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FFS CCP do something against suicide ganks in empire

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turnschuh	Posted - 2006.03.01 14:18:00 - [1] this is just plain stupid, you cannot transport stuff in empire worth more then 200mil since you just get blown up buy a lame suicide BS. make passive scanning an aggression. make cargo scanning an aggression. fix concord. this is not risk vs reward, empire is not save anymore and CCP is just ignoring it.
Sixtyniner	Posted - 2006.03.01 14:19:00 - [2] Empire is not suppose to be safe; only safer. If ill; sickbay. If wounded; Corpsman. If dead; graves registration. If losing his mind, however, no standard solution exists.
Nikolai Nuvolari	Posted - 2006.03.01 14:19:00 - [3] They already gave you killrights, you expect MORE??? -------------------------------------[04:04:04] Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk [04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw [07:38:53] Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108! Stop whining about my signature - Wrangler \o/ ~kieron [\"] -Capsicum <3 -eris you wanted colours now you have them :) -eris..again Donuts and cAKe anyone? Jacques' Nikolai can post twice as fast as me, and i'm uber -zhuge liang Uhm, I'm new to this, does this work? clickety Oveur
Xeaon	Posted - 2006.03.01 14:20:00 - [4] Get a BS escort.
The Enslaver	Posted - 2006.03.01 14:21:00 - [5] Originally by: Sixtyniner Empire is not suppose to be safe; only safer. Says it all. -------- Shinra Director
turnschuh	Posted - 2006.03.01 14:21:00 - [6] Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari They already gave you killrights, you expect MORE??? killrights dont protect me from being ganked. killrights dont bring me my stuff back. killrights are pointless in this matter.
SengH	Posted - 2006.03.01 14:21:00 - [7] or you could just create a courier mission for yourself and package it for free and make it immune to scanning...
Trooper B99	Posted - 2006.03.01 14:23:00 - [8] Edited by: Trooper B99 on 01/03/2006 14:24:04 If you're transporting goods worth afew hundred million isk, the investment in a tech II industrial seems prudent rather than complaining your paper thin 400k tech I industrial was turned to debris where ever it happened. The tools to survive are out there, whether or not you choose to use them is up to you. Wirykomi Team Racer - COLOSSUS Championships Year 106
hired goon	Posted - 2006.03.01 14:25:00 - [9] Owned. -omg-
Uther Doull	Posted - 2006.03.01 14:29:00 - [10] Edited by: Uther Doull on 01/03/2006 14:29:13 snip Let's not.- Laqum
Jernau Gurgeh	Posted - 2006.03.01 14:29:00 - [11] Edited by: Jernau Gurgeh on 01/03/2006 14:30:18 Just because you have problems transporting stuff through Empire, it doesn't automatically follow that it's the game that has a flaw. There are 10 sorts of people in the world - those who understand binary, and those who do not.
Malachon Draco	Posted - 2006.03.01 14:32:00 - [12] Most of us live in what I would call 'safe countries'. Yet when I see an ATM being resupplied with money, its done by an armored car. Why? Why won't money transporting companies just use a Smart or a Daihatsu or whatever? It's safe, isn't it? There are limits to safety. Everywhere. EvE does no more than mimic real life here :D
Sendraks	Posted - 2006.03.01 14:34:00 - [13] Originally by: turnschuh this is not risk vs reward, empire is not save anymore and CCP is just ignoring it. Who said it was safe and who says your risk has to be minimal? The way I see it, the ones taking the risks are pirates in suicide bombers and for their risks they get a nice reward. Heck for transporting stuff in Empire even I use instas when I can. Better safe than sorry.
Shamis Orzoz	Posted - 2006.03.01 14:34:00 - [14] Don't put 200 mil in an indy? Or better yet, don't go afk in a 200 mil indy?
aeti	Posted - 2006.03.01 14:35:00 - [15] use a t2 indy fit plates use secure cans use a freighter?
Jaketh Ivanes	Posted - 2006.03.01 14:37:00 - [16] Originally by: Uther Doull Edited by: Uther Doull on 01/03/2006 14:29:13 supossedly your mom already gave you a great 'greif prevention tool' it's called a brain... Thats so sexict (spelling?), what about his dad.. didn't he contribute to the brain?? On the topic, compared to RL, there is nothing preventing me form killing you on the streets. The cops can only react to my actions, not predict them. If you keep getting blown away, then take another route, use a cloak or nanofibers (mighty good for speedy warps).
Revara	Posted - 2006.03.01 14:38:00 - [17] Originally by: hired goon Owned. by far the funniest truest and most deserved post i have ever read - gonna go in my sig Originally by: turnschuh FFS CCP do something against suicide ganks in empire,you cannot transport stuff in empire worth more then 200mil you just get blown up buy a lame suicide BS [quote=hi
Gabrielle Black	Posted - 2006.03.01 14:39:00 - [18] Originally by: patch notes Police response/pursuit have significantly improved, primarily the timer controlling CONCORD reactions to a crime now matches the agression/criminal flag timer displayed in the UI. Military faction police have reviewed their manuals, and updated their KoS lists. If you have a faction standing of -5 or worse, they will now attack you. Frankly, I don't mind suicide ganking in empire, but if they're managing it by exploiting this second issue, I'd petition it. Either way, put your stuff in a can or something. If they risk killing you assuming that whatever is in the can is worth their BS, that's their choice. I happen to carry an empty can around occasionally too. :)
Alpha Centauri	Posted - 2006.03.01 14:40:00 - [19] I don't get it, what exactly does a suicide ganker get from it? If they destroy their own ship, who gets the loot? Sounds like a cheap laugh to me, maybe a bad day, or maybe they hate you or your corp. Somebody clarify the benefits of suicide ganking.
turnschuh	Posted - 2006.03.01 14:40:00 - [20] seams you all need to loose 10bil t2 BPOs first before you get a clue how stupid this "empire security" is at the moment.
Tobiaz	Posted - 2006.03.01 14:42:00 - [21] Originally by: turnschuh this is not risk vs reward, empire is not save anymore and CCP is just ignoring it. Empire never was safe and it was you who did the ignoring part. Spacerats hibernating
Malachon Draco	Posted - 2006.03.01 14:42:00 - [22] Originally by: Alpha Centauri I don't get it, what exactly does a suicide ganker get from it? If they destroy their own ship, who gets the loot? Sounds like a cheap laugh to me, maybe a bad day, or maybe they hate you or your corp. Somebody clarify the benefits of suicide ganking. Bandit nr 1. Blows you to pieces. Bandit nr 2. waits until you've been blown to pieces and picks up the loot while bandit nr.1 gets blown to pieces by Concord. Bandit 2 has the loot and is free to run off, and shares with bandit 1.
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2006.03.01 14:43:00 - [23] If you got anything worth more put it in a freighter, those things don't drop diddley...iddley! Remind me about The Maze. I'm Danton Marcellus and I approve of this message.
Gray Carmicheal	Posted - 2006.03.01 14:44:00 - [24] Originally by: turnschuh seams you all need to loose 10bil t2 BPOs first before you get a clue how stupid this "empire security" is at the moment. Seems you need to get a clue at that fact that no place in Eve is a "Noobie" Zone. Infact, most days, I see that the "Newbie" Systems are the ones with the most shipkills. My sig was CONCORDOKKENED. I blame Wrangler H4x.
Tobiaz	Posted - 2006.03.01 14:44:00 - [25] Originally by: turnschuh seams you all need to loose 10bil t2 BPOs first before you get a clue how stupid this "empire security" is at the moment. There are several ways to make it close to impossible for suicide squads to gank you in empire. People losing T2 BPO's to a empire suicide gank didn't deserve them in the first place. Stop whining Spacerats hibernating
Minsc	Posted - 2006.03.01 14:53:00 - [26] Originally by: turnschuh seams you all need to loose 10bil t2 BPOs first before you get a clue how stupid this "empire security" is at the moment. If you lost 10 Billion isk worth of t2 bpo's while flying through empire UNESCORTED, that is entirely Your fault
Samor Madur	Posted - 2006.03.01 14:54:00 - [27] Originally by: SengH or you could just create a courier mission for yourself and package it for free and make it immune to scanning... I don't get this... how come you get immune to scanning in a courier mission?
Johncrab	Posted - 2006.03.01 14:58:00 - [28] Edited by: Johncrab on 01/03/2006 14:58:15 Originally by: Samor Madur Originally by: SengH or you could just create a courier mission for yourself and package it for free and make it immune to scanning... I don't get this... how come you get immune to scanning in a courier mission? ok, i get. making a pakage. sorry for the question edit: damn alts
inSpirAcy	Posted - 2006.03.01 14:59:00 - [29] Come on, a Transport ship (that's like 20 mil + 25 mil skill) with decent fittings is immune to most empire suicide attacks; unless there's a small squadron of BS willing to SB right next to you, your cargo's safe. I think it's quite neat that people have a chance at suicide attacks; and more credit to them if they make money out of it. If you're carrying anything of significant value (200 mil is significant), put it in a freighter. No amount of suicide ganking will do more than scratch the paintwork of one of those. And it's like 1 bil, even my sorry wallet can stretch to that.
SengH	Posted - 2006.03.01 14:59:00 - [30] its a different system all the stuff is shrink wrapped into one container so you can complete the mission to ensure that isnt tampered with. Its not the same as secure containers so im guessing the cargo scanning module has problems parsing it.
Daikatana00	Posted - 2006.03.01 15:00:00 - [31] Edited by: Daikatana00 on 01/03/2006 15:00:41 How did I know spacerats was going to show up in this topic when I read the title? Off-subject: Oh no! Spacerats is going down!? What will happen to the carebears like me who mine AFK in .6sec systems? Though I never ran into you, I could almost guarantee you wouldnt get a ransom (unless you want to hold me in scramble for 3-4 minutes until I come back) or even decent modules from me...civilian shields and basic cargo expaders all the way!! My miner IIs might be worth something though. Back on Subject: Empire space is not supposed to be, and will never become, perfect 100% security. It is intended to stop the majority of griefing by making sure you WILL lose your ship if you attack someone. Empire is an effective deterrant, not an indestructable shield to hide behind. In conclusion: If you can't afford to lose it, don't buy it, don't haul it, and definately don't undock it.
Gray Carmicheal	Posted - 2006.03.01 15:00:00 - [32] Originally by: SengH its a different system all the stuff is shrink wrapped into one container so you can complete the mission to ensure that isnt tampered with. Its not the same as secure containers so im guessing the cargo scanning module has problems parsing it. Damn that bubblewrap! My sig was CONCORDOKKENED. I blame Wrangler H4x.
Alliaanna Dalaii	Posted - 2006.03.01 15:12:00 - [33] I got empire ganked the other day and lost the contents of my wallet. BOO HOO. This is a game ffs, who really cares. If you lost it you lost it to your own bad planning and stupidity. I dont care what anyone says about 1.0 systems should be safe..... NO WHERE in eve is safe unless docked in a station If you undock you are in a PvP game simple as that really. Alliaanna Official Follower of =-= Royal Hiigaran Navy =-=
BoinKlasik	Posted - 2006.03.01 15:13:00 - [34] For those of you saying get an escort, if they passive scan you and nobody is the wiser, your escort wouldnt know anything itll the first volly was in the air...and by then you are basically dead in an indy. that being said...transport ships 4tw especially when dealing with that kind of crap (bpo's take up 0 volume anyway dont they O.o) Empire gankings have been in the game since the beginning...i am aware of that. But they seem to be a lot more popular these days than they used to be which is why there will be more whine threads in the future. I guess its people making a living out of it vs just doing it to **** people off or something. doh, I broke my edited sig :/ cries this signature was lacking pink, I'll provide it for you. There. Looks better doesn't it? -Eris Fixed it for you. Oh, btw, yarr! ~kieron Didn't I tell you? The damsel moved in with me, we're having a great time. - Wrangler The damsel may not be distressed any more, but how many times does the informant have to be silenced before he gets the message? - Cortes
David Sinclair	Posted - 2006.03.01 15:40:00 - [35] As I say every time this topic comes up: The problem is not the suicide-ganking, but that Concord let's someone loot the corpse right under their noses. Someone mentioned an armored car. Well, what if someone comes up with an RPG, blows up the armored car. Police, drawn to the noise, gun him down and hang about the area, presumably doing paperwork or collecting evidence or eating donuts or something. Someone else comes along and scoops up all the money. Do you honestly think the police would just let some supposedly random passerby loot the truck? Concord should not allow theft to occur under their noses. I don't think theft should "summon" concord, like when you attack another ship, but if Concord is already on site, they should not allow theft.
Professor McFly	Posted - 2006.03.01 15:41:00 - [36] Quote: Empire never was safe and it was you who did the ignoring part. QFT You could invest in a dedicated Transport ship, y'know those heavily armoured, large capacity ships DESIGNED to get through hell and back with your delivery safely. I thought people had stopped flying afk in cardboard Iterons full of Zydrine by now. I have the utmost respect for people willing to lose BSes in empire, as long as they're not doing it with alts they are paying the penalties associated with their profession. And I have the utmost jealousy to those who gained valuable T2 BPOs from doing it By the way, you know you can transport BPOs in a frigate right? Covert Ops is ideal __________________ Retard's handbook
Khalii	Posted - 2006.03.01 15:42:00 - [37] Hmm... I wonder if the OP's got the message yet?
BloodSpoon	Posted - 2006.03.01 15:46:00 - [38] Originally by: Khalii Hmm... I wonder if the OP's got the message yet? not even close Offensive content - Laqum even more offensive content removed - Sherkaner Yet again offensive content - Laqum how was that offensive?
jbob2000	Posted - 2006.03.01 15:50:00 - [39] wow, tool
Asane	Posted - 2006.03.01 15:51:00 - [40] I'm sorry.. But I have to.. Seriously, I'm sorry... CRY MORE NOOB!!! Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 kbs, ty - Cortes -- The image IS 400 x 120 and 64kbs
Nimie	Posted - 2006.03.01 15:54:00 - [41] it's more like a miscalculation. it it is allowed that pirates make more money in empire than low sec, than it means both pirates and carebears will eventually live in empire. what in the world is low sec suppose to be used for than? a bunch of pirates doing their work in front of hundreds of miners, carebears and police and that is suppose to make sense?
Sixtyniner	Posted - 2006.03.01 15:57:00 - [42] Originally by: Nimie it's more like a miscalculation. it it is allowed that pirates make more money in empire than low sec, than it means both pirates and carebears will eventually live in empire. what in the world is low sec suppose to be used for than? a bunch of pirates doing their work in front of hundreds of miners, carebears and police and that is suppose to make sense? You still need to ores from lowsec, wich means people in lowsec, wich then leads to pirating in lowsec. Plus, not everyone will pirate in highsec anyways. If ill; sickbay. If wounded; Corpsman. If dead; graves registration. If losing his mind, however, no standard solution exists.
