the most profitable. Youre joking right? the most profitable crime is the crime that takes place, in the places with the most money. I never would have guessed that it's time to go outside. really. Originally by: Peregrine You put a target on your nose, I am sure as hell going to punch you in it. You dont want to be ganked in empire? Then Dont fly 10bill in BPO around afk in a 200k hauler. It realy isnt rocket science. noone has said 10b in a long time though. it's sweet 100m. Originally by: Lienzo Restriction of insurance won't really make much difference. The 30-80% is recovery that would be surrendered would still pale in comparison to the benefit which prompts the attacker to go for the big goal. It would just be a complicated-to-implement system that would result in more lag in post-kill scenarios. All you need is secure cans/shrink wrap. Those give you more cargo anyhow. Finis. Nobody thinks about all the hard, boring work the poor peglegger has to do out in 0.0 space, and the assets needed to do it, just to be able to go back to his job in empire. If we must be tied to empire, and to npcs no less, then make some means of restoring sec in empire or losec. Npcs should all give equal status gain every 15minutes. It sucks being knocked out of the action for days or weeks at a time. but it protects the minigoals. it shouldn't be hard to add either. actually, it should be very easy to add. last time i asked, someone ratting in 0.0 said he did 2sec a day, so it shouldn't be that bad. that's good for 10 kills.
Lienzo	Posted - 2006.03.02 02:58:00 - [170] Originally by: Gamer4liff Do not move expensive stuff in a badger 2, it's that simple. The main issue however is using alts for suicide kills and dodgeing the sec hit on the main, but I don't think there is really anything CCP can do about it. Yep. They get banned all the time as far as I understand it. Obviously, we don't get to hear from those that are banned.

w0rmy	Posted - 2006.03.02 03:36:00 - [171] Originally by: Nimie it's time to go outside. really. Right after you get a clue. Really. Of course people whine, its cause your sig sucks
Rocco Siffredi	Posted - 2006.03.02 03:39:00 - [172] Its clear there are a lot of strong views here. I think to make it so any non consentual combat in hi sec impossible (ie you can only blow a ship up in 0.5+ if u at war or have kill rights) is just damn stupid and should never happen in eve. This game is rated number one on mmorpg.com and the freedom like this is one of the reasons. Dont turn it into another bland MMO. However its ridiculously easy to suicide gank. You dont really need that much skill to do it, just a few friends, some spare ships and a bit of patience. The solution is to make it harder. Perhaps a much bigger security penalty. A few failed attempts in an evening and no more going to hi sec for you. Also definitely no payout on insurance. If its risk vs reward, then the risk should be a lot more. How about concord fining you? Perhaps the fine increases if you break the "law" many times in the same system. How about fining the players corp? What about the fine going to the ganked player in "damages"? ATM there is more risk to the hauler than to the pirate, and the balance of risk should be more towards the pirate.
jokerb	Posted - 2006.03.02 03:43:00 - [173] Edited by: jokerb on 02/03/2006 03:44:04 Originally by: Nimie for adults, almost all of the insults have come from adults. not to mention many of you adults have reading problems and have continuouly spamed vague empty rhetoric even after it was point out for you. things like "this is a pvp game" is called empty rhetoric. let's make it so you can pod people while they're in stations. that should be ok since "nowhere in eve is safe" and "this is a pvp game". let's make it permadeath too since "eve is hardcore" and "eve is suppose to be brutal". Originally by: Nimie it only means pirates will change their hunting grounds from low sec to empire. given time, it means that both pirate's and carebear's home and working area will be in empire and low sec will be held by nooone. i truly feel that this is not ccp's intentthis is why i want a response. i can't understand how people can get so off tangent so i'll keep it in small simple and as few words as possible. 1)where is a pirate's work place, roughly? there's really only three types of answers for this a)empire>low sec, meaning empire should be more profitable than low sec b)empire<low sec, meaning empire should be less profitable than low sec c)empire=low sec, meaning empire should be as equally profitable as low sec at the current time, empire is the most profitable. if you are ok with how things are now, then you belive ccp wants a). otherwise, b) and c) means you belive ccp will change the current system. Now speaking of rhetoric nice Strawman... The rules are in this case extremely vague and/or non-existent. In the absence of laws or governing bodies you should understand that you are responsible for your own safety at all times. Why is it necessary to affect a change for a minority opinion (if this thread is any indication 20 to 1 against your opinion Nimie). Now as far as my perceived insults, I do apologize as they detracted from my point which was I'm a nublet I know better, so should someone with a techII BPO. Whether the rules should be changed in the future is completely irrelavent, the rules as they stand today are what you and the OP need to think of as you undock. cheers (editted bc i'm a formatting moron, heehee)
Berrik Radhok	Posted - 2006.03.02 04:00:00 - [174] In my opinion, the problem with high sec ganking is not so much that you can do it, but that the ganker's friend in a newbie corp can fly his indie in and steal your stuff and there's nothing you can do about it.