Haks'he Lirky	Posted - 2006.03.01 15:59:00 - [43] Edited by: Haks''he Lirky on 01/03/2006 16:01:11 Originally by: BoinKlasik Empire gankings have been in the game since the beginning...i am aware of that. But they seem to be a lot more popular these days than they used to be which is why there will be more whine threads in the future. I guess its people making a living out of it vs just doing it to **** people off or something. When the kestrel was no longer able to take down indies in one volley it slowed down, however today people are hauling much more iskies than they should be doing in a indie, this means that it can be profitable to loose a raven and it's fit expecially since it's not that expensive to loose T1 fitting and the insurance covers most of the ship loss. If CCP were to balance this out somehow they should at the most stop paying insurance to ships that are concorded, even that might be uncalled for.
robacz	Posted - 2006.03.01 16:08:00 - [44] Edited by: robacz on 01/03/2006 16:12:03 Originally by: turnschuh this is just plain stupid, you cannot transport stuff in empire worth more then 200mil since you just get blown up buy a lame suicide BS. make passive scanning an aggression. make cargo scanning an aggression. fix concord. this is not risk vs reward, empire is not save anymore and CCP is just ignoring it. Imho its ok that someone can kill you if he is willing to lose his ship, but it is not ok that Concord watch how someone steals cargo from killed ship - Concord should collect it and send to legal owner. Its like policeman witnessed a murder, arrested murderer and let his friend to steal victim's car. Makes no sense. I also agree that scanning should be an act of aggression though. Actually I thought it used to be. ___________ LG Slave Set for Sale :: 549M :: 33.83% armor hp bonus
Avon	Posted - 2006.03.01 16:11:00 - [45] Originally by: robacz Imho its ok that someone can kill you if he are willing to lose his ship, but it is not ok that Concord watch how someone steals cargo from killed ship - Concord should collect it and send to legal owner. Its like policeman witnessed a murder, arrested murderer and let his friend to steal victim's car. Makes no sense. I also agree that scanning should be an act of aggression though. Actually I thought it used to be. Not needed. The guy who picks up your stuff is flagged to your corp - your escorts can blow him up. Oh, wait, you didn't bring an escort? Oh dear. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Nimie	Posted - 2006.03.01 16:11:00 - [46] Originally by: Sixtyniner Originally by: Nimie it's more like a miscalculation. it it is allowed that pirates make more money in empire than low sec, than it means both pirates and carebears will eventually live in empire. what in the world is low sec suppose to be used for than? a bunch of pirates doing their work in front of hundreds of miners, carebears and police and that is suppose to make sense? You still need to ores from lowsec, wich means people in lowsec, wich then leads to pirating in lowsec. Plus, not everyone will pirate in highsec anyways. this has always been true, but with pirates now becoming more and more aware that empire ganking is much more profitable, more and more pirates will leave low sec and move to empire. when this information is widespread, the majority of pirates will be in empire. there's nothing wrong with making it so nowhere in eve is safe, but the current rules puts too much in favor of pirates.
Avon	Posted - 2006.03.01 16:12:00 - [47] Originally by: Nimie this has always been true, but with pirates now becoming more and more aware that empire ganking is much more profitable, more and more pirates will leave low sec and move to empire. when this information is widespread, the majority of pirates will be in empire. there's nothing wrong with making it so nowhere in eve is safe, but the current rules puts too much in favor of pirates. Empire can only be too profitable for pirates if Empire is too profitable for carebears (grr, said it). The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.03.01 16:13:00 - [48] a lot of the point in the escort is to go "hang on a second, maybe those 5 caracals around the gate aren't having a teaparty - might be best not to jump the hauler in right now" sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:\|. - Teblin
Grash Freedom	Posted - 2006.03.01 16:15:00 - [49] What? Thats why this game rules!! You are on fire every minute, Anyway ganking in empire is not an exploit, it's part of the game, somebody in RL can put a bullet in your head( extreme expample) and then he will go behind bars. i am an industrialist and move in my hauler all the time, i wanted to play fearless i would have bought a single player game, not eve
robacz	Posted - 2006.03.01 16:15:00 - [50] Originally by: Avon Not needed. The guy who picks up your stuff is flagged to your corp - your escorts can blow him up. Oh, wait, you didn't bring an escort? Oh dear. That makes sense for low security space, not for highsec. ___________ LG Slave Set for Sale :: 549M :: 33.83% armor hp bonus
bumcheekcity	Posted - 2006.03.01 16:15:00 - [51] Want to move stuff round safely? Use something with a lot of HP? YOu lose a bil worth of stuff ythat you're AFK flying round in an unprotected badger? Good. Makes me amused, and it'll teach you to protect your stuff. -- bumcheekcity
Asane	Posted - 2006.03.01 16:20:00 - [52] On a more serious note - if you carry something worth more than what a pirate can lose, there won't be any safe place. And if cargo scanning was made an aggro action - noone will use it, so what use will it be for having it in-game? Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 kbs, ty - Cortes -- The image IS 400 x 120 and 64kbs
Roshan longshot	Posted - 2006.03.01 16:22:00 - [53] OP you needed a transport, those things have real high resistance to all. One multi resistance (faction) one good 800mm armor plate. And some compensation skills. I never seen a 85% resistance before I fitted my transport out. But I can out-last most gank attempts in 1.0 to 0.5 space. Industrials are nothing but belt ore collectors now. Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box. We are not ebil forum police, for one thing I don't have a hat :( - Cortes
Avon	Posted - 2006.03.01 16:25:00 - [54] Originally by: robacz Originally by: Avon Not needed. The guy who picks up your stuff is flagged to your corp - your escorts can blow him up. Oh, wait, you didn't bring an escort? Oh dear. That makes sense for low security space, not for highsec. I think this thread proves otherwise, don't you? The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Swethren	Posted - 2006.03.01 16:25:00 - [55] Heh, some ppl will never learn. ------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerick Ludhowe	Posted - 2006.03.01 16:32:00 - [56] Originally by: turnschuh seams you all need to loose 10bil t2 BPOs first before you get a clue how stupid this "empire security" is at the moment. Why would you ever transport 10bil worth of items in a t1 indy? You do know that this game requires you to use your brain from time to time, right?
Wild Rho	Posted - 2006.03.01 16:36:00 - [57] You wouldn't walk around with a billion pounds/(currency of choice) in a thin paper bag in real life would you? No matter how safe a street was. Suicide piracy has been around for ages now and most people know that when you want to move somthing extremely valuable you do it in somthing that can tank like a mofo.
Nimie	Posted - 2006.03.01 16:38:00 - [58] Originally by: Avon Originally by: robacz Originally by: Avon Not needed. The guy who picks up your stuff is flagged to your corp - your escorts can blow him up. Oh, wait, you didn't bring an escort? Oh dear. That makes sense for low security space, not for highsec. I think this thread proves otherwise, don't you? no, not really. this thread started off with 200m. when you need an escort to carry 200m, you know empire is pirate infested.
Teles666	Posted - 2006.03.01 16:43:00 - [59] It'll take more than one suicide BS to take down an occator - if you want to haul high value goods train the skills, your one day old alt isn't good enough :) If your moving a T2 BPO for gods sake use a covert ops! If I saw you with a good BPO I'd gank you myself :)
Avon	Posted - 2006.03.01 16:44:00 - [60] Originally by: Nimie Originally by: Avon I think this thread proves otherwise, don't you? no, not really. this thread started off with 200m. when you need an escort to carry 200m, you know empire is pirate infested. You don't need an escort to transport 200mil in an appropriate ship. Putting your stuff in a ship worth only 0.2% of the value of the cargo, and expecting that to protect your investment is, frankly, insane. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Kylania	Posted - 2006.03.01 16:45:00 - [61] Originally by: Asane And if cargo scanning was made an aggro action - noone will use it, so what use will it be for having it in-game? So the entire reason cargo scanners exist is to greif and gank in high-sec? -- Lil Miner
Rafein	Posted - 2006.03.01 16:46:00 - [62] Still, tag the character name, and keep an eye on it to see if it gets recycled. kiling some in Empire is not wrong, but repeatedly doing it with repeatedly recycled characters will get you banned.
Nimie	Posted - 2006.03.01 16:58:00 - [63] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Nimie Originally by: Avon I think this thread proves otherwise, don't you? no, not really. this thread started off with 200m. when you need an escort to carry 200m, you know empire is pirate infested. You don't need an escort to transport 200mil in an appropriate ship. Putting your stuff in a ship worth only 0.2% of the value of the cargo, and expecting that to protect your investment is, frankly, insane. an indy is about 800k or so i guess? are you saying that i, for instance, should carry 8m tops in my indy? that's 10 percent. that's besides the point though. pirates shouldn't be in empire. pirates shouldn't be standing next to the busiest gate ganking over and over in front of hundreds of police, miner and industrialist. it's stupid. pirates should be in low and 0.0 sec. the game needs a change.
Haks'he Lirky	Posted - 2006.03.01 17:03:00 - [64] Originally by: Kylania Originally by: Asane And if cargo scanning was made an aggro action - noone will use it, so what use will it be for having it in-game? So the entire reason cargo scanners exist is to greif and gank in high-sec? uhm, you suggesting that this is a bad thing? EvE is one of the few mmog's out there that have pirating as a career path to actually choose, it's hard as hell but at least it's possible. So why not accept this brilliant game for what it is, a pvp game where most people can find something that they can do. No matter if it's gaining a steady income through manufacturing or stealing hard earned stuff from someone else.
000Hunter000	Posted - 2006.03.01 17:05:00 - [65] If u can afford transporting 200+ mill in your hauler u can afford a T2 transport. So get one and laugh if they shoot at u, cuz it's always fun seeing someone get OMGWTFPWNBBQ'ed by Concord
Cmdr Sy	Posted - 2006.03.01 17:07:00 - [66] Blockade runner with instas or covert ops 4tw, depending on cargo size. You're only looking at a 30m investment. If you are in the business of moving a quarter billion ISK even on an occasional basis, those purchases are essential.
Nimie	Posted - 2006.03.01 17:13:00 - [67] it's not the money for a t2 transport that keeps most people away from using them. it's the fact that you need 2 lvl 5 skills to use them. if you're only a small time hauler, it may be hard for you to coff up that much skill time when you rarely haul.
Avon	Posted - 2006.03.01 17:13:00 - [68] Originally by: Nimie the game needs a change. No. This isn't a game problem, it is an attitude problem. If you don't like the thought of ever getting shot, don't undock. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Nimie	Posted - 2006.03.01 17:16:00 - [69] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Nimie the game needs a change. No. This isn't a game problem, it is an attitude problem. If you don't like the thought of ever getting shot, don't undock. if you truly have good reason to belive in what you say, you should be able to give clear reasons instead of being spiteful.
Avon	Posted - 2006.03.01 17:18:00 - [70] Originally by: Nimie Originally by: Avon Originally by: Nimie the game needs a change. No. This isn't a game problem, it is an attitude problem. If you don't like the thought of ever getting shot, don't undock. if you truly have good reason to belive in what you say, you should be able to give clear reasons instead of being spiteful. I have given clear reasons. Until you accept the nature of the game, however, reason will be wasted on you. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Obmud	Posted - 2006.03.01 17:21:00 - [71] Ok we all know that rarely anyone has one or more friends in this game. So... if I had 200Mills worth stuff i would never find anyone out there to transport it for me :((((( I got no friends in this game.. oh wait, i play for 1 month and have already 3 people in my corp that would do that for me without a doubt. Plus with me as a forwardscout, darn. If you are so mindless about money... not the pirates fault. It hurts, but it was a 200Mill education... take it. ----------------------- Stupid. And proud of it.
Nimie	Posted - 2006.03.01 17:25:00 - [72] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Nimie Originally by: Avon Originally by: Nimie the game needs a change. No. This isn't a game problem, it is an attitude problem. If you don't like the thought of ever getting shot, don't undock. if you truly have good reason to belive in what you say, you should be able to give clear reasons instead of being spiteful. I have given clear reasons. Until you accept the nature of the game, however, reason will be wasted on you. you haven't. you stop after i said this that's besides the point though. pirates shouldn't be in empire. pirates shouldn't be standing next to the busiest gate ganking over and over in front of hundreds of police, miner and industrialist. it's stupid. pirates should be in low and 0.0 sec. the game needs a change. it is my belief that ccp intends on carebears primarly being in empire and pirates being in low sec. if pirates are heading into empire, that goes against ccp's orginal intent. if things keep going as it, low sec will have even less of a population.
Valrandir	Posted - 2006.03.01 17:27:00 - [73] _YOU_ are responsible for your own security. Not CONCORD, not the police, not CCP. It is up to _YOU_ to do something about it. --------------------------------
Ominus Decre	Posted - 2006.03.01 17:29:00 - [74] Originally by: turnschuh risk vs reward Quite sniviling and pay for a damned escort!! If you don't like then post your trade routes so others can camp it too.
Obmud	Posted - 2006.03.01 17:29:00 - [75] Originally by: Nimie Originally by: Avon Originally by: Nimie Originally by: Avon Originally by: Nimie the game needs a change. No. This isn't a game problem, it is an attitude problem. If you don't like the thought of ever getting shot, don't undock. if you truly have good reason to belive in what you say, you should be able to give clear reasons instead of being spiteful. I have given clear reasons. Until you accept the nature of the game, however, reason will be wasted on you. you haven't. you stop after i said this that's besides the point though. pirates shouldn't be in empire. pirates shouldn't be standing next to the busiest gate ganking over and over in front of hundreds of police, miner and industrialist. it's stupid. pirates should be in low and 0.0 sec. the game needs a change. it is my belief that ccp intends on carebears primarly being in empire and pirates being in low sec. if pirates are heading into empire, that goes against ccp's orginal intent. if things keep going as it, low sec will have even less of a population. CCP States Empire is safe ? No. They state in 1.0 Concord will instajump you. They mention in NO word that your babyass is safe for whatever. Deal with it. If you cant play by the rules dont play. Just because you don't eat the fact that some pirates take the risk in safesec won't give you the right to create fairy tales about what ccp intended. If they intended it they would have DEACTIVATED ANY COMBAT in 0.6-1.0 ----------------------- Stupid. And proud of it.
Asane	Posted - 2006.03.01 17:29:00 - [76] Edited by: Asane on 01/03/2006 17:29:17 Originally by: Nimie snippity that's besides the point though. pirates shouldn't be in empire. pirates shouldn't be standing next to the busiest gate ganking over and over in front of hundreds of police, miner and industrialist. it's stupid. pirates should be in low and 0.0 sec. the game needs a change. snippity Umm.. Well, those hundreds of police (Always much much lower to me...) will nuke the hell out of the pirate first of all. Second, pirates should be in low sec.. Ok.. Fine, they should. Now what? They still went to Empirespace. Edit: And are you even aware of what Concord is about? Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 kbs, ty - Cortes -- The image IS 400 x 120 and 64kbs
Smagd	Posted - 2006.03.01 17:31:00 - [77] Sigma, mostly my guess would be that turnschuh was just freshly upset about his loss. You're just rubbing it in. Yes you're right, but no, you're not going to help him. And no, choosing to post here about it was probably not a very good idea. Turnschuh, here's to hoping you'll recover, find another nice BPO and be back in a ship that'll tank the stupid suicide gankers till Concord busts them broke. Better than cancelling that subscription all the way. Smagd.
Ominus Decre	Posted - 2006.03.01 17:32:00 - [78] Originally by: Nimie Originally by: Avon Originally by: Nimie the game needs a change. No. This isn't a game problem, it is an attitude problem. If you don't like the thought of ever getting shot, don't undock. if you truly have good reason to belive in what you say, you should be able to give clear reasons instead of being spiteful. He pointed it out quite well. I';ll even put it in bold!
Nimie	Posted - 2006.03.01 17:36:00 - [79] Originally by: Obmud Originally by: Nimie Originally by: Avon Originally by: Nimie Originally by: Avon Originally by: Nimie the game needs a change. No. This isn't a game problem, it is an attitude problem. If you don't like the thought of ever getting shot, don't undock. if you truly have good reason to belive in what you say, you should be able to give clear reasons instead of being spiteful. I have given clear reasons. Until you accept the nature of the game, however, reason will be wasted on you. you haven't. you stop after i said this that's besides the point though. pirates shouldn't be in empire. pirates shouldn't be standing next to the busiest gate ganking over and over in front of hundreds of police, miner and industrialist. it's stupid. pirates should be in low and 0.0 sec. the game needs a change. it is my belief that ccp intends on carebears primarly being in empire and pirates being in low sec. if pirates are heading into empire, that goes against ccp's orginal intent. if things keep going as it, low sec will have even less of a population. CCP States Empire is safe ? No. They state in 1.0 Concord will instajump you. They mention in NO word that your babyass is safe for whatever. Deal with it. If you cant play by the rules dont play. Just because you don't eat the fact that some pirates take the risk in safesec won't give you the right to create fairy tales about what ccp intended. If they intended it they would have DEACTIVATED ANY COMBAT in 0.6-1.0 nowhere did i say empire should be completely safe. and i don't belive you should ever just accept the rules when you think there is a problem. if ccp suddenly made light missles do 400 damage a shot, you start to talk.
Asane	Posted - 2006.03.01 17:42:00 - [80] Speaking of Concord, let me give you a nice little history. There was once a goddess Concordia, whom the Romans worshipped. She was the goddess of agreement and understanding. Now during the travels of a Buddhist monk, a young boy once asked him why he looked so down. He answered with a smile and said "Because concord always comes after conflict and never before." Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 kbs, ty - Cortes -- The image IS 400 x 120 and 64kbs
Kitty O'Shay	Posted - 2006.03.01 17:43:00 - [81] The whining should really pick up tomorrow, when loot rights are changed. Originally by: Patch Notes # When someone explodes and the contents of their ship that are not destroyed are jettisoned, the right to loot the containers used to store these contents is given to the people that someone is aggressionflagged towards. If they are criminal flagged (aggression flagged to everyone) then everyone can loot the container. If that someone is aggression flagged towards corporations, members of those corporations have a right to loot the container. If that someone is aggression flagged towards certain pilots, those pilots have a right to loot the container. Bottom line: loot goes to killer, but if killer is crim flagged, anyone can loot w/o flag. Also non-corp gangmates won't get to shoot a thief. Now the loot scooper in a noob corp won't be flagged to the victim or his corp. Let the crying begin.... -- My drones are about as smart as a smartbomb.
Helplessandlost	Posted - 2006.03.01 17:46:00 - [82] Originally by: NimieLot lots of stuff... nowhere did i say empire should be completely safe. and i don't belive you should ever just accept the rules when you think there is a problem. if ccp suddenly made light missles do 400 damage a shot, you start to talk. The rules are there and we all need to live by them, Pirates are not allowed in High Sec empire once the reach a certain sec status which they can easily hit with one or two ganks. That's not to say that they can't get it back up, their sec status, but it takes a period of time. "Don't take life too seriously, nobody gets out alive!" Check us out
Asane	Posted - 2006.03.01 17:50:00 - [83] Originally by: Patch Notes # When someone explodes and the contents of their ship that are not destroyed are jettisoned, the right to loot the containers used to store these contents is given to the people that someone is aggressionflagged towards. If they are criminal flagged (aggression flagged to everyone) then everyone can loot the container. If that someone is aggression flagged towards corporations, members of those corporations have a right to loot the container. If that someone is aggression flagged towards certain pilots, those pilots have a right to loot the container. Doesn't it just say that pirates are even more outlawed now than before? Can't really argue against the fact that Concord won't mind if you steal from murderers Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 kbs, ty - Cortes -- The image IS 400 x 120 and 64kbs
Nimie	Posted - 2006.03.01 17:54:00 - [84] Originally by: Helplessandlost Edited by: Helplessandlost on 01/03/2006 17:48:38 Originally by: NimieLot lots of stuff... nowhere did i say empire should be completely safe. and i don't belive you should ever just accept the rules when you think there is a problem. if ccp suddenly made light missles do 400 damage a shot, you start to talk. The rules are there and we all need to live by them, Pirates are not allowed in High Sec empire once they reach a certain sec status which they can easily hit with one or two ganks. That's not to say that they can't get it back up, their sec status, but it takes a period of time. *edit spelling i can't really agree with just living by rules and not complaining about them. that is a litte... anyhow, with 0.0 sec, isn't it 10 ganks before you have to leave? can't you gain up your sec pretty fast if you rat in 0.0 space too?
Jonis Sinmaker	Posted - 2006.03.01 17:55:00 - [85] Whining Op "I lost my stuff to empire gank" thread #13 WOOOOoooo0000T!!!! Originally by: David Sinclair As I say every time this topic comes up: The problem is not the suicide-ganking, but that Concord let's someone loot the corpse right under their noses. Someone mentioned an armored car. Well, what if someone comes up with an RPG, blows up the armored car. Police, drawn to the noise, gun him down and hang about the area, presumably doing paperwork or collecting evidence or eating donuts or something. Someone else comes along and scoops up all the money. Do you honestly think the police would just let some supposedly random passerby loot the truck? Concord should not allow theft to occur under their noses. I don't think theft should "summon" concord, like when you attack another ship, but if Concord is already on site, they should not allow theft. Well if the Op was smart and had an escort, OMG that takes planning, then his loot would have never been taken and if it was the guy who took it would be aggressed to any corp m8 that was escorting....crazy huh...this whole can aggro that the masses cried for but never use. Look if you lose your stuff then it's ** poor planning on your part. All it boils down to is who wants your stuff more...you or the guy who is willing to lose his battleship. Let's take idiot #1 who lost 10 BILLION, <-- lot of isk, in T2 BPO's...WHAT THE HELL WERE YOU THINKING MAN! Did your brain just come to a halt seconds before you decided to put your T2 BPO's in a hauler...they take up NO SPACE, why not use a fast shuttle or a frig or a cov op....comeone...you deserved to lose what you got because of your poor planning. Basiclly it's liek the old saying goes " poor planning on your part does not constitue an emergency on my part" so don't think CCP is going to lift a finger because you are not using all the tools at hand to keep YOUR stuff safe, because obviously someone else wanted your stuff more then you did or you would still have it. Instead of DEMANDING the CCP fix it, why not figure out how it works because "it ain't broke!" And please for the love of god try to prove me wrong so I can watch the forums just light up with loving flames from the masses to burn your whining complaints to the ground. Disclaimer: My thoughts are my own and do not represent the thoughts and opinions of my alliance and/or corporation. I am the only ***** here :) ------- Semper Fi Jonis Sinmaker Bring back Mines [green]Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120,
Turas Kain	Posted - 2006.03.01 18:05:00 - [86] hehe, this thread is amusing. You are free to transport high value items in whatever means you deem neccessary. As already stated though if you do choose to walk around with a wad of isk in a simple T1 hauler without any escort then dont be suprised if someone gets an itchy trigger finger. I'm pretty sure most people would pop a hauler for a T2 BPO if they chanced upon it. Frankly I'd use a frig for any BPO's anything else seems silly. As for other things such as mins and more weighty hauls then if you want to be hauling such things about go for a T2 hauler or hire someone with one. Yes it takes skills but so do T2 guns. And if your reguarly hauling high amounts of isk you should be making sure your a damn good hauler. If not so regular then pay someone else. There is no problem here. Just fat lazy targets
Ikvar	Posted - 2006.03.01 18:14:00 - [87] Edited by: Ikvar on 01/03/2006 18:14:20 Originally by: Tobiaz People losing T2 BPO's to a empire suicide gank didn't deserve them in the first place. Couldn't have said it better myself. If you're moving a T2 BPO that takes up no cargo room in a ship that can be killed before CONCORD/Sentry intervention in highsec, you are an idiot. Originally by: Avon I actually enjoy crafting in EQ2.
Sixtyniner	Posted - 2006.03.01 18:14:00 - [88] "it is my belief that ccp intends on empire being carebear's home and low sec being pirate's home. as things are, empire will soon be both carebear's home and pirate's home and noone will be living in low sec. if things keep going as it, low sec will have a nil population." It¦s my belief that CCP gave us an universe, with some rules, that we could make something out of our own. Some systems where made as "high sec", with sentryguns and concord. Some have not these things. As in real life, there are cops and other lawenforcments, but those wont keep a murderer away from sticking a knife in a random guy. Empire is not intended to be a "carebear happy place", its just space with the police. Sure its safer than 0.0-0.4, but in EVE you are never safe. If you wanna be safe, go play WoW on a PVE server or something. Eve is brutal, it will show you now mercy ;) If ill; sickbay. If wounded; Corpsman. If dead; graves registration. If losing his mind, however, no standard solution exists.
David Sinclair	Posted - 2006.03.01 18:18:00 - [89] Originally by: Jonis Sinmaker Whining Op "I lost my stuff to empire gank" thread #13 WOOOOoooo0000T!!!! Originally by: David Sinclair As I say every time this topic comes up: The problem is not the suicide-ganking, but that Concord let's someone loot the corpse right under their noses. Someone mentioned an armored car. Well, what if someone comes up with an RPG, blows up the armored car. Police, drawn to the noise, gun him down and hang about the area, presumably doing paperwork or collecting evidence or eating donuts or something. Someone else comes along and scoops up all the money. Do you honestly think the police would just let some supposedly random passerby loot the truck? Concord should not allow theft to occur under their noses. I don't think theft should "summon" concord, like when you attack another ship, but if Concord is already on site, they should not allow theft. Well if the Op was smart and had an escort, OMG that takes planning, then his loot would have never been taken and if it was the guy who took it would be aggressed to any corp m8 that was escorting....crazy huh...this whole can aggro that the masses cried for but never use. Look if you lose your stuff then it's ** poor planning on your part. All it boils down to is who wants your stuff more...you or the guy who is willing to lose his battleship. Let's take idiot #1 who lost 10 BILLION, <-- lot of isk, in T2 BPO's...WHAT THE HELL WERE YOU THINKING MAN! Did your brain just come to a halt seconds before you decided to put your T2 BPO's in a hauler...they take up NO SPACE, why not use a fast shuttle or a frig or a cov op....comeone...you deserved to lose what you got because of your poor planning. Basiclly it's liek the old saying goes " poor planning on your part does not constitue an emergency on my part" so don't think CCP is going to lift a finger because you are not using all the tools at hand to keep YOUR stuff safe, because obviously someone else wanted your stuff more then you did or you would still have it. Instead of DEMANDING the CCP fix it, why not figure out how it works because "it ain't broke!" And please for the love of god try to prove me wrong so I can watch the forums just light up with loving flames from the masses to burn your whining complaints to the ground. Disclaimer: My thoughts are my own and do not represent the thoughts and opinions of my alliance and/or corporation. I am the only ***** here :) Nothing what you said refutes my point: Police shouldn't just stand around while someone loots someone else's body. Your point about escorts also has two holes: 1) If I understand the patch notes listed above, a member of an NPC corp can loot the cans without getting flagged. 2) What if the looters have more firepower? If you shoot the looter, as I understand it, his whole gang can shoot back at you. Since this would be considered a "legitimate" disagreement, Concord wouldn't interfere. What constitutes a good enough escort for high-sec transportation? Let's say the camp involves four people. Three Battleships and a Transport Ship to loot. The Battleships rotate ganking. If any escorts take a shot at the looter, the BS's open up from long range. My problem is less with the idea of piracy in empire space and more the fact that there are a dozen large concord vessels just floating around completely oblivious. It just doesn't make sense. I don't think I'll ever have to worry about it personally. When I move something valuable, I use the smallest fastest ship I can find.
Avon	Posted - 2006.03.01 18:34:00 - [90] Edited by: Avon on 01/03/2006 18:35:02 This thread is a perfect example of my earlier "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly" thread. The Good: Protect yourself. Scout. Prepare. Take an escort. If your loot back if it is taken, take it back. The Bad: Kill the fat nub haulers and take their stuff, Yarr!!Ö The Ugly: Ohnoes, the game is broken. I want the game changed. I should be protected. I don't want to be responsible for my own actions. The only game mechanic change required here it the introduction of a new Concord ship. The Concord whaaaaaaaaambulance. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Abvrasious	Posted - 2006.03.01 18:50:00 - [91] Quote: seams you all need to loose 10bil t2 BPOs first before you get a clue how stupid this "empire security" is at the moment. 1. You can't get a ship to fly 3,500 m/s if you are flying a cargo that takes up .001 m3? Use instats, or fly something fast, you will never get killed. 2. Secure can, passworded. ------------- www.eve-files.com/media/corp/20thb/Abra-Banner.jpg[/img] Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 kbs, ty - Cortes
Pesadel0	Posted - 2006.03.01 18:51:00 - [92] No.
Nimie	Posted - 2006.03.01 18:52:00 - [93] Edited by: Nimie on 01/03/2006 18:55:20 let's remove the clone system than. eve is suppose to be brutal. and that would actually make me happy. mind you that only carebears have brought up finer mechanices of the game. instead of refuting things that don't make sense like pirates in front of hunderds of police, miners and such ganking at a gate over and over or looting a corpse when hundreds of police are around, pirates have only been saying things like "eve is suppose to be brutal" and "no space is safe", as if it's ok that the game doesn't make sense as long as it's brutal or not safe. other than the example with the armored escort, which doesn't apply to low amounts of goods(ever seen an armored escort carrying 60 buck(200m isk)), pirates have offered nothing. it's even more funny when a bunch of pirates tells you you should just meekly follow the rules, when a carebear is trying to change the rules, or in another part of these forums, pirates acting like carebears when it comes to t2 pricing.
inSpirAcy	Posted - 2006.03.01 18:54:00 - [94] Originally by: Nimie it's not the money for a t2 transport that keeps most people away from using them. it's the fact that you need 2 lvl 5 skills to use them. if you're only a small time hauler, it may be hard for you to coff up that much skill time when you rarely haul. It stopped being small time the moment you picked up 200 mil of cargo. Really, that amount of money is not small time. One of those L5 skills is a rank 1, so that's 5 days (a week tops) of your precious time. The other's a rank 4; but that's still only a few weeks and it's (clearly) essential if you want to play with the big boys.