Avon	Posted - 2006.03.02 09:29:00 - [175] Originally by: Berrik Radhok , but that the ganker's friend in a newbie corp can fly his indie in and steal your stuff and there's nothing you can do about it. Huh? He brought a friend, and so teamwork > solo? Not exactly a newsflash. How about you bring a friend to get your stuff back? As to the insurance payout discussion, I will add this: If insurance is removed from ships killed by Concord, expect a very long thread for agent runners. We have seen threads in the past asking for friendly fire within gangs to be allowed, and it must be assumed that this is because agent runners are losing ships to Concord whilst running missions together. If insurance is removed from Concord kills (and I really don't care either way - I'm not sure it will make a substantial difference though) it should be in conjuntion with the introduction of the requested gang changes. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Usis Cat	Posted - 2006.03.02 10:09:00 - [176] I'm new to the game and I love how the system works, but to be honest I can not understand why CONCORD doesnÆt try to pickup the rests of the attacked ship, itÆs not realistic at all. IÆm not saying that CONCORD must do it always, but may be CCP can create a system based on the security level, something like space 1.0 -> 70%, 0.9 -> 60% à 0.4 can be 0% just like now. Just an idea
Avon	Posted - 2006.03.02 10:15:00 - [177] Originally by: Usis Cat I'm new to the game and I love how the system works, but to be honest I can not understand why CONCORD doesn’t try to pickup the rests of the attacked ship, it’s not realistic at all. I’m not saying that CONCORD must do it always, but may be CCP can create a system based on the security level, something like space 1.0 -> 70%, 0.9 -> 60% … 0.4 can be 0% just like now. Just an idea Why would they? They are there to stop the Empires blowing each-other to bits, not to collect trash. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Usis Cat	Posted - 2006.03.02 10:23:00 - [178] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Usis Cat I'm new to the game and I love how the system works, but to be honest I can not understand why CONCORD doesnÆt try to pickup the rests of the attacked ship, itÆs not realistic at all. IÆm not saying that CONCORD must do it always, but may be CCP can create a system based on the security level, something like space 1.0 -> 70%, 0.9 -> 60% à 0.4 can be 0% just like now. Just an idea Why would they? They are there to stop the Empires blowing each-other to bits, not to collect trash. Well, they are doing more things than that; they destroy the ships who start an aggression so collect (not always) the jettison things looks like quite reasonable. Anyway IÆm not really upset about that, I donÆt have much money or valuable things atm
RawCode	Posted - 2006.03.02 19:01:00 - [179] All I know is, if a saw an indy with 200M of cargo in it, I would suicide gank it. And I am not even a pirate. There is plenty of non-pirates that would happily gank someone in empire if it ment they could get 200M out of it.
MachZERO	Posted - 2006.03.02 19:12:00 - [180] Originally by: turnschuh this is just plain stupid, you cannot transport stuff in empire worth more then 200mil since you just get blown up buy a lame suicide BS. make passive scanning an aggression. make cargo scanning an aggression. fix concord. this is not risk vs reward, empire is not save anymore and CCP is just ignoring it. You are not completely acurate... I've traveled from jita to rens to amarr then back to my home system with over 8 billion isk worth of fun in the back of my mastodon. You just have to know WHEN to do it and WHO to look out for. Beyond that, you are minmatar get a mastodon and fit invul fields and shield boosters to it. Problem pretty much solved for 98% of the suicide BS's in eve. For everything else, use a freighter. It's not an issue of it being unfair. It's a matter of you not having the right tools for the job.



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