Gonada	Posted - 2006.03.01 18:57:00 - [95] Couldn't have said it better myself. If you're moving a T2 BPO that takes up no cargo room in a ship that can be killed before CONCORD/Sentry intervention in highsec, you are an idiot. ---------------------------------------------------- amen, when god gave out brains, apperantly he forgot to give em to those that transport mega value items, in worthless ships, with no protection. -I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.-
Malena Panic	Posted - 2006.03.01 19:03:00 - [96] Originally by: robacz it is not ok that Concord watch how someone steals cargo from killed ship - Concord should collect it and send to legal owner. Its like policeman witnessed a murder, arrested murderer and let his friend to steal victim's car. Makes no sense. Concord isn't like a state police force, but more like a peacekeeping organization, with a limited mandate and even more restricted rules of engagement.
Nimie	Posted - 2006.03.01 19:08:00 - [97] Originally by: Gonada Couldn't have said it better myself. If you're moving a T2 BPO that takes up no cargo room in a ship that can be killed before CONCORD/Sentry intervention in highsec, you are an idiot. ---------------------------------------------------- amen, when god gave out brains, apperantly he forgot to give em to those that transport mega value items, in worthless ships, with no protection. the only thing carebears have brought up so far is the insurance system, which will do nothing for those carrying t2 bpo. the insurance system will only help those with lower amount value of carge, but is still getting resistance. mind you even though i use 200m, the current system allows you to profit even with 100m.
Asane	Posted - 2006.03.01 19:09:00 - [98] Edited by: Asane on 01/03/2006 19:11:13 Let's put it in a questing back at you then: How are the Concord going to stop a suicider from suiciding? Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 kbs, ty - Cortes -- The image IS 400 x 120 and 64kbs
dantes inferno	Posted - 2006.03.01 19:29:00 - [99] Ok lets see, Eve has 1) no sec space which is 0.0 2) low sec space which is 0.4-0.1 3) high sec space which is 0.5 + nowere in that list do i see perfect sec space, no matter where you are in eve there is a chance you will be killed, now if you are attacked by gates/ stations in low sec..sentry guns help if you are attacked in high sec then concord come to your aid...now the confusion here is people belive that concord should be an inviunrible shild which stops you dying..wrong if the pirate is willing to loose his ship in the proces..he will kill you, now as for the pirates buddy taking the loot, it is not within concords mandate to stop it...their job is to kill the aggressor. pirates are not limited to low sec they can go anywere in the game..the only limit is their sec status..the differnce between the secs for the pirates is how easy it is for them to kill. in low they can get away with it,....in high they have to die. it is YOUR job to protect yourself not concords, if you cant grasp the simple concept that your detiny is in your hands and not the npc police..then eve is not the game for you _____ This is a Stain Alliance Fighter. It is protecting the assets of Stain Alliance, and may attack anyone it perceives as a threat, Threat Level: Trigglarist Fundermentalist
Jaddor	Posted - 2006.03.01 19:33:00 - [100] Whats stupid is that Concord blows up the attacker in a suicide ship and then lets the alt/friend loot the cans without interfearance.
Azuriel Talloth	Posted - 2006.03.01 19:38:00 - [101] Originally by: Jaddor Whats stupid is that Concord blows up the attacker in a suicide ship and then lets the alt/friend loot the cans without interfearance. Originally by: Malena Panic Concord isn't like a state police force, but more like a peacekeeping organization, with a limited mandate and even more restricted rules of engagement. I don't think the game is the one being "stupid" here
Jonis Sinmaker	Posted - 2006.03.01 19:43:00 - [102] Originally by: Asane Edited by: Asane on 01/03/2006 19:11:13 Let's put it in a questing back at you then: How are the Concord going to stop a suicider from suiciding? They are not going to stop it. Concord is there as a deterant not as a WTFPWND every pirate in sight service. They are there to keep people from GRIEFING new players and taking control of high sec systems not to protect those who are inept at keeping their goods safe due to lack of planning. Quote: Nothing what you said refutes my point: Police shouldn't just stand around while someone loots someone else's body. Your point about escorts also has two holes: 1) If I understand the patch notes listed above, a member of an NPC corp can loot the cans without getting flagged. 2) What if the looters have more firepower? If you shoot the looter, as I understand it, his whole gang can shoot back at you. Since this would be considered a "legitimate" disagreement, Concord wouldn't interfere. What constitutes a good enough escort for high-sec transportation? Let's say the camp involves four people. Three Battleships and a Transport Ship to loot. The Battleships rotate ganking. If any escorts take a shot at the looter, the BS's open up from long range. My problem is less with the idea of piracy in empire space and more the fact that there are a dozen large concord vessels just floating around completely oblivious. It just doesn't make sense. I don't think I'll ever have to worry about it personally. When I move something valuable, I use the smallest fastest ship I can find. I am more irritated with the Op then you m8. I quoted you because you, like the Op, seem to think Concord is there to hold everyones hand in "almost safe" space. The sec rating of systems has you fooled and the fact everyone that gets ganked in high sec seems to think that this hasn't happend before. High sec ganking has been going on since beta testing and I know....I've watched me do it while in beta testing and during caster so it's nothing new and has actually becaome very hard to do considering how easy it was back in the day. What gets me the most is everyone seems to think that high sec ganking has gotten worse...well it hasn't. It has just gotten more public attention in the past few months then it ever did. Before when it happened everyone knew that it could happen and we just DELT with it. We didn't try to change the game to make it easier...IT'S A PvP BASED GAME! Ask a dev they'll tell you the same. As far as NPC corp members being allowed to gank cans and not get flagged I agree that is bull and should be changed, but I haven't seen anywhere it says that so I would like to know of a reference that you speak of for this. <-- That was actually your only good point by the way, if it is true. Now as far as your other comment. "What if the looters have more firepower?" Well bro I hate to say it, but your screwed. I can honestly say that no pirate is going to get into a huge fleet battle in high sec unless they are at war with you. If you bring an escort crew of 3 or 4 ships and your hauler does get ganked I can pretty much bet the other ships will not try to become another concord statistic for aggroing the escorts....just no profit in that. If the looters have a hauler there scooping your loot, that hauler is then aggroed to your corp and in turn is now a legal target. It all boils down to planning. If you plan right and keep your wits about you then you will be fine. Use some common sence...you see some guys following you and you warp into a gate and see a raven shield tanking on the gate....get your arse out of there...don't try to truck it to the gate....also use instas in heavy trafic areas like....hmmmm....JITA! Use a scout to see how the route is and make sure there is no shady people lurking around the gates in in your route....just use some freakin street smarts. ------- Semper Fi Jonis Sinmaker Bring back Mines [green]Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120,
Nimie	Posted - 2006.03.01 19:46:00 - [103] Originally by: dantes inferno Ok lets see, Eve has 1) no sec space which is 0.0 2) low sec space which is 0.4-0.1 3) high sec space which is 0.5 + nowere in that list do i see perfect sec space, no matter where you are in eve there is a chance you will be killed, now if you are attacked by gates/ stations in low sec..sentry guns help if you are attacked in high sec then concord come to your aid...now the confusion here is people belive that concord should be an inviunrible shild which stops you dying..wrong if the pirate is willing to loose his ship in the proces..he will kill you, now as for the pirates buddy taking the loot, it is not within concords mandate to stop it...their job is to kill the aggressor. pirates are not limited to low sec they can go anywere in the game..the only limit is their sec status..the differnce between the secs for the pirates is how easy it is for them to kill. in low they can get away with it,....in high they have to die. it is YOUR job to protect yourself not concords, if you cant grasp the simple concept that your detiny is in your hands and not the npc police..then eve is not the game for you nooone here so far is trying to say empire should be compeltly safe or is saying that concord should be invulnerable shield which stops you from dying. the only thing said so for is 1) the insurance system change, which does not make concord an invulnerable shield that protects your billion+ goods in any way nor turn empire space into a completly safe happy happy carebear zone, and 2) that pirates ganking and looting at the gate over and over again in front of hundreds of police, miners and such does not make sense. in case one, someone wants a change to the insurance system. in case 2, i want someone to say that it's weird.
Wee Dave	Posted - 2006.03.01 19:47:00 - [104] I've found the following to be useful for transporting expensive bpos: CovOps Transport ships Interceptors Assault Frigates Battleships Fast frigates with an mwd. Even if you end up in a fast frigate, your mwd should allow you to hit a gate in about six seconds. Nobody will scan you, figure out you have worthwhile cargo, and gank you in that time. Especially if you keep it in a small container.
Asane	Posted - 2006.03.01 19:50:00 - [105] Insure cargo..? As in being able to insure, go out, get a friend to kill you and get both the items and money? Second, what are the miners gonna do? Third, if they kill people infront of "hundreds" (Where are these hundreds of concord?) of police: They. Get. Killed. Over and over again. As for looting that's not Concords issue Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 kbs, ty - Cortes -- The image IS 400 x 120 and 64kbs
Professor McFly	Posted - 2006.03.01 19:56:00 - [106] All the whining in this thread makes me want to give up my honourable ways and take up piracy and griefing. Is this normal? __________________ Retard's handbook
Ardent Rellik	Posted - 2006.03.01 19:57:00 - [107] Threads like this are croping up every few weeks. What bugs me is that some people who are screaming and yelling to high heaven are supposed Veterans, who been playing this game forever now. Makes one wonder as to where have they been all these years.... .... I actually read through the entire thread... Man, some people really have no clue. Anyway, there are bunch of good ways of protecting yourself in Empire. Ganking People in High Sec. Space is a "LEGITIMATE TACTIC" & it works. Chill out! And next time be prepared to be ganked, take precautions.
w0rmy	Posted - 2006.03.01 20:02:00 - [108] Originally by: turnschuh seams you all need to loose 10bil t2 BPOs first before you get a clue how stupid this "empire security" is at the moment. What kind of fool puts 10bil in BPO in a indy? You deserve what you get. Of course people whine, its cause your sig sucks
Asane	Posted - 2006.03.01 20:04:00 - [109] Originally by: Ardent Rellik Threads like this are croping up every few weeks. What bugs me is that some people who are screaming and yelling to high heaven are supposed Veterans, who been playing this game forever now. Makes one wonder as to where have they been all these years.... Shouldn't you have learned by now, that the veterans that get into a situation where they were the underdog, in 40% of the cases run to the forums to cry because the game is "Broken". Veteran + Being at the recieving end = Whiner Much in the way WoW player + Forum access = Whiner Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 kbs, ty - Cortes -- The image IS 400 x 120 and 64kbs
Nimie	Posted - 2006.03.01 20:15:00 - [110] it's more like eve hardcore players=wow players in disguise. you say you want it brutal and hardcore, yet you cry when someone wants to take away your cheap disposable ships.
Asane	Posted - 2006.03.01 20:17:00 - [111] Originally by: Nimie it's more like eve hardcore players=wow players in disguise. you say you want it brutal and hardcore, yet you cry when someone wants to take away your cheap disposable ships. It's the other way around... We want it player driven, not NPC driven Please resize your forum signature graphic to be smaller than 24,000 bytes in filesize - Jacques -Stop missleading me!!
Nimie	Posted - 2006.03.01 20:24:00 - [112] Originally by: Asane Originally by: Nimie it's more like eve hardcore players=wow players in disguise. you say you want it brutal and hardcore, yet you cry when someone wants to take away your cheap disposable ships. It's the other way around... We want it player driven, not NPC driven insurance is npc. so you're saying you guys want the insurance system removed?
Karash Amerius	Posted - 2006.03.01 20:30:00 - [113] It is just more popular now because of the huge influx of newbs we have ever since the JunkieXL video came out (note to ccp: make another promo vid). Empire ganking has been in the game since day one...there is just a misconception about "safe space" out there and no one is cluing the newbs in.
Gray Carmicheal	Posted - 2006.03.01 20:30:00 - [114] Originally by: Nimie Originally by: Asane Originally by: Nimie it's more like eve hardcore players=wow players in disguise. you say you want it brutal and hardcore, yet you cry when someone wants to take away your cheap disposable ships. It's the other way around... We want it player driven, not NPC driven insurance is npc. so you're saying you guys want the insurance system removed? Or driven by Player Corps. I could see Progressive Insurance in Eve My sig was CONCORDOKKENED. I blame Wrangler H4x.
Xelios	Posted - 2006.03.01 20:33:00 - [115] Edited by: Xelios on 01/03/2006 20:34:15 Buy a Transport. Keep all your cargo in secure cans, that way they can't scan them. CCP has already given you the tools to sa***uard your cargo in empire, it's not their fault you aren't using them. You're never 100% safe in EVE, that's been the idea since day 1. /edit CCP you have GOT to be kidding me, what the hell is profane about the word "s-a-f-e-g-u-a-r-d"? Get this forum filter under control, we're all adults here this isn't a preschool Signature removed. -Zhuge ([email protected]) Woot.
Haks'he Lirky	Posted - 2006.03.01 20:34:00 - [116] Originally by: Nimie in case 2, i want someone to agree that it's weird. It's a frigging computer game, you want to draw up a list of things that dont make sense? It will take you a lifetime to sort through it and then you have the prime fiction nuts yelling at you that it has all been "explained" in the articles of EVE, wich is btw the religous manuscript to many. EvE is what it is, most people enjoy it. Some only enjoy it while their precious ships stay intact (they dont last long though). But comeon, if you loose something because you were being less than religous concerning your own safety and your cargo then you just have to suck it up and try better next time. And if your loss seems to be larger than you can grasp at the moment then just take a deep breath and chant "this is a game, im playing for fun and I like playing EVE." and continue with your gaming session. It's like sending a letter to nintendo because Mario lost your shooting thing because the turtle thing got your shooting thing while you were trying to use the shooting thing to get the other turtle thing. Fly a ship that pirates cant kill, or dont fly around with cargo they want.
Nimie	Posted - 2006.03.01 20:46:00 - [117] Originally by: Haks'he Lirky Originally by: Nimie in case 2, i want someone to agree that it's weird. It's a frigging computer game, you want to draw up a list of things that dont make sense? It will take you a lifetime to sort through it and then you have the prime fiction nuts yelling at you that it has all been "explained" in the articles of EVE, wich is btw the religous manuscript to many. EvE is what it is, most people enjoy it. Some only enjoy it while their precious ships stay intact (they dont last long though). But comeon, if you loose something because you were being less than religous concerning your own safety and your cargo then you just have to suck it up and try better next time. And if your loss seems to be larger than you can grasp at the moment then just take a deep breath and chant "this is a game, im playing for fun and I like playing EVE." and continue with your gaming session. It's like sending a letter to nintendo because Mario lost your shooting thing because the turtle thing got your shooting thing while you were trying to use the shooting thing to get the other turtle thing. Fly a ship that pirates cant kill, or dont fly around with cargo they want. i enjoy this aspect of the game though. i enjoy arguing and "balancing." side note: can't cargo scans go through cargo containers? i've heard stories that go both ways.
Greenbolt	Posted - 2006.03.01 20:54:00 - [118] Edited by: Greenbolt on 01/03/2006 20:55:35 While I see nothing wrong with the tactic of suicide bombing a industrial (heck it happens in real life all the time..even in front of police or military stations) and grabbing the loot I dont understand why insurance pays out when your ganked by concord. You would think that being found guilty of a capital crime by Concord (and therefore getting blown to pieces) would be the perfect excuse for the insurance companies not to pay and therefore maximize more of their profit. I also vote that you should not get your ship insurance payout if your Concord killed or Custom Agent killed (black market smuggling). Edited cuzz i cant speeel
Dray	Posted - 2006.03.01 20:59:00 - [119] 2 days ago i lost a shuttle to a high sec gank, it was carrying a machariel bpc. I lived with it, ive played this game since beta and i know the risks, all the blame lies with me, it was my fault and noone elses, not concord, not the guy who popped me, and certainly not ccp's. I lost a 450M bpc but got a prompt reminder of why you should not take anything for granted in eve, eve dosent take care of idiots, infact it does quite the opposite, it punishes them and does it serverely in some cases, this is why i play and this is why i love the game. Bottom line, deal with it, live with it, but dont come here and cry about it, you will get no more than you deserve.
Jerick Ludhowe	Posted - 2006.03.01 21:06:00 - [120] You complain about balance yet there are things ALREADY IMPLEMENTED in EVE that allow you or anyone else to get around high sec suicide pirates. If you are unwilling to take the propper actions to protect yourself then you deserve the loss of that cargo in your hold. This is a PVP GAME afterall...
Nimie	Posted - 2006.03.01 21:07:00 - [121] simply because you are a victim doesn't mean that it's ok. a game is simply a bunch of rules. by changing the rules you change the game. when you change the rules, how does the game change as a result of it? did the game change in the way that you wanted? that is the question. does ccp want a game where pirates at gate ganking and looting over and over while be watched by hundreds of miners and police? if so, keep the game as it. if not, change the game. when given the choice, you can either adapt to your enviroment or change your enviroment to suit your needs. some do the first, others do the second. mankind as a whole has surived by the second.
Turas Kain	Posted - 2006.03.01 21:21:00 - [122] Originally by: Nimie simply because you are a victim doesn't mean that it's ok. a game is simply a bunch of rules. by changing the rules you change the game. when you change the rules, how does the game change as a result of it? did the game change in the way that you wanted? that is the question. does ccp want a game where pirates at gate ganking and looting over and over while be watched by hundreds of miners and police? if so, keep the game as it. if not, change the game. when given the choice, you can either adapt to your enviroment or change your enviroment to suit your needs. some do the first, others do the second. mankind as a whole has surived by the second. ah, so its is a case of complaining the game is broken because it doesn't suit YOU personally.
dantes inferno	Posted - 2006.03.01 21:43:00 - [123] Quote: does ccp want a game where pirates at gate ganking and looting over and over while be watched by hundreds of miners and police? i think you will find the answer to this is yes, which is why the game is as it is...as long as you pay the price (death by concord) ccp dont care how much you kill in high sec, and they will never make EVE a caerbear heaven where concord will hold your hand while crossing the street, nor will they make it that concord attack people opening the loot can, as it would limit the game in a harmeful way,...the freedom of loot thieves would be hampred..you have the tools to kill the pirates mate..bring a mate of your own and let him take advantage of the can flagging (which brings us back to the escort point! dont you think that the 2 man pirate team should have more advantage over the 1 man idiot caerbare carrying a 10 mil bpo in a tech 1 indy?) _____ This is a Stain Alliance Fighter. It is protecting the assets of Stain Alliance, and may attack anyone it perceives as a threat, Threat Level: Trigglarist Fundermentalist
Xelios	Posted - 2006.03.01 21:51:00 - [124] Escort is exactly the thing. If you're going to be carrying a 10 bil bpo in the cargo hold on a standard indy then bring some escort, otherwise you're liable to lose that bpo to a gate gank. Hell there are so many ways to ensure something like this doesn't happen to you, I'm just tired of people being too lazy and demanding CCP to fix their problems for them. Like I said, never forget the golden rule of EVE, you are never 100% safe when you are in space, plan accordingly. Signature removed. -Zhuge ([email protected]) Woot.
Nimie	Posted - 2006.03.01 22:03:00 - [125] Edited by: Nimie on 01/03/2006 22:06:14 Edited by: Nimie on 01/03/2006 22:03:00 Originally by: Turas Kain Originally by: Nimie simply because you are a victim doesn't mean that it's ok. a game is simply a bunch of rules. by changing the rules you change the game. when you change the rules, how does the game change as a result of it? did the game change in the way that you wanted? that is the question. does ccp want a game where pirates at gate ganking and looting over and over while be watched by hundreds of miners and police? if so, keep the game as it. if not, change the game. when given the choice, you can either adapt to your enviroment or change your enviroment to suit your needs. some do the first, others do the second. mankind as a whole has surived by the second. ah, so its is a case of complaining the game is broken because it doesn't suit YOU personally. it is more a case of complaining because the game doesn't follow normal logic, or more correctly, is/has nonsense. i would equaly complain if they added elves and dwarves. Originally by: dantes inferno Quote: does ccp want a game where pirates at gate ganking and looting over and over while be watched by hundreds of miners and police? i think you will find the answer to this is yes. if this is the case, i have no more grounds to complain, for now. as long as ccp is fully aware that the current system allows a bs to make money off anyone carrying over 100m in goods or says that a t1 indy isn't suppose to carry more than 100m in goods in empire or something of that sort, i will quietly and quickly stop complaining. just a few words from ccp is enough. if those of you truly do feel the game works as ccp intended, let's work together as ask ccp to make a response. if ccp just says that a t1 indy isn't suppose to carry 100m+ in goods, than everything will be solved. so we just need to get ccp to read a 3 minute post. remember, we're talking about 100m, not 10b. we gotten at least 7 of these threads in the past month. let's end it all with the undeniable voice of ccp ok? so how about it everyone?
Turas Kain	Posted - 2006.03.01 22:08:00 - [126] How's about we just say - CCP made the game. CCP knows this has been happening for a long time. CCP have not changed it. Seems to me they have already answered.
Tony Fats	Posted - 2006.03.01 22:12:00 - [127] Empire should not be safe. Piracy should be able to be done everywhere.
Nimie	Posted - 2006.03.01 22:13:00 - [128] that answer has already been used and it doesn't work. a more recent response should have much more force.
Nimie	Posted - 2006.03.01 22:15:00 - [129] Originally by: Tony Fats Empire should not be safe. Piracy should be able to be done everywhere. noone said piracy can't. it's only a question how how much of it is done per area, as in 80 percent of all piracy is done in empire and 20 in low/0.0 sec or 80 percent in low/0.0 sec and 20 in empire.
dantes inferno	Posted - 2006.03.01 22:16:00 - [130] Quote: if those of you truly do feel the game works as ccp intended, let's work together and ask ccp to make a response. if ccp just says that a t1 indy isn't suppose to carry 100m+ in goods in empire, than everything will be solved. so we just need to get ccp to read a 3 minute post. remember, we're talking about 100m, not 10b. we gotten at least 7 of these threads in the past month. let's end it all with the undeniable force of ccp. so how about it everyone? ummm..why should they? every one else here knows this already..and understood what eve was when they started playing..as long as you not breaking the games rules (i.e. exploits other bannable offenses) if you can get away with it...ccp dont care, its the freedom of eve which makes it what it is..the only people who question this are the caerbears who cant look after themselves in a game and need the devs to hold their hand i could rob your corp of 20 bil in assets..ccp wouldnt give a damn, i could gank your tech 1 hauler in 1.0 and take 50 billion in loot...as long as the ship which fired dies..ccp wont give a damn. _____ This is a Stain Alliance Fighter. It is protecting the assets of Stain Alliance, and may attack anyone it perceives as a threat, Threat Level: Trigglarist Fundermentalist
Jowen Datloran	Posted - 2006.03.01 22:20:00 - [131] Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 01/03/2006 22:21:07 Though I don't generally feel like participating in a thread with name callings and insults flying through the air, I will comment on this one. I fully support the actions of these high sec suicide pirates. Would be a big shame if it were removed. ---------------- Main as main can be. Freelance producer of: Spike M hybrid ammo (1k/unit) Damnation command cruiser (200m/unit) Now with BYOM deal, see bio for details.
Nimie	Posted - 2006.03.01 22:23:00 - [132] Originally by: dantes inferno Quote: if those of you truly do feel the game works as ccp intended, let's work together and ask ccp to make a response. if ccp just says that a t1 indy isn't suppose to carry 100m+ in goods in empire, than everything will be solved. so we just need to get ccp to read a 3 minute post. remember, we're talking about 100m, not 10b. we gotten at least 7 of these threads in the past month. let's end it all with the undeniable force of ccp. so how about it everyone? ummm..why should they? every one else here knows this already..and understood what eve was when they started playing..as long as you not breaking the games rules (i.e. exploits other bannable offenses) if you can get away with it...ccp dont care, its the freedom of eve which makes it what it is..the only people who question this are the caerbears who cant look after themselves in a game and need the devs to hold their hand i could rob your corp of 20 bil in assets..ccp wouldnt give a damn, i could gank your tech 1 hauler in 1.0 and take 50 billion in loot...as long as the ship which fired dies..ccp wont give a damn. because many people are not aware and want a more recent answer. the current rules isn't important. this is the desire to change something, and to know ccp's current intentions.
Gwyntar	Posted - 2006.03.01 22:27:00 - [133] This thread always comes around. Yeah it's kind of annoying that you have to train up a decent ship skill if you have to haul valuable cargos. I do some module trading on an alt who doesnt have much in the way of skills yet and its a real hassle not being able to haul more than about 50 mill, especially if the margins arent too good, but that's the way the game works - cant let a new character without lots of skillpoints do anything :). Its kind of amusing to see the specious RL comparisons. Sure in RL you can do this. Once. Then you get caught, sent to jail and by the time you get out you have grey hair. In Eve you can go back to the station, jump in your next fitted Raven and be back at the gate inside 5 minutes. And the same police who blew your ship away will protect you! It's kind of ironic that its harder to faction issues that come from running NPC agent missions than it is to fix sec status caused by hunting players! Anyway, to try and be constructive, will an osprey with lots of extenders be enough to survive this kind of thing, or do i need to look into training for transports (although I might as well train BS instead actually, I dont generally haul large volumes).
Earthan	Posted - 2006.03.01 22:27:00 - [134] Originally by: The Enslaver Originally by: Sixtyniner Empire is not suppose to be safe; only safer. Says it all. Actually you are very wrong, 05-1.0 are to be tottaly save from unwiling pvp. ******** "...And thereÆs even some evil mothers Well theyÆre gonna tell you that everything is just dirt ...And that, yÆknow, children are the only ones who blush!And that,life is just to die..."
GigaIndy	Posted - 2006.03.01 22:29:00 - [135] I think the most important question here, is not " omg when is ccp going to stop this" Cause they aint gonna stop it *****es. But, " If a t2 bpo dies in one of these sucideing attempts, is it going to be reseeded into lottery?" Otherwise expect t2 prices to slowly go up.
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.03.01 22:29:00 - [136] if you want to be totally safe, stay docked. its the ultimate risk vs reward. the less risk, the less reward (unless you just escrow surf). you can haul that stuff of yours in packages under the value of what it would cost to suicide, you can get a scout or an escort (escort doesn't neccesarily mean guns, it could mean another hauler to decloak first, so it gets scanned instead of you. it could also be a hauler who grabs your loot if you DO get popped) you have the tools to deal with these things, don't ask CCP to deal with them for you sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:\|. - Teblin
dantes inferno	Posted - 2006.03.01 22:30:00 - [137] Edited by: dantes inferno on 01/03/2006 22:32:04 Quote: because many people are not aware and want a more recent answer. the current rules isn't important. this is the desire to change something, and to know ccp's current intentions. the same as they ahve been since day 1 of eve..the same as they will be until the day the server shut...do you think the is the first of even 101st post of this nature to change things..CCP will never catre to the caerbear to the extent you want them to...it will break the games spirit. so you and your bretherin can cry and whine all you like..eve is what it is and always will be, high sec ganking has always been a facotr of eve and always will be, if you people spent half as much time defending against it in game as you do whining about it in forums..it wouldnt be a problem. Quote: 05-1.0 are to be tottaly save from unwiling pvp. ummm no...i could meet you in 1.0 now and then force you to pvp by attacking you...yes i would loose my ship..but still you would not of been safe from unwilling pvp..that is a misconception held by far to many of eves caerbears. _____ This is a Stain Alliance Fighter. It is protecting the assets of Stain Alliance, and may attack anyone it perceives as a threat, Threat Level: Trigglarist Fundermentalist
Turas Kain	Posted - 2006.03.01 22:39:00 - [138] Originally by: Nimie Edited by: Nimie on 01/03/2006 22:17:10 Originally by: Turas Kain How's about we just say - CCP made the game. CCP knows this has been happening for a long time. CCP have not changed it. Seems to me they have already answered. that answer has already been used and that old answer is unsatisfactory. a more recent response is desired. A more recent response? If CCP decide it is not as intended I think we'll notice - because they'll change it. It really is that simple However I digress, its been a while since I spoke to my wall.
John Torakiba	Posted - 2006.03.01 22:39:00 - [139] Not that I really care, I have my own ways of dealing with this issue, some of which have already been mentioned, but seems to me that the penalty for this should be upped a bit, maybe if you attack first and kill a ship in high sec. Empire space, Concord pods you. While it won't stop this tactic, it will up the penalty. I also like the idea that insurance should not be paid on a ship that is blown up by Concord.
Nimie	Posted - 2006.03.01 22:46:00 - [140] this isn't about catering to carebears. maybe i am unclear, but i've said it for a while. i want someone to at least admit something is weird. i have said it somewhere in another post. i am an all around char. i am a carebear when i feel like beinging a carebare. i am a pirate when i feel like being a pirate. i have blown people up. i have ransomed people. this is why i know what kind of money pirates make. at the current time, i cannot see anything but empire piracy being much more profitable and easier then low sec piracy. if this is true, it only means pirates will change their hunting grounds from low sec to empire. given time, it means that both pirate's and carebear's home and working area will be in empire and low sec will be held by nooone. i truly feel that this is not ccp's intent. this is why i want a response.
Haks'he Lirky	Posted - 2006.03.01 22:46:00 - [141] Originally by: Nimie i enjoy this aspect of the game though. i enjoy arguing and "balancing." side note: can't cargo scans go through cargo containers? i've heard stories that go both ways. Only balancing I could see make sense would be to skip payment of insurance if ship is killed by Concord, simple and to the point, however that might just increase the value of the cargo needed for the gank. Other "balances" would reduce the freedom available in this sandbox of ours. Scanners see through containers, but not through courier wraps.
Nimie	Posted - 2006.03.01 22:53:00 - [142] Edited by: Nimie on 01/03/2006 22:53:59 Originally by: Turas Kain Originally by: Nimie Edited by: Nimie on 01/03/2006 22:17:10 Originally by: Turas Kain How's about we just say - CCP made the game. CCP knows this has been happening for a long time. CCP have not changed it. Seems to me they have already answered. that answer has already been used and that old answer is unsatisfactory. a more recent response is desired. A more recent response? If CCP decide it is not as intended I think we'll notice - because they'll change it. It really is that simple However I digress, its been a while since I spoke to my wall. ccp doesn't play their game. they rely on their customers. that is also why we have a test server. as the voice of their customers can change, so does the order and plans they have for the game as well as ccp's actual voice.
dantes inferno	Posted - 2006.03.01 22:54:00 - [143] Quote: i cannot see anything but empire piracy being much more profitable and easier then low sec piracy. if this is true, it only means pirates will change their hunting grounds from low sec to empire. given time, it means that both pirate's and carebear's home and working area will be in empire and low sec will be held by nooone. i truly feel that this is not ccp's intent. this is why i want a response the problem here is not the game emchanics or the pirates...but the caerbears who refuse to leave 0.5+ pirates will go to where their prey is...the face high sec is becoming more profitable for pirates is simple. 1) lot more people there 2) a lot more dumb people there 3) People have a false sence of security..will travel with highly expensive stuf and no defence..often AFK this leave the pirate with 2 choices 1) low sec with a few people in...most of whom log out the second you enter local..very difficult to find pray or make a profit 2) high sec..abundance of pray...easy targets...lot of profit. this is basicaly the high secs caerbears attitude coming back to bite them, mainly caused by the false myth that the people who hide in NPC starter corps have created, that the second you enter low sec...pirated will gank u concoed style...which is amusing as this shows that eve balances itself out in some respect. _____ This is a Stain Alliance Fighter. It is protecting the assets of Stain Alliance, and may attack anyone it perceives as a threat, Threat Level: Trigglarist Fundermentalist
Haks'he Lirky	Posted - 2006.03.01 22:55:00 - [144] Originally by: Nimie it only means pirates will change their hunting grounds from low sec to empire. given time, it means that both pirate's and carebear's home and working area will be in empire and low sec will be held by nooone. In the end industrialists will learn to take care what ships they fly, this will make empire ganking harder and harder by the minute, ultimately making this current sweetspot hard to pick. Expecially since to many piwats will be in empire. Suppy and demand will not be met in the end if this would be the new pirate stomping ground. Originally by: Nimie i truly feel that this is not ccp's intent. this is why i want a response. Three years almost and this has been going on, I blew up my first indy full of zydrine during the first summer of EvE. I doubt CCP's stance on the matter has changed.
Karash Amerius	Posted - 2006.03.01 22:59:00 - [145] Just for the record however.... If CONCORD ganks you, I agree that you should not get an insurance payout. That is a fair rule I would say. However, I would not apply this to any Empire Navy (due to standings, etc)
Fuujin	Posted - 2006.03.01 23:04:00 - [146] Edited by: Fuujin on 01/03/2006 23:04:08 All for having the right to suicide gank(even if i may never be on that side) however I also agree that the suicide gankers should not get an insurance payout if they are ganked by concord for their actions. _______________ The sword has to be more than a simple weapon; it has to be an answer to life's questions
w0rmy	Posted - 2006.03.01 23:04:00 - [147] Originally by: Nimie that answer has already been used and that old answer is unsatisfactory. a more recent response is desired. If the rules havent changed, no need for a more recent responce is required. It has been stated by CCP staff that: To set the record straight, we can and do ban players for griefplaying. Note that attacking another player is not griefplaying. But, while attacking another player is not forbidden anywhere in EVE, excessive use of disposable alts (as judged by a GM), the use of exploits or the abuse of trial accounts to grief players for your own profit without risk of retribution will not be tolerated. We have banned players for what we deem to be griefing before and we will continue to do so. Abuse of trial accounts can and will lead to a ban on your main account(s). I hope this clears up some questions about this subject. GM Arkanon Senior Game Master Of course people whine, its cause your sig sucks
w0rmy	Posted - 2006.03.01 23:05:00 - [148] Posted - 2005.01.06 12:21:00 - [Link]I just want to add to what GM Arkanon said here earlir. What is an alt? It's usually the other 2 characters on your account, where you have your main character. These are commonly used for spying, market monitoring, nubbing agent missions in empire and some use them for smaller alternate tasks such as a manufacturer, miner, hauler and actually train them some. Now, there are also other kind of "alts", which are on another account, these are very common for advanced players and really shouldn't be called "alts" at all - since the other account also has 2 spots besides the main char for the real "alts". The second account "alt" is more like "your *** away from home" IMO. You know, you use her when you aren't using your "homey *". However, they are still called "alts" since they aren't really _you_. Then there is the trial account ho and recycled alt ho's. You wouldn't have sex with her even if she only took five dallah and had a nice accent to go with it. But you use if for stuff you wouldn't dare use your main for cause you are such a coward which can't deal with the consequences. Ok, then thats settled with mains, * away from home, alts and the ho's. Now, lets expand on the suicide kestrels with these four types of characters: - Your main. Never used for suicide kestrels or anything resembling a suicide [insertcheapshiphere]. Never used for posting on the forums. Never used to gank in empire. (Except the real pirates and merceneries, which are proud of their profession, live and suffer with the consequences and have the scars to prove it, like -10 in sec rating) - Your * away from home. This one is usually the pirate, or your other carebear agent running self since your main is a pirate. Occasionally post on the forum to give your mains forum posts more credibility. Still no suicide stuff, you don't want to ruin chars sec rating to get some cheap 3M mining turret. - Your alts. Sometimes used for suicide kestrels and various other lame suicide attempts. Always used for posting on the forum. Used for ganking in empire and shooting Convoys. Often used as smaller specialized characters (trader, spy, hauler, miner) - Your ho's. Always used for suicide attacks. Always goes for the players that can't defend themselves against them, most of the time nubs which have no clue. Always used to post lame kill mails on the forums. Always used to say stuff you wouldn't even dare say out loud inside your closet cause your mom might still hear you swear. Commonly mistaken as an account which we can't trace back to the real owner and commonly thought as an account which we dont ban your main, your ho and your alts for. Under no circumstances is using ho's for killing anything else than griefing and abuse of trial and/or character system by recycling. Under all circumstances, all accounts traced to this account will be banned, usually without warning. I think that clears it up. If not here is the simple version: You can go kill people wherever you want if you take the consequences like a man (or a woman).** You can't if you use ho's to abuse the system. Oh, if you are considering that since you have been creating ho's for yourself or a friend through the buddy program, yes that nagging feeling about your main might get banned for it is quite warranted From these two posts, it is apparent that suiciding ships is NOT an exploit! Of course people whine, its cause your sig sucks
w0rmy	Posted - 2006.03.01 23:08:00 - [149] Originally by: Nimie i truly feel that this is not ccp's intent. this is why i want a response. Read my two posts above, you will clearly see what 'CCPs intent' is Of course people whine, its cause your sig sucks
Corp Scammer	Posted - 2006.03.01 23:10:00 - [150] its been discussed before instas - ECM modules - resistance plating = armour extenders - if moving t2 BPOs or other high value items use a covert ops or cloaker. Etc Etc ignore this advice get ganked in empire
F'nog	Posted - 2006.03.01 23:12:00 - [151] Originally by: Nimie ccp doesn't play their game. I think all of the devs and their many accounts, I think some of them have even more than CYVOK, will disagree. Originally by: Bl4zer But, cmon, this is the Eve forums, we don't let facts get in the way of pointless speculation.
F'nog	Posted - 2006.03.01 23:35:00 - [152] And for those really, really, REALLY upset about losing their stuff when they get ganked, maybe this will help put things in perspective. Originally by: Bl4zer But, cmon, this is the Eve forums, we don't let facts get in the way of pointless speculation.
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2006.03.01 23:49:00 - [153] Originally by: Nimie ccp doesn't play their game. Oh but they do.
Xio2	Posted - 2006.03.01 23:55:00 - [154] im going to fly using containers lol. thats smart. -------------- now this is the way a sig should be Xio2
Asane	Posted - 2006.03.02 00:07:00 - [155] Well turnschuh has earned the Trollbait award of the week. Getting a thread to hold this long and not even talk in it
jokerb	Posted - 2006.03.02 00:24:00 - [156] Originally by: Ikvar Edited by: Ikvar on 01/03/2006 18:14:20 Originally by: Tobiaz People losing T2 BPO's to a empire suicide gank didn't deserve them in the first place. Couldn't have said it better myself. If you're moving a T2 BPO that takes up no cargo room in a ship that can be killed before CONCORD/Sentry intervention in highsec, you are an idiot. I'm a NOOB. I belong to a NOOB corporation. We transport even the 30000 isk BPO's with escorts in armed and armored vehicles. If a noob in a nooblet corp. knows better and takes appropriate precautions for the simplest of tranfers, what was the OP and other morons thinking as they lose high value cargo to pirates? You want safe areas? Go play tiddly winks, EVE is for adults.
Nimie	Posted - 2006.03.02 01:16:00 - [157] for adults, almost all of the insults have come from adults. not to mention many of you adults have reading problems and have continuouly spamed vague empty rhetoric even after it was point out for you. things like "this is a pvp game" is called empty rhetoric. let's make it so you can pod people while they're in stations. that should be ok since "nowhere in eve is safe" and "this is a pvp game". let's make it permadeath too since "eve is hardcore" and "eve is suppose to be brutal". Originally by: Nimie it only means pirates will change their hunting grounds from low sec to empire. given time, it means that both pirate's and carebear's home and working area will be in empire and low sec will be held by nooone. i truly feel that this is not ccp's intentthis is why i want a response. i can't understand how people can get so off tangent so i'll keep it in small simple and as few words as possible. 1)where is a pirate's work place, roughly? there's really only three types of answers for this a)empire>low sec, meaning empire should be more profitable than low sec b)empire<low sec, meaning empire should be less profitable than low sec c)empire=low sec, meaning empire should be as equally profitable as low sec at the current time, empire is the most profitable. if you are ok with how things are now, then you belive ccp wants a). otherwise, b) and c) means you belive ccp will change the current system.
Erotic Irony	Posted - 2006.03.02 01:36:00 - [158] It is a foregone conclusion that the majority of players on the forums are extremely defensive to the point of irrelevance; parroting the same tired risk v reward rhetoric and pirate v carebear distinctions as if they actually believe it. Lets not forget the false analogy crowd. Ignore them. As has been said, a covert ops frogate with a covert cloak is among the best answers. Take heart though. As the crime and punishment board illustrates, the victims will have the last laugh when the aggressor's security status plummets and the killers complain about the difficulty in regaining it.
Professor McFly	Posted - 2006.03.02 01:46:00 - [159] Originally by: Nimie 1)where is a pirate's work place, roughly? there's really only three types of answers for this a)empire>low sec, meaning empire should be more profitable than low sec b)empire<low sec, meaning empire should be less profitable than low sec c)empire=low sec, meaning empire should be as equally profitable as low sec at the current time, empire is the most profitable. if you are ok with how things are now, then you belive ccp wants a). otherwise, b) and c) means you belive ccp will change the current system. Where is a bank robber's most profitable place of work? In the middle of a rich bustling metropolis, or out in the lawless deserts where most of their prey has learned to pack heavy weapons themselves? Concord is not like the real world police, all they care about is punishing unlawful warfare. They aren't gonna stop someone in a noob corp picking up loot cans, just as they aren't gonna investigate your corp's assets theft for you and catch the bad guy. High sec may be more profitable for certain pirates, but that is a case of natural selection, NOT a game-breaking imbalance as you suggest. The tools for prevention are there. It's like saying cars should be taken off the road because 5% of people don't wear seat belts. __________________ Retard's handbook
Jhonen Senraedi	Posted - 2006.03.02 01:56:00 - [160] Having been a victim of a suicide ganker near Jita myself in the past..lost some faction gear...and bpc's i'd purchased...and yes I was hauling them in n unfitted Badger because ..a)it was there..and b)I thought I'd be relatively safe. I lost oh..80-100 mill...went back to get some of the gear in my Reaper..but guy's alt or mate had nabbed it. Ok..Now to the point...Ganking in High sec may be pretty low etc...BUT..It's part of the game...and it spices it up as it makes you realise that there could be danger anywhere.So..NO..Ganking in high sec should not be stopped... The things that should be applied though are.. 1/No Insurance payouts to those deshipped by Concord for whatever reason...new or old..all know the consequences of aggression in high sec..It's in the tutorial. 2/Possibly some form of criminal flag for any looters of said gear other than attacker..to prevent looting by alts(And definitely by npc corp types..as you can't even war dec them.) 3/When I got ganked the response time of Concord was a bit slow...but thats being fixed in the Blood patch...so no need to dwell on that. 4/Perhaps relate sec loss to system sec level...lower losses in low and mid sec compared to high sec..rather than a set loss per victim...that way there'd be more opportunity to kill in low-sec and mid sec...before having to work off status penalty or retreat from empire higher sec areas...thus more opportunities for the hardcore pirates and PvPer's in low-mid sec. Oh and to those who said fit a ship for speed...doesn't always work...recently lost a slasher with an arc-jet and an engine injector..doing 1150-1200m/s or more...when scanned..targetted..shot at twice..trying to get through a gate...so speed and small sig doesn't always work.. Bottom Line ..Keep high sec ganking as it makes the game more interesting but..try and make it a bit more logical..especially with regards to insurance payouts..or rather not paying them out.
mrg29	Posted - 2006.03.02 01:57:00 - [161] Originally by: Nimie for adults, almost all of the insults have come from adults. not to mention many of you adults have reading problems and have continuouly spamed vague empty rhetoric even after it was point out for you. things like "this is a pvp game" is called empty rhetoric. let's make it so you can pod people while they're in stations. that should be ok since "nowhere in eve is safe" and "this is a pvp game". let's make it permadeath too since "eve is hardcore" and "eve is suppose to be brutal". Originally by: Nimie it only means pirates will change their hunting grounds from low sec to empire. given time, it means that both pirate's and carebear's home and working area will be in empire and low sec will be held by nooone. i truly feel that this is not ccp's intentthis is why i want a response. i can't understand how people can get so off tangent so i'll keep it in small simple and as few words as possible. 1)where is a pirate's work place, roughly? there's really only three types of answers for this a)empire>low sec, meaning empire should be more profitable than low sec b)empire<low sec, meaning empire should be less profitable than low sec c)empire=low sec, meaning empire should be as equally profitable as low sec at the current time, empire is the most profitable. if you are ok with how things are now, then you belive ccp wants a). otherwise, b) and c) means you belive ccp will change the current system. i'm not really sure from reading most of your posts what point you are trying to make in this thread. u seem to be making wild assumptions about where it is more profitable to pirate and what the margins are without once trying to back up any of those statements. simple fact is piracy exists in high sec because players in high sec do not tend to take the same precautions that those who live in low sec do. in addition the number of targets not taking precautions in high sec available to said pirates, carrying high value cargoes, will significantly exceed those in low sec. pirates will hunt where they have targets they can attack. if said targets do not use the available game mechanics to make it more difficult for the pirates and make themselves viable targets by carrying a cargo of sufficient value to make it worthwhile for the attckers to sacrifice a ship then that is the players own problem. the game gives sufficient options to avoid this happening and ccp have recently added functionality to allow possible targets the option of taking "free" revenge not only on te attacker themselves but on whoever had looted the can. i agree wholly with the principle of forfeiting insurance payments if you are destroyed by concord for attacking a player in high sec, this however will not stop high sec piracy only make the margins different in terms of possible profit. -
Lisento Slaven	Posted - 2006.03.02 02:14:00 - [162] Originally by: turnschuh this is just plain stupid, you cannot transport stuff in empire worth more then 200mil since you just get blown up buy a lame suicide BS. make passive scanning an aggression. make cargo scanning an aggression. fix concord. this is not risk vs reward, empire is not save anymore and CCP is just ignoring it. Passive scanning - No. Why should you get in trouble for scanning someone? Cargo scanning - No. Why should you get in trouble for scanning someone? Fix concord. - In what way do you think its broken? Eve is still "risk vs reward" and you took a risk by moving stuff in a very crappy ship and well, your risk left you in the hole because someone else, took a GREATER RISK to put you there. Empire was never safe and never will be as long as people are allowed to activate weapons in Empire. I say activate weapons because you don't have to lock on to someone in order to use a smartbomb. I respond to the original post because everyone else has gone off on a tangent and things are no longer productive (my opinion seperate of the topic).
Agent Kenshin	Posted - 2006.03.02 02:26:00 - [163] Originally by: Nimie Edited by: Nimie on 01/03/2006 22:53:59 Originally by: Turas Kain Originally by: Nimie Edited by: Nimie on 01/03/2006 22:17:10 Originally by: Turas Kain How's about we just say - CCP made the game. CCP knows this has been happening for a long time. CCP have not changed it. Seems to me they have already answered. that answer has already been used and that old answer is unsatisfactory. a more recent response is desired. A more recent response? If CCP decide it is not as intended I think we'll notice - because they'll change it. It really is that simple However I digress, its been a while since I spoke to my wall. ccp doesn't play their game. they rely on their customers. that is also why we have a test server. as the voice of their customers can change, so does the order and plans they have for the game as well as ccp's actual voice. Oh you really think they dont play their game??? Theyve stated numerious times they do play. Originally by: MAXSuicide only carebears call pvpers 'greifers' ehehehh....
w0rmy	Posted - 2006.03.02 02:32:00 - [164] Originally by: Nimie at the current time, empire is the most profitable. Youre joking right? the most profitable crime is the crime that takes place, in the places with the most money. I never would have guessed that Of course people whine, its cause your sig sucks
Peregrine	Posted - 2006.03.02 02:36:00 - [165] You put a target on your nose, I am sure as hell going to punch you in it. You dont want to be ganked in empire? Then Dont fly 10bill in BPO around afk in a 200k hauler. It realy isnt rocket science.
Lienzo	Posted - 2006.03.02 02:43:00 - [166] Restriction of insurance won't really make much difference. The 30-80% is recovery that would be surrendered would still pale in comparison to the benefit which prompts the attacker to go for the big goal. It would just be a complicated-to-implement system that would result in more lag in post-kill scenarios. All you need is secure cans/shrink wrap. Those give you more cargo anyhow. Finis. Nobody thinks about all the hard, boring work the poor peglegger has to do out in 0.0 space, and the assets needed to do it, just to be able to go back to his job in empire. If we must be tied to empire, and to npcs no less, then make some means of restoring sec in empire or losec. Npcs should all give equal status gain every 15minutes. It sucks being knocked out of the action for days or weeks at a time.
Jhonen Senraedi	Posted - 2006.03.02 02:54:00 - [167] Maybe Implementing Insurance Nullification would be harder work..but a lot of people here seem to think it's a decent compromise. As far as margins changing and ganking still going on..well that's fair enough...but a higher margin would a)reduce the frequency of such attacks..and b)protect the newer players....if that margin was pushed up to 200 mill to make aprofit instead of 100.... As for the older players hauling BPO's..and T2 ones at that....well....shame on you..you should know better!
Gamer4liff	Posted - 2006.03.02 02:56:00 - [168] Do not move expensive stuff in a badger 2, it's that simple. The main issue however is using alts for suicide kills and dodgeing the sec hit on the main, but I don't think there is really anything CCP can do about it.
Nimie	Posted - 2006.03.02 02:57:00 - [169] Originally by: w0rmy Originally by: Nimie at the current time, empire is the most profitable. Youre joking right? the most profitable crime is the crime that takes place, in the places with the most money. I never would have guessed that it's time to go outside. really. Originally by: Peregrine You put a target on your nose, I am sure as hell going to punch you in it. You dont want to be ganked in empire? Then Dont fly 10bill in BPO around afk in a 200k hauler. It realy isnt rocket science. noone has said 10b in a long time though. it's sweet 100m. Originally by: Lienzo Restriction of insurance won't really make much difference. The 30-80% is recovery that would be surrendered would still pale in comparison to the benefit which prompts the attacker to go for the big goal. It would just be a complicated-to-implement system that would result in more lag in post-kill scenarios. All you need is secure cans/shrink wrap. Those give you more cargo anyhow. Finis. Nobody thinks about all the hard, boring work the poor peglegger has to do out in 0.0 space, and the assets needed to do it, just to be able to go back to his job in empire. If we must be tied to empire, and to npcs no less, then make some means of restoring sec in empire or losec. Npcs should all give equal status gain every 15minutes. It sucks being knocked out of the action for days or weeks at a time. but it protects the minigoals. it shouldn't be hard to add either. actually, it should be very easy to add. last time i asked, someone ratting in 0.0 said he did 2sec a day, so it shouldn't be that bad. that's good for 10 kills.
Lienzo	Posted - 2006.03.02 02:58:00 - [170] Originally by: Gamer4liff Do not move expensive stuff in a badger 2, it's that simple. The main issue however is using alts for suicide kills and dodgeing the sec hit on the main, but I don't think there is really anything CCP can do about it. Yep. They get banned all the time as far as I understand it. Obviously, we don't get to hear from those that are banned.
w0rmy	Posted - 2006.03.02 03:36:00 - [171] Originally by: Nimie it's time to go outside. really. Right after you get a clue. Really. Of course people whine, its cause your sig sucks
Rocco Siffredi	Posted - 2006.03.02 03:39:00 - [172] Its clear there are a lot of strong views here. I think to make it so any non consentual combat in hi sec impossible (ie you can only blow a ship up in 0.5+ if u at war or have kill rights) is just damn stupid and should never happen in eve. This game is rated number one on mmorpg.com and the freedom like this is one of the reasons. Dont turn it into another bland MMO. However its ridiculously easy to suicide gank. You dont really need that much skill to do it, just a few friends, some spare ships and a bit of patience. The solution is to make it harder. Perhaps a much bigger security penalty. A few failed attempts in an evening and no more going to hi sec for you. Also definitely no payout on insurance. If its risk vs reward, then the risk should be a lot more. How about concord fining you? Perhaps the fine increases if you break the "law" many times in the same system. How about fining the players corp? What about the fine going to the ganked player in "damages"? ATM there is more risk to the hauler than to the pirate, and the balance of risk should be more towards the pirate.
jokerb	Posted - 2006.03.02 03:43:00 - [173] Edited by: jokerb on 02/03/2006 03:44:04 Originally by: Nimie for adults, almost all of the insults have come from adults. not to mention many of you adults have reading problems and have continuouly spamed vague empty rhetoric even after it was point out for you. things like "this is a pvp game" is called empty rhetoric. let's make it so you can pod people while they're in stations. that should be ok since "nowhere in eve is safe" and "this is a pvp game". let's make it permadeath too since "eve is hardcore" and "eve is suppose to be brutal". Originally by: Nimie it only means pirates will change their hunting grounds from low sec to empire. given time, it means that both pirate's and carebear's home and working area will be in empire and low sec will be held by nooone. i truly feel that this is not ccp's intentthis is why i want a response. i can't understand how people can get so off tangent so i'll keep it in small simple and as few words as possible. 1)where is a pirate's work place, roughly? there's really only three types of answers for this a)empire>low sec, meaning empire should be more profitable than low sec b)empire<low sec, meaning empire should be less profitable than low sec c)empire=low sec, meaning empire should be as equally profitable as low sec at the current time, empire is the most profitable. if you are ok with how things are now, then you belive ccp wants a). otherwise, b) and c) means you belive ccp will change the current system. Now speaking of rhetoric nice Strawman... The rules are in this case extremely vague and/or non-existent. In the absence of laws or governing bodies you should understand that you are responsible for your own safety at all times. Why is it necessary to affect a change for a minority opinion (if this thread is any indication 20 to 1 against your opinion Nimie). Now as far as my perceived insults, I do apologize as they detracted from my point which was I'm a nublet I know better, so should someone with a techII BPO. Whether the rules should be changed in the future is completely irrelavent, the rules as they stand today are what you and the OP need to think of as you undock. cheers (editted bc i'm a formatting moron, heehee)
Berrik Radhok	Posted - 2006.03.02 04:00:00 - [174] In my opinion, the problem with high sec ganking is not so much that you can do it, but that the ganker's friend in a newbie corp can fly his indie in and steal your stuff and there's nothing you can do about it.
Avon	Posted - 2006.03.02 09:29:00 - [175] Originally by: Berrik Radhok , but that the ganker's friend in a newbie corp can fly his indie in and steal your stuff and there's nothing you can do about it. Huh? He brought a friend, and so teamwork > solo? Not exactly a newsflash. How about you bring a friend to get your stuff back? As to the insurance payout discussion, I will add this: If insurance is removed from ships killed by Concord, expect a very long thread for agent runners. We have seen threads in the past asking for friendly fire within gangs to be allowed, and it must be assumed that this is because agent runners are losing ships to Concord whilst running missions together. If insurance is removed from Concord kills (and I really don't care either way - I'm not sure it will make a substantial difference though) it should be in conjuntion with the introduction of the requested gang changes. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Usis Cat	Posted - 2006.03.02 10:09:00 - [176] I'm new to the game and I love how the system works, but to be honest I can not understand why CONCORD doesnÆt try to pickup the rests of the attacked ship, itÆs not realistic at all. IÆm not saying that CONCORD must do it always, but may be CCP can create a system based on the security level, something like space 1.0 -> 70%, 0.9 -> 60% à 0.4 can be 0% just like now. Just an idea
Avon	Posted - 2006.03.02 10:15:00 - [177] Originally by: Usis Cat I'm new to the game and I love how the system works, but to be honest I can not understand why CONCORD doesn’t try to pickup the rests of the attacked ship, it’s not realistic at all. I’m not saying that CONCORD must do it always, but may be CCP can create a system based on the security level, something like space 1.0 -> 70%, 0.9 -> 60% … 0.4 can be 0% just like now. Just an idea Why would they? They are there to stop the Empires blowing each-other to bits, not to collect trash. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Usis Cat	Posted - 2006.03.02 10:23:00 - [178] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Usis Cat I'm new to the game and I love how the system works, but to be honest I can not understand why CONCORD doesnÆt try to pickup the rests of the attacked ship, itÆs not realistic at all. IÆm not saying that CONCORD must do it always, but may be CCP can create a system based on the security level, something like space 1.0 -> 70%, 0.9 -> 60% à 0.4 can be 0% just like now. Just an idea Why would they? They are there to stop the Empires blowing each-other to bits, not to collect trash. Well, they are doing more things than that; they destroy the ships who start an aggression so collect (not always) the jettison things looks like quite reasonable. Anyway IÆm not really upset about that, I donÆt have much money or valuable things atm
RawCode	Posted - 2006.03.02 19:01:00 - [179] All I know is, if a saw an indy with 200M of cargo in it, I would suicide gank it. And I am not even a pirate. There is plenty of non-pirates that would happily gank someone in empire if it ment they could get 200M out of it.
MachZERO	Posted - 2006.03.02 19:12:00 - [180] Originally by: turnschuh this is just plain stupid, you cannot transport stuff in empire worth more then 200mil since you just get blown up buy a lame suicide BS. make passive scanning an aggression. make cargo scanning an aggression. fix concord. this is not risk vs reward, empire is not save anymore and CCP is just ignoring it. You are not completely acurate... I've traveled from jita to rens to amarr then back to my home system with over 8 billion isk worth of fun in the back of my mastodon. You just have to know WHEN to do it and WHO to look out for. Beyond that, you are minmatar get a mastodon and fit invul fields and shield boosters to it. Problem pretty much solved for 98% of the suicide BS's in eve. For everything else, use a freighter. It's not an issue of it being unfair. It's a matter of you not having the right tools for the job.
Gray Carmicheal	Posted - 2006.03.02 19:24:00 - [181] Originally by: MachZERO Originally by: turnschuh this is just plain stupid, you cannot transport stuff in empire worth more then 200mil since you just get blown up buy a lame suicide BS. make passive scanning an aggression. make cargo scanning an aggression. fix concord. this is not risk vs reward, empire is not save anymore and CCP is just ignoring it. You are not completely acurate... I've traveled from jita to rens to amarr then back to my home system with over 8 billion isk worth of fun in the back of my mastodon. You just have to know WHEN to do it and WHO to look out for. Beyond that, you are minmatar get a mastodon and fit invul fields and shield boosters to it. Problem pretty much solved for 98% of the suicide BS's in eve. For everything else, use a freighter. It's not an issue of it being unfair. It's a matter of you not having the right tools for the job. Can you tell me the next time you're passing through Ours, please? I'll be gentle. I promise. My sig was CONCORDOKKENED. I blame Wrangler H4x.
Nosferatu Zodd	Posted - 2006.03.02 19:25:00 - [182] Cache cleared.
Carter Burke	Posted - 2006.03.02 19:30:00 - [183] Originally by: Alpha Centauri Makes sense now, sounds like an expensive occupation Not when insurance pays back the cost of your ship, and particularly not when you drive a set of caracals. 15M and a non-agro'd alt? There's no risk there. Period. CB
FXSlacker	Posted - 2006.03.02 19:31:00 - [184] Why not have Concord cover my can for say 15 minutes? If the I got robbed and the rat was caught/blown away I would expect to recover my goods in RL from the police. Anyone other than corp, gang, or the original carrier gets shot at. The catch is the rat still might be able to take the abuse and recover the can. That sounds fair doesn't it? Slacker
Avon	Posted - 2006.03.02 19:33:00 - [185] Originally by: Carter Burke There's no risk there. Period. CB You don't know what will drop. You might get nothing. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
MrMorph	Posted - 2006.03.02 19:35:00 - [186] Ok, heres the solution. [Please insert 1 million isk to my wallet before reading on] CCP: Make a string of 1.1 systems. In these systems the following rules apply: - You cannot have a gun fitted, or you will be unable to enter the system. - You cannot agress in any way, no ew, no nothing. - Haulers will have 9000000 armor hp. - There will be no markets, no research or production facility All OMGIGOTKILLEDCCPBANTHEMNOWIAMLEETANDCANNOTDIE people can roam frely around in their haulers with a tech2 bpo in, without worrying, braging bout their cool load. OMFGJIZUZKTHNXGOSTFUANDTAKEACACKE for gods sake...... ---------------------------------------------- No sig due to the 1byte 1 pixel limit.
dantes inferno	Posted - 2006.03.02 19:38:00 - [187] Quote: Why not have Concord cover my can for say 15 minutes? If the I got robbed and the rat was caught/blown away I would expect to recover my goods in RL from the police. Anyone other than corp, gang, or the original carrier gets shot at. The catch is the rat still might be able to take the abuse and recover the can. That sounds fair doesn't it? nope it dosent...unles the pirates can have a npc hauler to pick up any loot..why should you on your own have the benefits that the pirate gets by using team work,...bring an escort ganged with you..if you die they can the kill the person taking your loot. teamwprk is always > than solo play in eve. try using it. _____ This is a Stain Alliance Fighter. It is protecting the assets of Stain Alliance, and may attack anyone it perceives as a threat, Threat Level: Trigglarist Fundermentalist
Carter Burke	Posted - 2006.03.02 19:44:00 - [188] Originally by: robacz Imho its ok that someone can kill you if he is willing to lose his ship, but it is not ok that Concord watch how someone steals cargo from killed ship - Concord should collect it and send to legal owner. Its like policeman witnessed a murder, arrested murderer and let his friend to steal victim's car. Makes no sense. I'd even go so far as to have the "evidence seized" and poofed. Either way, this would make a lot more sense, and would eliminate the exploit of having a non-ganged alt who didn't draw Concord agro picking up loot. As it is, it's like the cops just don't give two ****s about the bagman. CB
Carter Burke	Posted - 2006.03.02 19:47:00 - [189] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Carter Burke There's no risk there. Period. CB You don't know what will drop. You might get nothing. Pfft. That's bull***. I can do math, and when you see critical mass in a hauler, you know what's worth hitting and what's not. Attacker loses nothing - he's got a pack of cruisers and a stack of launchers back in station that might* have cost him 25m. CB
Iberi	Posted - 2006.03.02 19:50:00 - [190] Originally by: Carter Burke Originally by: Alpha Centauri Makes sense now, sounds like an expensive occupation Not when insurance pays back the cost of your ship, and particularly not when you drive a set of caracals. 15M and a non-agro'd alt? There's no risk there. Period. CB Dude! Try a bit PvP, You will understand meaning of "no risk there".
tbow10	Posted - 2006.03.02 19:53:00 - [191] Haha learn to run. They lose there isk on there suicide gank. And if you new how to run you could probly live and watch them die.
J3ST3R	Posted - 2006.03.02 19:59:00 - [192] As some of the guys have said Investing in freighters and transport ships are ideal ways to increase your chances of surviving suicide attack squads. Both of these methods are quite expensive and intensive interms of skill training but anyone moving 200m in 1 trip should have the income for the T2 hauler. A simple, cheap, and relatively short training time solution would be shield extenders. I fly an Iteron Mk V and can get 3100 shields whith the extenders fitted and have 5 nanofibres in the low slots decreasing time for warp alignment and increasing overall maximum velocity. Putting all your eggs in one basket makes for a large omlette.
Waldo Barnstormer	Posted - 2006.03.02 19:59:00 - [193] learn to run through a warp scrambler? actually i agree with the op's suggestion of making cargo scanning an act of aggression.. thats like someone coming up to you on the street and goin through your pockets so they can decide whether they should mug you or not. but also, no.. empire space isn't meant to be completely safe, we know.. im sure there's 7 pages of ppl saying that (i didn't bother to read all 7 pages) doesn't make it any easier to bear when someone can use an alt in an indy to nick ya stuff. (no it hasn't happened to me, ever, seriously - ppl always assume it has when i support nerfing empire ganking) loose = "not rigidly fastened or securely attached" \| lose = "fail to win"
Durvaul	Posted - 2006.03.02 19:59:00 - [194] Originally by: hired goon Owned. Your an ass, don't rise above yourself nublet Empire should be unsafe to travllers and yes scanning should be agression, u are locking and doing sumthing PVPers in this thread shut up This Sig May Contain Voilent Messages that Only A Trained Spy Of Assassin Can See, mmkay?
Gray Carmicheal	Posted - 2006.03.02 20:05:00 - [195] Originally by: Durvaul Originally by: hired goon Owned. Your an ass, don't rise above yourself nublet Empire should be unsafe to travllers and yes scanning should be agression, u are locking and doing sumthing PVPers in this thread shut up Best post in here, hands down. Sir, your level of intellegence amazes me. Thank you for gracing this already hilarious thread with such an excellent post. And thank you for making me laugh until I wet myself. My sig was CONCORDOKKENED. I blame Wrangler H4x.
Maltrox	Posted - 2006.03.02 20:08:00 - [196] I can empathize with the OP. I remember losing my first ever industrial crammed to the gills with all my stuff. I remember losing my first fitted BC, packed "safely" in a Iteron V. Or so I thought. Yep, it got smoked to pieces. And yes, Ill admit I did petition. I received a rather rude reply which, by forum rules, I won't repeat here. However the senior GM that answered my customer service complaint and the initial petition itself did a lot more than anyone has ever done for me in Eve. He made me think of how to fly smarter. Not safer, smarter. With any battle knowledge is half the fight, sometimes more. No, I cannot put a microwarpdrive on my hauler. No, the 15km run from warp in point to the gate is any means short and most prone to getting nailed. This is what I did, in order: 1) Throw a fit and scream my Minmatar butt off for almost three hours. 2) Sucked back a good few bottles of water 3) Made a game plan - Mining gives me minerals. I can sell the ore, the minerals, or use the minerals to rebuild my own ship, somewhat "free" of charge. - Ratting gives me loot and bounties. I can save up my new iskies, melt the loot down and return to 3A. - My corpmates, when approached calmly and with good offers will on occassion donate iskies, needed fittings or the whole kit. 4) Educate myself about the game some more. I realized I can fit ECM jammers. That didn't work out as a hauler takes a long time to lock back it's target for these to be effective. Then I found out about cans, armor tanking and shield tanking. Yep, it's doable in a hauler. The fractions of seconds of difference between a Tech I Mammoth versus a Tech I Mammoth with what I call "smart fittings" can save your butt. If you get that extra HP or velocity bonus... Concord might just smoke your agressor before he smokes you... Or... You might hit the gate first. I learned the same way as the OP did. Trial and error. But you know what? I ganked that pirate back five hours later. And I felt good.
Kyozoku	Posted - 2006.03.02 20:10:00 - [197] What was up with all the suiciders yesterday? All the hub systems where red on map.
zincol	Posted - 2006.03.02 20:12:00 - [198] Originally by: turnschuh seams you all need to loose 10bil t2 BPOs first before you get a clue how stupid this "empire security" is at the moment. Your a spanner if u transport T2 bpos in an Hauler. Shuttle ftw?
Morbid AngelLust	Posted - 2006.03.02 20:12:00 - [199] Edited by: Morbid AngelLust on 02/03/2006 20:17:44 Learn how to accually play the game right....then complain. Did you have bms? no? well then its your own damn fault. By the way what the hell are you doing with 10bil in BPOs in and inty?? Did you have an escort? You are at fault here no one else, quit whining.
Princess Crook	Posted - 2006.03.02 20:17:00 - [200] Too much to read in this thread - so didn't read it all. One point in here I agree with though. If you're ship was killed by Concord because you violated the law - insuranse money should not be paid. Stupid RL analogy: You try to outrun the police, you crash your car AND expect a fat insurance payout??? Just won't happen.
Imran	Posted - 2006.03.02 20:20:00 - [201] Dont cry on the forums, do something constructive and adapt. Have a escort present, buy a tech II hauler, whatever just adapt and maybe you wont get pwnt? Just a thought. EwokPoacher: Why hate Gallente? Blackest Sheep: Because we are beautiful
Lienzo	Posted - 2006.03.02 20:20:00 - [202] As a pirate, I suggest the following: Make can flagging expose you to fire from everyone for 15 minutes. Of course, should anyone choose to engage a flagged person, they should be able to return fire as they do now. Normal confusing gang/corp mechanics on concord-allowed engagement will still apply. This will make the looting assistant a little lighter on their toes. If an unrelated player spots a group scanning folks, he can just settle back and park his caracal near the waiting industrial and smile. Anyone with can flagging on their head that jettisons or drops a can is not entitled to further can-flagging protection during that period. Any pirate that takes offense to this or the idea that he might get OMG fired upon is simply a coward. You know how I know this is good? Because anything that results in more missile flying through the air is a good thing by default.
Morbid AngelLust	Posted - 2006.03.02 20:59:00 - [203]
Arshes Nei	Posted - 2006.03.02 21:06:00 - [204] Actually i couldnt stand reading the whole thread so sorry if it has already been said, but what would be the point in suicide killing someone in empire if your buddys couldnt loot his stuff without concord intervention. Wouldnt that mean the only reason left would then be griefing, and let me guess ... people then would say: lets completly forbid it, cause its only used for griefing. Btw just remember zombie corp and how they camped gates in 1.0? I wouldnt say high sec got any more dangerous the last years, quite the reverse . Please never ever transport anything valuable in a indy, what do you think those dudes are up to who sit at stations or gates in hub systems and scan passerbys? And i really really have trouble understanding why people dont atleast use instas when transporting highly valuable stuff in a ship that has paper for armor. So lets get this straight: You did not use instas You didnt have escorts You choose about the worst ship that you could find for the job You didnt think about shrinkwrapping your valuable cargo or atleast putting it in a secure container You got unlucky It really takes a combination of the above points to manage loosing stuff in high sec ... P.S. On the other hand it might be very funny if concord would retaliate against people trying to take stuff out of your containers. But i wouldnt get anything done if i spent my whole time in n00b corp systems spawning "free stuff welcome to eve"-containers .
Corp Mule	Posted - 2006.03.02 21:11:00 - [205] Edited by: Corp Mule on 02/03/2006 21:12:55 Originally by: Waldo Barnstormer learn to run through a warp scrambler? actually i agree with the op's suggestion of making cargo scanning an act of aggression.. thats like someone coming up to you on the street and goin through your pockets so they can decide whether they should mug you or not. but also, no.. empire space isn't meant to be completely safe, we know.. im sure there's 7 pages of ppl saying that (i didn't bother to read all 7 pages) doesn't make it any easier to bear when someone can use an alt in an indy to nick ya stuff. (no it hasn't happened to me, ever, seriously - ppl always assume it has when i support nerfing empire ganking) most intelligent post i have read in this thread, this would = your fix. I think it would be fair if you use some reality in it. Could hurt pirating in concord though ;)
Arshes Nei	Posted - 2006.03.02 21:20:00 - [206] Edited by: Arshes Nei on 02/03/2006 21:24:03 Originally by: Corp Mule Edited by: Corp Mule on 02/03/2006 21:12:55 Originally by: Waldo Barnstormer learn to run through a warp scrambler? actually i agree with the op's suggestion of making cargo scanning an act of aggression.. thats like someone coming up to you on the street and goin through your pockets so they can decide whether they should mug you or not. but also, no.. empire space isn't meant to be completely safe, we know.. im sure there's 7 pages of ppl saying that (i didn't bother to read all 7 pages) doesn't make it any easier to bear when someone can use an alt in an indy to nick ya stuff. (no it hasn't happened to me, ever, seriously - ppl always assume it has when i support nerfing empire ganking) most intelligent post i have read in this thread, this would = your fix. I think it would be fair if you use some reality in it. Could hurt pirating in concord though ;) Hm actually i would say its more like someone uses some x-ray device to check on you. Why the police doesnt get him? Well they cant see the x-rays I dont want to sound geeky, but the whole point of a passive scanner is ... umh ... well its passive, you dont notice it being used on you. And how about stopping to give advice on how to make highsec carebearland, its not that hard to implement that ccp needs your advice if they wanted it . Edit: To clarify, if it would be impossible to scan people in high sec how would you know which ship to shoot? And if your not supposed to know which ship to shoot you might aswell ask to restrict pvp to war and <0.5, cause all thats left without that would be pointless killing with huge drawbacks.
Essence Girl	Posted - 2006.03.02 21:37:00 - [207] Concord is not your babysitter. Grow up or go back to WoW.
Carter Burke	Posted - 2006.03.02 21:39:00 - [208] Originally by: Iberi Originally by: Carter Burke Originally by: Alpha Centauri Makes sense now, sounds like an expensive occupation Not when insurance pays back the cost of your ship, and particularly not when you drive a set of caracals. 15M and a non-agro'd alt? There's no risk there. Period. CB Dude! Try a bit PvP, You will understand meaning of "no risk there". Dude! I have a 35M skill point combat char! I've done PvP. There is no risk in gate-ganking haulers in empire. Period. CB
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2006.03.02 21:40:00 - [209] Originally by: Gray Carmicheal Originally by: Durvaul Originally by: hired goon Owned. Your an ass, don't rise above yourself nublet Empire should be unsafe to travllers and yes scanning should be agression, u are locking and doing sumthing PVPers in this thread shut up Best post in here, hands down. Sir, your level of intellegence amazes me. Thank you for gracing this already hilarious thread with such an excellent post. And thank you for making me laugh until I wet myself. Just to clarify, we're laughing AT you. Not with you.
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.03.02 21:42:00 - [210] Originally by: MrMorph Ok, heres the solution. [Please insert 1 million isk to my wallet before reading on] CCP: Make a string of 1.1 systems. In these systems the following rules apply: - You cannot have a gun fitted, or you will be unable to enter the system. - You cannot agress in any way, no ew, no nothing. - Haulers will have 9000000 armor hp. - There will be no markets, no research or production facility All OMGIGOTKILLEDCCPBANTHEMNOWIAMLEETANDCANNOTDIE people can roam frely around in their haulers with a tech2 bpo in, without worrying, braging bout their cool load. OMFGJIZUZKTHNXGOSTFUANDTAKEACACKE for gods sake...... that already exists press alt-q, then go talk to yourself in the mirror sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:\|. - Teblin
Gray Carmicheal	Posted - 2006.03.02 21:43:00 - [211] Ah, yes, Thank you Deja. My sig was CONCORDOKKENED. I blame Wrangler H4x.

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